Top 3? What does top 3 even mean now that we have automatic qualification for 4th place?
A Uefa Conference league title or a League cup?
- Thread starter tentan
- Start date
winning the league cup qualifies you for the conference league, mate.
That's true.
Although, while they regressed in terms of league position, they won a very rare trophy and with it gained the EL place they'd have got for finishing as high as 5th or 6th in the league. So regression in terms of more league defeats to sit through, but the huge high of a rare cup win and EL qualification achieved. So regression mixed with progress.
A part of me wants United to win the European Conference League so we can say we really won the lot...
Then I remind myself it's just a shinier, long-winded, pimped up version of the inter-toto cup.
So League cup for me.
Then I remind myself it's just a shinier, long-winded, pimped up version of the inter-toto cup.
So League cup for me.
Winners of League cup since 2014
Man City x 6
Liverpool
Chelsea
Ourselves
Winners of ECL since it's inception (only 2 years)
Roma
West Ham
You clearly don't have to be a top side to win the Conference League. A team battling for relegation just won it for feck sake.
League Cup all day long.
Man City x 6
Liverpool
Chelsea
Ourselves
Winners of ECL since it's inception (only 2 years)
Roma
West Ham
You clearly don't have to be a top side to win the Conference League. A team battling for relegation just won it for feck sake.
League Cup all day long.
Arguably not, as teams must qualify for the conference league whereas all 92 domestic teams enter the league cup automatically. So conference league teams are of a similar standard and quality whereas the league cup entertains extremes of say Man City and Rotherham United.
Last edited:
In the last 10 years, winners had to beat a CL-calibre team to win the league cup. That's not the case in the conference league. WHU are also much richer than any team they have faced this season in that competition.
I voted Conference League when I probably shouldn't have. Might change it. I am a United fan so I'd rather us win the League Cup. In general though for most other teams and trying to put myself in the shoes of their fans it would be the Conference League.
I'm old enough to remember when the top clubs weren't as financially dominant as they were and how they'd have more ups and downs than they used to. Mind you look at Chelsea this season! Still, even being in the Conference League would be seen as a failure for United currently. At one time, if it had existed back then I wouldn't look down on it as much.
Perhaps things will start to change there because we went from "The top 4" to "The big 6" and now there's Newcastle to add to the mix. Some of these sides might well end up in the Conference League more often than they'd like or ideally want to currently and it might end up the norm.
Right now I'd say League Cup for United, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool - Conference League for all other teams. Spurs and Newcastle aren't really part of that gang.
Both get you in the Europa, which those 5 usually demand at least from league position. League Cup comes with a trip to Wembley but new Wembley doesn't have anywhere near the allure or gloss of old Wembley. Conference League takes teams like West Ham on a fun adventure all across the continent, there's more games to enjoy and I think I'd get more out of it.
I'm old enough to remember when the top clubs weren't as financially dominant as they were and how they'd have more ups and downs than they used to. Mind you look at Chelsea this season! Still, even being in the Conference League would be seen as a failure for United currently. At one time, if it had existed back then I wouldn't look down on it as much.
Perhaps things will start to change there because we went from "The top 4" to "The big 6" and now there's Newcastle to add to the mix. Some of these sides might well end up in the Conference League more often than they'd like or ideally want to currently and it might end up the norm.
Right now I'd say League Cup for United, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool - Conference League for all other teams. Spurs and Newcastle aren't really part of that gang.
Both get you in the Europa, which those 5 usually demand at least from league position. League Cup comes with a trip to Wembley but new Wembley doesn't have anywhere near the allure or gloss of old Wembley. Conference League takes teams like West Ham on a fun adventure all across the continent, there's more games to enjoy and I think I'd get more out of it.
Last edited:
Not much in it to be honest. I'd argue for West Ham, a European trophy will always be worth more. For United, we should never be in the Conference League to begin with.
Which makes it harder to qualify but not harder to win, something I would agree with you.
Of course someone could say if you don't qualify you can't win it. But if you are in the cup every year and then have to face teams like City, United, Pool, Arsenal, Chelsea etc...does it really matter?
On the other hand West Ham won the Conference in their first try.
How about none and we are still Manchester United?
Winning any and all trophies is good, I hate that people try to devalue them.
Try to win it if you are in it and celebrate it if you do.
Try to win it if you are in it and celebrate it if you do.
Correct answer already in the second post.
For most teams the European competition has to be bigger. For teams regularly competing in the Champions League, probably not so much as it would mean they are performing lower than expectations.
It’s a shame there’s so much snobbery about it, which I guess stems from the quality of teams. The Cup winners cup and UEFA cup previously had much better teams winning it, due to the European cup being smaller.
It’s vital for some of the bigger teams in smaller leagues, it can secure the future of a club by qualifying for the main stages.
It’s a shame there’s so much snobbery about it, which I guess stems from the quality of teams. The Cup winners cup and UEFA cup previously had much better teams winning it, due to the European cup being smaller.
It’s vital for some of the bigger teams in smaller leagues, it can secure the future of a club by qualifying for the main stages.
Not about United vs West Ham, however I would want to win a European Mickey mouse cup rather than a domestic Mickey mouse Carabou Cup
Is it even debatable? It's a good achievement for West Ham, but it's a third tier competition at the end of the day.
It's a comedown for United to even be playing the Europa League, let alone ever thinking about them in the Conference League.
Still, I'm sure Uefa and the sponsors will be glad they've got a few people to swallow the idea of the Conference League having any merit.
Might need a 25,000 rather than 20,000 stadium for the final next year.
It's a comedown for United to even be playing the Europa League, let alone ever thinking about them in the Conference League.
Still, I'm sure Uefa and the sponsors will be glad they've got a few people to swallow the idea of the Conference League having any merit.
Might need a 25,000 rather than 20,000 stadium for the final next year.
Last edited:
Conference league hands down
- it is a European trophy, you have seen 2 seasons now how ecstatic fans are for a chance of a european final
- it takes a journey around europe to reach the final.the league cup is barely a handful of games
- it will be remembered much longer than a league cup victory which is basically just a mini FA cup
I’m happy we won it though. Trophies are trophies
- it is a European trophy, you have seen 2 seasons now how ecstatic fans are for a chance of a european final
- it takes a journey around europe to reach the final.the league cup is barely a handful of games
- it will be remembered much longer than a league cup victory which is basically just a mini FA cup
I’m happy we won it though. Trophies are trophies
League cup > papa johns European tin pot trophy
I wonder how many of us would have said League Cup if we had ended up winning the Conference League. We'd claim the latter is a European trophy rather than a domestic one and hence carries more weight. Truth is there is little difference to both
I'm serious, I really wanted a Europa League win every year we've been in it and Baku is one of my biggest regrets of the past footballing decade (probably second behind the 2015-16 season as a whole). To me it's all European pedigree. I rate these competitions quite highly compared to many fans and I think Sevilla for example can be massively proud of their UEFA Cup/Europa League trophy record.
I do take your point about the reasons for being in it though, it'd ideally be following a one-off poor season rather than a pattern of finishing in and around those places. But if the latter scenario is where we find ourselves, then it's still a better consolation than the League Cup, at least for me personally.
Fair enough. I've always struggled to include the UEFA Cup/Europa League when comparing trophy totals because you're only there because you're not good enough for the CL.
Would you consider Sevilla to have a bigger European pedigree than United because of the 7 ELs? Or West Ham to have a bigger one than Arsenal now? I don't.
I voted League Cup because we’re better than West Ham, but really I’d rather have the European trophy on my shelf. That’s just between us though.
West Ham legitimately do have a better European pedigree than Arsenal now though
Arsenal: Cup Winners' Cup x1, Inter-Cities Fairs Cup x1.
West Ham: Cup Winners' Cup x1, Intertoto Cup x1, Conference League x1.
Its more like the old Cup Winners Cup I think.
Uefa conference cup. It puts you on the map with players across europe.
League cup is the most garbage cup there is domestically and should have been binmed off years ago.
League cup is the most garbage cup there is domestically and should have been binmed off years ago.
Depends entirely on the club. For Utd, we never want to even be playing in the conference league. Winning it would be embarrassing. Rival fans would probably use footage of us celebrating it as a stick to beat us with.
However, for a club like West Ham, it is quite an achievement, and gets them some recognition around Europe. So fair play to them.
League cup is a small win for us, but it couldn't ever be construed as anything but.
Again, for a team like West Ham, a league cup would be massive.
So TL,DR:
For us, League Cup - easily.
For a mid table team, either would be a fantastic accomplishment
However, for a club like West Ham, it is quite an achievement, and gets them some recognition around Europe. So fair play to them.
League cup is a small win for us, but it couldn't ever be construed as anything but.
Again, for a team like West Ham, a league cup would be massive.
So TL,DR:
For us, League Cup - easily.
For a mid table team, either would be a fantastic accomplishment
Yeah, that's pretty much what I've said in my posts. Trying to separate the difference between us winning the League Cup and West Ham winning the Conference League. Rather than it being about some United fans actually preferring to finish 14th and win the Conference's League rather than finishing 3rd and the League Cup, which I haven't read anyone actually claim but some seem to think is being claimed.
As you say, we don't want to be winning the Conference League because we don't want to be in a position where we're competing in it (though if we ever were, I obviously would want us to win it). Whereas for a team like West Ham, or Fiorentina had they done so, winning a European trophy and qualifying for next year's Europa League is a big thing. And I think that's the point being made. It's about the size of club winning it, and their prior hope and expectations, as much as the size / pedigree of the competition.
No that'd be ridiculous, these competitions are not 1:1 with Champions Leagues or even close, they're just decent and respectable IMO.
As far as West Ham having more European pedigree than us in the holistic sense, I think it'd be hard to argue that they do because there's a 'presence' aspect to European pedigree as well as trophies, and they are on the extreme end of being absent from European competitions over the decades compared to us. But because we're all 'presence' and relatively little to show for it, I'd have loved to have picked up some more of these secondary European honours.
That said we are hopefully passed that stage now, especially with it now being five places for English clubs, and it's time to concentrate on getting consistently into the later rounds of the Champions League again and getting to a point where we can challenge for that.
Kind of surprised with the responses here. Winning the ECL gets you into the Europa League. Winning the league cup gets you into the ECL. Just on that basis, I'd say ECL win is worth two spots more in league position.
My order of merit, just for me obviously
Premier League
Champions League
Europa League
FA Cup
Europa Conference League
League Cup
World Club Championship
European Super Cup
Premier League
Champions League
Europa League
FA Cup
Europa Conference League
League Cup
World Club Championship
European Super Cup
I'm really not getting this argument. It is a great win for West Ham, but how is it tougher than the League Cup? Surely, the fact that the last 10 league cups have been won by one of Manutd, Man City, Chelsea or Liverpool shows that this is a much harder competition. There are no teams of that level in the Conference League.
West Ham had a decent chance for the Conference League from the start, considering their run in the Europa last season. They pretty much have no chance to win the League Cup, though.
It really depends on the clubs. For the top 6-8 clubs i don't think winning Conference league matters, the fact that you end playing conference league is a failure.
For midtable clubs, i think it's an easy choice, conference league.
For midtable clubs, i think it's an easy choice, conference league.
The Cup Winners Cup used to be a really interesting concept for a European trophy. I never understood why it was scrapped. I don't understand what the Conference League is at all really, and I hope I never have to find out.
For bigger clubs (and not just from top five leagues) the Conference League is obviously not something they want to be competing in as any kind of main goal, but it's not hard to understand the reasoning for its existence as a standardised full season 3rd-tier of European competition. you can argue if we really need three competitions, but I do like it compared to something relatively similar like the intertoto cup, which was summer tournament and application based.
The league cup seems like a genuine irrelevance. No country needs more than one all-leagues domestic cup competition. Even if you have to eventually beat a tougher team or two to win it, i don't see any point at all; it's fixture congestion chaff that should be cut out.
The league cup seems like a genuine irrelevance. No country needs more than one all-leagues domestic cup competition. Even if you have to eventually beat a tougher team or two to win it, i don't see any point at all; it's fixture congestion chaff that should be cut out.
Ah, I was under the impression that winning either got you into the Europa. Someone posted as such on page one, and League Cup winners always used to.
That makes Conference League an even more obvious pick, especially for the teams who don't often win much. Trying to not be a snob, if that's one of the "bigger" teams current situation then that's their level too, shouldn't really turn their noses up at it.
Should always strive for better, to never be satisfied until you're the number 1 team on the planet but if you can't make the top 4, or make the Europa through league position then that team can't be thinking they're too good for Conference League. They're not and they have to face it. Winning it would be better than finishing 8th and taking home the League Cup.
Agreed, i really liked the idea if the cup winners cup.
You'd have to be a west ham fan to really understand what a trophy nevermind a european one means to the fans and club.
Glad the competition exists so that clubs and players who dont normally get a chance to experience european competition do.
Whatever people’s views are on the conference league I am glad it exists, it is a great way for midtable sides and perhaps in the future teams from Belgium, Holland, Portugal, Russia, Scotland etc to get some European glory again. I’m all for it and it’s going to be interesting to see which country or team eventually dominates this cup.
I think the happiness shown by Roma/Mourinho last year and Hammers/Moyes this year shows their is appetite for it and it is well deserved.
I am also a big proponent for the cup winners cup to return but losing finalists should never qualify for it.
I think the happiness shown by Roma/Mourinho last year and Hammers/Moyes this year shows their is appetite for it and it is well deserved.
I am also a big proponent for the cup winners cup to return but losing finalists should never qualify for it.
They should of got rid of the league Cup years ago. Complete waste of time.
There are going to be some interesting excuses here now, trying to rationalise why West Ham did not have a better season than United, by the trophy logic
As far as cup competitions go, Conference League is a European Cup. More games to play and that makes it harder to win. That beats the League Cup any day Im afraid.
West Ham with a better season than United, if you want to measure season success with cup wins.
Nice try
Completely agree, and have posted similar.
The third competition isn't there for the 'big teams' benefit. They might end up in it, of course. But it's perfectly valid reason for existing is to create extra opportunities for teams from smaller and medium sized nations to get the group stage football that they usually fail to qualify for in the bigger competitions. And to give a more realistic chance of European silverware for teams without the spending power of the CL winners.