Poch lucked out with the emergence of Kane too. What would Spurs have achieved in those years without Kane?
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
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Almost sounding like you want us to continue the not winning trophy "Errr...itage"
Got into the champion league final and finish fourth without Kane for the majority of that season. Pochettino developer Jane into the star player he is now. Before Pochettino he was a nobody and was not highly regarded. Gomes had a higher ceiling than Kane at the same age.
Regardless, pochettino overachieved at Spurs and Southampton. It does not take someone with the same level of football insight as me or other intelligent football analysis to realize that he will overachieve here at United especially if we continue to back our manager in the same way. It just show how low the club ambition has fallen and how bad our judgement are. I don’t expect Barcelona, city, Psg, Real Madrid, and other big clubs to be tapping up Poch after this United job, unless he somehow turn his career around. But that will only happen if our board continues to throw large amounts of money at Ole.
Kane developed because of his desire and hard work. Managers don't magically transform players. They offer guidence only.
Kane himself said that he was ready to make an impact under AVB but he wouldn't give him a shot even though he was on-fire in training. He even refused to go on loan because he knew he was ready to make an impact. Fair play to Poch for giving him the shot AVB wouldn't but Poch didn't make him or anything close to it.
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Can you just tell us why his greatness didn't attract any top clubs taking him? People in here were talking about Barcelona, PSG, Juventus. But he is still unemployed despite some of those clubs changing managers.
I don't think he is bad at all. Good manager. No question. But people are putting him in the clouds to easy. Especially since he has same amount titles as some random guy or girl you can meet in the streets. 0 that is.
We hardly going anywhere now playing rubbish football so why not.
You get that Ole feeling but with better football. Win win for you. Seeing as you have no aspirations to win the league as your so happy to back Ole.
There first title challenge in recent time and their first CL final and they were still complaining. Jeez!
Honestly, I don't have a concrete opinion on Nagelsmann yet. Whenever I've watched his team, I've never been impressed by the style of his football, but you can't deny what he's done at such a young age for a manager is impressive. In terms of Bundesliga managers, I prefer Rose to him myself.
Regarding Poch, I may have wanted him to succeed Fergie (& every other manager since) but I think the perfect time to have got him was after van Gaal. Louis had already implemented possession football on the club, and instead of dismantling all his work and starting from zero again on a totally opposite style, we should've got Poch to build on it; taking us to the next level.
Those people include Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher.
No, our aim at the moment is to re-establish ourselves as a top 4 club. We've finished 3rd, 6th, 2nd, 6th, 5th, 4th, 7th since SAF.
The aim has to be to actually build a team, you can't just chuck a load of expensive signings together and win the PL or CL and we (along with PSG on the CL front) are testament to this. Pochettino can undeniably build a team that a)is pretty much guaranteed to be top 4 and b)is competitive in Europe. I'm not saying he is the messiah but he's a calculated hire - I can point to a recent and relevant body of work and see what he will try to do.
Maybe I'm just a realist. How many headlines have been run about United that included the word 'rebuild'? Thousands I'd wager. How many coaches have we hired that had a recent track record of building a team? None.
Thanks for that. Wouldnt have got that without the last bit.
If you want to succeed in the long run as a WUM you really need to do better than this. The part in bold is especially poor. You come across as a ranting idiot. People won't be responding in the long-run to an incoherent loon.
Also, promoting yourself (as someone with "football insight") is only good for a couple of immediate reactions (from people who aren't already tired of your shtick - and you've been at it for some time now) - that will grow old really fast. So tone that down.
You really aren't in the best position to begin with, if we're honest: a WUM career based on this Poch thing never had much chance of success. But if you insist on pestering everyone with your efforts, at least try to come across as semi-plausible.
We have improved though. It’s a lie to say we havnt
That is exactly what we’re doing without poch
I can see that being the case. Although in that analogy, the gentleman in question would still be a very eligible bachelor (misogynistic tendencies aside) - assuming the actress's taste in men is beyond reproach.The two major job openings this summer were Juventus and Barcelona.
Juventus hired Pirlo, someone with a personal connection but is a virtual unknown as a coach. Even if the club did not rate Pochettino at all, they could have landed someone else who's world class if that's the direction they wanted to go.
Pirlo's outgoing predecessor was Sarri: not a bad coach, but clearly a bad fit in hindsight. Even at the time, people questioned his appointment because his tactical style is so at odds with the type of players the club had recently and expensively recruited.
Barcelona eventually hired Koeman, who also has a personal connection to the club. But given his mixed success at his previous jobs (he's had about ten), Barcelona clearly did not hire him as some sort of mega-coach as you say. Whether they were going for one to begin with is difficult to say, given the club's complicated off-season and its relative aversion to such appointments.
Koeman's outgoing predecessor was Setien... Well, we don't need to go into what happened there.
The point is, while Pirlo and Koeman may yet ultimately succeed, their employers have both made questionable managerial appointments recently. So their overlooking of Pochettino is hardly a damning indictment. Conversely, had one of them hired him this summer, it would not necessarily have improved my estimation of him as a coach either.
Simply that Pochettino is looking for the right opening. It has been rumored that he waiting for the City, Madrid or United job vacancy. Pochettino has turned down offers, so it is obvious that he isn’t in any rush or desperate to find another offer, as even someone like me knows that if it wasn’t for the tremendous luck our current manager has, Pochettino will be favorite to take over here.
Pochettino’s attacking philosophy, man-management and willingness to give him An opportunity was key to his development. A good article on why Pochettino was so instrumental to Kane development.
https://www.90min.com/posts/3298543...pochettino-helped-develop-harry-kane-s-skills
You must be new on here because there has been so many Amadaeus moments, that I come off more insightful than professional pundits on television. I m humble when I m proven right as well because it is something that just comes naturally for me.
Do you mean that he got offer from Juventus and Barcelona and turned it down because he is waiting for Real Madrid, ManCty and us? According to some sources nobody knows.
Makes sense, How can you ever be wrong if all you ever do is make shit up.
In his period at Spurs Leicester won the league Arsenal won the FA Cup 3 times, A united team that finished below him won the FA cup and the league cup.
Him not winning a trophy at spurs is a serious indictment on his ability as a manager.
Not that he got offers, but there were significant interest. We do know he had lunch with Barcelona president, but only those with insiders knowledge will know what happened after that. Pochettino has come out and stated that it will be a dream to coach Real Madrid and also ongoing rumors that he is waiting for the United and city vacancy, but these club will have to negotiate with levy because Pochettino isn’t particularly a free agent at the moment. Not sure if Pochettino was interested in Juventus job, he hasn’t said much about that.
improved compared to his first half a season. We haven’t improved from the team that came second under Jose.
I disagree, that second season under mourhino was patching wounds. We now seem to be building towards something
Ole got us 3rd last time. Now if Poch is not gonna take us to a better position than that, then it beats the purpose, ain't it? Making us a good attacking team wouldn't be good enough at the club.
Mourinho won the title 2 seasons before he joined us. To do that, he reinstalled Terry and got Courtois, Filipe Luis, Fabregas, Matic, Schurrle, Costa, Remy and Drogba into the club. All these guys weren’t there before he joined. To lesser extents, Moyes had built a stable Everton team and Ole had built a title-winning, albeit in the Eliteserien, Molde team (still, they hadn’t won it in ages before Ole).
There are thousands of sticks to beat Woodward and the rest of the board with, like overpaying, being unable to sell the deadwood, shocking recruitment and hiring the wrong managers. However, to say we’ve hired 0 managers since SAF with a recent track record of building a team is just wrong.
Jol and Redknapp. Jol dragged the team from properly mid-table to top 6. When people say "spurs will go back to being mid-table" they have to look back to 2005 since that was the case. Ramos won a League Cup on that back of pretty much the Jol team, but was awful in the league.
Redknapp really kicked us on and in another paradigm might have won us a few things. We had great football, great squad depth, used young players. He said spurs fans "never had it so good" but neither had he. Really ruined it for both parties when he went after an England job that wasn't on offer.
Imagine how different it'd be if Terry hadn't allegedly said some racist things.
Arguably Poch would have been sacked without Kane. Two front for this - by mid November in his first season we were shocking and sitting around 10th and 12th in the table. Kaboul and Adebayor were the captains. Allegedly Kane (and possibly Mason and a few other academy lads) was part of the squad 'revolt' that convinced Poch to drop the 'stars'. That left him with Kane and Soldado up front and Kane started to score. Up until that point Kane had only had a combined 90 mins or so in the first 10 games. He's played nearly 90 mins of every available game ever since.
I know it's pointless me correcting the key cheerleader of Pochettino, but he was playing and scoring regularly with Tim Sherwood before Poch was even at the club.
Under Sherwood he scored 3 and assisted 2 in the final 6 games of 2013/14. He was in the squad almost consistently from the point Sherwood took over from AVB.
That's when Kane became known, if not only by United fans for this:
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In addition, Kane was regularly playing and actually scored a senior goal in Europe under Redknapp. The fact is that Pochettino didn't give Kane much of a chance until he had to. He didn't make Kane, he merely coincided with him.
The scary thing is that Kane would have probably ended up in the Championship if it were for the fact that Soldado was failing miserably as a goalscorer, and Adebayor decided to throw a bit of a strop. If Sherwood survived beyond the end of 2013/14, Kane would have started the season and, inevitably (but of course conjecturally) been the same player he was under Pochettino.
Interest and offers are two different things. Eating lunch with someone doesn't necessery mean that you are interested. You, who follow football, know that meetings and dinners/lunches happens all the time without meaning anything.
You are talking about rumors.Everybody can spread rumors.
You are one of the most anti- Pochettino poster on this forum that always put up meaningless stats. Kane was never put to good use until Pochettino arrived and Pochettino philosophy and man management brought the best out of him. The article I presented and I will post another one just for you instead of writing a book, shows just that.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.essentiallysports.com/harry-kane-transformation-pochettino/amp/
During the event that was happening at the time, it would be hard to believe that dinner date was not a sign of interest.
The one thing that has me worried about Pochettino is his reliance on a certain type of player or he absolutely crumbles.
I didn't like the whole CL final where he bought Kane back from injury instead of playing Lucas as a CF after he scored a hat trick against ajax. That would have destroyed Lucas and many other players positive feeling for that game & Kane was used only for Pochettino's feeling of stability.
I cant stand managers like that. The type of managers who can only use a forward like Kane or Osvaldo for example. The same goes with some of his preference of a certain type of bulky centre midfielder. He gives me an impression of a toned down version of Jose Mourinho- which to some maybe a positive I guess.
In comparison Pep and Klopp can use strikers like Lewandowski, Aguero, Gabriel jesus but also players like Messi, Pedro, and Firmino as false 9's. They are much more flexible with their tactics and can blend their tactics and formations to fit the players at their disposal - even if they prefer a certain style of play to use all the time.
I didn't like the whole CL final where he bought Kane back from injury instead of playing Lucas as a CF after he scored a hat trick against ajax. That would have destroyed Lucas and many other players positive feeling for that game & Kane was used only for Pochettino's feeling of stability.
I cant stand managers like that. The type of managers who can only use a forward like Kane or Osvaldo for example. The same goes with some of his preference of a certain type of bulky centre midfielder. He gives me an impression of a toned down version of Jose Mourinho- which to some maybe a positive I guess.
In comparison Pep and Klopp can use strikers like Lewandowski, Aguero, Gabriel jesus but also players like Messi, Pedro, and Firmino as false 9's. They are much more flexible with their tactics and can blend their tactics and formations to fit the players at their disposal - even if they prefer a certain style of play to use all the time.
Just like recruiting players, Man Utd will only go for the next shiny big thing, that is Nagelsmann. Ancelotti, Mourinho are already past it type of manager, Pochettino and Allegri do not have a job yet so they are not good enough and nobody wants them. Conte and Simeone play defensive football so they are not good. Sarri just got sack again so he is bad as well. Other coaches are probably never manage a top team, not proven or haven't won a trophy before.
We didnt previously. How was Moyes, LVG, Mourinho or Ole a shiny new toy?
I hope your true though - I'd prefer someone new and exciting in football.
Moyes is SAF's appointed successor. LVG just did miracle with Netherlands before he joined. Mou at the time still considered by man utd fans as top coach after just won the league 2 season ago(he is still a top top coach). OGS is the only exception, but seems like he is losing the fans now too.
Just like players, only Haaland, Sancho, Upamecano are Man Utd quality. Bale, James, Thiago, Thiago Silva and Willian are shit, pass it, looking for last big contract, milk the club and avoid at all cost.
LVG was hired prior to world cup so how Holland fared in world cup had no bearing on his appointment you do realise that.
I'm sure some of Spurs performances were better without Kane.
fair enough but we aren’t really building anything jointed. We just have a bunch of good players. There’s no style, no winning comradely which resembles anything that’s going to lead to a title winning side.
Infact the longer he stays the more I can see our best players wanting out. This team’s cycle is probably two more years then we will require another rebuild. So he’s just rebuilding for the rebuild at this rate.
What’s the point
Who spells Amadeus 'Amadaeus'?!
that maybe all true, but Poch coming in changes nothing, he’s not a miracle work and will also have his share of problems if he came here and I’d see it ending in a meltdown similar to spurs
What I wrote still applies. What has Ole won so far? Poc did what he did without any kind of major investment. He should be lauded for what he did with that squad and the money he was allowed to spend. I bet if you look closely, all 3 clubs you mentioned outspent Spurs. Anyway, if money was the sole reason, United should be running away with the league tile instead of a team like Leicester. It has a lot to do with coaching.
No, it's a different rule for Spurs. They don't win shite for a so-called "top team". Just pointing out the obvious, no matter who is coaching them.
Wow, that's a lot to be proud of since you pointed that out. Barely scraping into the top 4 while losing multiple games to relegation fodders.
No manager in the world would have got us any higher than 3rd. None. Liverpool and City are just way too far ahead with 2 of the best managers the game has ever seen.
Ole has done a good job since taking over in incredibly difficult circumstances. The club is broken at the top. Poch isn't coming in and doing any better.