ACTUAL POLL thread - how do you feel about potential Qatari ownership?

[croadyman]

And this is one of the fundamental problems with state ownership of the club. They're not in any way accountable for their actions.

I wonder if that middle option I referenced in a previous post is someone like Pagliuca/Ballmer but neither seem to have solid interest.

 

[Raoul]

I wonder if that middle option I referenced in a previous post is someone like Pagliuca/Ballmer but neither seem to have solid interest.

Ballmer would be ideal. He has far more money than any of them as well.

 

[Señor Sloppy]

They’re a tiny Island nation in the Persian Gulf with about 200k actual citizens (the rest are migrant workers), so it’s a small sample size of net worth per capita. The fact that all of their wealth happens to come out of the ground makes it even less consequential.

Have there been any previous instances in recent history where migrant workers have executed a revolution?

A recent example would be Abramovich, whose money is tacitly tied to Putin (Russian Oligarchs don’t actually own their own money. Instead it is owned by Putin and “deployed” to specific Oligarchs home and abroad to advance his interests). We all know what happened once Putin invaded Ukraine.

The Abramovich/Chelsea situation would actually support my point rather than yours. During that affair, the reputations of Roman Abramovich and Chelsea were very much distinguished from each other by media and public alike - nobody was claiming that Chelsea FC were active supporters of Russia simply because they were owned by someone who was perceived to be. Indeed, Chelsea were seen as victims within the whole situation, their reputation and status ultimately emerging untarnished.

There’s always a massive risk in state ownership, much less that of an autocratic regime. Beyond the obvious moral depravity of it, United would do well to steer clear of the risk associated with the behavior of the Qatari government.

I’d also disagree with your assertion that there’s a “massive risk” in state ownership. You cite the extraordinary circumstances of Abramovich/Chelsea (again, from which Chelsea emerged unscathed), yet I can’t think of any instance where a state-owned club has faced a similar situation.

In fact, state ownership of a sports club is primarily motivated by that state’s desire to boost their reputation, these huge stakes being entirely tied up in the success of that club. This immense driver for success is not something you could also say is applicable to virtually any other type of owner, therefore the risk factor is comparatively minimal.

It's not a different one, you simply misunderstood the point of the video.

The fact you then immediately dismiss the feelings of United's LGBT+ community is telling. Just because you think it shouldn't exist doesn't mean it doesn't. The evidence that it does is right in front of your eyes.

And of course Man Utd matters more, no LGBT+ individual has grown up dedicating their time to supporting Harrods.

Seems like we’re going round in circles slightly. All I shall say is that feelings - almost by definition - are regularly illogical and unconstructive. Therefore, I would entirely defend my right to critique the feelings of the LGBTQ+ community, just as I would for any other group.

 

[Dion]

Seems like we’re going round in circles slightly. All I shall say is that feelings - almost by definition - are regularly illogical and unconstructive. Therefore, I would entirely defend my right to critique the feelings of the LGBTQ+ community, just as I would for any other group.

You're not critiquing their feelings, you dismissed their existence.

 

[Wumminator]

Did this sway anyone’s view I wonder.

 

[enghuei]

Seems like the majority of the posters here are OK with the Jassim's bid.

 

[Ole's screen]

Did this sway anyone’s view I wonder.

If they saved some money by cutting corners that resulted in that death and they are potentially gonna use that money to bring big players here nobody here cares. If every death adds more money to United's transfer budgets people here would be unironically calling for more deaths.

 

[Highfather_24]

Will sleep like a baby.

 

[NLunited]

The poll above shows a clear chunk of people have no problem whatsoever, but they are not in the majority. That is a good thing at least.

It‘s like finding a wallet in the street. A lot of people will take the money, while others will bring it to the police station.

The Qatar situation is more nuanced, but you can say supporting a Qatar bid without any reservations is not right.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Looking forward to new Man Utd with Qatari ownership for football reasons:

1. Debt free to allow the club putting its own money back into the club. No more dodgy loans from banks and etc.
2. No more paying interests and dividends to the tune of more than 1B
3. Serious ambition in investing into the squad to challenge for CL and EPL.
4. Investment in new stadium, training centre, youth, women, science, medical, scouting, technical and etc.
5. Trust in ETH and keep working to establish a world class football structure in the club

 

[NLunited]

Looking forward to new Man Utd with Qatari ownership for football reasons:

1. Debt free to allow the club putting its own money back into the club. No more dodgy loans from banks and etc.
2. No more paying interests and dividends to the tune of more than 1B
3. Serious ambition in investing into the squad to challenge for CL and EPL.
4. Investment in new stadium, training centre, youth, women, science, medical, scouting, technical and etc.
5. Trust in ETH and keep working to establish a world class football structure in the club

1. Hurts the image of the club
2. Qataris don‘t respect laws and will violate FFP rules. They have at Malaga and PSG
3. They failed to build a world class football structure at PSG. More like a global disaster.

It‘s naive to think money will fix all our problems. We don‘t need them.

 

[Bert_]

Looking forward to new Man Utd with Qatari ownership for football reasons:

1. Debt free to allow the club putting its own money back into the club. No more dodgy loans from banks and etc.
2. No more paying interests and dividends to the tune of more than 1B
3. Serious ambition in investing into the squad to challenge for CL and EPL.
4. Investment in new stadium, training centre, youth, women, science, medical, scouting, technical and etc.
5. Trust in ETH and keep working to establish a world class football structure in the club

Where did you read this manifesto? I'd like to have a read.

 

[enghuei]

Where did you read this manifesto? I'd like to have a read.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-united-takeover-qatar-statement-26270897.amp

It’s the only statement that they have released so far.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

1. Hurts the image of the club
2. Qataris don‘t respect laws and will violate FFP rules. They have at Malaga and PSG
3. They failed to build a world class football structure at PSG. More like a global disaster.

It‘s naive to think money will fix all our problems. We don‘t need them.

I think we have enough morality and whatnot discussed to death in many thread. I will leave it at that.

To me and majority of the posters the Qatar bid is the preferred bid. I think we should respect each other opinion and move on to properly support the club.

 

[Bert_]

Looking forward to new Man Utd with Qatari ownership for football reasons:

1. Debt free to allow the club putting its own money back into the club. No more dodgy loans from banks and etc.
2. No more paying interests and dividends to the tune of more than 1B
3. Serious ambition in investing into the squad to challenge for CL and EPL.
4. Investment in new stadium, training centre, youth, women, science, medical, scouting, technical and etc.
5. Trust in ETH and keep working to establish a world class football structure in the club

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-united-takeover-qatar-statement-26270897.amp

It’s the only statement that they have released so far.

I suppose this generic statement vaguely covers points 1, 3 (kind of) and a bit of 4.

The bid will be completely debt free via Sheikh Jassim's Nine Two Foundation, which will look to invest in the football teams, the training centre, the stadium and wider infrastructure, the fan experience, and communities the club supports. The vision of the bid is for Manchester United Football Club to be renowned for footballing excellence, and regarded as the greatest football club in the world. More details of the bid will be released, when appropriate, if and when the bid process develops

Either way. I don't believe the manifesto. They will not have my vote in the upcoming united sale election.

 

[Lecland07]

If I'm just talking about the club, I really do not want to see us spending more money than we already are, to be honest.

We already spend a lot on players and I don't particularly like the idea of us, potentially, shelling out £300m in one or summer or £200m on one player. I think it will lose some of the fun if we take spending even further.

This could be the first time a massive club is being bought out by a state; it has never happened before. All the other clubs have been much smaller. There are concerns around this bringing severe issues to the financial side of football.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

If I'm just talking about the club, I really do not want to see us spending more money than we already are, to be honest.

We already spend a lot on players and I don't particularly like the idea of us, potentially, shelling out £300m in one or summer or £200m on one player. I think it will lose some of the fun if we take spending even further.

This could be the first time a massive club is being bought out by a state; it has never happened before. All the other clubs have been much smaller. There are concerns around this bringing severe issues to the financial side of football.

This summer we still need to spend big because we still have many obvious position to improve on GK, ST x 2, RB, CDM, CM. We need to build a team fully capable to play ETH's style of play.

After that, I don't think we need to spend big every year. Maybe target to bring in 1 or 2 top players to further improve the team.

 

[Rayman96]

Did this sway anyone’s view I wonder.

While any death is a tragedy, using an unexplained death as a factor against the Qatar bid when when there are literally thousands of unexplained, dodgy, negligent deaths that our police don't give a shit about every year in the UK seems a bit hollow.

 

[Bert_]

This summer we still need to spend big because we still have many obvious position to improve on GK, ST x 2, RB, CDM, CM. We need to build a team fully capable to play ETH's style of play.

After that, I don't think we need to spend big every year. Maybe target to bring in 1 or 2 top players to further improve the team.

So Qatar for the summer then someone else after?

 

[Gavinb33]

I suppose this generic statement vaguely covers points 1, 3 (kind of) and a bit of 4.

The bid will be completely debt free via Sheikh Jassim's Nine Two Foundation, which will look to invest in the football teams, the training centre, the stadium and wider infrastructure, the fan experience, and communities the club supports. The vision of the bid is for Manchester United Football Club to be renowned for footballing excellence, and regarded as the greatest football club in the world. More details of the bid will be released, when appropriate, if and when the bid process develops

Either way. I don't believe the manifesto. They will not have my vote in the upcoming united sale election.

I mean I could make every single one of those promises now in some kind of press release will everyone think I can run the club well too?

 

[Rayman96]

If I'm just talking about the club, I really do not want to see us spending more money than we already are, to be honest.

We already spend a lot on players and I don't particularly like the idea of us, potentially, shelling out £300m in one or summer or £200m on one player. I think it will lose some of the fun if we take spending even further.

This could be the first time a massive club is being bought out by a state; it has never happened before. All the other clubs have been much smaller. There are concerns around this bringing severe issues to the financial side of football.

So spending money on great players so we can play great football and hopefully win things will take the fun out of it for you.
Unless your Utds accountant or have a major interest in their profit margin, I'm not sure why you would give a toss.

 

[Dan_F]

While any death is a tragedy, using an unexplained death as a factor against the Qatar bid when when there are literally thousands of unexplained, dodgy, negligent deaths that our police don't give a shit about every year in the UK seems a bit hollow.

Hint. The police or the UK government aren’t biding to buy United. The Qataris are literally using the money that should be going compensate workers families, to buy the club.

Thousands of unexplained, negligent deaths in the UK each year, are you sure?

 

[Rayman96]

I mean I could make every single one of those promises now in some kind of press release will everyone think I can run the club well too?

You could apply that logic to any bid, every time.
What do you think they should have said? We want to buy the club but we wont tell you why or anything we hope to achieve.

 

[Terry Chango]

If I'm just talking about the club, I really do not want to see us spending more money than we already are, to be honest.

We already spend a lot on players and I don't particularly like the idea of us, potentially, shelling out £300m in one or summer or £200m on one player. I think it will lose some of the fun if we take spending even further.

This could be the first time a massive club is being bought out by a state; it has never happened before. All the other clubs have been much smaller. There are concerns around this bringing severe issues to the financial side of football.

We didn’t spend a penny in January.

 

[Bert_]

I mean I could make every single one of those promises now in some kind of press release will everyone think I can run the club well too?

How many billions do you have and will you commit to buying Mbappe?

 

[Bert_]

You could apply that logic to any bid, every time.
What do you think they should have said? We want to buy the club but we wont tell you why or anything we hope to achieve.

They didn't have to say anything. They could have just posted a pic a middle finger on twitter aimed at United fans. It wouldn't have made any difference. Glazers will sell to the highest bidder.

 

[Rayman96]

Hint. The police or the UK government aren’t biding to buy United. The Qataris are literally using the money that should be going compensate workers families, to buy the club.

Thousands of unexplained, negligent deaths in the UK each year, are you sure?

Read the papers any given day and you will find plenty of examples.

Look I get it. You hate the Qataris. They are from the middle east. They have a different culture and religion so they must be evil.
Im just trying to say we aren't perfect either.
I won't convince you so won't attempt to.

 

[Lost bear]

Agreed.

State backed ownership should have never been allowed in, but it’s too late to close that door.

Qatar done a fantastic job with the World Cup.

Why the problem with state ownership? States are themselves run by oligarchies so it doesn’t really make too much difference. If it was a genuinely democratic state that would probably be the best option, as only states could in theory run a club in the interests of clubs and their supporters. Actually, so could a hugely rich patron, but there aren’t many of those this side of heaven.

 

[Gavinb33]

You could apply that logic to any bid, every time.
What do you think they should have said? We want to buy the club but we wont tell you why or anything we hope to achieve.

How many billions do you have and will you commit to buying Mbappe?

Neither, but that's the other issue this guy Sheikh Jassim by all accounts does not have the billions either and you have some people denying state involvement and some saying state involvement, who is fronting up these billions they put out no debt but then didn't clarify the funding either.

What I meant by my rather glib comment is that too many fans have put stock in a very vague public statement which means a guarantee all these things will happen when they take over when it's really nothing at all to be excited about until they actually do it, I mean the guy Knighton promised all sorts in the 90's and then turned out he had nothing at all to offer.

 

[Pickle85]

Read the papers any given day and you will find plenty of examples.

Look I get it. You hate the Qataris. They are from the middle east. They have a different culture and religion so they must be evil.
Im just trying to say we aren't perfect either.
I won't convince you so won't attempt to.

All you've contributed is whataboutery and strawmanning to the discussion.

Look, I get it. You just want to win whatever the cost. As long as the new owners get you your shiny new toys you'll be happy.
I'm just saying not everyone else feels the same.
I won't convince you so won't attempt to.

 

[croadyman]

I suppose this generic statement vaguely covers points 1, 3 (kind of) and a bit of 4.

The bid will be completely debt free via Sheikh Jassim's Nine Two Foundation, which will look to invest in the football teams, the training centre, the stadium and wider infrastructure, the fan experience, and communities the club supports. The vision of the bid is for Manchester United Football Club to be renowned for footballing excellence, and regarded as the greatest football club in the world. More details of the bid will be released, when appropriate, if and when the bid process develops

Either way. I don't believe the manifesto. They will not have my vote in the upcoming united sale election.

I knew they wouldn't get your vote,like I said in other thread IF state ownership wasn't legal then fully back Ratcliffe,however the league lay down and got belly tickled in 2008 so support Jassim

 

[Bert_]

Neither, but that's the other issue this guy Sheikh Jassim by all accounts does not have the billions either and you have some people denying state involvement and some saying state involvement, who is fronting up these billions they put out no debt but then didn't clarify the funding either.

What I meant by my rather glib comment is that too many fans have put stock in a very vague public statement which means a guarantee all these things will happen when they take over when it's really nothing at all to be excited about until they actually do it, I mean the guy Knighton promised all sorts in the 90's and then turned out he had nothing at all to offer.

That's the irony in this. Jassim and his dad are estimated (by forbes) to have a net worth of about $1 billion. It could be more depending on how much they've hidden away but it's not remotely likely to be enough to drop £6 billion on a football club without any state backing. Unless the Bank of America guys weren't just there to give "advise" and are actually using a Qatari as a front to buy the club.

On the other hand you have guy personally worth £20 billion who has not made any secret that it's his company (who turned over £60 billion last year) that are bidding for the club. But apparently they aren't rich enough to buy us. Despite him being worth more than 10x the entire Glazer family personally even without involving INEOS.

We don't need piles of cash. We just need the Glazers gone. I'm no fan of Radcliffe/INEOS but they are a huge upgrade on the Glazers without us having to submit to becoming a glorified marketing vehicle.

 

[romufc]

All you've contributed is whataboutery and strawmanning to the discussion.

Look, I get it. You just want to win whatever the cost. As long as the new owners get you your shiny new toys you'll be happy.
I'm just saying not everyone else feels the same.
I won't convince you so won't attempt to.

Thats actually a false statement. The Glazers have provided shiny new toys, I dont see many if any fans happy.

Its actually more than that, I thought most United fans knew this and only rivals brought this up.

Its not about transfers, its about alot of things, including debt, stadium, infrastructure, standards.

 

[Dan_F]

Read the papers any given day and you will find plenty of examples.

Look I get it. You hate the Qataris. They are from the middle east. They have a different culture and religion so they must be evil.
Im just trying to say we aren't perfect either.
I won't convince you so won't attempt to.

Why act like that because someone wants to have a discussion? If you can’t be bothered to back up your point that’s fine, but accusing me of hating a group of people because of their culture and religion is a shambles honestly.

 

[Lynty]

Why the problem with state ownership? States are themselves run by oligarchies so it doesn’t really make too much difference. If it was a genuinely democratic state that would probably be the best option, as only states could in theory run a club in the interests of clubs and their supporters. Actually, so could a hugely rich patron, but there aren’t many of those this side of heaven.

I feel it eliminates a large pool of buyers. Even someone like Ratcliffe, despite being a multi billonaire, still works within contraints of a budget with this kind of stuff. These oil states don't seem to care, as profit or financial balancing isn't their primary agenda. I'd be really suprised if Ratcliffe manages to beat Qatar to purchase the club.

Ideally we'd want ownership restricted to an incredibly wealthy fan or set of fans. That era has long gone. We seem to now be leaving an era of ownership for profit, to one where it's more a game of soft politics on an international scale.

 

[Pickle85]

Thats actually a false statement. The Glazers have provided shiny new toys, I dont see many if any fans happy.

Its actually more than that, I thought most United fans knew this and only rivals brought this up.

Its not about transfers, its about alot of things, including debt, stadium, infrastructure, standards.

I was riffing on what the previous poster had said. It was actually intended to be a massive oversimplification precisely because that's exactly what that poster had also done (oversimplified and flattened objections down to 'well you just hate Qataris'). I'd thought that mirroring the wording he used would have made that clear but obviously I should have made it more obvious.

 

[romufc]

Hint. The police or the UK government aren’t biding to buy United. The Qataris are literally using the money that should be going compensate workers families, to buy the club.

Thousands of unexplained, negligent deaths in the UK each year, are you sure?

Its quite interesting you say this, yet I assume you own some a piece of clothing that has been manufactured in the far east where human rights have been violated ?

Paying for a pair of trainers that cost £10 to make and buying them for x5 /x10 the price or more in some instances.

I guess your reply will follow the lines of "whataboutism"?

 

[Vapor trail]

This could be the first time a massive club is being bought out by a state; it has never happened before.

Good point so those who use PSG as examples are missing the context but rather lumping all into the same category. I don't see a scenario where United all of a sudden become very uneconomical in the markets and sanction ridiculous moves for certain players. There will likely be more reserves as opposed to Glazer ownership (dividend model) but the most important aspect that will determine the success of the club is the hierarchical infrastructure.

When it comes to this aspect it doesn't really matter who's in charge be it INEOS or Qatar but rather who's employed to these positions to facilitate changes in footballing matters. It will be interesting when the sale is sanctioned what happens with the likes of Murtough / Arnold. The jury is still out with them both.

 

[Wumminator]

Its quite interesting you say this, yet I assume you own some a piece of clothing that has been manufactured in the far east where human rights have been violated ?

Paying for a pair of trainers that cost £10 to make and buying them for x5 /x10 the price or more in some instances.

I guess your reply will follow the lines of "whataboutism"?

Some people may value United and their support for it as much as buying a new set of £10.00 trainers. My support for United means more to me than that but if buying a pair of shoes emotionally the same bond as the footy club you support fair enough. Different people support the club in different ways.

 

[Wumminator]

Read the papers any given day and you will find plenty of examples.

Look I get it. You hate the Qataris. They are from the middle east. They have a different culture and religion so they must be evil.
Im just trying to say we aren't perfect either.
I won't convince you so won't attempt to.

Do you think the Qatari regime is not evil?