Accounts show United will likely have to sell to buy big this summer

Stevondo8

Full Member
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
1,129
With all the players likely to be sold this summer I wouldn’t be too worried about current cash position.

Pogba, Smalling, Rojo, Sanchez (we can but dream), Lingard, maybe DDG too if we think Henderson is up to the job. Those sales should raise a decent wedge to respend on Sancho, Grealish etc.
 

AltiUn

likes playing with swords after fantasies
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
23,611
In June 2019 that figure stood at £308 million but United paid out £187 million on transfer fees in the next six months, recouping £22 million in sales.
Lukaku went for considerably more than £22m even if we're being paid in installments seems weird for him to not mention it right at the top. Also, I hadn't seen it reported anywhere else that we paid up front for James, on the BBC article it just says the initial fee was around £15m.

Also, surely the wages we've had off the books this season with Smalling, Darmian, Valencia, Herrera, Lukaku and Sanchez (around half of his wage) gone all season and Young and Rojo being gone since January should be quite a considerable amount of money saved. Either way, I'm taking anything Whitwell writes with a pinch of salt.
 

TsuWave

Full Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
14,281
More reason to hold on to Pogba. No way you’re selling and adequately replacing him on top of the additions we already needed, if we have crazy budget constraints.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
95,681
Location
india
Lukaku went for considerably more than £22m even if we're being paid in installments seems weird for him to not mention it right at the top. .
It's rubbish. Lukaku was sold for a huge fee. And if we're receiving that money in installments we can make payments in instalments.
 

Siorac

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
23,815
The revisionism over how good Smalling has been is odd. I've always rated him more than others, but he wasn't good at organizing us defensively. If he was able to play next to somebody like Maguire that would be ideal, but there's a reason almost all of our defensive metrics have improved this season versus what we experienced over the last two.
Our defensive metrics aren't really better than they were in 2017/18. We already conceded more this season than we did in the entirety of 2017/18.

And it's not really about how good Smalling is; it's that Maguire isn't "80m up front" better than him. That money could and should have been better spent elsewhere.
 

Rooney1987

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
6,245
Location
Bradford
With Henderson doing so well in the PL this year I have to agree with others in this thread on United at least considering selling De Gea. I wonder what we'd get? He's on very high wages and coming of not the best 18 months.
 

Jonno

Full Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
8,375
Location
Preston, Lancashire
Pogba out, fees will continue to come in over installments from Lukaku and other former sales.

We'll be left with a good amount to invest further.
 

ivaldo

Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?
Joined
Nov 15, 2012
Messages
28,699
So in reality, this will affect our transfer budget in no discernable way. We won't be paying up front. Most clubs wouldn't expect us to do either.
 

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
68,692
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
Daft article. We don't usually work in absolutes we work in increments. The fact Maguire was entirely up front isn't a bad thing, it means we've paid up and we don't have his fee coming out of the accounts each season.

We've got a solid core of talented players at a really good age and we're going to be looking to move a few on anyway. We can comfortably afford a high net spend this season with a view to completing this squad and taking it to the next level which will bring in it's own increase in income. If we spend and don't reach those heights then we're going to be in a position where we have to be more frugal for a summer or so but we're not there yet.
 

AltiUn

likes playing with swords after fantasies
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
23,611
It's rubbish. Lukaku was sold for a huge fee. And if we're receiving that money in installments we can make payments in instalments.
I think it's the fear-mongering the Athletic promised to avoid, considering all the hype they gave themselves they've been no better than the rags and Laurie Whitwell is one of the worst offenders. We'll see soon enough how much we're capable of spending.
 

Snuffkin

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Messages
671
The academy undoubtedly produces good players but we don't seem to be able to sell the kids who don't quite make it. Loaning them out has worked but they never sell for much money.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
39,954
Great, and how does that go against any of what I said exactly?
I've already answered that. The club felt they didn't need to spend another 60m on a centre back when we already had 5 at the club (bailly,lindelof,jones,smalling,rojo)

Perhaps he should have just dealt better with the players at his disposal.
 

AR87

Full Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
3,217
Location
believer that Sancho will turn it around
Our defensive metrics aren't really better than they were in 2017/18. We already conceded more this season than we did in the entirety of 2017/18.

And it's not really about how good Smalling is; it's that Maguire isn't "80m up front" better than him. That money could and should have been better spent elsewhere.
DDG stood on his head in 17/18. Our defense was garbage at actually restricting shot volume and quality. The underlying metrics indicated that the goals allowed was likely to increase drastically the following season unless DDG continued to perform miracles, which is precisely why Mourinho wanted to invest in a CB, Maguire being one of his preferred options.
 

jackal&hyde

Full Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
4,220
I think it's the fear-mongering the Athletic promised to avoid, considering all the hype they gave themselves they've been no better than the rags and Laurie Whitwell is one of the worst offenders. We'll see soon enough how much we're capable of spending.
I sadly agree. They started well but then went back to the usual hype or doom and gloom sensationalism of the usual media. I don't think i'l be resubing next year. Their defense of Man City in both writing and podcasts has been particularly disgusting.
 

dal

New Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2013
Messages
2,207
So on average broadcast revenue is down £40 mio per quarter that’s £160 mio per year and the salary reduction is only £28 mio per annum

Hmmm need this cultural shift speedy fella

If my sums are right l
 

Eckers99

Michael Corleone says hello
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
6,117
We'll be looking to sell the likes of Pogba, Lingard, Smalling etc but knowing that we need to sell to invest surely gives buying clubs leverage to low-ball us on fees? All this, plus a major championship, points towards another frustrating summer of protracted negotiations?
 

Siorac

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
23,815
DDG stood on his head in 17/18. Our defense was garbage at actually restricting shot volume and quality. The underlying metrics indicated that the goals allowed was likely to increase drastically the following season unless DDG continued to perform miracles, which is precisely why Mourinho wanted to invest in a CB, Maguire being one of his preferred options.
Yes, De Gea's performances account for some of the difference. But if De Gea performed the same in both seasons, our defensive record would probably be similar. I don't see that Maguire brought a lot of improvement.

Last season was a bit of an anomaly because Mourinho threw his toys out of the pram and did daft things like playing Herrera and McTominay at CB. With Solskjaer, we conceded 25 goals in 21 games which is only a slightly worse record than what we have this season.
 

AltiUn

likes playing with swords after fantasies
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
23,611
We'll be looking to sell the likes of Pogba, Lingard, Smalling etc but knowing that we need to sell to invest surely gives buying clubs leverage to low-ball us on fees? All this, plus a major championship, points towards another frustrating summer of protracted negotiations?
Apart from RW I don't think we're actually desperate for any position, which is a stark contrast to last summer and other summers before it, that's what allowed clubs to fleece us so easily. Obviously that might change if Pogba leaves although I'm not entirely convinced he will anway.
 

Infra-red

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
13,419
Location
left wing
Lukaku went for considerably more than £22m even if we're being paid in installments seems weird for him to not mention it right at the top. Also, I hadn't seen it reported anywhere else that we paid up front for James, on the BBC article it just says the initial fee was around £15m.

Also, surely the wages we've had off the books this season with Smalling, Darmian, Valencia, Herrera, Lukaku and Sanchez (around half of his wage) gone all season and Young and Rojo being gone since January should be quite a considerable amount of money saved. Either way, I'm taking anything Whitwell writes with a pinch of salt.
It's rubbish. Lukaku was sold for a huge fee. And if we're receiving that money in installments we can make payments in instalments.
Those figures have been taken directly from the club's published accounts and so they aren't really up for dispute.

We had £308m in the bank on 30th June 2019. By 31st December 2019, it was down to £101m.

During that time, we paid exactly £187,311,000 on transfers and received exactly £22,009,000 from transfers.

We have since also bought Fernandes.
 

Motorman

Full Member
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
1,155
Location
England
You really have to wonder how the club could go from telling Jose no at £60m to letting Ole signing him at £80m, upfront, a year later, and subsequently decimating our transfer budget. The mind boggles.
Thats a difference of £20m.

That does not decimate our budget.
 

theklr

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
2,659
D'feck you on about?

Clearly I'm saying Maguire was not worth paying £80m up front for, especially when it took such a massive chunk out of our summer budget.
Well, since we had alot of cash lying around , paying up front isnt always the worst option. The instalments in the future would have a sizable effect on our future possibilities as well.
 

RUCK4444

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
9,553
Location
$¥$¥$¥$¥$
All the more reason to hold onto Pogba in my opinion. Retaining a high value asset rather than sell and try (and probably fail) to adequately replace him.

Wasting money on a failed replacement is worse than retaining what we have (if indeed we can.) I would certainly trigger any extension in the contract as a starting point.
 

TRUERED89

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 23, 2019
Messages
2,366
Location
England
Pogba - with a good Euros - could fetch maybe £100m

So that plus say Lingard and we could easily be looking at £101m

More seriously, between Pogs, Lingard, Smalling that's £135m... maybe some other players going out and about and I reckon we could hopefully be looking at about £150m in?

Also, feck the Glaziers.
You’re being rather kind there :lol:
 

RUCK4444

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
9,553
Location
$¥$¥$¥$¥$
Well, since we had alot of cash lying around , paying up front isnt always the worst option. The instalments in the future would have a sizeable effect on our future possibilities as well.
Agree. In my experience amortisation of debt will just help hinder your ongoing annual spend.

If your cash rich then buy outright and maximise your budget for the next transfer window. Football transfer windows are a strange business and in my opinion we should always look to maximise what we can spend in any given window, especially at the rate our players get injured.
 

elmo

Can never have too many Eevees
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
13,385
Location
AKA: Slapanut Goat Smuggla
Pogba - with a good Euros - could fetch maybe £100m

So that plus say Lingard and we could easily be looking at £101m

More seriously, between Pogs, Lingard, Smalling that's £135m... maybe some other players going out and about and I reckon we could hopefully be looking at about £150m in?

Also, feck the Glaziers.
More like £85m.
 

Eckers99

Michael Corleone says hello
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
6,117
Apart from RW I don't think we're actually desperate for any position, which is a stark contrast to last summer and other summers before it, that's what allowed clubs to fleece us so easily. Obviously that might change if Pogba leaves although I'm not entirely convinced he will anway.
Well yeah, this coincides with us only being a couple of top players away from having our best side in almost a decade. Still, we know from past experience that we can make hard work of 1 big signing so, make that 2 and throw in the need to bring in decent fees (which we rarely do anyway) and it doesn't bode well does it? Hopefully we can get a deal done early doors and ease the urgency.
 

sunama

Baghdad Bob
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
16,839
Pogba - with a good Euros - could fetch maybe £100m

So that plus say Lingard and we could easily be looking at £101m

More seriously, between Pogs, Lingard, Smalling that's £135m... maybe some other players going out and about and I reckon we could hopefully be looking at about £150m in?
In all seriousness, we'd probably have to pay a club to take Lingard off our hands (i.e. subsidise his wages. I think we may have done this when we sold Rooney to Everton).
I genuinely believe that Lingard will do okay in the Championship. He did score a goal against the League One side (Tranmere), so if the Championship is too tough for him, League One beckons.
 

AR87

Full Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
3,217
Location
believer that Sancho will turn it around
Yes, De Gea's performances account for some of the difference. But if De Gea performed the same in both seasons, our defensive record would probably be similar. I don't see that Maguire brought a lot of improvement.

Last season was a bit of an anomaly because Mourinho threw his toys out of the pram and did daft things like playing Herrera and McTominay at CB. With Solskjaer, we conceded 25 goals in 21 games which is only a slightly worse record than what we have this season.
We were solid defensively under Ole when he first came in, before falling apart towards the end of the season. There's also the fundamental fact that Ole wants to play with defenders who are comfortable and able to build from the back, even under duress. Smalling was never a fit, at least as a starting XI player, for Ole's vision for the squad. Even then, he moved Smalling on because we couldn't unload Rojo and Jones, and also because Smalling asked to leave for more game time to give himself a chance to work his way back into the England team before the Euros.

Maguire has been very good imo, and if we ever decide to coach up our ability to defend set pieces the difference he's made will be even more palpable.
 

RedDevilRoshi

Full Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2017
Messages
13,268
So potential moves for Sancho, Grealish etc will need to be on hold until we get rid of the likes of Pogba, Lingard, Pereira, Rojo, Smalling, Jones, Sanchez etc.

Going to be some summer :lol:
 

Adisa

likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
50,373
Location
Birmingham
Ed Woodward is not a financial genius. I will keep repeating it.
 

sunama

Baghdad Bob
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
16,839
The club recently blamed Mourinho for the over spend needed to sign Maguire. Can't remember the details but I'm sure they're easy enough to google as to why it was his fault
Well, it doesn't take a genius to work out that the board did not want to spend money in Jose's final Summer.
He wanted 4 signings, then 3, then 2. In the end we got 1 senior player (Fred).
Jose wanted to compete for the title, but the players he felt he needed to do that were not forthcoming due to costs.
Woodward's aim is to save as much money as possible, while getting top 4 - that's it.

With Ole, I think Woodward thinks that he has a man who can scrape 4th place every season, while not demanding any transfers. And the biggest positive for Woodward is that Ole is his shield. While he is getting poor Moyes-esque results, the fans will keep clapping and not complain too much because few fans are prepared to call Ole out.
 

DVG7

New Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
2,381
All the more reason to hold onto Pogba in my opinion. Retaining a high value asset rather than sell and try (and probably fail) to adequately replace him.

Wasting money on a failed replacement is worse than retaining what we have (if indeed we can.) I would certainly trigger any extension in the contract as a starting point.
we already replaced pogba with Bruno. The team won’t function well with both in the team except against cannon fodder opposition.
 

sunama

Baghdad Bob
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
16,839
Ed Woodward is not a financial genius. I will keep repeating it.
Exactly. He isn't.
People who don't know much about running the finances of a company think he is doing a good job, but I would argue that he is average at best.
As a DoF, he is absolutely terrible.
Under his charge, we have declined from being a team which would go for the title every year and be the biggest earners in the EPL, to finishing 4th-7th place every year and being just about ahead of our rival EPL teams.
The guy should thank his lucky stars that he hasn't been fired. If he were working for most other companies, he'd be gone.