A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[Chief123]

Personally I’d say the United way is 442 and flying wingers as that’s what I grew up with. Guess each person has their own view of it But I wouldn’t go after a manager because he plays this supposed United way.

But no top team plays 442 anymore and it’s for a good reason. Modern football changed just after the 90’s where teams especially in Europe were dominating midfield areas and killing teams on the counter attack whenever a team played a 442. Teams have all resorted to a safer approach in midfield to retain more control in midfield.

The only team I’ve seen successfully deploy the 442 in the last decade is Leciester who had a complete freak in midfield who was the equivalent of two players in Kante.

 

[gajender]

You mean early days Mourinho at United, right? Or do you mean Mourinho from 2004 - 2010? That Mourinho was more or less invincible and no way is Poch anything close to that. And I include playing style as well, Mourinho until 2010 kept it tight at the back but everyone and his dog knew he would win the game in the end 99% - 100%. That alone made the games worth watching even if it was boring.
Of course he had better players than Poch but still.

Mourinho 2004-2010 ,Pochetinno's approach is kind of similar just without nothing to show for it.

 

[Skills]

I don’t see any way how Ole stays till the end of the season. I was actually an Ole in person because the team was showing progress in terms of league finish and recruitment to an extent.

But I’ll be seriously shocked if he’s still manager after the next 7 games. Simply because of our form being so bad, I just can’t see a run of wins against Everton, Chelsea, Arsenal and PSG. Our defence looks a shambles and there’s nothing we can do to change them until another window.

Gary Neville. The club/board are going to be too afraid of the backlash.

He kept Moyes and Phil Neville in a job for almost an entire season. He even kept Mourinho on for another 2 months and that's about as toxic as it could've got.

 

[Skills]

But no top team plays 442 anymore and it’s for a good reason. Modern football changed just after the 90’s where teams especially in Europe were dominating midfield areas and killing teams on the counter attack whenever a team played a 442. Teams have all resorted to a safer approach in midfield to retain more control in midfield.

The only team I’ve seen successfully deploy the 442 in the last decade is Leciester who had a complete freak in midfield who was the equivalent of two players in Kante.

And Atletico too. But that was a flat midfield 4 rather than wingers. Madrid under Ancelotti did it too with Isco and James again in a flat midfield 4.

 

[padzilla]

Ole seems to be only successful in streaks when they get an unbelievable run together and put everyone to the sword but then they have an equally bad streak where everything seems to go wrong and we look inept. The issue has to be consistency if Ole's going to turn it around. Our top level is fantastic but the issue is when we are not in the mood then we appear to be a complete shambles.

 

[gajender]

Yeah people have wanked themselves silly over the idea he plays great football when it's far from the truth. His football is effective but it's workmanlike and boring.

I'd stay away personally and go for one of the German hipsters.

I think United for once need to be braver and leave conservatism while hiring Manager no more obvious appointments like we have done in past since Sir Alex . Bring somebody who can bring back excitement at United it's about time.

 

[#07]

Personally I feel we should target someone who has a defined footballing ideology which involves 'attacking football', high pressure, fast transitions and for that I wouldn't look past Marco Rose or Julien Nagelsmann.

How do you achieve that with the current United squad? Look at the options we have, particularly defensively, and their lack of mobility and pace. You can probably achieve it with our players at the top end but a direct ball over the top takes them entirely out of the game. Then you're relying on Shaw, Lindelof and Maguire to have recovery pace the don't have. Even Wan-Bissaka is not that fast. You can only play pressing football if you keep your team compact and if you're compact that means your defensive line has to be high up. With our defensive options that's kamikaze.

As I've said elsewhere on this site, when Klopp came into Liverpool he had players like Mingolet, Clyne, Enrique, Moreno, Sahko, Skrtel, Lovren, Lucas, Allen, Lallana, Ibe, Benteke, Sturridge. He's replaced pretty much that entire squad, including players like Karius, Lovren and Klaven that he brought in and later decided couldn't do what he needed. No manager gets that freedom at United. Instead players are allowed to sit on long contracts while the club chases 'value' for them that doesn't exist. If Liverpool took the same attitude as United the likes of Karius would still be at Liverpool, while the owners waited for someone to offer £20m for a player nobody rates.

That's why I don't really care about a new manager. I don't see what can be done with our lopsided, Frankenstein squad.

 

[Skills]

I think United for once need to be braver and leave conservatism while hiring Manager no more obvious appointments like we have done in past since Sir Alex . Bring somebody who can bring back excitement at United it's about time.

I agree. There's going to be kids growing up born in the last decade who've grown up knowing Manchester United to be the club who plays the most boring football out of any of the big european clubs (along with maybe Juventus). We need to reverse that damage.

Hiring pochettino is only going to cement our reputation as the club who plays inferior football to Man City and Liverpool in England.

 

[Zlatan 7]

But no top team plays 442 anymore and it’s for a good reason. Modern football changed just after the 90’s where teams especially in Europe were dominating midfield areas and killing teams on the counter attack whenever a team played a 442. Teams have all resorted to a safer approach in midfield to retain more control in midfield.

The only team I’ve seen successfully deploy the 442 in the last decade is Leciester who had a complete freak in midfield who was the equivalent of two players in Kante.

I Agree it’s not used as much anymore and seems dated, that’s why I said I wouldn’t go after a manager for a united style of play especially when I think that way is 442.

although I really do love a 442, that’s a proper set out football team to me

I would ideally like a young progressive manager who will take risks and play an expressive kind of football, not someone who is defensively minded And relied on hard work and cuntery. I don’t think we’re in the position to take that gamble at the moment though so the boring Poch way may be what we need

 

[man united 4eva]

I'd prefer to see Nagelsmann's style of football to that of Pochettino's... however i'm not so sure that we currently have the right type of players to play in the correct positions in a 3-4-3 formation that Nagelsmann favours.

 

[HowYouDoin]

I dont know why United fans are so apprehensive about changing a manager
Oh wait I guess I do know, we were spoiled by having Sir Alex for so many years but that wasnt normal or typical. It was extremely unique. Teams fire their managers all the time. If we were any other big team Ole would have been gone already.
Is Pochettino better than Ole? By a mile.
Does he know the league well? Yup.
I mean to me its just such an obvious appointment and sometimes you shouldnt be too clever, just do the obvious thing.

Poch already has th experience of reaching the CL finals so lets put it this way, hes at the same point now that Klopp was before Liverpool.

Its just too obvious and we shouldnt waste too much time. We should get this done ASAP.
Ole just isnt a Premier League manager. No Premier League team will ever hire him again. He was a great player but way out of his depth as a manager. He is just nice to players, thats his only quality, I guess you can say a part of his man management. He offers nothing else though. Probably will manage in Norway again.
We should ask ourseleves why are we keeping the manager that we know no other team would conside appointing anymore? You get a quality manager instead thats a massive improvement.

 

[Skills]

I Agree it’s not used as much anymore and seems dated, that’s why I said I wouldn’t go after a manager for a united style of play especially when I think that way is 442.

although I really do love a 442, that’s a proper set out football team to me

I would ideally like a young progressive manager who will take risks and play an expressive kind of football, not someone who is defensively minded And relied on hard work and cuntery. I don’t think we’re in the position to take that gamble at the moment though so the voting Poch way may be what we need

Problem is, I think Poch is a bit too good to ever be as bad as the likes of Ole, Moyes and Van Gaal and not enough of a twat to sabotage the club like Mourinho.

And as long as a manager keeps getting top 4, we'll never move on from a manager. The fans would never want that to happen and the board are too scared to sack managers who don't even look on track to achieve the bare minimum.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Have there been many bigger clubs that have changed their manager in the past year?

He’s now been out of a job nearly a year? That doesn’t paint a great picture.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Have there been many bigger clubs that have changed their manager in the past year?

He’s now been out of a job nearly a year? That doesn’t paint a great picture.

Who's to say he hasn't rejected jobs? Plenty of top manager's have taken year-long sabbaticals. Don't forget that top manager's are paid much more handsomely than in the past, therefore, there's no necessity (like there used to be) to jump right into another high-pressured job. Wouldn't surprise me that he's taking time off because because he can take time off.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Have there been many bigger clubs that have changed their manager in the past year?

He’s now been out of a job nearly a year? That doesn’t paint a great picture.

Allegri is still out of a job

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Who's to say he hasn't rejected jobs? Plenty of top manager's have taken year-long sabbaticals. Don't forget that top manager's are paid much more handsomely than in the past, therefore, there's no necessity (like there used to be) to jump right into another high-pressured job. Wouldn't surprise me that he's taking time off because because he can take time off.

Most managers who take significant planned time off, do say that they are doing so in advance.

 

[soapythecat]

Poch isn’t the man for me. I think he fits the Bill for Woodward and the Glazers with this record of producing good teams on a shoe string, but will he take us to the next step - I’m not sure.
If we were to bring in a manager who hasn’t won anything/much, then I’d much rather it be one who has a attacking, proven style of football. We have to move away from this ‘United Way’ approach and move with the times.

 

[macheda14]

Poch isn’t the man for me. I think he fits the Bill for Woodward and the Glazers with this record of producing good teams on a shoe string, but will he take us to the next step - I’m not sure.
If we were to bring in a manager who hasn’t won anything/much, then I’d much rather it be one who has a attacking, proven style of football. We have to move away from this ‘United Way’ approach and move with the times.

I mean the United way is purely fast attacking football with a team flush with young/academy players

 

[soapythecat]

I mean the United way is purely fast attacking football with a team flush with young/academy players

Maybe....it’s been a while since we last witnessed it. Either way, Ole could do with a reminder of what it actually is given it’s his style (apparently).
I’ve alway considered the United Way as hitting teams on the break with pace. Leicester are a good example of how I see it currently.

 

[Kaos]

Poch isn’t the man for me. I think he fits the Bill for Woodward and the Glazers with this record of producing good teams on a shoe string, but will he take us to the next step - I’m not sure.
If we were to bring in a manager who hasn’t won anything/much, then I’d much rather it be one who has a attacking, proven style of football. We have to move away from this ‘United Way’ approach and move with the times.

Depends how you define 'the next step'. As things stand, being able to comfortably beat weaker teams and consistently make top 4 would be pretty big progress for us.

Unless you're expecting someone to make us title challengers, unfortunately no manager in the world has a chance of doing that with us, not with our squad nor our board.

 

[macheda14]

Maybe....it’s been a while since we last witnessed it. Either way, Ole could do with a reminder of what it actually is given it’s his style (apparently).
I’ve alway considered the United Way as hitting teams on the break with pace. Leicester are a good example of how I see it currently.

I mean apart from the post Bruno transfer-Southampton game period. It’s been a while.

 

[united_99]

Have there been many bigger clubs that have changed their manager in the past year?

He’s now been out of a job nearly a year? That doesn’t paint a great picture.

He and his fans think he is Pep Guardiola who can wait for the perfect project to come.
No idea what he is waiting for (if at all, it is equally likely that he got rejected by big clubs so far), there will be risks everywhere he goes:

United:
Good run, new manager effect and then the real challenge (pressure, our board, boring games, bad results, transfers, ...) starts

Chelsea:
Roman won’t hesitate to sack him after a few bad results

Arsenal:
Similar challenge as at United

PSG:
Everyone wins the league there so he needs to win the CL and their superstars need to buy into his ideas. He will be forced to adapt more than Neymar or Mbappe will be.

I do think he will come to us sooner or later but we won’t be the ideal job for him, neither will he be the ideal candidate for us. But every club needs a change if results continue to be bad.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Problem is, I think Poch is a bit too good to ever be as bad as the likes of Ole, Moyes and Van Gaal and not enough of a twat to sabotage the club like Mourinho.

And as long as a manager keeps getting top 4, we'll never move on from a manager. The fans would never want that to happen and the board are too scared to sack managers who don't even look on track to achieve the bare minimum.

I definitely agree with this and the club would settle for Poch just getting top four, that’s why I’d initially want him, just to stabilise the club untill we got a winner who could take Us to that next level, but then that’s why I liked ole and I think he did a good job of Stabilising the club and getting it back on track, if anything I think the summer just gone would have been a good time to replace him as I can see this season going tits up, not with Poch though, I just don’t see him as a winner, hell just be good to come in and be yet another stabiliser

 

[Zlatan 7]

I mean the United way is purely fast attacking football with a team flush with young/academy players

Well that’s not Poch

 

[Adnan]

How do you achieve that with the current United squad? Look at the options we have, particularly defensively, and their lack of mobility and pace. You can probably achieve it with our players at the top end but a direct ball over the top takes them entirely out of the game. Then you're relying on Shaw, Lindelof and Maguire to have recovery pace the don't have. Even Wan-Bissaka is not that fast. You can only play pressing football if you keep your team compact and if you're compact that means your defensive line has to be high up. With our defensive options that's kamikaze.

As I've said elsewhere on this site, when Klopp came into Liverpool he had players like Mingolet, Clyne, Enrique, Moreno, Sahko, Skrtel, Lovren, Lucas, Allen, Lallana, Ibe, Benteke, Sturridge. He's replaced pretty much that entire squad, including players like Karius, Lovren and Klaven that he brought in and later decided couldn't do what he needed. No manager gets that freedom at United. Instead players are allowed to sit on long contracts while the club chases 'value' for them that doesn't exist. If Liverpool took the same attitude as United the likes of Karius would still be at Liverpool, while the owners waited for someone to offer £20m for a player nobody rates.

That's why I don't really care about a new manager. I don't see what can be done with our lopsided, Frankenstein squad.

I have to respectfully disagree with you and will explain as to why below.

Our squad has players that can help implement high pressure but we have to first accept that Maguire and AWB were the wrong signings. The biggest issue in our team is that we can't maintain a defensive balance on the turn over against teams who are adept at transioning play quickly. The likes of Maguire and Lindelof in tandem cannot defend 1v1 high up the pitch which means we can't enforce the press. Then we also have Matic who will get destroyed high up the pitch in 1v1s because he's too slow and we end up playing deep block counter attacking football which suits them and the likes of AWB and McTominay. So below i'll explain what I feel Rose or Nagelmann would do to get the engine revving as far as implementing high pressure and transitioning play quickly.

The selected coach out of the two would be given money to spend and I believe they would target players for the DM role and the CB role. So let's pick one player from both Gladbach and RB Leipzig who are currently coached by the men in question. Denis Zakaria would come in as the midfield enforcer and Ibrahima Konate as the CB which would mean Matic and Maguire would be out and it will allow us to play high up the pitch and maintain a high line because both Zakaria and Konate are capable of dominating their defensive zones and enforcing high pressure.

I don't believe either coach would play Pogba in a double pivot so IMO, I see Zakaria and VdB in a double pivot and both are also high energy players which greatly helps with implementing high pressure. Bruno would play as the most advanced midfielder because he's a player that suits a team that wants to transition quickly and is also very adept at pressing from the front. Either Bailly, Axel or Mengi would partner Konate at CB. Both coaches can also make players punch above their weight with their work on the training ground which should be noted.

The only thing left now is who takes up the position at RB and I believe Ethan Laird would be given that opportunity if he can stay injury free. Both coaches require their fullbacks to help in the build up phase and provide width and Laird has the ability to do that.

This team would then have the players who are capable of implenting/resisting high pressure and play a high tempo game which would see us knocking on the door and with a few additional tweaks we would knock the door down IMO.

 

[macheda14]

He and his fans think he is Pep Guardiola who can wait for the perfect project to come.
No idea what he is waiting for (if at all, it is equally likely that he got rejected by big clubs so far), there will be risks everywhere he goes:

United:
Good run, new manager effect and then the real challenge (pressure, our board, boring games, bad results, transfers, ...) starts

Chelsea:
Roman won’t hesitate to sack him after a few bad results

Arsenal:
Similar challenge as at United

PSG:
Everyone wins the league there so he needs to win the CL and their superstars need to buy into his ideas. He will be forced to adapt more than Neymar or Mbappe will be.

I do think he will come to us sooner or later but we won’t be the ideal job for him, neither will he be the ideal candidate for us. But every club needs a change if results continue to be bad.

He’s waiting for a top club. If he goes to a smaller club then he may never get another opportunity, you never know how your tenure at a smaller club can go.

 

[Fergie's Man]

Bielsa before Poch for me.

 

[Stretender]

Maybe....it’s been a while since we last witnessed it. Either way, Ole could do with a reminder of what it actually is given it’s his style (apparently).
I’ve alway considered the United Way as hitting teams on the break with pace. Leicester are a good example of how I see it currently.

There is no such thing as the United way in as far as playing style is concerned. Its just a myth created by romantics.

There was the Fergie way which was all about winning football with the best players. Pretty much every team during that time played 4-4-2 in the league. Fergie did not play differently.

I think the United way is believing in youth and giving them a chance to play for United which is a very rare thing amongst top teams in Europe.

 

[#07]

I have to respectfully disagree with you and will explain as to why below.

Our squad has players that can help implement high pressure but we have to first accept that Maguire and AWB were the wrong signings. The biggest issue in our team is that we can't maintain a defensive balance on the turn over against teams who are adept at transioning play quickly. The likes of Maguire and Lindelof in tandem cannot defend 1v1 high up the pitch which means we can't enforce the press. Then we also have Matic who will get destroyed high up the pitch in 1v1s because he's too slow and we end up playing deep block counter attacking football which suits them and the likes of AWB and McTominay. So below i'll explain what I feel Rose or Nagelmann would do to get the engine revving as far as implementing high pressure and transitioning play quickly.

The selected coach out of the two would be given money to spend and I believe they would target players for the DM role and the CB role. So let's pick one player from both Gladbach and RB Leipzig who are currently coached by the men in question. Denis Zakaria would come in as the midfield enforcer and Ibrahima Konate as the CB which would mean Matic and Maguire would be out and it will allow us to play high up the pitch and maintain a high line because both Zakaria and Konate are capable of dominating their defensive zones and enforcing high pressure.

I don't believe either coach would play Pogba in a double pivot so IMO, I see Zakaria and VdB in a double pivot and both are also high energy players which greatly helps with implementing high pressure. Bruno would play as the most advanced midfielder because he's a player that suits a team that wants to transition quickly and is also very adept at pressing from the front. Either Bailly, Axel or Mengi would partner Konate at CB. Both coaches can also make players punch above their weight with their work on the training ground which should be noted.

The only thing left now is who takes up the position at RB and I believe Ethan Laird would be given that opportunity if he can stay injury free. Both coaches require their fullbacks to help in the build up phase and provide width and Laird has the ability to do that.

This team would then have the players who are capable of implenting/resisting high pressure and play a high tempo game which would see us knocking on the door and with a few additional tweaks we would knock the door down IMO.

So basically you are agreeing with me. This squad cannot play the way you are outlining and the club will have to buy players to do so.

So now you are relying on the ability of the club to get the players that the coach wants. What gives you the confidence that will happen based on the past seven years?

I agree with everything you say about Matic and McTominay. Both however just got new contracts. Do you think there is a high likelihood of them being replaced, given that the new contracts awarded to certain United centre backs is apparently why we didn't compete for Upamecano?

Ultimately, as I said in my previous post, unless any coach at United is able to recycle out a large number of players and buy in more mobile, more technical replacements the club will not go forward.

It's possible that the likes of Tuanzebe and Mengi will develop and allow for it in a blue sky scenario. However, then you are basically gambling on fitness. Any injuries and the whole thing comes undone.

 

[matherto]

Ole seems to be only successful in streaks when they get an unbelievable run together and put everyone to the sword but then they have an equally bad streak where everything seems to go wrong and we look inept. The issue has to be consistency if Ole's going to turn it around. Our top level is fantastic but the issue is when we are not in the mood then we appear to be a complete shambles.

So, exactly like Spurs under Pochettino then?

 

[André Dominguez]

But no top team plays 442 anymore and it’s for a good reason. Modern football changed just after the 90’s where teams especially in Europe were dominating midfield areas and killing teams on the counter attack whenever a team played a 442. Teams have all resorted to a safer approach in midfield to retain more control in midfield.

The only team I’ve seen successfully deploy the 442 in the last decade is Leciester who had a complete freak in midfield who was the equivalent of two players in Kante.

If you mean classic 442 two strikers, then yes. Top teams still use 442ish systems, but this is used with a lot of midfield-forward dynamics in order to have numbers in possession and defending, usually having two versatile forwards (PSG and Real Madrid use this variation a lot) or having a midfield-forward hybrid + a striker as Atletico uses it.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Personally I’d say the United way is 442 and flying wingers as that’s what I grew up with. Guess each person has their own view of it But I wouldn’t go after a manager because he plays this supposed United way.

This is the United way I know about. 442 with giggs and beckham on the wings cross the ball to the box without attacking full back.

 

[Adnan]

So basically you are agreeing with me. This squad cannot play the way you are outlining and the club will have to buy players to do so.

So now you are relying on the ability of the club to get the players that the coach wants. What gives you the confidence that will happen based on the past seven years?

I agree with everything you say about Matic and McTominay. Both however just got new contracts. Do you think there is a high likelihood of them being replaced, given that the new contracts awarded to certain United centre backs is apparently why we didn't compete for Upamecano?

Ultimately, as I said in my previous post, unless any coach at United is able to recycle out a large number of players and buy in more mobile, more technical replacements the club will not go forward.

It's possible that the likes of Tuanzebe and Mengi will develop and allow for it in a blue sky scenario. However, then you are basically gambling on fitness. Any injuries and the whole thing comes undone.

I disagree that we don't have the players to implement the high press with our current options because i'm forming that opinion in view of the new coach having money to spend which requires two additions to the team IMO which is realistic. Only 'two players' and i've demonstrated as to how that will be done IMO and with which players.


I'm confident if Rose and Nagelsmann were given the job they'd target players who would be attainable for the club without breaking the bank.

We have to be careful we don't let go of too many players in midfield and weaken ourselves. So if we brought someone in as the midfield enforcer then we can allow Matic to leave and there's a few clubs in Italy amongst others who are reported to be interested.


Regarding injuries, we cross that bridge when we come to it. Until then we'll have more than Axel and Mengi to enforce the press and implement fast transitions. Let's get the ball rolling first.

 

[Adnan]

This is the United way I know about. 442 with giggs and beckham on the wings cross the ball to the box without attacking full back.

4-4-2 was a system and not a play style. The 'United way' was playing high tempo football with fast transitions from Busby to Fergie.

 

[Revaulx]

I just can't get excited about him at all. 100% believe he's a better manager than Ole, would do a better job, but I feel so little for him, to be fair if he comes in and makes us good I'm sure I'd warm to him. He doesn't strike me as having the character to manage us, but I'm sure we'll see.

I like him and think he’s an excellent coach, but I worry about this as well. I just can’t see him being able to manage Ed and the Glazers, which is the most important challenge any new United manager will face.

 

[Denis' cuff]

Problem is, I think Poch is a bit too good to ever be as bad as the likes of Ole, Moyes and Van Gaal and not enough of a twat to sabotage the club like Mourinho.

And as long as a manager keeps getting top 4, we'll never move on from a manager. The fans would never want that to happen and the board are too scared to sack managers who don't even look on track to achieve the bare minimum.

the club sabotaged Mourinho... and LVG, and Ole, and Fergie for that matter.

 

[macheda14]

the club sabotaged Mourinho... and LVG, and Ole, and Fergie for that matter.

Well steady on. Under Jose Martial, Rashford and Pogba all wanted to leave, all reports have said that the atmosphere was toxic. If your club don’t support you with the signings you want you shouldn’t create a toxic atmosphere for the players under you. I do agree they didn’t back him, but he was also a big ol wally.

 

[starman]

People keep saying he would do a better job than Ole, but does that actually looklike, statically?

 

[Loon]

Nagelsmann has denied Real Madrid after Zidane left. What make you think he will come here?

I don’t know if he’ll come to United, but if he has a good season, a very serious look and offer should be considered. If you don’t buy a ticket...

 

[RedDevil@84]

I just can't get excited about him at all. 100% believe he's a better manager than Ole, would do a better job, but I feel so little for him, to be fair if he comes in and makes us good I'm sure I'd warm to him. He doesn't strike me as having the character to manage us, but I'm sure we'll see.

This for me too.
He is somewhere above Ole, but below than the top managers. I think we will see some highs before beginning to go into a downward spiral again.
I maybe totally wrong, but lets see.