A New Captain

OohAahMartial

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One thing we lack which can lift the whole team is a Captain. Rooney may well be a great off-field Captain in the dressing room but he's not been able to lift the team, demand high standards (partly because his own have been so low in recent years generally), and spends too much of his energy whinging to the ref instead of cajoling his team-mates. He is also presumably on his way out sooner rather than later.
Carrick showed in our last game that he cant steady a panicking team and is on his last legs. Valencia may sometimes lead by example but is not the most communicative. Smalling may not even be first choice CB next year and can't even organise his defense. Zlatan won't be here long enough. Pogba panics and is erratic. Herrera also loses his head gives away needless free kicks or goes missing. Mata leads by example but again not a communicator. Admittedly I was spoiled growing up with Robson, Keane and Ince, all very communicative, high standard demanding and consistent performers in Central Midfield which is the perfect position for a Captain.
In short I think we need to buy a Captain in. So the question is who can we ideally get and who can we realistically get and when?
 
We have 2 natural leaders there in BFS and Ibra, however both are coming to the end of their time here. Of the current roster, I like Herrera in terms of performance and he seems to be vocal. Not on the levels of Keane and Robson though
 
Why not give it to a Spanish central midfielder who communicates all game long, demands a lot of himself and his teammates, conducts himself impeccably off the pitch, speaks well in interviews and seems to play every game under the current boss?
 
This squad does deserve Fellaini as captain
 
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Last season, you'd have thought Smalling would be the long term captain, but he looks likelier to be sold in the summer now.
 
It seems silly to buy a player to be a captain. That is usually a role you earn after years of service with the club.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
It seems silly to buy a player to be a captain. That is usually a role you earn after years of service with the club.
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Agree. we've had such player turn over though no one stands out.

Herrera is the best of a bad bunch, after rooney and carrick, but no reason to change anything at present. weird anti rooney thread off the back of him not being involved in a match...
 
nokillingmoths said:
Agree. we've had such player turn over though no one stands out.

Herrera is the best of a bad bunch, after rooney and carrick, but no reason to change anything at present. weird anti rooney thread off the back of him not being involved in a match...
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And it seems more of the "we need another Roy Keane" type threads we have been getting for a long time on here. Even though we had a lot of success in Ferguson's last years without a Roy Keane. Through injuries and what not the likes of Gary Neville, Giggs, Rio, Vidic, Evra shared the captain's armband and none of them came across as the stereotypical fiery leader. And look at Bayern's treble team and Germany's World Cup winning squad who were lead by the likes of Lahm and Schweini.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
And it seems more of the "we need another Roy Keane" type threads we have been getting for a long time on here. Even though we had a lot of success in Ferguson's last years without a Roy Keane. Through injuries and what not the likes of Gary Neville, Giggs, Rio, Vidic, Evra shared the captain's armband and none of them came across as the stereotypical fiery leader. And look at Bayern's treble team and Germany's World Cup winning squad who were lead by the likes of Lahm and Schweini.
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All senior players who comanded respect through ability and performances. The rest of their squads (rightly) would have looked to them for leadership. we don't have those typws of players at present sadly.
 
Surely the stand out captain to be should be Pogba.

Plays centrally, an imposing prescence, young, will be a permanent fixture in team, knows the DNA of the club and it's demands, good on field discipline, doesn't appear any off field negativity and on a 5 year deal and bags of time to grow into the role

Others mentioned like Herrera and Smalling don't appear trustworthy in terms of nailing down a place in the team. Although no player should ever be guaranteed a start I do think any prospective captain has to be as near as certain starter as you can be.
 
What we need is quality first rather than who shouts more.

We might as well sign Kevin Nolan if it's the latter we are looking for.
 
IMO, a captain isn't really an important thing. It automatically goes to the best/most influencial (in terms of performance) player on your team. They just lead by example and shout when you don't play to their standards; which you should really be doing anyway. I think they have very little impact on the team. Gerrard still would have been Gerrard, Viera Viera and Keane, Keane. The armband is just a symbol.
 
Lash said:
IMO, a captain isn't really an important thing. It automatically goes to the best/most influencial (in terms of performance) player on your team. They just lead by example and shout when you don't play to their standards; which you should really be doing anyway. I think they have very little impact on the team. Gerrard still would have been Gerrard, Viera Viera and Keane, Keane. The armband is just a symbol.
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Would disagree. Genuine Captains are very rare. Our team could really do with a real leader. Rooney is our 'isn't really important Captain'. He's not a real leader, more a best player in the team, so let's give it to them as no outstanding candidates.
As for Keane being Keane, he improved as a player and inspired those around him.
 
I don't think the captain's armband really means anything. The captain gets a bit of special dispensation when talking to referees on the pitch. They seem to be able to give it back a bit more before they get booked for dissent. Apart from that, leaders on the pitch are still going to lead, armband or not. It tends to go to your best player, your most senior player, or the player who has been at that particular club the longest.

Under LvG it meant something. It meant that he always plays. Under Mourinho at least, it doesn't seem important.
 
To be honest, I think we should give the captaincy to Mata. Seems like a positive influence on the team and has done well when given the armband in the past.
 
Giving someone like Pogba captaincy might force him to mature and take even more responsibility. I wouldn't mind seeing him have it, or even Herrera.

Other than that, we are scraping the barrel and might have to give it to a new signing.
 
herrera, the most consistent, fittest and hungriest player, with high level performances, we have maybe apart Valencia who is way too calm tho, so Herrera fits the bill.. also quite injury free, knock knock, would help him to stay on the pitch with the arm band, can talk with referee etc..
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I don't think a new captain would affect much at all.

What we need is to capitalise on our dominance in games.
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Exactly this.

We place far too much importance on the captaincy role in this country anyway.
 
Red_toad said:
Would disagree. Genuine Captains are very rare. Our team could really do with a real leader. Rooney is our 'isn't really important Captain'. He's not a real leader, more a best player in the team, so let's give it to them as no outstanding candidates.
As for Keane being Keane, he improved as a player and inspired those around him.
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I think your linking Rooney not being very good and our captain and jumping to the fact a captain therefore must be important. "Genuine captains" are just vocal, very good players in their respective teams. Like Ronaldo, why would someone put Ronaldo as captain for Portugal?

Again, Keane didn't get better because he was given the armband, he was always going to improve as he had that attitude. Again, the famous example of the Juve semi-final, was just his performance on the pitch. If he didn't have the armband, he'd of still done it, we all still would of been inspired. I think people just want to join up dots.
 
Some teams pick their best players as captains (Ronaldo, Messi) as they can lead by their high-quality performances. However in some teams' dynamics it works better with someone who's perhaps more vocal, plays harder etc. Based on my experience captains can be really influential but other players in that team can be the ones who shout, demand and kick others to better performances. So imo it's a bit dumb to say captains don't matter and at the same time in some teams the role of the captain is not as important. In the current United team it feels that at the moment we really need those players who drive the team forward, even with all the experience, we seem a bit fragile.
 
I thought it obvious with our teams mentality issues that a new Captain was necessity so I am slightly amazed that no one has actually answered the question given of who we could buy.

Some are even saying that a Captain is unimportant - I can only presume these are new fans who never watched Robson, Keane and Ince. Or Schmeichel for that matter. Keane was like having SAF on the pitch, verbally demanding high standards from those around him, knowing when to change tempo to calm a team through keep ball, or fire it up with drive and tackles. If Captains weren't important you would simply not have them - I can only assume this has occured due to watching ineffectual Captain performances too much,

Herrera might look a good option but this last game showed he really isn't. The team needed someone to get the team calming down and playing keep ball to steady the nerves, and a rollicking or geeing up of those who were being sloppy in passing.
 
top1whoisman said:
Some teams pick their best players as captains (Ronaldo, Messi) as they can lead by their high-quality performances. However in some teams' dynamics it works better with someone who's perhaps more vocal, plays harder etc. Based on my experience captains can be really influential but other players in that team can be the ones who shout, demand and kick others to better performances. So imo it's a bit dumb to say captains don't matter and at the same time in some teams the role of the captain is not as important. In the current United team it feels that at the moment we really need those players who drive the team forward, even with all the experience, we seem a bit fragile.
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Ronaldo's pitch side antics in the Euro final, after trying his best to play despite injury, was awesome leadership, and imo a key reason why they became Champions. Instead of his team being discouraged at losing their star player, they played with his determination and desire.
 
OohAahMartial said:
Ronaldo's pitch side antics in the Euro final, after trying his best to play despite injury, was awesome leadership, and imo a key reason why they became Champions. Instead of his team being discouraged at losing their star player, they played with his determination and desire.
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It was surprising to see, and yes, I’m sure it was inspiring. However in general, I wouldn’t class Ronnie with the most vocal type of leaders. And there’s nothing wrong with that. In my youth team our best player was the captain, he was actually pretty shy and far from the most ”influential, vocal” ones, but his quality on the pitch was unquestionable.
 
OohAahMartial said:
Ronaldo's pitch side antics in the Euro final, after trying his best to play despite injury, was awesome leadership, and imo a key reason why they became Champions. Instead of his team being discouraged at losing their star player, they played with his determination and desire.
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Exactly this ^^^. The amount of people Ive heard and read moaning about Ronaldo in the final on the touchline is ridiculous.

Anyway either Herrera or Pogba of the current squad. I have no issue with Mata being captain either but can see Herrera/Pogba being the more natural fit, for fecks sake you never see Mata crowding the ref to make a decision, you would have thought he would have picked up that carry on from his time at Chelsea :lol:
 
Maybe we should give the armband to Tony (Valencia of course!).

He has been around for quite a long time now, has shown good performances + the will & pride to be a United player and has already gained loads of experience as a leader for Ecuador.

The only issue I could see may be the communication problem, however, I really cannot assume that he is still not able to speak English properly after all those years in UK/Europe.

So this could be worth a shot and we tried so in the past. Maybe we just need to encourage Tony to speak out loud more often ON the pitch as he has it all to be an United captain IMO.
 
Buying a player purely to be captain would be stupid, there are plenty of leaders in the squad from what the players say and they're the ones who know better than us. At the minute there is no need to take it off Rooney, all the players seem to like him as captain so I see no point in changing it. There's a lot of things that need to be improved at United, but I don't see the captain as one of them.
 
dogwithabone said:
Surely the stand out captain to be should be Pogba.

Plays centrally, an imposing presence, young, will be a permanent fixture in team, knows the DNA of the club and it's demands, good on field discipline, doesn't appear any off field negativity and on a 5 year deal and bags of time to grow into the role.
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As easy as the above. Pogba is captain material. A central player that can effectively affect both the attack and defence. A communicator, confident, looks very outgoing and has the right pinch of aggression in him. Mourinho will obviously build around him hence as time goes by we should expect his influence on our game to get bigger. It's a no brainer really.

My only problem with him at the moment is his influence during very important games. I've never seen him stand out in finals or any big games. A great captain usually stands out. Could be his age and hopefully as he gets older, this will change.
 
Chuckazulu said:
As easy as the above. Pogba is captain material. A central player that can effectively affect both the attack and defence. A communicator, confident, looks very outgoing and has the right pinch of aggression in him. Mourinho will obviously build around him hence as time goes by we should expect his influence on our game to get bigger. It's a no brainer really.

My only problem with him at the moment is his influence during very important games. I've never seen him stand out in finals or any big games. A great captain usually stands out. Could be his age and hopefully as he gets older, this will change.
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He was the one who needed a Captain to help get him in the right frame of mind! He's not ready for being a Captain yet.
 
I actually thought that LVG bought Schweinsteiger to be his on field Captain in effect if not in name, though it seems his off field behaviour led to him being rejected. In some ways I think Zlatan was brought in for similar reasons.

Bringing through an Academy Captain like Gomes is another option, but that's years down the line.
 
DDG seems like another option to Herrera. Regardless, we definitely need someone out on the pitch who can sense when we are not playing well and start rallying the troops. The whole team currently looks lost in the last 20 minutes and if you couldn't see a captains armband, you wouldn't know who was captain on the pitch. I think the Captains role in the current climate of conceding late goals is vital if we are going to stop the rot.
 
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