A reminder of something Jose actually said about the youth

[Gentleman Jim]

You said Jose was the worst manager for youth, dove was merely saying who actually is.

From another thread.

First half the age of our players against bayern was 35, 19,24,17, 21,20, 23,18,19,18,18 managed to turn around a 2-0 deficit to be leading 3-2

Mahrez looks crocked for a few weeks which is the only negative

Obviously some of those players will never be City First Team regulars but many of the United youth will not get much senior action either.
Jose slyly gives many kids a few unimportant games to pad his stats regarding giving kids a chance. Pep tends to promote on merit and certainly backs them to the hilt once they’re in the picture.

 

[Dec9003]

From another thread.



Obviously some of those players will never be City First Team regulars but many of the United youth will not get much senior action either.
Jose slyly gives many kids a few unimportant games to pad his stats regarding giving kids a chance. Pep tends to promote on merit and certainly backs them to the hilt once they’re in the picture.

How do you explain McTominay then? Or buying a 19 year old full back? Pep hasn't backed any youth player in his time at City, instead opting to field an incomplete bench because he had injured senior players.

 

[devilish]

Why do you keep saying this? I've already pointed out that it's an incorrect statement. Repeating it won't make it any less wrong.

Cause Pogba is not our kid. We brought him at 16, we barely ever gave him any chance whatsoever and then he grew into a world class player at Juventus. We were too busy developing Cleverley to give him a chance remember?

 

[devilish]

of course I can blame him for that tripe the other night

Tuanzebe, Fosu-Mensah, Gomes, Chong etc might never make it at United or the top level

Jose's comments were uncalled for though and did nothing but put the boot into these kids trying their hearts out to make it at United

I think he was insensitive but he was certainly honest. We won't win important stuff with just those kids around and it would be better even for their development if the club start acting as the biggest club in the world and add quality to the side.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

Yes, it's a nice quote.

The problem however is that as soon as Jose comes under pressure he deflects and blames the team and players instead, including the youth players he was so happy about above. What's the point in a quote like that one if he's going to basically say the opposite (they're not part of my squad) 2 weeks later?

This..Some of his comments have been in very bad taste over the last 6-8 months....

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Cause Pogba is not our kid. We brought him at 16, we barely ever gave him any chance whatsoever and then he grew into a world class player at Juventus. We were too busy developing Cleverley to give him a chance remember?

Paul Pogba is a graduate of the Manchester United academy. You keep on saying he isn’t as much as you want. It won’t change reality. When you get bored of that, go into your garden and start yelling that the sky is green. See how that works out for you.

 

[devilish]

Paul Pogba is a graduate of the Manchester United academy. You keep on saying he isn’t as much as you want. It won’t change reality. When you get bored of that, go into your garden and start yelling that the sky is green. See how that works out for you.

Well according to you a player we were instrumental in developing a kid who came at age 16, he left at age 18/19 (his last year was tormented with issues with the gaffer himself) and barely ever made it to first team. In my opinion we were not. Lets agree to disagree on that. I notice that you're quite versed in anger management training. Luckily I don't need that.

 

[roonster09]

Well according to you a player we were instrumental in developing a kid who came at age 16, he left at age 18/19 (his last year was tormented with issues with the gaffer himself) and barely ever made it to first team. In my opinion we were not. Lets agree to disagree on that. I notice that you're quite versed in anger management training. Luckily I don't need that.

Well what @Pogue Mahone said is correct. You can say Pogba was developed by Juventus like we did with Ronaldo but Pogba is Manutd academy product, just like Ronaldo is Sporting's.

 

[Random Task]

Obviously some of those players will never be City First Team regulars but many of the United youth will not get much senior action either.
Jose slyly gives many kids a few unimportant games to pad his stats regarding giving kids a chance. Pep tends to promote on merit and certainly backs them to the hilt once they’re in the picture.

That's just not true.

Both Rashford and Martial have been given ample opportunities to impress during Jose's tenure, Mctominay broke through last season and was given a great deal of game time with which to improve and further his development. Dallot (19 years old) was recently purchased as a long-term replacement for Valencia at right-back. He has stuck by Luke Shaw, recently applauding his efforts for the weight-loss and general improvement in training. Lingard has flourished under Jose's guidance for both club and country. I might have overlooked other worthwhile examples.

If they have been good enough and shown the correct attitude and willingness to progress, Jose has both supported and played them.

 

[devilish]

Well what @Pogue Mahone said is correct. You can say Pogba was developed by Juventus like we did with Ronaldo but Pogba is Manutd academy product, just like Ronaldo is Sporting's.

Ronaldo left Sporting at 18 so we can't really call him our kid as Juventus wouldn't call Pogba their own kid either. However yes, we were more instrumental in Ronaldo's development then we had been with Pogba. In my opinion the former is a Sporting talent the latter is a French academy talent. There he spent the crucial first 10 years of his development.

 

[roonster09]

Obviously some of those players will never be City First Team regulars but many of the United youth will not get much senior action either.
Jose slyly gives many kids a few unimportant games to pad his stats regarding giving kids a chance. Pep tends to promote on merit and certainly backs them to the hilt once they’re in the picture.

That's nonsense. Go and check how many important games McTominay played in, same with Lingard, Rashford.

 

[roonster09]

Ronaldo left Sporting at 18 so we can't really call him our kid as Juventus wouldn't call Pogba their own kid either. However yes, we were more instrumental in Ronaldo's development then we had with Pogba. In my opinion the former is a Sporting talent the latter is a Le Havre one

Why Le Havre one? He spent only 2 years there and they had similar dispute with other club when they poached Pogba when he was 14.

Anyways I will stick to general definition, he played in our academy and we developed him. Pogba is our academy player and all the CL, PL list says so and that's good enough for me.

I'm done as I know how this will end up.

 

[devilish]

Why Le Havre one? He spent only 2 years there and they had similar dispute with other club when they poached Pogba when he was 14.

Anyways I will stick to general definition, he played in our academy and we developed him. Pogba is our academy player and all the CL, PL list says so and that's good enough for me.

I'm done as I know how this will end up.

In fact I corrected it into French academy (ie various clubs). That's were he spent his first 10 years of his development. Please note that we also poached him at age 16 and he left us at age 18-19 because disillusioned of the lack of opportunities we gave him. So while he played in our academy I hardly feel he's our kid. We poached him, he barely got any first team chances and he moved to greener pastures were he developed into a world class player. Then we came back to our senses and spent shitloads of money to have him back.

 

[Greck]

That's nonsense. Go and check how many important games McTominay played in, same with Lingard, Rashford.

Lingard is 25. Older than Sane, Sterling, Jesus, Ederson, Bernardo Silva, Laporte, you get the idea. The youngsters pep doesn't play are getting benched by other youngsters

 

[roonster09]

Lingard is 25. Older than Sane, Sterling, Jesus, Ederson, Bernardo Silva, Laporte, you get the idea. The youngsters pep doesn't play are getting benched by other youngsters

We are talking about academy players isn't it. Ignoring Lingard, he gave chances to Rashford, McTominay and they played in important games, not in meaningless games to pad his stats.

Re your post, not sure what that has anything to do with discussion. Playing youngster you signed for 40-50 million is not a big deal, trusting young player from academy and playing him in first team is.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Well what @Pogue Mahone said is correct. You can say Pogba was developed by Juventus like we did with Ronaldo but Pogba is Manutd academy product, just like Ronaldo is Sporting's.

Well exactly. Of course, giving United credit for developing Ronaldo wouldn’t fit with his “no world class players developed since ‘92” narrative.

 

[Greck]

We are talking about academy players isn't it. Ignoring Lingard, he gave chances to Rashford, McTominay and they played in important games, not in meaningless games to pad his stats.

Re your post, not sure what that has anything to do with discussion. Playing youngster you signed for 40-50 million is not a big deal, trusting young player from academy and playing him in first team is.

The discussion started from the statement that Pep wasn't suited to young players right? Not academy young players.

Edit: ahh I see from Pogue's post above why you chose such a random criterion

 

[Kostov]

Ok, that's very nice of him. Can we now ask him to stop moaning about anything and everything?

 

[Gordon S]

At the end of the day, Mourinho could (and probably should) have worded his griping a lot better. Something about the kids having a tough job with so few senior players missing. How he was proud of their efforts all the same. No need to talk about any of them as "not being in my squad". No need to try and blame other players for Sanchez being frustrated. Blah blah blah. It's really not difficult for someone with as much experience of press conferences as Mourinho to be a little bit more careful with what he said and to make the fringe players feel a little more loved and less responsible for the defeat. He is what he is, though. We knew that when he took the job. Personally, I'm getting a bit ground down by all his moaning. Even though I know it comes with the territory. That said, there's not much point getting too worked up every time he has a bit of a moan and tries to blame other people for any set-backs. That would be like getting wound up by your dog, every time it barks. If it bothers you that much, sell the dog and get a cat.

We should let Mckenna do the interviews when we loose. Mourinho letting off steam directly after the game probably makes him look a lot more miserable than he really is.

A bit like some usually sane people going postal in the matchday threads on here.

 

[Cascarino]

That's just not true.

Both Rashford and Martial have been given ample opportunities to impress during Jose's tenure, Mctominay broke through last season and was given a great deal of game time with which to improve and further his development. Dallot (19 years old) was recently purchased as a long-term replacement for Valencia at right-back. He has stuck by Luke Shaw, recently applauding his efforts for the weight-loss and general improvement in training. Lingard has flourished under Jose's guidance for both club and country. I might have overlooked other worthwhile examples.

If they have been good enough and shown the correct attitude and willingness to progress, Jose has both supported and played them.

He's 25. I'm not sure you can really praise Mourinho's handling of Shaw either. Agree with the rest.

 

[kouroux]

Yes, it's a nice quote.

The problem however is that as soon as Jose comes under pressure he deflects and blames the team and players instead, including the youth players he was so happy about above. What's the point in a quote like that one if he's going to basically say the opposite (they're not part of my squad) 2 weeks later?

Great post. Basically he is all over the place.
When the going gets tough is when you truly see the value and the real face of someone.

 

[John_K]

Absolutely ludicrous that he is being defended... talking about 30% ect

Wow what a joy he would be to work with, especially as a youngster.

He could have said a million other things that would’ve been more positive instead of the garbage he said.

 

[roonster09]

We are talking about academy players isn't it. Ignoring Lingard, he gave chances to Rashford, McTominay and they played in important games, not in meaningless games to pad his stats.

Re your post, not sure what that has anything to do with discussion. Playing youngster you signed for 40-50 million is not a big deal, trusting young player from academy and playing him in first team is.

It was about promoting young players which means academy players.

 

[Schmiznurf]

Absolutely ludicrous that he is being defended... talking about 30% ect

Wow what a joy he would be to work with, especially as a youngster.

He could have said a million other things that would’ve been more positive instead of the garbage he said.

He's being defended because a whole bunch of stuff is lies, another bunch is out of context to make him look bad and the rest is being wrongly interpreted.

 

[Velvet Revolver]

We should let Mckenna do the interviews when we loose. Mourinho letting off steam directly after the game probably makes him look a lot more miserable than he really is.

A bit like some usually sane people going postal in the matchday threads on here.

Maybe we should just get rid of press conferences in total. Anyways journalists make up quotes, lets give them some actual work to come up with imaginative quotes!

 

[Velvet Revolver]

This whole Anti-United Anti-Jose is getting cringe worthy! the fact that even when we are down people are making more from our misery than actually from our rival's success speaks volume!

Jose's gripe with the media is understandable. Why is so much importance being given to a freaking preseason game? This has nothing to do with our game plan or the way we will lineup come 10th of August! His quotes fake or true don't mean anything just like how Pep and Klopp keep making stuff up. Jose is brashly honest and the press can contort it in a way to say Jose is reincarnation of Satan who hates kids!

Based on the recent quotes by the all savior Jesus Pepping Christ ,Are journos' going to question his team selection when there are no academy players on the bench?

 

[flappyjay]

He isn't, it's the ridiculous bitchiness from some parts of our fan base. Those who never liked Jose love this stuff, they love it and so the papers sell it for them to lap up. The negative threads on here have always been bigger than positive ones though just the way it is.

That quote on them not being part of the squad is a nothing quote. The players know they're still youth rank and gaining experience the idea that they think they're part of the first team squad is stupid.

Lingard, Adnan, Scott in recent years went to pre season with the seniors and came back as part of the first team. The lads know this and see pre season as a way to gain experience and to also impress the manager enough to get in his plans. What he said must have crushed some of the lads, it would be naive to think it didn't.

 

[edgar allan]

I think he was insensitive but he was certainly honest. We won't win important stuff with just those kids around and it would be better even for their development if the club start acting as the biggest club in the world and add quality to the side.

Sound a lot like Alan Hansen there Pal.
Can you give me one positive for the young players of the tour or the club in his comments?

 

[Borden]

This changes everything.

 

[devilish]

Sound a lot like Alan Hansen there Pal.
Can you give me one positive for the young players of the tour or the club in his comments?

I haven't followed the tour enough to really comment but I liked what I saw from Mitchell and Periera. Returning to your comment I think its a bit silly tbh

a- United had a star studded side with or without the so called rebels (Hughes, Ince and Kanchelskis). We had Schmeichel as GK, Bruce, Pally, Gaz and Irwin in defence, Keane and Giggs in midfield and Cole and Cantona upfront. All those players would walk in our current team.

b- the league was way more once sided than it is now. SAF had to contend with 'geniuses' to the likes of Keegan and Dalglish. I doubt any of those would find any EPL club willing to give them a chance these days.

c- SAF introduced his kids gradually. Giggs cames first and was surrounded by Irwin, Cantona, Keane and Ince. Then in came Gaz who was surrounded by the likes of Pally, Ince, Keane, Bruce and Kanchelskis. Then Butt and Scholes were slowly introduced followed by Phil. May I remind you that the same SAF who gave these kids the chance of a lifetime, also bought Sheringham when Cantona left the club prematurely and begged Anderton to sign for us. That's because he felt that Scholes (who scored a looping 14 goals during the season when Cantona got suspended) and Beckham weren't ready yet for first team.

We are expecting our kids to walk into a team that is weak on talent and leadership while playing in a league that is way tougher then faced by the class of 92. That's a feat which is way bigger to the one faced by the class of 92.

 

[Smores]

Lingard, Adnan, Scott in recent years went to pre season with the seniors and came back as part of the first team. The lads know this and see pre season as a way to gain experience and to also impress the manager enough to get in his plans. What he said must have crushed some of the lads, it would be naive to think it didn't.

Which of these 17/18 year old lads would have been crushed by not instantly being considered 1st team squad exactly? Garner? Hamiltion? Gomes?

Chong is the only one close to being ready and Jose has already publically laid out plans for him to train with the first team and slowly integrate.

It's far more naive to think these young lads don't see a distinction between their state and established first team players who the manager would want to get ready for our first game.

But its important to assume theyre idiotic children in order to slag off the manager i guess

 

[edgar allan]

I haven't followed the tour enough to really comment but I liked what I saw from Mitchell and Periera. Returning to your comment I think its a bit silly tbh

a- United had a star studded side with or without the so called rebels (Hughes, Ince and Kanchelskis). We had Schmeichel as GK, Bruce, Pally, Gaz and Irwin in defence, Keane and Giggs in midfield and Cole and Cantona upfront. All those players would walk in our current team.

b- the league was way more once sided than it is now. SAF had to contend with 'geniuses' to the likes of Keegan and Dalglish. I doubt any of those would find any EPL club willing to give them a chance these days.

c- SAF introduced his kids gradually. Giggs cames first and was surrounded by Irwin, Cantona, Keane and Ince. Then in came Gaz who was surrounded by the likes of Pally, Ince, Keane, Bruce and Kanchelskis. Then Butt and Scholes were slowly introduced followed by Phil. May I remind you that the same SAF who gave these kids the chance of a lifetime, also bought Sheringham when Cantona left the club prematurely and begged Anderton to sign for us. That's because he felt that Scholes (who scored a looping 14 goals during the season when Cantona got suspended) and Beckham weren't ready yet for first team.

We are expecting our kids to walk into a team that is weak on talent and leadership while playing in a league that is way tougher then faced by the class of 92. That's a feat which is way bigger to the one faced by the class of 92.

You are missing the point. No-one is saying that any of these young players should be starting or even are good enough to start in the future. However they have done their best in the pre-season games and it wouldn't have hurt Jose to give them some encouragement after the Liverpool game or even if he had nothing positive to say ,to just say nothing

 

[Gentleman Jim]

That's nonsense. Go and check how many important games McTominay played in, same with Lingard, Rashford.

McTominay merely filling in for injured or out of favour players. Nowhere near United standard and you know it.
Rashford and Lingard already frequently first teamers under LVG.
Dalot has been mentioned. Would TFM or Axel not been worth a punt in his stead?

 

[devilish]

You are missing the point. No-one is saying that any of these young players should be starting or even are good enough to start in the future. However they have done their best in the pre-season games and it wouldn't have hurt Jose to give them some encouragement after the Liverpool game or even if he had nothing positive to say ,to just say nothing

People asked him why Sanchez looked so miserable and he was honest about it. I can't really blame him on that.

This reliance on kids is not good for anybody. Kids should be mentored off and on the pitch not thrown as canon fodder at the mercy of Salah, Mane and co. That can crush anyone's confidence. That's why Bailly volunteered himself to play despite being injured and that's why Sanchez looked so miserable (according to Mou)

 

[edgar allan]

People asked him why Sanchez looked so miserable and he was honest about it. I can't really blame him on that.

This reliance on kids is not good for anybody. Kids should be mentored off and on the pitch not thrown as canon fodder at the mercy of Salah, Mane and co. That can crush anyone's confidence. That's why Bailly volunteered himself to play despite being injured and that's why Sanchez looked so miserable (according to Mou)

Sanchez has looked miserable for long periods since he arrived so not sure if the kids is a reasonable excuse.

 

[andyjgt1]

McTominay merely filling in for injured or out of favour players. Nowhere near United standard and you know it.
Rashford and Lingard already frequently first teamers under LVG.
Dalot has been mentioned. Would TFM or Axel not been worth a punt in his stead?

TFM and Axel, maybe even Mitchell, should be given the same chances as Dalot who is younger and less experienced, at least initially or until they prove they are worse than the Portuguese, if they are not, it can only be because Dalot cost money, as it was with Lindelof being preferred to Axel last season after the Swansea cup game (Victor was more experienced though even if not in England).

 

[roonster09]

McTominay merely filling in for injured or out of favour players. Nowhere near United standard and you know it.
Rashford and Lingard already frequently first teamers under LVG.
Dalot has been mentioned. Would TFM or Axel not been worth a punt in his stead?

McTominay wasn't filling in, he played in important games ahead of senior players. Whether he will become better player or Manutd quality is just assumptions. Realty is, Jose showed more trust in him than Pep did on any of the academy players.

Rashford had 18 appearances when Jose took over, hardly proven quality.

Not sure what you are on about Dalot. Tuanzebe is CB, Dalot is RB. TFM will go on loan and if he impresses then he will fight with Dalot for RB position.

Edit:
McTominay played against Benfica in important group game
Against Sevilla in Round of 16 first game
He started vs Chelsea, Liverpool,
Started FA cup games against Huddersfield, Brighton.

That's not just filling in, that's called gaining manager's trust to play in big games.

 

[roonster09]

TFM and Axel, maybe even Mitchell, should be given the same chances as Dalot who is younger and less experienced, at least initially or until they prove they are worse than the Portuguese, if they are not, it can only be because Dalot cost money, as it was with Lindelof being preferred to Axel last season after the Swansea cup game (Victor was more experienced though even if not in England).

Yeah, clubs should never sign any players, they should only promote from academy.

 

[artursk]

Have watched all Jose's press conferences and post match interviews - I think what he is saying is much more sensible than the press wants us to think. Yes, his style is not as positive as that of Klopp but he is very, very honest in his answers.

So keep supporting our manager! He's a winner and understands perfectly well how things work. Certainly understands it better than the sensationalist press. We'll be fine.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Why would you let facts get in the way of furthering your aganda ?

I saw people using Pep's quotes to shit on Jose. The same Pep that last year prefered to go with an incomplete bench instead of taking a youngster with him.

Also Klopp got a free ride for his Pogba/money quotes from the media. Imagine if this was Jose, the journos would have a field day:

“Other clubs can go out and spend more money and collect top players, yes. But if you bring one player in for £100m or whatever, and he gets injured, then it all goes through the chimney. Do I have to do it differently to that? Actually, I want to do it differently. I would even do it differently if I could spend that money. The day that this is football, I’m not in a job any more.”


For a bit of context....

Pep Man City signings:
Players with fee: 21
Transfer expenditure: £538,920,000
Fee per player: £25,662,857

Klopp LPool signings:
Players with fee: 13
Transfer expenditure: £393,210,000
Fee per player: £30,246,923

Mourinho Man Utd signings:
Players with fee: 9
Transfer expenditure: £388,890,000
Fee per player: £43,210,000