Peak Rooney is one of the best forwards of the last 20 years and Mbappe is one of the most talented young players I’ve ever seen, just because Rashford isn’t of that level doesn’t make him a failure and it doesn’t mean he can’t be an excellent player for us.
A Rashford Reminder!
- Thread starter Eoin McMahon
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Rashford's now trying to make the next step as a leader. His problems are more mental now than physical. Yes, he still dribbles into blind alleys and trods on the ball, but the last month or two you can see his frustrations bubbling over as he tries to do too much. This is part of learning what it takes to be the main man. He may fail, he may just be a 12 goals a season forward. But it's not like this team is very impressive with him in the squad or out of it. It's time to see where the cards fall.
Yeah I agree. To be completely honest with you, I think I see things a little bit differently. But obviously there's no harm in having differing views and opinions. Truth be told, I don't think we should have been handing out such massive contracts to players yet to prove themselves or "develop". I agree that your wages has nothing to do with the speed of your development, but wages "should" determine the level of expectation of your output. Obviously there'd be a couple of outliers, but we're renowned to have a bloated squad, on massive wages on a below average return.
So it's normal that the attention will turn to the star performers and the big earners when things aren't going too well. Like I said, it's not totally fair on the players (Rashford), but it is a product of the current state we're in.
Poor Rashy's on 250k a week but we should only expect him to be youngster good despite the fact most players much better than him in the PL are on less, some substantially less.
Honestly I've never really seen the big deal . He came in and started with a flyer but a high percentage of the time he looks lost on the ball and has seemingly not much control over his own legs when dribbling half the time. He makes some good runs off the ball but doesn't seem to have the skills to do much with that. I just don't think he's good enough for a club of this size and I don't think he ever will be.
The players are there to win games and supporters are there to cheer them on and motivate them into performing their best. Most supporters who seize every opportunity to ridicule and degrade both players and staff alike - are shit at their job. Way more so than the players and the staff they're mouthing off. They'd be wise to ask themselves "Am I really the kind of supporter anyone in their right mind would want to impress?"
If I was a player and reading a lot of the comments across football forums - thinking all these morons spewing out their poison were representative of the average supporter (luckilly in my experience they're not) - I'd probably figure "Feck these clowns!" then turn moneygrabbing carefree mercenary in a heartbeat. They're not a crowd I'd care to impress - to put it mildly.
There's a reason these fans are referred to as "plastic" - it's because these kinds of supporters are fake. They only have your back when things are going well - the moment you find yourself in a hole and in actual need of support - they'll stick a knife in it no matter how much effort you've put into your game or how much you've achieved representing their club.
Manchester United has been in a hole ever since Sir Alex left us - the state we were in when Mourinho left being the worst I've witnessed since the eighties. It's been decades since our team relied as much on their supporters inspiring them as they do at present. It's easy to be a good supporter when your team is dominating the field - it's when things are looking bad one's grit gets tested. A lot of our fanbase are failing in that department these days - acting like spineless turncoats trashing their own representatives - and it's kind of ironic reading their comments where they're dismissive of our players and staff describing them as "deadwood" and "clueless" or whatnot that they don't realize that they themselves are causing this club way more harm than anyone they're criticising could ever dream of.
Because when fans act like that creating a negative buzz surrounding the team they're supposed to support - they're harming that team. In fact I'd go so far as to say they're doing our rivals' job for them - undermining the very institution they're supposed to promote. I would demand my players to stay clear of social medias if I was in charge - both to keep them focused on their performance rather than their image but also because reading a lot of the shite being tossed around on the internet these days can unnerve anyone. A lot of it is bullying - plain and simple - and yeah as a professional you should be above such but in the end we're all just humans and anyone will find it easier to perform in front of an enthused crowd than a hostile one.
As for Rashford - considering his age he's a very skilled player - creating both space and chances for his teammates as well as getting into the right spots himself. In fact he's improved on this since last season (our entire attack has). Still immature and lacking some resolve - but to dismiss him as someone incapable of fulfilling his potential at this point is just stupid. All he needs is to work on his finishing, confidence and vision - hitting the target plus keeping a cool head in and around the box - and he's got every chance to become one of the top contributors not just within this club but within the league if he manages just that.
If I was a player and reading a lot of the comments across football forums - thinking all these morons spewing out their poison were representative of the average supporter (luckilly in my experience they're not) - I'd probably figure "Feck these clowns!" then turn moneygrabbing carefree mercenary in a heartbeat. They're not a crowd I'd care to impress - to put it mildly.
There's a reason these fans are referred to as "plastic" - it's because these kinds of supporters are fake. They only have your back when things are going well - the moment you find yourself in a hole and in actual need of support - they'll stick a knife in it no matter how much effort you've put into your game or how much you've achieved representing their club.
Manchester United has been in a hole ever since Sir Alex left us - the state we were in when Mourinho left being the worst I've witnessed since the eighties. It's been decades since our team relied as much on their supporters inspiring them as they do at present. It's easy to be a good supporter when your team is dominating the field - it's when things are looking bad one's grit gets tested. A lot of our fanbase are failing in that department these days - acting like spineless turncoats trashing their own representatives - and it's kind of ironic reading their comments where they're dismissive of our players and staff describing them as "deadwood" and "clueless" or whatnot that they don't realize that they themselves are causing this club way more harm than anyone they're criticising could ever dream of.
Because when fans act like that creating a negative buzz surrounding the team they're supposed to support - they're harming that team. In fact I'd go so far as to say they're doing our rivals' job for them - undermining the very institution they're supposed to promote. I would demand my players to stay clear of social medias if I was in charge - both to keep them focused on their performance rather than their image but also because reading a lot of the shite being tossed around on the internet these days can unnerve anyone. A lot of it is bullying - plain and simple - and yeah as a professional you should be above such but in the end we're all just humans and anyone will find it easier to perform in front of an enthused crowd than a hostile one.
As for Rashford - considering his age he's a very skilled player - creating both space and chances for his teammates as well as getting into the right spots himself. In fact he's improved on this since last season (our entire attack has). Still immature and lacking some resolve - but to dismiss him as someone incapable of fulfilling his potential at this point is just stupid. All he needs is to work on his finishing, confidence and vision - hitting the target plus keeping a cool head in and around the box - and he's got every chance to become one of the top contributors not just within this club but within the league if he manages just that.
Seems like his age, fans, teammates, and managers are reasons he's becoming average player over the years. He's just a victim. He bleeds red though (while asked 200k/wk to stay).
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Its mad isnt it. 100% a symptom of the mismanagement of transfers and squad over the last 5 years. No clear direction.
He’s a “wide forward”.
Tbf when he takes them properly he's not too bad. Think he scored a few from in and around the box, was unlucky with the one that hit the bar.
It's when he tries to knuckleball it from 30 yards where he is hopeless. Needs to just go back to the basics.
Sadly the way he’s been playing recently, he’ll end up closer to Welbeck than Mbappe.
If he only had a bit of humility on the pitch, he’d be right up there with Sancho.
If he only had a bit of humility on the pitch, he’d be right up there with Sancho.
He's a good player. We will likely see the best of him when he can develop an understanding with the likes of Martial and Greenwood and when we actually have a functional midfield. No quick fixes unfortunately.
Alright - Lets give you 250k a week. We now expect you to be Messi because you have a high salary. And then we'll be pissed afterwards when you're only among the best in your generation and work hard
After all its what we pay that determines how good a player is currently, right?!Great post and exactly my sentiments too
Same can be applied to Ole. I don't give two shits whether he's a club legend or he gets the "United Way" *cringe*, as long as he gets the tactics and man management right.
But unfortunately, some people on here have different standards. Dismissing a 21 year old's potential vs allowing Ole more time to play more disappointing football.
When players feck it up often by not passing or doing crazy things the manager has a go. If he continues to disobey and keep doing those things then the manager drops him.
It looks like that Ole is indulging him and letting him do whatever he wants.
All this Rashy business has to stop. I remember a story about Lee Sharpe and Alex Ferguson. Sharpe met him one night and said hello Alex. Fergie told him off by saying that he is not his friend and it's Mr. Ferguson.
It looks like that Ole is indulging him and letting him do whatever he wants.
All this Rashy business has to stop. I remember a story about Lee Sharpe and Alex Ferguson. Sharpe met him one night and said hello Alex. Fergie told him off by saying that he is not his friend and it's Mr. Ferguson.
That there is an expectation that a 21 year old should be performing every week when 90% of players that age are inconsistent. Mbappé is a one off. You just know the board and manager have looked at the situation and just assumed we could repeat what happened in 2006 when Ferguson trusted Ronaldo and Rooney. Martial and Rashford just aren’t in the same calibre of player to those two.
And as for his wages all players earn stupid money these days. What about Hudson-Odoi’s Contract when he’s played about 10 minutes of football. Unfortunately that’s how football has become.
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We are a superclub and superclubs do not rely on youngsters with potential to lead their attack. They buy the best available attacker in the world and monitor the youngsters to see if they fulfill their potential. Football is not a feel good movie, where the local lad comes good, the reality is that in most cases success today is bought and to be honest we basically we have a history of buying up the best players in the prem to help us win our titles eg Rio, Cole, Keane, Cantona, Carrick etc. They left less prestigious teams to come to a superclub.
I do not think that Rashford would be a starter in any other superclub in the world yet many here want us to be patient hoping that he would come good.
I do not think that Rashford would be a starter in any other superclub in the world yet many here want us to be patient hoping that he would come good.
what the feck is wrong with you, you need serious help.
Local lad team reservations. Where have I seen this before.
A local lad, who used to fall over in box, miss sitters, and still be called a striker at Manchester United. Now plays for Watford.
A local lad, who used to fall over in box, miss sitters, and still be called a striker at Manchester United. Now plays for Watford.
Agreed.
Yup. And now we have a local lad, living the dream, loves the club who leaves the ball behind him when dribbling, looks down when running with the ball, runs it straight into defenders or out of play, can't finish, no holdup and poor heading technique not only being called a striker, but being paid a fortune at United.
It seems like his key attribute is being 21. Other players younger than him or of comparable age like Sancho and Greenwood may have miles better technical skills and game IQ, you don't need to imagine potential with them. Their quality is evident even if (in the case of Greenwood) they may not be ready for the main stage. Comparing Rooney or Ronaldo at the same age is ludicrous. Their skill and capability was obvious at the same age, irrespective of stats etc. Rashford looks barely better than Welbeck technique wise (better shot though)
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If you say anything negative your a plastic fan? Every player, every commentator, every supporter has said negative things. What sort if person goes around cheering road accidents? A mental person thats who. Its not negative if its how you see it. If you see a house burn down and you say ‘oh that idiot left the gas on and burnt his family down’ is that being negative? Thats the whole point of being a fan. To watch and give your opinion. Pros and cons.
Rashford has been dire and has yet failed to live up to his potential. Thats not negative, thats a fact. At the very least its an opinion and it does not make you fake it makes you normal.
You think all coaches and managers etc go around praising players no matter how they play so as they play better? No. They form an opinion and give it to them straight. You played sht. Sure there is praise as well but you cant just dismiss anything ‘negative’. Thats mental and weird
He wouldn’t be able to deliver but he’d Expect criticism. Rightly so.Alright - Lets give you 250k a week. We now expect you to be Messi because you have a high salary. And then we'll be pissed afterwards when you're only among the best in your generation and work hard
No one is expecting Messi level performances too. Poor example.
Was you satisfied with Sánchez stinking the place out with his performances?
Not all of us have changed opinions regarding him though, that's the thing. I never understood the hype since his first few goals. He kept scoring and proved me wrong.
In fact, I didn't think he would still be at the club but he is. Now I hope he keeps proving me wrong but my concerns regarding how limited he seemed to me from the start is starting to show. Decent squad player potential, maybe starting here and there but nothing more.
The fact that he's a local lad living his dream is exactly what makes those of us who don't rate him suspicious of the hype he gets.
In fact, I didn't think he would still be at the club but he is. Now I hope he keeps proving me wrong but my concerns regarding how limited he seemed to me from the start is starting to show. Decent squad player potential, maybe starting here and there but nothing more.
The fact that he's a local lad living his dream is exactly what makes those of us who don't rate him suspicious of the hype he gets.
And he got shat on would he complain and say gimme a break guys I'm a local lad? Point is this is Man United. Not time for sympathizing with millionares.Alright - Lets give you 250k a week. We now expect you to be Messi because you have a high salary. And then we'll be pissed afterwards when you're only among the best in your generation and work hard
Are you bloody serious? Has our fanbase become a bunch of self-righteous virtue-signallers that cannot think for themselves?Alright - Lets give you 250k a week. We now expect you to be Messi because you have a high salary. And then we'll be pissed afterwards when you're only among the best in your generation and work hard
Rashford and his agent were pushing for the big money and striker role in the summer. Playing this position at Manchester fecking United comes with certain expectations and responsibility. If, for example, someone like Sanchez and Lukaku were stealing a living like our dear Rashy, they'd (rightly) be slated and the fans would want them out.
Apparently, being a 'local lad' and 'youth' allows you unlimited shit performances that cost us points and deny our fans the opportunity to watch CL football year after year while paying stupid money to subsidise a superstar lifestyle.
On your personal attack, if I'm getting the big bucks, I'd expect pressure week in, week out. I would expect criticism and huge expectations and I'd do my very best to perform. Most importantly, I won't hide behind some passive aggressive bollocks about haters on social media and how they have a vision and some fans are just too stupid to understand this grand master plan.
Yeh. I don't realize so many fans seems like never work in professional world.
Some very harsh words on Rashford. He is 21 where was Harry Kane at 21. Rashford not entered his peak yet and is still learning the game.
Also it's not like he is in a settled side where we have a style of play defined. He entering his 5th season and already on his 3rd manager. Utd have failed his development not Rashford. Give the boy time and I think he will be a good player
Also it's not like he is in a settled side where we have a style of play defined. He entering his 5th season and already on his 3rd manager. Utd have failed his development not Rashford. Give the boy time and I think he will be a good player
He's being paid like a star player and that's the expectations his performance should be held at.
Want to get cut some slack, don't fecking ask for a fortune for your contract.
Want to get cut some slack, don't fecking ask for a fortune for your contract.
It's mental how people are portraying Rashford as a victim when he brought all this upon himself by demanding for that much. If you're demanding to be paid like one of the best players in the world, your performances better match up to it.Alright - Lets give you 250k a week. We now expect you to be Messi because you have a high salary. And then we'll be pissed afterwards when you're only among the best in your generation and work hard
There'll be less criticism on him if he's paid what he's actually worth because we all know the team is fecked up. Right now, he's one of the biggest problem because he's being overpaid massively despite not being anywhere near the level his play deserves. He's lucky to even deserve 50k/week if we're being honest.
Oh give me a break. I cannot believe people still spout the local lad/passion/desire/loves the club platitudes as if it means anything.
Yea he is 21, and maybe it is harsh to expect him to be the finished article but the fact of the matter is he has played 170+ games for the first team and is now in his 5th season. He has been handed a mega contract and rightly or wrongly Ole has indulged him from day one and sold off any competition for his position in the summer to thrust him into the main role.
I don't care if he's young, I don't care if he's from the academy, neither of those things should give him a free ride. He has been made the main man the Manchester United attack and he should be expected to perform as one.
Yea he is 21, and maybe it is harsh to expect him to be the finished article but the fact of the matter is he has played 170+ games for the first team and is now in his 5th season. He has been handed a mega contract and rightly or wrongly Ole has indulged him from day one and sold off any competition for his position in the summer to thrust him into the main role.
I don't care if he's young, I don't care if he's from the academy, neither of those things should give him a free ride. He has been made the main man the Manchester United attack and he should be expected to perform as one.
Thought it would be fun to see where a similar player / big talent was after 5 years and at a similar age to get some perspective:
Cristiano Ronaldo
03/04: 19 games 4 goals
04/05: 33 games 5 goals
05/06: 33 games 9 goals <- 21 years
06/07: 34 games 17 goals
07/08: 34 games 31 goals
08/09: 33 games 18 goals
Rashford:
15/16: 11 games 5 goals
16/17: 32 games 5 goals
17/18: 35 games 7 goals
18/19: 33 games 10 goals
19/20: 6 games 3 goals
I mean Rashford's on a very similar path and doing quite alright for his age when you look at it like that
Then you watch the games and realise the gulf in talent between Rashford and Ronaldo, both technically and mentally. Ronaldo's finishing massively improved over those seasons. If you look back at 05/06, he was regularly hitting the post so it was clear it was going to click for him soon. Does Rashford's finishing look like it's improved at all to you? To me it looks like it's got worse - more rash (talk about nominative determinism).
He has a lot of talent but he doesn't look like kicking on. It happens to plenty of promising young players and this fan base should know that with the likes of Macheda and Januzaj coming and going. Rashford is always going to be good enough to get in the squad but he isn't a winger and it doesn't look like he's going to be the man to lead the line. The issue is he'll probably have to find another club because £200k a week isn't what bench players should be earning.
Your first paragraph is just silly. The vast majority of United fans are there to be entertained first and foremost and little else, only a minority views it as being a 'job' and those who do are one of the reasons why we're going down the drain. As fans we need to keep them on the edge: we support them when they deserve to be supported but we criticise them when they're not good enough. This is because once the club (from the owners all the way to the players) think they can get away with the mess they've created, then it's goodbye competing for major trophies and welcome mediocrity.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we should all go up in arms and ridicule our underperformers left and right, far from that, but at the same time we need to call a spade a spade with how things are going right now on the pitch. Whilst it's absolutely true that the Glazers are our number one problem and I don't expect things to change drastically unless they're gone, for a club of our stature some of the incompetence shown where it matters on the pitch have been inexcusable to say the least. We shouldn't beat around bush when it comes to this.
On Rashford, I think he can be a good player on his day. My issue with him is that he seems to have a footballing IQ of about 60 at best, and this is something I strongly believe you can't necessarily improve.
I agree his finishing looks like getting worse or maybe just in a standstill - Never had a lot of confidence in front of goal I think - some terrible attempts under Mourinho too, but I think there's a clear development in Rashford's runs, kicks and ability to play with his teammates. He's gotten extremely fast over the last year or two also with the ball, and seems to be able to take on players better.
He might miss a lot of chances, but he still produces and gets on the end of a lot of chances, where Martial might had been invisible. Personally I think he's more suited for the wing, as he'll never be a Van Persie. Ronaldo had some really bad spells here in his first years too, but the next year or two is also where we'll see if Rashford will be a good or a great player. To me he's definitely worth paying 200k a week for - We're complaining we can't get top talent, but we have our own right here in Rashford who could develop into a big thing.
Still, we can't really deny that Rashford has scored 3 in 6 so far which is still good. We don't know if he will kick on, but he gets way too much flame in here, compared with other players at 21 and their product. I hope to god he doesn't read this forum, as 75% of posts are just shitting on him with no nuances.
Totally agree mate . It must be a horrible club to come into as a young player right now with our own fanbase turning on you when you struggle for form in a disjointed team that goes through managers like nobodies business and owners that don`t seem to care about football , just profits .
It seems a lot of our fans expect young players to be like Rooney or Ronaldo because we are Manchester United and that is the standard .
Rashford , Chong , Gomes , Martial , Shaw , Dalot and all our young players don`t have the luxury of the greatest manager of all time nurturing them and slowly introducing them into a team where they are surrounded by top pros to guide them and set the standards that young players need to reach .
Ronaldo and Rashford are incomparable. Just watching them in play, Rashford looks so bad technically, whereas Ronaldo was truly special. He didn't have great end product back in those days, but he was played as a winger, a true winger, not a wing forward and still scored comparably to Rashford who plays as a wide forward or striker.
Stats aside, Rashford's technique is so bad I just can't see him ever being a top player. How can he play as a wide forward when he has to look down while dribbling to keep in control of the ball. I notice that when he has to look up while running with the ball, he often trods on the ball or leaves it behind him, or plain runs the ball out of play.
I never thought he was a true talent from the beginning because of his lack of skill on the ball, but with his good finishing when he broke in, thought he could be a good squad player. His finishing has been poor for at least a season now (although not as bad as the last few games on average), barring the Ole bump.
Don't see him as anymore as a Watford level or maybe Everton at best player.
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I actually rate Rashford really highly as a talent. I think the main issue is terrible management of him. His current talent level is more than good enough for a title winning squad. I just don't think he'll improve the mental aspects of his game to get to the level to be starting games for a title winning team.
You can look at his stats as 3 goals in 6 games and I can look at it as 1 goal from open play in 6 games, or 1 goal in his last 5, and a penalty at that.
He isn't a natural finisher at all and that's displayed most clearly by the fact he closes his eyes as he goes to head the ball. Look at the goals Greenwood has scored recently. Soon his talent is going to elevate him above Rashford and if the latter hasn't kicked on then he's going to be out of the team*.
*Assuming we get a competent manager and Greenwood himself does actually kick on
Think you're arguing a case I never made here. I never claimed the club or it's players are above criticism - I was referring to a certain type of "supporters" (I even defined them in depth) littering this forum and others like it these days who are just jumping on every opportunity they get to be as obnoxious and negative as one could possibly be - usually lacking anything even resembling perspective, objectivity and nuance - hence also substance - in what they're regurgitating. Do you really think labeling your players as deadwood and acting a complete bully towards players or a staff members is constructive? Do you think kicking someone who's already down will help them to their feet - and also motivate their teammates into performing their best on your behalf? You must be in some weird machoistic **** if that's your experience with how humans work - because I haven't seen that approach improving morale anywhere during my life.
Out of ten critical posts I read on this forum maybe two are nuanced / objective. Calling a spade a spade is not always the most constructive way to go about things - whether or not criticism if constructive or downright harmful all depends on how you present your case and what your motivations for doing so are. And I dare say most people I read on the internet... Their presentations are that of simpletons - and motivations seems questionable at best. Also I'm being pretty fecking diplomatic in that assessment because there are way worse phrases I could deploy without losing any sleep over it
