To be fair you're probably right, I mean if Messi thought scoring goals against a Mourinho side was easy just wait until he comes up against a Big Sam side.
A less OTT and reactionary piece on our transfers this summer
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
To be fair you're probably right, I mean if Messi thought scoring goals against a Mourinho side was easy just wait until he comes up against a Big Sam side.
I don't really get the big rant here. United will always pay a premium for a player and a valuation will always be higher when that player comes from within the premier league. It's happened time and time again and will continue to do so. It's not like the other continental leagues where teams allow themselves to be bent over by the likes of Bayern, Real and Barca whom cherry pick all the talents for a pittance. United have a great track record when buying within their own league but it's cost them. Rooney, Ferdinand, Carrick, Valencia, Yorke, Sheringham, Cole, Keane. That's off the top of my head. Hopefully Fellaini can be added to that list as he's really not as poor as some of you lot seem to think he is.
There's a big article in the Telegraph on this today if anyone can copy it in here.
Says the transfer strategy this summer was all planned and there's no need to get angry about it.
Says the transfer strategy this summer was all planned and there's no need to get angry about it.
Of course the club are going to brief that out. Its not like they're going to accept they were done over in the transfer market by more experienced and savvier operators. Honestly, I'm not having a bar of it. This idea that we followed Thiago for 3 years and decided he wasn't worth it and followed Herrera for 2 years and decided he was worth £10 million less than Fernandinho is a joke. Henry Winter underlines the fact that Herrera hasn't played for the full Spanish team as if that's some kind of issue e.g. David De Gea.
The club don't think they're getting enough credit for keeping Rooney?
What did they actually have to do on that front besides repeatedly say 'no'? Luis Suarez was even more public about wanting to leave Liverpool than Rooney was about wanting to leave United and it didn't stop the Kopites from signing like 7 players (?) Do the club realise by telling this stuff to journalists they're actually making themselves look even more amateurish and out of their depths? Do they think people will forget trying to get Fabregas for £10 million cheaper than Barcelona paid for him? Do they think people will forget bidding £28 million for Baines and Fellaini and then paying £27.5 for just Fellaini? It would have been better if the club had just said nothing and let the whole thing blow over in its own time.Telegraph piece: Manchester United baffled by criticisms of summer window policy
Manchester United are privately mystified and annoyed at the widespread criticism of their transfer-window dealings.
The champions brought in David Moyes’s No1 target, Marouane Fellaini, and managed to retain the heavyweight services of Wayne Rooney, who had flirted with a move to Chelsea.
Supporters, though, wanted more.
It is understood that Manchester United did not want to be rushed into the wrong signings, or what they considered overpriced signings like Ander Herrera. They expect to be busier in the next two windows, not necessarily January, but certainly next summer.
However frustrating in the short term for fans who understandably want the team strengthened, the club’s long-term commitment to Moyes means they take a more phlegmatic, longer view.
The club now have time to work with Moyes, establishing his targets.
He will be given “patience and money” to build his squad, according to a United source. The champions are actively scouting a left-back, a high-class centre-back and a central midfielder (a process that has been ongoing since 2007).
“This was always going to be a difficult transfer window with a new manager,’’ the United source said, “but the club wouldn’t change anything we did in the transfer window.
"We’ve kept Wayne, our biggest concern. We’ve got a lot of talent in with Fellaini and Guillermo Varela [the Uruguayan full-back]. [Wilfried] Zaha is in the squad and Adnan [Januzaj] has been promoted. No one’s gone out. We’ve got a big squad.”
Big but not heavyweight, argue many supporters.
With Moyes newly arrived, there was an understanding inside Carrington and Old Trafford that he should be given time to examine his squad.
He knew 15 or so of the United players well, having set up Everton to face them over recent seasons, but the club wanted Moyes to get to know the rest of the squad, assessing their potential before making moves in the transfer market.
The champions have been perplexed at claims that they struggled to do deals such as the Herrera saga. The club have been tracking the Athlétic Bilbao midfielder for two years. After discussions at Old Trafford involving Moyes and chief executive Edward Woodward, the club decided on a budget for a 24-year-old who has yet to represent Spain.
An inquiry was made to Bilbao, and a £26 million bid reportedly offered, but it became clear that United would get Herrera only through meeting the buy-out clause of £30.5 million.
“The fee was too much,’’ the United source said. “He’s a very good player but not a top, top player.”
United have huge resources to invest in players, both in transfer fees and salaries, but are determined to run the club as a business and not over-pay. They were particularly frustrated to miss out on Sir Alex Ferguson’s No 1 midfield target, Lucas Moura, in 2012 when the Brazilian went to Paris St-Germain for £40 million, beyond United’s valuation.
Having decided that £30.5 million was above their valuation of Herrera, United ended all interest in the player on Sunday. Contact was made with Athletic Bilbao and the player’s representatives to inform them of United’s decision.
The following day, transfer deadline day, United were bemused when three individuals purporting to represent the club appeared at the Spanish league offices on Monday afternoon looking to get involved in the deal.
“They were like fake sheikhs,” the United source said. “They were nothing to do with us.’’
The so-called “imposters” were actually members of a Bilbao law firm reportedly used by the Spanish club to facilitate paperwork.
On Monday, United received calls from middlemen saying they could get them Herrera. “They were just trying to insert themselves in the deal,” the United source said. “They were trying to get an introduction fee. A lot of people tried to get involved.”
United are still interested in Herrera and are understood to have spoken to his representatives again. “To spend too much at the end of the window is something the club are not going to do,” the source said.
This summer, United turned down well-known attacking midfielders who have ended up at English clubs. The champions were offered Willian, the Anzhi Makhachkala player who ended up at Chelsea but apparently was keen to join United.
The feeling within Carrington was that they had a No 10 in Rooney. Moyes, Woodward and others at the club had worked hard to ensure Rooney stayed, partly because they rate him highly and also because they did not want him leaving to strengthen rivals like Chelsea.
They repeated this mantra of “not for sale” and kept their No 10. The storm of criticism being directed at Moyes and Woodward would have been even stronger had Rooney left for Chelsea.
Four weeks ago, United were also offered Mesut Özil for substantially less than the £42.4 million for which he eventually went to Arsenal on transfer deadline day.
United liked Özil but declined the chance to pursue him again because of this belief in Rooney as their tempo-setting No 10. They also consider Shinji Kagawa an option as a creative force behind Robin van Persie.
Moyes was very interested in working with Leighton Baines again and a bid was put into Everton for
the left-back. It quickly became apparent to United that Everton could not countenance losing two players
in Baines and Fellaini, who was the less embedded.
There is also sensitivity within the club towards their current first-choice left-back, the highly respected vice-captain, Patrice Evra, who has started the season well.
There is still a concern about whether Evra can play 50 games in the season, and a move for Baines in one of the next two transfer windows cannot be discounted.
Of course the club are going to defend what they have done and how they did it, sure what else would we expect? The way things may have happened behind the scenes it could have been all logical and there could have been reason for everything but how it came across in the public domain leaves much to be desired. I fully support Moyes and his team but I have no support whatsoever for Woody, the man knows the commercial end of the business but thats not enough and the club is not his training ground to learn on.
I've got a cat that does that. It goes after something it can't reach and ends up crashing. It then gets up, looks around to see if anyone noticed - gives you that, "I meant to do that," look and walks away.
I've got no problem with the basic premise - we can wait and buy when we're ready.
But any club who tell the world an exec is leaving Oz to do urgent transfer business, or who attempts to get a loan deal for Coentrao closed with three minutes on the clock deserves at least a few bemused looks and a certain amount of "lets all point and laugh" in reaction.
Woodward in job preservation scheme shocker.
I've got no problem with the basic premise - we can wait and buy when we're ready.
But any club who tell the world an exec is leaving Oz to do urgent transfer business, or who attempts to get a loan deal for Coentrao closed with three minutes on the clock deserves at least a few bemused looks and a certain amount of "lets all point and laugh" in reaction.
Woodward in job preservation scheme shocker.
I don't know how many more transfer failures the club will accept before they realise £30 million doesn't get you a "top, top player" any more. What do we value Messi at, £60 million?
If it was all planned for, why did we made a last minute kneejerk bid for Sami Khedira? Was Fellaini actually better than Khedira?
I really do think the club misjudged the Rooney situation if they thought keeping him was the popular decision. Sold him abroad and signed Ozil would have probably been mosts first choice.
Dear god, if that Thiago thing is true then I worry about the future of our scouting system.
I don't think it makes any sense to be true to be honest... a) Do we really think Moyes is that stubborn/daft to not trust 3 years worth of reports, and the word of scouts - whose actual job it is to scout players b) If he was unsure - he'd have plenty of time to watch games/tapes to make up his own mind - which might be an undertaking, but not out of the question and c) why wouldn't he trust the word on Thiago - a player who is renowned over the world for having bags of talent AND plays for Barcelona no less, but is happy to take the word about a lesser known quantity in Herrera?
If it's true, it would be incredibly stupid.
So the Club is briefing journalists all over the place, shows they have been stung by all the criticism. But both articles exclude so many other things Woodward got wrong - the ridiculous low bids for Fabregas and the Everton pair, paying more than they needed to for Fellani, the last minute panic bids for every man and his dog, building up fans expectations etc etc etc. Woodward can brief all he wants - he's blown it. You only get one chance to make a good first impression and his will never recover as far as the fans and the football world is concerned.
Let me see if I understand the article correctly:
- Thiago didn't snub you. Moyes hadn't seen him play much, only the scouts had. For three years.
- Herrara wasn't a mess. Moyes Just only valued him at 20m. Based on two years of scouting. And hadn't really seen him play much.
- Kagawa isn't being frozen out. Moyes just hasn't seen him play.
- Despite not really having seen Kagawa play, Moyes decided against Ozil because he already had Kagawa to consider.
- The lawyers were imposters for sure.
- Not wanting to overrule Moyes, United promised to keep the squad together except for Bebe. And Bebe is still here.
- Fellaini only came so late because it took a long time to figure out Fabregas wasn't interested.
- Keeping Rooney took up 50% of the staff resources that would have gone into signing new players (LOLWUT).
Bebe is out on loan... but yeah, loads of that article just doesn't make any sense. 50% of staff resources?! What the feck we're they doing? Stroking his balls?
This. What else did we expect the club to say. And I bet you nothing official will come from the club, only this indirect through Journos as Moyes will most likely rebuff any questions on this.
Whilst some of the things make sense, some don't. For example, it turns out Fellaini WAS indeed Moyes' number 1 target. Well, if that was the case then why did we wait for the clause to expire? Whether Fellaini didn't take his cut doesn't matter as we will still pay 27.5m. Plus had we done that we could've gotten him in for very important matches. Makes no sense whatsoever.
Also, to say we didn't want to go for Alcantara because Moyes didn't want to go on what SAF had been scouting is hogwash since we went for Herrera who was also obviously not a player Moyes scouted.
Too many little things in that 'statement' doesn't make sense. They should rather have shut up and waited until Jan/next summer and showed everyone the club is doing just fine.
So, judging by that piece, the club think we have done alright in the window. That is more worrying than the window itself. I hope this is more of a face saving exercise than them genuinely believing that we went about this summer's business in the correct way.
People are really over-reacting about all of this. We have added a very good midfielder and a potentially very good winger to a title-winning squad this summer.
What we will have learned from this is not to make anything public in future windows, because there is a long list of very, very impressive players that United have failed to sign over the last decade, yet very little is made of it because we tend to only find out some time after the event.
I find it interesting how little has been made of other similar examples this summer, for instance Mourinho's failed attempt to sign Rooney, Spurs being led a merry dance by Willian, and many others. None of these are in any way embarrassing for those clubs, it happens, yet United are making headlines.
This summer has shown me two things: the club need to close the doors again in regards to what they put out in public (denying fans the transfer info that they crave), and Moyes is going to have an even tougher time winning over the media and the United fans than we thought he would when he took the job.
What we will have learned from this is not to make anything public in future windows, because there is a long list of very, very impressive players that United have failed to sign over the last decade, yet very little is made of it because we tend to only find out some time after the event.
I find it interesting how little has been made of other similar examples this summer, for instance Mourinho's failed attempt to sign Rooney, Spurs being led a merry dance by Willian, and many others. None of these are in any way embarrassing for those clubs, it happens, yet United are making headlines.
This summer has shown me two things: the club need to close the doors again in regards to what they put out in public (denying fans the transfer info that they crave), and Moyes is going to have an even tougher time winning over the media and the United fans than we thought he would when he took the job.
They should have got rid of Rooney and got in Ozil. Rooney is good on his day but inconsistent, a troubled man and a classless prick. Who's to say he wont start edging for a move next season? I can already imagine it as he has done it twice already. Ozil is a much younger and much better player. It baffles me. Having said that, maybe if a team outside the EPL came in for him, it might have been a different story but no one really showed any firm interest I'm guessing.
Personally I dont think that behind the scenes the club think we have done alright at all, I think they are just trying to save face, damage limitation and all that. Its clear that Fellaini was not the number 1 target for Moyes this summer, I dont know why the club is claiming he is. We courted Fellaini a bit to show an interest in the player early on, if we wanted we could have tied the deal up early in the window but we went after other higher profile players such as Cesc and Thiago and when we got rebuffed on those fronts we made a panic buy to bring someone in. If Fellaini was the number 1 transfer target why did we risk leaving it so late into the transfer window to seal the deal up?
I dont buy into United being completely clueless as to these "imposters", maybe the club did not know much about them but I think they were more aware of the situation than they are claiming. We need to go back to the closed door policy when it comes to transfers, it was far too public and out in the open this summer and it helped nobody, not the clubs, the fans or the players involved.
Because
- Mourinho signed Eto'o quickly once he saw he can't get Rooney. We persisted with Cesc and took ages to find a secondary target
- Spurs signed a huge number of good players so not sure how them not signing Willian impacts how good their window was. i thinkg they were excellent with their business
- What many others?
Moyes having a tougher time is all but the fault of how we as a club behaved. What's the point of both Moyes and Woodwood saying we've dosh to burn at the start of the window and things about 'Class players' etc and then we don't follow through on that? Especially when it seems we were haggling over a million quid here and there? Our last minute desperation to sign Coentrao on LOAN of all things speaks volumes of just what a window we've had.
I don't believe that Coentrao story at all.
Don't be fecking stupid. Alex Ferguson doesn't manage us any more, so what he thinks doesn't really matter much at all.
£20? We really are tight.
Good shout.
Moyes first choice was Fabregas, therefore Thiago was probalbly always seen as backup if we did not get Fabregas. It just so happens that by the time we stopped putting silly offers in for a player that did not want to sign for us that our backup had already moved to Bayern to play for a manager that he trusted would develop him better as a player.
I don't blame Moyes for this summers transfer dealings. He likes to do his homework on his transfer targets, added with the fact that the guy replacing gill was a bit like a fish out of water. United will make up for their mistakes in the January window
I don't blame Moyes for this summers transfer dealings. He likes to do his homework on his transfer targets, added with the fact that the guy replacing gill was a bit like a fish out of water. United will make up for their mistakes in the January window
Agree with this. Moyes and Woodward clearly tried to give fans more access and information as a way to ingratiate themselves, but its all just been used as a stick to beat them with. Now we know why Sir Alex never spoke on transfers until it was done, the way a lot of fans have been this last month or so even Sir Alex would have been under pressure for his job
The club's trying to save face after a shit summer. Nothing to see here, really. Except that the piece paints Moyes in a less than flattering light.
United didn't go in for Thiago. That's been confirmed, no?
The only strange thing about our business is the clarity of the Fellaini deal and why we didn't sort that earlier in my opinion. For those harping on about scouting don't forget the staff overhaul we have had over the summer
I think those moaning will be very surprised by our business from here on in after things have settled at the club.
The only strange thing about our business is the clarity of the Fellaini deal and why we didn't sort that earlier in my opinion. For those harping on about scouting don't forget the staff overhaul we have had over the summer
I think those moaning will be very surprised by our business from here on in after things have settled at the club.
Re: Fellaini - I suspect that the club were always focusing on a double-deal with Baines included, and probably thought that Everton would be blinded by the sight of the £35m in front of their eyes.
Moyes was always excellent in the transfer market at Everton. We should all be confident that he is a safe bet to identify future players.
So Coentrao was in tears at his move falling through?
Yeah, apparently sat up with Nani and Ronaldo who were both gutted themselves according to the Portuguese press
Lol can just see the wailing and gnashing of teeth and rosary beads out. Stupid fckin papers
Has there actually been any confirmation of the release clause? I doubt it existed at all, the media always sprout this shit. Everton were just playing hardball until Fellaini put in the transfer request and they grabbed McCarthy and Barry so could release him
Try telling that to Everton fans. You'd be surprised.
To be fair to Moyes, he had to work with a tiny budget. I'll wait until next summer to really judge him on the transfer market.
Kin ell. We've gone from one extreme to the other now.
Yep. Moyes has been hung out to dry here whatever way you look at it.
Yep. Moyes has been hung out to dry here whatever way you look at it.
Good post. You explain your reasoning really well. What i was getting at is that if United really wanted Herrera, like Bayern with Martinez, they would have paid the clause. They didn't which leads me to believe they will retreat and look at other targets in the next window, or keep an eye on his situation.
Like the info from Joel Cantona aswell.....Zidane at United would have been immense. Zidane and Cantona!!
Then m
Seriosuly, if they think bidding 30m for fabregas would buy them some credential.... thats worrying, considering how much pkayers are valued these days, even we laugh at 30m for rooney
Then maybe they should be smart enough not to play their cards on everything and ended up looking like an idiot
Seriosuly, if they think bidding 30m for fabregas would buy them some credential.... thats worrying, considering how much pkayers are valued these days, even we laugh at 30m for rooney