7 losses in 11 Champions League games...

Bastian

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2 losses vs Barca
1 vs PSG
2 playing with 10 men

So it is a bit misleading.

Losses that remain most frustrating are Istanbul and Leipzig, especially first one. If we don't improve our CL record Ole will be sacked and rightfully so.
It's a stat. You can analyse individual games though. For one, it was Ole's bizarre decision not to sub Fred early 1st half, or at HT, that caused us to play against PSG with 10 men.
 

AshRK

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Just looking through those performances and most were awful too. Even that first PSG game we got absolutely battered and only snuck through via goalkeeper errors and a late penalty. It's not like we were unlucky in our losses, we were definitely lucky in our PSG and Leipzig wins.
Genuine question how can one be lucky after winning 5-0. Also the PSG win last year we were by far the better side. Nothing lucky about anything. In fact had martial finished off his chance against PSG at home we probably won't have lost to them.
 

Pearl.Jam

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Man Utd 0 - 2 PSG
PSG 1 - 3 Man Utd
Man Utd 0 - 1 Barcelona
Barcelona 3 - 0 Man Utd


PSG 1 - 2 Man Utd
Man Utd 5 - 0 Leipzig

Istanbul 2 - 1 Man Utd
Man Utd 4 - 1 Istanbul
Man Utd 1 - 3 PSG
Leipzig 3 - 2 Man Utd

Young Boys 2 - 1 Man Utd
and to all those apologists saying it was PSG and Barca so it don’t really count… we’re Man Utd for fooks sake !!
 

PoTMS

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Genuine question how can one be lucky after winning 5-0. Also the PSG win last year we were by far the better side. Nothing lucky about anything.
I'm referring to the PSG game in the knockout stages, a PSG side who by the way had done absolutely nothing in Europe for years. Yeah, the away game in Paris last year, we were better and deservedly won but they were missing quite a few key men, if I recall correctly. The 5-0 win to Leipzig flattered us a lot as well. Leipzig had us by the balls and could've been a few up but then Rashford scored and they capitulated. Another day, they take their chances and we are staring down the barrel. Which is exactly what happened in the reverse match day.
 

r1z3mu

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Not great, not terrible.
I think for $1 billion club it's really terrible. Constantly loosing to average teams in PL and CL indicates that there is a major weak link. People will jump and say it's only one game - no it's not one game. It's pattern (and not good one).
 

BorisManUtd

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Nah, he's not going anywhere. If he fecked up last season in a scenario where it was easier to go through than to go out and then to top it off lost to Villarreal in the consolation cup and still got away with it, then the Glazers don't really care what happens in Europe.
Not sure about that. With Ronaldo, expectations are, and should be, higher. We also brought in Varane, Sancho and some top players, like Pogba and Bruno, won't be staying beyond next summer if there's no some kind of success. Think the pressure from media and fans will be too big for board not to make some decision, even if they are happy with team finishing top 4.

This autumn, imo, is going to be crucial for Ole. There's no excuses, even if we didn't improve in midfield, we should comfortably pass group stages in Champions League and be around top place in the league.
 

MadMike

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Right, so the loss to Istanbul was just inexcusable. Tonight's loss would be unfair to put on Ole 100% (he didn't ask Lingard to make that boneheaded pass). Losses to a star studded PSG 2 years ago... Expected as we were not on that level yet. I'm sure there are some of the 7 losses that should be expected wins but was just looking for more context than "4 out of 11, for Manchester United this is inexcusable" (sounds good but we aren't owed a great CL record)
Tonight’s loss is not 100% on Ole. Arguably it never is, it’s a team sport and he’s not even on the pitch. But like I’ve said in other threads, using Lingard’s individual mistake to excuse him of criticism for tonight’s result is basically nothing but a diversion.

I don’t like the sound of my own voice all that much but I have to quote myself here…
I feel like people are putting too much stock on the individual mistakes and especially Lingard’s to excuse our inept performance in the second half.

We were literally backs against the wall against YB and getting peppered. Young Boys had 8 corners, 19 shots (7 from inside the box) and created 16 chances. We had 1 corner and only 2 shots by comparison. If we had conceded another goal from one of those YB chances in the second half and not from Lingard’s individual mistake on the 95’ it would have been impossible to argue that the result was unfair based on the performance.

Therein lies the problem. Such a collapse because we lost a player against inferior opposition is not really reflecting well on the team and the manager at all.
 
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Revan

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WTF :lol: only one big club would’ve tolerated losing two games away from home in Europe (one in turkey and one when down to 10 men on astroturf) ?

Seriously?
Only one ‘big’ club would keep a manager who has lost 7 out of 11 matches in UCL.
 

Dan_F

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The issue is loss to istanbul and young boys don't make a good look. I am worried we may have another loss to atalanta or Villarreal. We have again put unnecessary pressure on ourselves.
The issue is the Istanbul game. Tonight will only be remembered if we don’t qualify and there is an absolute mile to go yet.

I’d go as far as discounting the four games from the season he took over too. That team was shite and Ole had no right to beat PSG or Barca with it. Especially given he’d been in the job such a short space of time.
 

DRJosh

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Let’s be honest, we’re not winning the champions league this season, not by any stretch of the imagination. A quarter final finish would be wonderful, until Ole gets his act together or if not, until a new manager arrives.

In-game management was never his strength and that doesn’t bode well for cup competitions where the margin for error is very small.

Let’s hope we smash West Ham on Sunday.
 

Siorac

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And one of the PSG defeats was cancelled by the fact we won away and put them out.
If you start cancelling defeats like that, then last season's three wins have to be cancelled too because in the end we failed to get out of the group.
 

AshRK

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I'm referring to the PSG game in the knockout stages, a PSG side who by the way had done absolutely nothing in Europe for years. Yeah, the away game in Paris last year, we were better and deservedly won but they were missing quite a few key men, if I recall correctly. The 5-0 win to Leipzig flattered us a lot as well. Leipzig had us by the balls and could've been a few up but then Rashford scored and they capitulated. Another day, they take their chances and we are staring down the barrel. Which is exactly what happened in the reverse match day.
But then if you are playing ifs and buts. We were unlucky to lose against PSG at home as well. Martial missing the easiest chance and Fred being sent off when Parades was also lucky in the same game to be not sent off. Point is one cannot be termed lucky after winning 5-0. 2-0 maybe but not 5-0.
 

croadyman

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The issue is the Istanbul game. Tonight will only be remembered if we don’t qualify and there is an absolute mile to go yet.

I’d go as far as discounting the four games from the season he took over too. That team was shite and Ole had no right to beat PSG or Barca with it. Especially given he’d been in the job such a short space of time.
He should have been appointing experienced coaches between those two games but nope just promoted the old boys club
 

Diabovermelho

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It's not because of the top teams we faced or because of bad coaching.

There's only one answer and it's football heritage.
 

charlenefan

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Why only include the last 11? I mean if you're including 4 from the 18/19 season why not include those under Mourinho at the start of that campaign as well? And why not take it even further and include those the season before as well? And so on
 

MadMike

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Why only include the last 11? I mean if you're including 4 from the 18/19 season why not include those under Mourinho at the start of that campaign as well? And why not take it even further and include those the season before as well? And so on
Because Ole was not the manager then. We’re talking about Ole’s CL record and he has managed all of 11 CL games so far. Are you feeling well?
 

Siorac

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Why only include the last 11? I mean if you're including 4 from the 18/19 season why not include those under Mourinho at the start of that campaign as well? And why not take it even further and include those the season before as well? And so on
Because we're talking about games under Solskjaer. It would be bizarre to include games under Mourinho.
 

Shane88

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2 losses vs Barca
1 vs PSG
2 playing with 10 men

So it is a bit misleading.

Losses that remain most frustrating are Istanbul and Leipzig, especially first one. If we don't improve our CL record Ole will be sacked and rightfully so.
No it isn't. A comment on Reddit says it better than I can...

It's called the Champions League for a reason.
Solskjaer can't do it against the big teams in the Champions, he can't do it against the middling teams in the Champions League and he can't do it against the lower tier teams in the Champions League.

Conclusion; He is not fit for a Champions League team.
 

charlenefan

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Because Ole was not the manager then. We’re talking about Ole’s CL record and he has managed all of 11 CL games so far. Are you feeling well?
why the insult? Are you incapable of speaking like an adult?

Because we're talking about games under Solskjaer. It would be bizarre to include games under Mourinho.
But it's not bizarre to judge Ole's record in UCL a few weeks into the job halfway into a season with an inherited team including the likes of Valencia, Young, Smalling and Jones for starters? Thanks a perfectly normal thing to judge him on?
 

redshaw

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Good reminder for some how terrible it's been in Europe, not just the performances but the game management. People trying to put a good spin on today's game after the crazy catalogue of subs yet we've had absolutely comical defeats at Istanbul. Ole messed up the PSG match not taking Fred off before he was obviously going to get sent off which then compounded into the Leipzig away match where he put his infamous 3-5 at the back and we're 2-0 down within the opening minutes exposing AWB. Barcelona who have been knocked out by all sorts of teams but we couldn't lay a glove on them, a nothing display.

After the shambles of last years CL, we hope Ole learns yet we saw tonight there's still much to learn, you shouldn't ending up with Lingard in midfield. Ole's post match interview he said he wanted Jesse on becasue of his legs. We drastically needed a structure of defence, midfield and one outlet for attack once AWB was sent off and Ole did everything but that and sunk the game with his last subs.

Ole has done a lot right since coming in for man management and elevating the squad in some areas, I'm actually supportive on the whole but I'm just so disappointed tonight after that shambles of subs, very similar disappointment and anger to how we threw away the group with a poor setup at Leipzig. We might have a good enough squad to see it through this year.
 
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Siorac

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why the insult? Are you incapable of speaking like an adult?



But it's not bizarre to judge Ole's record in UCL a few weeks into the job halfway into a season with an inherited team including the likes of Valencia, Young, Smalling and Jones for starters? Thanks a perfectly normal thing to judge him on?
His CL record will be one of the things he's judged in, yes. That's a perfectly normal thing. So far it's quite poor and it must improve. Failing to qualify from the group twice in a row would be extremely disappointing.
 

BorisManUtd

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No it isn't. A comment on Reddit says it better than I can...



Solskjaer can't do it against the big teams in the Champions, he can't do it against the middling teams in the Champions League and he can't do it against the lower tier teams in the Champions League.

Conclusion; He is not fit for a Champions League team.
It is misleading. Quality of our 2018/19 team was no where near to that Barcelona. PSG and Young Boys with man down, and I remember (I may not be right) us playing great against PSG in that game at Old Trafford, even after going man down we had one or 2 big chances, Cavani missing a sitter or something like that.

As I said, Istanbul and Leipzig were most frustrating ones. If Ole doesn't improve his CL record, he should be gone and that's it.
 

charlenefan

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His CL record will be one of the things he's judged in, yes. That's a perfectly normal thing. So far it's quite poor and it must improve. Failing to qualify from the group twice in a row would be extremely disappointing.
Judge him on last season and this that's fair
 

passing-wind

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Worse than Moyes in this regard.anagee only has himself to blame, have to move on long season ahead.
 

acnumber9

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This stat matters but the unbeaten away stat doesn't, am I right?
Losing games does kind of matter. Not winning them is more of an issue mind you. Drawing two games makes you unbeaten. Winning one and losing one gains you more points.
 

mav_9me

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His CL record will be one of the things he's judged in, yes. That's a perfectly normal thing. So far it's quite poor and it must improve. Failing to qualify from the group twice in a row would be extremely disappointing.
Extremely disappointing is an understatement. If after buying Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo, we cannot get out of a group of Young boys, Atalanta and Villarreal, Ole would deserve the sack.
 

MadMike

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Losing games does kind of matter. Not winning them is more of an issue mind you. Drawing two games makes you unbeaten. Winning one and losing one gains you more points.
In points yes absolutely. But there’s arguably a psychological benefit going on an unbeaten run and setting a record. It makes the team more mentally resilient and more likely to recover from a losing position (something we clearly witnessed) as it strives to maintain its record.

There’s no way to prove it of course but you could argue that without the record and what it signifies, in some of these games the belief in turning it around might have been lacking and they might have ended up as defeats instead.
 

RetroStu

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A bit surprised by some of the replies trying to downplay this. Its an awful record for a club of our supposed size. I mean even if all 11 games were against 2010 Barca it would still be a bit underwhelming.

I'm starting to think rival fans are right, we wont win anything with Ole, and this is easily the best Utd squad since SAF's time and i dont want that fact to be wasted the next few years.
 

Dan_F

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If you start cancelling defeats like that, then last season's three wins have to be cancelled too because in the end we failed to get out of the group.
I’m just adding context to the results, don’t worry I’m not actually cancelling the defeat from his record.

Like it or not, United were definite underdogs in 6 of those 11 games. Let’s see how things pan out after this group is done. I would imagine that ratio will start to look much healthier.
 

acnumber9

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In points yes absolutely. But there’s arguably a psychological benefit going on an unbeaten run and setting a record. It makes the team more mentally resilient and more likely to recover from a losing position (something we clearly witnessed) as it strives to maintain its record.

There’s no way to prove it of course but you could argue that without the record and what it signifies, in some of these games the belief in turning it around might have been lacking and they might have ended up as defeats instead.
There could be a physiological benefit to it. There could also be a feeling of not wanting to push for the win and risk losing too.
 

SAFMUTD

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Well thats a terrible stat, I mean truly awful considering out of those 11 matches 3 were automatic wins (2 against Bashekir and tonights against Young Boys).
 

Majima

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I truly can see us failing to get out of the group again. Quite confident in fact. The belief was that it would be different with Varane, Ronaldo, Sancho but no.

We already had better players all over vs Villarreal in the final, but Emery got the better of Ole, why wouldn't he do it again? Gasperini will likely be doing the same too. If we're folding vs the group wipping boys on GW1, then God help us going to Spain & Italy.
 

hobbers

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If we cant get out of this group with these players there would no longer be any argument to be had about whether Ole is a good enough manager for this club.

There's not a single half decent manager in Europe who would bodge this group up with a squad including Ronaldo, Varane, Maguire, Shaw, De Gea, Bruno and Pogba. Not one. We're paying Ronaldo more than these club's entire wage budgets.

Ole has got it all to prove in these next 5 group games.