A season of two halves...

[Damien]

If you take the 35 points from our second half season performance and double it we wouldn't make top four in any of the previous three seasons.

You're taking performances over 18 games and doubling it which would be 36 games. Like mehro has said, our run has lasted pretty long, it is just those first nine games in particular where we were disappointing and for most of those we were relying on Pereira, Mata, Lingard and James for our creativity with Martial and Pogba injured at times. If we are able to bring in Sancho and Grealish along with a defensive option and offload at least two of Mata, Pereira and Lingard, our options will be much better off.

 

[automaticflare]

What? This is simply not true. The criminal decision was not to sign Bruno and start the season with Lingard and Pereira as the #10's.
The problem was creating chances not finishing them. Look I criticize Ole as much as the next guy but the decision not to splash cash on some random forward and put some faith In Martial Rashford and Mason was spot on. Ole got ridiculed for believing that those 3 can produce numbers consistently yet he was bang on the money. Mason alone scored as much as lukaku scored last season not to mention the huge improvement in Martial's and Rahford's numbers. Very Ballsy decision from Ole, credit where credit is due.

100% agree mate. Getting rid of lukaku was the right decision. What we didn’t have (and lukaku also suffered from this) was any sort of decent supply from midfield. That changed when we signed Bruno.

The decision to move him on was 100% correct and the dynamic front 3 we have gives us way more potential.

I still think we should sign snacho, a center back and a matic replacement

 

[MalcolmTucker]

You can go back to match day 10. Third place and 6 points behind city since then. Our start really screwed us.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/premier-league/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB1?saison_id=2019&min=10&max=38

This is really surprising and puts things into perspective. We've had an injury hit campaign and a young team, looking forward to seeing how we do next season with some welcome additions.

 

[VeevaVee]

The trajectory is good. The best it’s been since SAF left, for sure. Not sure the season shows it as much as it shows our ability to heavily swing in either direction for a while though.

 

[Mr Smith]

What jumps out at me is how many games we draw. Way, way too many. Hallmark of a team that struggle to kill games, which is absolutely a problem we've had. I don't know the stats, but I'm certain we've conceded far more goals late in games to drop points than we have scored late goals to take points.

 

[jem]

First 19 games
P 19 W7 D7 L5 F30 A23 GD+7 Points 28 (8th place)

Most recent 18 game
P 18 W10 D5 L3 F34 A13 GD+21 Points 35 (3rd place; 5 points behind City, 9 points behind Liverpool)

For me, deciding whether to retain a manager is about trajectory. And our trajectory looks good, despite recent wobbles. It's also good to see that we've done better than our CL rivals during this run. My only concern is the absolute points total. If you take the 35 points from our second half season performance and double it we wouldn't make top four in any of the previous three seasons, never mind getting anywhere near the top of the league. And that's not good at all.

Discuss.

My very simplistic take is that we can't get rid of Ole now, not after the good run of results in 2020. Yet, there is a nagging feeling inside that he just isn't good enough, and that we'll be in this exact same position next year, complaining about all the same things.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

My very simplistic take is that we can't get rid of Ole now, not after the good run of results in 2020. Yet, there is a nagging feeling inside that he just isn't good enough, and that we'll be in this exact same position next year, complaining about all the same things.

I have the same nagging feeling. Although the Bruno signing has me thinking maybe, just maybe, we can sign players this summer that will kick us up a level next season.

Basically, I’ve become a 90s/00s Liverpool fan. FML.

 

[jem]

I have the same nagging feeling. Although the Bruno signing has me thinking maybe, just maybe, we can sign players this summer that will kick us up a level next season.

Basically, I’ve become a 90s/00s Liverpool fan. FML.

It can't be stressed enough how important getting Champions League is, given that we really need to sign those kinds of players. The problem is that I think we need another attacker (like Sancho,) another top-notch attacking midfielder to challenge/spell Bruno and Pogba (Grealish?) and, most importantly in my opinion, an upgrade on Matic. That right there would cost a shit-load, and I still wouldn't be totally confident. Our centre-backs still have some question marks, and look what happens when Shaw gets hurt, which is not exactly an uncommon occurrence. Finally, I'd be very worried about another year of DDG, and it seems there are some questions as to whether Henderson is the requisite quality (I haven't seen enough to really say.)

 

[Infra-red]

It can't be stressed enough how important getting Champions League is, given that we really need to sign those kinds of players. The problem is that I think we need another attacker (like Sancho,) another top-notch attacking midfielder to challenge/spell Bruno and Pogba (Grealish?) and, most importantly in my opinion, an upgrade on Matic. That right there would cost a shit-load, and I still wouldn't be totally confident. Our centre-backs still have some question marks, and look what happens when Shaw gets hurt, which is not exactly an uncommon occurrence. Finally, I'd be very worried about another year of DDG, and it seems there are some questions as to whether Henderson is the requisite quality (I haven't seen enough to really say.)

Yep. It might not be accurate to describe Sunday as "make or break" - is it is conceivable that even with Sancho and other investments, we could still fall short. The "break" aspect of it does loom large though - if we fail to secure CL qualification, it certainly could be a fatal blow, not just to our aspirations for next season, but, given that he's a manager who relies very heavily on individual moments of quality from his attacking players, the entire Solskjaer "project".

 

[cyberman]

Yep. It might not be accurate to describe Sunday as "make or break" - is it is conceivable that even with Sancho and other investments, we could still fall short. The "break" aspect of it does loom large though - if we fail to secure CL qualification, it certainly could be a fatal blow, not just to our aspirations for net season, but, given that he's a manager who relies very heavily on individual moments of quality from his attacking players, the entire Solskjaer "project".

Our forward players didnt have those individual moments in them until Ole took charge. Lets not ptetend Ole isnt a huge reason why our forward players are as good as they are.

 

[EwanI Ted]

Ole gambled on changing the squad as quickly as possible. I think he wanted to drop the deadwood because he thought it was inhibiting our long term development. So we dropped them - 9 senior players have left I think since the end of last season - and focussed on long term options only. If that meant playing a young player for now, or even playing with an obvious gap in the squad, like at RW, then so be it. Better for the long term to do that than to keep buying mediocrity.

There was always a risk of going backwards before we went forwards with that strategy, but it definitely backfired at first. Injuries to our thin squad before Xmas left us bereft of talent, and letting Lukaku go in particular looked damaging until the new year. But it turned around in the second half of the season and I think his strategy is starting to pay dividends. Would Martial have flourished as a number 9 had Lukaku been knocking around? Would Greenwood have developed post-lockdown if we'd ponied up for Willian or some other short term option on the RW? Would we have seen McTominay develop so much if we could have relied on Herrera? Those older players might have gained us a few more points this year, but in the end, they weren't going to help us win the league and would have stunted the development of players who might.

Winning the title looks to be out of our reach next year, but given that we've barely made the top 4 twice in six seasons, that was never realistic anyway. Key thing is that our foundations look set, finally. The first team looks great, the attacking play is good and the age profile is perfectly set for the next 4 or 5 seasons together. There's clarity in our recruitment again, we look like we know what we need to bring in. The group looks happy and like they enjoy their football together. These may only be the basics, but the basics have been missing since Moyes started tinkering all those years ago. They won't bring success by themselves, but you can't have success without them. So despite the topsy turvey season, I do think we're heading the right way.

 

[My only Eric]

A season of 3 halves.. the meh, the good and the heart breaking

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I mean, how did Jose do in the first half of 2016/17? The season we kept winning 4-0 at the start. I feel many managers go through good spells as Ole has done before. When you have great players you will hit form. But at the end of the day, we have to see both sides. We have been very good since the turn of the year but all in all it's been a mediocre over the course of the season. Doing well in the 1st and badly in the 2nd half doesn't mean you have to continue to do badly thereafter just like it doesn't work the other way around.

I'm skeptical of Ole. I think he has the right priorities - youth, pace, flair players etc. For example principals are a much better for Manchester United than Jose Mourinho's. But that doesn't in itself mean he will be the one bring the title back to the club. So, wait, watch and hope amidst skepticism and optimism.

 

[eire-red]

My biggest concern is that we don’t react to adversity well at all. We had this before where we went on a good run under Solskjaer then as soon as we lost a game we went to absolute shite for months. We should’ve had a reaction to that God awful performance on Sunday but if anything actually were worse last night. Without the right signings I don’t see this trajectory improving at all. And 64 points definitely won’t be enough for top four next season.

The reaction from the lads going behind against Spurs, Bournemouth, Southampton and West Ham has been good though. The Chelsea result was coming to be fair, we looked leggy against a fresher side with a manager who had a point to prove after been beaten by his counterpart three times so far this season.

I think the mentality is better in the face of adversity, still not to the level where you'd expect a top team to be, but you can't compare the capitulation last year to this team still grinding out results, and despite all the odds against us, going into the final day of the season in 3rd.

I think what we're missing at times is a bit of inspiration from the bench, a player that can come on and make a difference, beat a couple of players and give us an extra dimension. Ole looks bereft of ideas when it's not going to plan and he looks back and sees Ighalo, Pereira and James. When we're allowed to play, we're good, but if the opposition can nullify us, we look quite one dimensional, which I think is the case in the lacklustre performances against Southampton and West Ham.

I don't feel like this run is a flash in the pan, I look at that team and all i think is "If we had Bruno from the start of the season, Crystal Palace, West Ham, Burnley etc would have never happened. We could be sitting comfortably in 3rd right now, right behind City. Despite everything, we've still only lost 8 games as poor as we've been. Think Chelsea have lost 13? City 9/10? Only Liverpool have lost less. It's the draws that have killed us, and Bruno seems to be the missing piece to turn those draws into wins.

 

[jem]

Our forward players didnt have those individual moments in them until Ole took charge. Lets not ptetend Ole isnt a huge reason why our forward players are as good as they are.

That's not entirely true - Martial had shown great promise in his early years at the club, as had Rashford. As for Greenwood, he's come into the first team under Ole, so there is no before-Ole so to speak with him. That being said, I think Ole does deserve a lot of credit for the patience and trust he has shown, particularly with Martial.

 

[Isotope]

Other than increased on points, other factors that can be considered are:
- the improvement of players over time,
- more pleasant to watch style of attacking/counter attacking play,
- the proper use and development of youth/young players,
- how well the manager treats their players, how players respect the manager,
- how well the manager create team's bond / togetherness,
- how well the manager is buying players.

The season after we finished 2nd and went to FA Final under Mou, the team was in shamble, and frankly it was unwatchable (word ?). There was just so much negativity around the Club. So League points is important, but those other factors are equally high values.

 

[el3mel]

The great form we had since restart and up till Saints game definitely gives us a big hope that next season might be very good. Hopefully everything goes alright and we have a good transfer market as well.

 

[starman]

People forget this season Rashford was out for 2 months (would be more were not for lockdown)
Martial was out for 2 months
Pogba was out for 7 months (More were it not for lockdown)

We are only finally at a point in the season when everyone is fit. All the other top six teams didn't have 3 of their best players out for so long

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

First 19 games
P 19 W7 D7 L5 F30 A23 GD+7 Points 28 (8th place)

Most recent 18 game
P 18 W10 D5 L3 F34 A13 GD+21 Points 35 (3rd place; 5 points behind City, 9 points behind Liverpool)

For me, deciding whether to retain a manager is about trajectory. And our trajectory looks good, despite recent wobbles. It's also good to see that we've done better than our CL rivals during this run. My only concern is the absolute points total. If you take the 35 points from our second half season performance and double it we wouldn't make top four in any of the previous three seasons, never mind getting anywhere near the top of the league. And that's not good at all.

Discuss.

It all stems from Woodward correcting his summer mistake and giving Ole Bruno in January like he should have in the summer. That single transfer have us the ability to finally match results to the talent in our squad. Here's to hoping he doesn't waste another summer to leave strengthening till January.

 

[Bilbo]

My very simplistic take is that we can't get rid of Ole now, not after the good run of results in 2020. Yet, there is a nagging feeling inside that he just isn't good enough, and that we'll be in this exact same position next year, complaining about all the same things.

I think this has always been the case though. Not the nagging feeling part, but the notion that he will need to grow with the job to keep it.

100% definitely the right manager for right now. 100% definitely has done an outstanding job so far. 100% he should, and will, be manager next season.

As said above though he needs to keep proving to us all that he can finish the job, as would be the case with any manager. That question mark will remain until he wins a big trophy, but for me the crucial moment is season after next. He must keep displaying progress next season, and I believe he will, but then he must prove that he can win big titles for the club.

 

[red4ever 79]

100% agree mate. Getting rid of lukaku was the right decision. What we didn’t have (and lukaku also suffered from this) was any sort of decent supply from midfield. That changed when we signed Bruno.

The decision to move him on was 100% correct and the dynamic front 3 we have gives us way more potential.

I still think we should sign snacho, a center back and a matic replacement

Signing

I think this has always been the case though. Not the nagging feeling part, but the notion that he will need to grow with the job to keep it.

100% definitely the right manager for right now. 100% definitely has done an outstanding job so far. 100% he should, and will, be manager next season.

As said above though he needs to keep proving to us all that he can finish the job, as would be the case with any manager. That question mark will remain until he wins a big trophy, but for me the crucial moment is season after next. He must keep displaying progress next season, and I believe he will, but then he must prove that he can win big titles for the club.

Jesus christ, have a word with yourself son

 

[Bilbo]

Jesus christ, have a word with yourself son

So convince me I'm wrong then. And don't call me son.

 

[roonster09]

Was checking few stats, our start to the season was terrible but since the International break in October, we are 3rd best team in the league (30 games so that's a big chunk of the season).

First 8 games (Before International break)

R	Team	P	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
1	Liverpool	8	8	0	0	20	6	14	24
2	Manchester City	8	5	1	2	27	9	18	16
3	Arsenal	8	4	3	1	13	11	2	15
4	Leicester	8	4	2	2	14	7	7	14
5	Chelsea	8	4	2	2	18	14	4	14
6	Crystal Palace	8	4	2	2	8	8	0	14
7	Burnley	8	3	3	2	11	9	2	12
8	West Ham	8	3	3	2	11	11	0	12
9	Tottenham	8	3	2	3	14	12	2	11
10	Bournemouth	8	3	2	3	13	13	0	11
11	Wolverhampton Wanderers	8	2	4	2	11	11	0	10
12	Manchester United	8	2	3	3	9	8	1	9
13	Sheffield United	8	2	3	3	7	7	0	9
14	Brighton	8	2	3	3	8	10	-2	9
15	Aston Villa	8	2	2	4	13	12	1	8
16	Newcastle United	8	2	2	4	5	13	-8	8
17	Southampton	8	2	1	5	8	15	-7	7
18	Everton	8	2	1	5	6	13	-7	7
19	Norwich	8	2	0	6	10	21	-11	6
20	Watford	8	0	3	5	4	20	-16	3

Since the International break

R	Team	P	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
1	Liverpool	30	24	3	3	65	27	38	75
2	Manchester City	30	21	2	7	75	26	49	65
3	Manchester United	30	16	9	5	57	28	29	57
4	Chelsea	30	16	4	10	51	40	11	52
5	Wolverhampton Wanderers	30	13	10	7	40	29	11	49
6	Leicester	30	14	6	10	53	34	19	48
7	Tottenham	30	13	9	8	47	35	12	48
8	Sheffield United	30	12	9	9	32	32	0	45
9	Southampton	30	13	6	11	43	45	-2	45
10	Everton	30	11	9	10	38	43	-5	42
11	Burnley	30	12	6	12	32	41	-9	42
12	Arsenal	30	10	11	9	43	37	6	41
13	Newcastle United	30	9	9	12	33	45	-12	36
14	Brighton	30	7	11	12	31	44	-13	32
15	Watford	30	8	7	15	32	44	-12	31
16	Crystal Palace	30	7	8	15	23	42	-19	29
17	West Ham	30	7	6	17	38	51	-13	27
18	Aston Villa	30	7	6	17	28	55	-27	27
19	Bournemouth	30	6	5	19	27	52	-25	23
20	Norwich	30	3	6	21	16	54	-38	15

Since Bruno was signed

R	Team	P	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
1	Manchester United	14	9	5	0	30	7	23	32
2	Manchester City	14	10	0	4	37	8	29	30
3	Liverpool	14	9	2	3	29	18	11	29
4	Arsenal	14	8	2	4	24	14	10	26
5	Chelsea	14	8	2	4	28	22	6	26
6	Tottenham	14	7	4	3	23	15	8	25
7	Wolverhampton Wanderers	14	7	4	3	16	8	8	25
8	Burnley	14	6	6	2	15	12	3	24
9	Southampton	14	6	3	5	20	18	2	21
10	Sheffield United	14	6	3	5	14	16	-2	21
11	Everton	14	5	4	5	16	21	-5	19
12	West Ham	14	4	4	6	22	22	0	16
13	Brighton	14	3	7	4	12	20	-8	16
14	Leicester	14	3	5	6	15	17	-2	14
15	Newcastle United	14	3	5	6	14	22	-8	14
16	Crystal Palace	14	4	1	9	9	22	-13	13
17	Bournemouth	14	3	2	9	17	28	-11	11
18	Watford	14	3	2	9	15	28	-13	11
19	Aston Villa	14	2	4	8	10	22	-12	10
20	Norwich	14	1	1	12	2	28	-26	4

Since the restart

R	Team	P	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts
1	Manchester City	10	8	0	2	34	4	30	24
2	Manchester United	9	6	3	0	22	6	16	21
3	Southampton	9	5	3	1	16	8	8	18
4	Tottenham	9	5	3	1	14	7	7	18
5	Chelsea	9	6	0	3	18	15	3	18
6	Liverpool	9	5	2	2	19	12	7	17
7	Arsenal	10	5	1	4	16	12	4	16
8	Wolverhampton Wanderers	9	5	1	3	10	6	4	16
9	Burnley	9	4	3	2	9	10	-1	15
10	West Ham	9	3	3	3	14	12	2	12
11	Everton	9	3	3	3	7	10	-3	12
12	Brighton	9	3	3	3	7	14	-7	12
13	Sheffield United	10	3	2	5	9	14	-5	11
14	Aston Villa	10	2	4	4	7	11	-4	10
15	Newcastle United	9	2	3	4	13	17	-4	9
16	Leicester	9	2	3	4	9	13	-4	9
17	Bournemouth	9	2	1	6	11	18	-7	7
18	Watford	9	2	1	6	9	20	-11	7
19	Crystal Palace	9	1	1	7	5	18	-13	4
20	Norwich	9	0	0	9	1	23	-22	0

Signing Bruno was a huge turning point, we have done excellently since he signed, we also did good enough job if you considering last 30 league games which is around 80% of the season.

Also since Bruno was signed, we are 2nd in goals scored - 30 goals - 2.14 goals per game
We have best defensive record - 7 goals conceded in 14 league games, that's exceptional record considering we played Wolves at home, Chelsea away, Everton away, City at home, Spurs away, Leicester away.