Cassidy
No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2013
- Messages
- 31,440
Wonder why
Yup, and maybe because Ole hasn't had much time in the CL because hes only had 18 months at a top European club.
Wonder why
Yup, and maybe because Ole hasn't had much time in the CL because hes only had 18 months at a top European club.
I mean, I just... He's trying to make a point but is serving to reaffirm that Ole just isn't top level. I don't think he can see it thoughWonder why
Still you didn't show me where I mentioned your master OGS in my post!
Also do you agree that just as we should deduct Kane's performance from Pochettino's achievements, Martial and perhaps Rashfords goals should be taken away to judge OGS actual record?
And still didn't answer the most important question of all. Who would hire OGS if he is fired now.
Head in sand. Keep it buried that way. Will prevent you from spouting nonsense. Dumdum.
Why wasnt Flick managing at a top club before Bayern? Why was he only the bridesmaid before than?Wonder why
And yet you have said you have followed the conversation, clearly a lie, I have never claimed Ole to be top levelI mean, I just... He's trying to make a point but is serving to reaffirm that Ole just isn't top level. I don't think he can see it though
Almost like this whole threadDue to the level of one sided, propaganda, agenda driven bullshit in the tweet, I'll give the thread a miss.
Errrr what? I never said you did? You are trying to make a point re Ole, but instead you're actually reaffirming that he was never highly thought of, which is why no one ever went for him after Cardiff. We hired him based on nepotism and his ties with the club and certainly not his managerial credentials.And yet you have said you have followed the conversation, clearly a lie, I have never claimed Ole to be top level
At least you acknowledge the tweet was a load of old tosh.Almost like this whole thread
the big point you miss here is that for any other club he didn’t spend a decade playing for one of the greatest managers that ever lived, and didn’t manage their reserve side.Errrr what? I never said you did? You are trying to make a point re Ole, but instead you're actually reaffirming that he was never highly thought of, which is why no one ever went for him after Cardiff. We hired him based on nepotism and his ties with the club and certainly not his managerial credentials.
Meanwhile, Poch made a positive name for himself around Europe and ended up at Spurs after doing well at Espanyol and Spurs. He was also courted by several really elite sides and made it to the CL Final with Spurs. All the while, Ole slugged it out in Norway and would still be there were it not for our badly run club.
Yet, you don't see him as a big step up from Ole and crazily ask why he hasn't won anything while saying Ole has won something. You ignore all context to why that is, and bizarrely- to strengthen your case but actually weakened it - you say Poch has longevity over Ole. When it's pointed out to you that they've been managing for pretty much the same amount of time, you argue that Ole has had less time at a top club. I mean, surely you can see you're having a mare here. Why is it that Ole spent so much time in Norway while Poch was making a real name for himself as a manger? The answer is pretty obvious.
I'm not even a Poch 'fan' per se and never engage in discussion about him but you are talking all kinds of nonsense in here. He's evidently a far more talented manager than Ole. Ask any neutral who they would rather have and your answer would be damning. Is he the right man for us? I have no idea but he's a massive upgrade on what we have.
Lampard was managing in the Championship and doing a good job at Derby. Chances are, he would have made his way up to the PL one way or another. Yes, no one, at that point bar Chelsea would have taken a punt but he had been managing one year at that stage.the big point you miss here is that for any other club he didn’t spend a decade playing for one of the greatest managers that ever lived, and didn’t manage their reserve side.
In the same way, no other PL Club would be interested in Frank Lampard.
look I’m trying to stay out of this argument, as it’s pretty reductive.Lampard was managing in the Championship and doing a good job at Derby. Chances are, he would have made his way up to the PL one way or another. Yes, no one, at that point bar Chelsea would have taken a punt but he had been managing one year at that stage.
The point is that if Ole was a good enough manager, someone in his 7/8 year management career prior to joining us would have snapped him up. Had he walked straight in as a first venture into management like Pirlo, then that's a different story. But Ole has now been in club management for over a decade. He's not a novice.
But I think a manger should be judged based on their time spent managing. The club connections thing really only applies if it's a novice taking over a big club they have connections to like Pep, Pirlo, Zidane etc.look I’m trying to stay out of this argument, as it’s pretty reductive.
the point I was making is that some managers clearly have a bigger attachment to a club. Lampard, OGS etc. Thus using the argument that no other PL team would be interested has flaws.
anyway. We don’t have to slag off either OGS or Poch just to make the point that we prefer the other one.
Didnt know Ole was an assistant for all these years. RiiiggghhhhtttWhy wasnt Flick managing at a top club before Bayern? Why was he only the bridesmaid before than?
Ole has enough quality in his squad as it stands to have them perform better than the shite we've seen the opening 3 fixtures.He's worth considering, but it's honestly a shame that we're seeing snippets in the press etc. about potential new managers so soon after what frankly was an abysmal transfer market showing by the higher ups
And so on and so on until we get a really good manager."Louis Van GaalJose MourinhoPochettino is waiting for the “right project that will allow him to fully utilise his experience and abilities on the big stage”.
Let's forget all other context. Imagine if this was Poch/anyone else:Tweet
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Great Thread
Ok Anna Neville we hold your opinion as high as that of Gary. Who is this person and why should we care about what she has to say? you could flip it around if it was another manager and he's spent this much and his team started the season this badly, people will question him rather than praising him. It's all about context I suppose.Tweet
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Great Thread
Who is this? The Undertaker coming back from India?On a far smaller budget (compared to United) - both for wages and transfer fees - Poch accomplished at Spurs things which Ole is very unlikely to ever do: finish 2nd in the Prem, take his team to a CL final and finish in the top 4 in four consecutive seasons.
He has vastly more experience as a manager than Ole ... and it shows. Ole just passively sits in the dugout, even when his team is being taken apart at the seams. He shows very little fight or energy - so it's hardly surprising when his players follow his example.
I think some of you might not understand what we'd be getting with Pochettino and that isn't trophies. 3 away wins in 28 with Tottenham, three. Let that sink in, THREE.I'm sorry, but your post below states the following:
Yet i've just shown you clear proof that when it came to the big games when tactics really do matter. Pochettino was shit, like super, super shit. Winning 3 games in 5 and a half seasons. You can't state a Manager is tactically superior when the stats clearly suggest the opposite. I'm pretty sure if you checked David Moyes record against the top 6 at Everton, he would be able to match 3 away wins.
Stats - Top 6 League Away Games Pochettino Ole Games 28 7 Goals Scored 31 6 Goals Conceded 53 8 Clean Sheets 1 2 Wins 3 3 Draws 9 1 Losses 16 3 Win % 10.7% 42.9% Draw % 32.1% 14.3% Loss % 57.1% 42.9% Goals Per Game 1.1 0.9 Goals Conceded Per Game 1.9 1.1
Here's the total record of the Top 6 League Games as well in case you're interested:
Stats - Top 6 League Games Pochettino Ole Games 53 15 Goals Scored 70 17 Goals Conceded 78 14 Clean Sheets 10 5 Wins 15 6 Draws 15 5 Losses 23 4 Win % 28.3% 40.0% Draw % 28.3% 33.3% Loss % 43.4% 26.7% Goals Per Game 1.3 1.1 Goals Conceded Per Game 1.5 0.9
Pochettino was able to build a very good squad to take on poor teams, but failed epicly against the big boys when it truly mattered. Which is probably why he won sweet feck all.
Nailed it with the 30000000% part.I mean I agree that Poch isn't the best candidate around but you're kidding if you don't think strategically and team building wise he isn't like 300000000% better than Ole.
feck sentiment. He should put himself aside for the betterment of our club.Tweet
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I have seen some shit posting and shit posters over the last decade on the Caf. But you take the cake. Cultists like you are what is ailing the fanbase at the moment. Hope you can someday get rid of your blind hatred, irrespective of whether Pochettino or any other top coach manages us. But for now keep supporting your idol like the cultist you are. See if that saves his bacon. Find a thread where you can brown-nose him properly. And maybe feck off with him when United do get a new manager. Lunatic. Ignored.
You really do get hurt when Poch is questioned.
The conversation was about comparing Poch with Ole and then you entered it...
Jose and a lot of fans wanted to get rid of Martial, people also entertained the idea with Rashford..Ole rejuvenated them, Kane always been on a upward trajectory since he entered the first team..
Ole has a job, Poch doesnt, there's been plenty available from top clubs yet he hasn't been picked up, maybe chairman of them don't see him as the all seeing, all conquering god you make him out to be.
Keep a lid on your fanboyism and net spend rubbish, hopefully your idol gets a job soon (not at United) and you can enjoy watching the likes of Janssen, Njie and Stambouli
Shocking stats indeed which probably why he's been bottling his chances when he can actually win it. Pochettino tactic seems to be one only which is high press with attacking full back, he can apply that system into different formation but he lacks of other plan which often exploit by opposition top team in crucial match.Just requoting this:
I think some of you might not understand what we'd be getting with Pochettino and that isn't trophies. 3 away wins in 28 with Tottenham, three. Let that sink in, THREE.
Agreed. Time to move onfor real but we all know EdObviously he is a better coach than Ole, knows the league, and will probably make us more cohesive and solid unit but I'm not convinced he is the guy to bring us back to competing for the top honours.
Would love us to be brave and go for an emerging manager like Nagelsman but not holding my breath.
There are an abundant of other posts with substance explaining how Poch is clearly a better coach than Ole. To even need an explanation to this is incredible. Well, you’re entitled to your own opinion I guess.Imagine being one of these posters that think their opinion is a fact. If thats you, yes, that is where the debate end, if not you can actually post something of substance to add weight to your point.
He is a better manager in every single regard and certainly in the most important one of all: track record. It tailed off for a calendar year at Spurs -a time period that includes a CL final- but up until then and at each club he has worked at he has achieved increasing levels of success. He has huge self belief that will communicate itself to the players in a way, unfortunately, that Ole can't. And he is youngish and -based on his nearly man-ness- surely very hungry to go all the way. There's no debate between Poch and Ole, there is only a debate between Poch and whether people have the stomach to endure the managerial spin of the dice one more time.Surprised anyone could make an argument that Ole is a better on the field manager than Poch. He clearly isn’t.
Poch is a much better tactician and plays better football. That doesn’t however mean he’d do any better at United than Ole as there are intangibles involved.
A squad full of prima-Donna’s who think they are gods gift and being massively overpaid. Ole at least has club clout and an innate respect which you’d think would translate into forward progress off the field or on. End of last season was an example, while so far this season is a counter.
Put them both in charge of an identical 11 and play each other I’m certain poch would win 8 times out of 10.
But rebuilding the culture of the club and restructuring the wage budget are massive things for United at the moment and I think that should take precedence.
Personally I wouldn’t mind finishing 7th the next two years if it meant we changed how we operated, getting rid of massive wages and deadwood and stopped paying shite mid table tier players 100+k a week so we can never sell them for a decent fee.
Football is a very simple game. Get the right manager in like Klopp when Liverpool did and Woodward would be considered a genius now. We have spent more than Liverpool since Klopp got there. Imagine Klopp with even more money.It's laughable even after 7 years of experience, our fans see XYZ manager as the saviour of the club. It was the same with Jose Mourinho and before him, LVG, with post-facto rationalisation to explain why they failed and XYZ would succeed.
The fact is we have had exactly the same problems across 4 managers with wildly different philosophies. It's time to look at the common factor, i.e. , Woodword. Superior manager or not, I have no confidence Poch would be able to change anything here.
Probably has a lot to do with the fact that Ole's oldest kid is the same age as Poch's youngest.Are you serious? La Liga/PL vs the Norwegian league. Like...
Sure we can hire Neill Lennon. He's won a shit tonne and obviously context doesn't apply. There's a reason Ole has spent the majority of his managerial career in Norway.
Nothing to do with bombing at Cardiff thenProbably has a lot to do with the fact that Ole's oldest kid is the same age as Poch's youngest.
Ole's youngest is 10-11 now, and it makes sense to me that he wanted his kids to have a foundational upbringing in the same area as he and his wife did. Growing up close to their family etc.
Especially because he could also combine it with a job in the area that was interesting enough (Molde) and he could develop his managerial talents/experience, while having the option to go abroad again later if he wanted to when the kids got older.
I'm not saying that Ole is necessarily better than Poch, but I'm not convinced that he is worse either. If Ole got fired tomorrow I wouldn't feel real excited about the prospect of hiring Poch, but I would of course support him to do well if we did.
My opinion is that I think Ole has taken the club in a positive direction since joining, and I've felt proper excited about watching our games again.
The performance in the new season now has been troubling, but I don't think it's time to fire Ole just yet. I think he deserves more time with the results so far. Time will tell if he is up for the task or not.
I just take offense to those using his extended stay in Norway as proof that he couldn't work elsewhere. His family made sacrifices for him his entire career, it was only fair that he returned the favor while his kids were young after his time at United had run its course.