Depends on what you consider controversy.
Ajax - Golden Generation
- Thread starter wythyred
- Start date
I've been a bit dubious about how good they are considering I only watch them in the UCL, but it's indisputable now they're fecking class.
I love them. In contrast to the "usual" underdogs that make it to the latter stages of big tournaments they don't play ultra-defensively and destructively at all. Instead they show the best collective football in tge rournament so far. Would love if they manage to win it.
As a neutral, Barca, Liverpool, Ajax and City would make a great semifinal. It's been some time since there were four attacking minded teams in the semis. A Barca - Ajax final would be dope, like the pinnacle of total fotball
As a neutral, Barca, Liverpool, Ajax and City would make a great semifinal. It's been some time since there were four attacking minded teams in the semis. A Barca - Ajax final would be dope, like the pinnacle of total fotball
You are going to piss off a lot of people on the caf with that statementI love them. In contrast to the "usual" underdogs that make it to the latter stages of big tournaments they don't play ultra-defensively and destructively at all. Instead they show the best collective football in tge rournament so far. Would love if they manage to win it.
As a neutral, Barca, Liverpool, Ajax and City would make a great semifinal. It's been some time since there were four attacking minded teams in the semis. A Barca - Ajax final would be dope, like the pinnacle of total fotball
Actually I thought the part that I wish for Liverpool and City in the semis would piss off more peopleYou are going to piss off a lot of people on the caf with that statement
Actually I thought the part that I wish for Liverpool and City in the semis would piss off more people
It's happening!Actually I thought the part that I wish for Liverpool and City in the semis would piss off more people
AND van der Saar, Edgar Davids, Finidi George.. Crazy pool of talent they had then.
I always have had a soft spot for Ajax, so pleased that they are back in the latter stages again with some great football.
Loved the way Ajax played last night, especially when taking apart Juve's defense with rapid combinations. Sometimes they overplayed it, but then went on to win back possession right away, and go for it again. Remarkable that a young team was able to pressurize Juventus like this away from home.
Just look at what they have achieved since the final against us a couple of years back(europa league)
Like someone on reddit said - we have been run like a revenue club since - they have been run like a football club.
Incredible academy they have
Amazing! Hope they can win it.
True. That team was really crazy. I primarily loved them for beating Bayern 5-1 in the semi final of the 1995 CL I think. What an epic performance that was.
Outside of Rotterdam, Eindhoven, Den Haag, Utrecht, etc. of course.
The jealousy and inferiority complex levels within the Netherlands (and accusations of arrogance for bragging about club records and achievements) are so huge that many of the rival fans can't or won't:
- Ever visit Amsterdam, let alone the ArenA, not even for national team matches or concerts
- Refuse to ever say the word Ajax, instead refering to the city's phone netcode 020, or Ajakkes (word with a meaning akin to "icky").
- Feyenoord hooligans prefered Feyenoord to lose to FC Twente to ensure Ajax did not become champions. Going as far to enter their own clubs training grounds to intimidate their players that they should lose to FC Twente.
- Often can't accept a player who prominently played for Ajax
- Hate players, call them traitors and even threaten them if they went from certain clubs (Feyenoord in particular) to Ajax
- Note: only some hope they lose in Europe, even if it costs the rest of the league CL and EL entry tickets, because they can't stomach being told at work by a colleague what an amazing match it was the day before...
Outside of the Netherlands, I think everyone's in love though.
Anywhere you go, it's like "You from Netherlands? Aaaah Ajax, Croif! Van Baston! Burghkamp! Good!" You tried that with LvG. Then you dumped him before giving him a chance to completely reformat the youth system and get the main team used to a high discipline, technical possession game. Instead, you had a bunch of veteran players not used to the system LvG had in mind.
IMO, they understood the basic idea of passing and ball possession to some degree, enough to execute it on a basic level. But they did not quite get the goal of the passing, nor had the experience with it to be creative with and exploit the triangles, or the confidence to do this playing forward. Then you get these side to side passes for possession with no initiative or goal, which some of the rebuilding teams of Frank de Boer also had.
Basically, as it wasn't routine for them, it takes concentration and effort to pull off. If there's not enough confidence, they just keep doing the easiest pass, which often is side and backwards, playing it safe. One of the hardest things to achieve is getting players to do this while playing forward.
Thing is, with Ajax, the core philosophy is what matters, not star players. Ajax can't afford to rely on one single player anyway, because that player will be gone the next year given the current financial situation in international football.
Scouting for youthful talents is extremely important, certainly. But Ajax' star players are trained with the offensive footbal philosophy of the club. Sculpting the talents to perfection in both individual quality and disciplined teamplay is where the focus lies, so that each player knows their job in the system and plays there with confidence in any Ajax team and virtually anyone can get into a position to score. Hence why there's been years where there was no one top scorer, but four or five spread between midfield and strikers.
Since everyone is taught and grew up with the same system throughout the youth academy, you can relatively easily replace players with younger players once sold off. As they all play roughly the same due to be trained around positions, they can still find one another quite easily because they know what's expected of them and what to expect fellow players.
When you buy a team together for millions upon millions, you don't buy a system to go with them, with some exceptions aside due to smart player purchasing, you have to train them to work together as a team and fine tune them (while many of these players will be veteran diva's, too big ego for teamwork).
That's where Ajax' advantage lies.
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Reiziger wasn't some world beater, he simply won the Champions League with Ajax, played for Barcelona for 7 years and was a solid option for the Netherlands when they played some of their best football in recent times. No idea where you get the idea from that Mazraoui has the potential to be better 'for sure', it's quite a stretch. Plenty of times he's been one of the least good performers in this Ajax side, like for example when they won 1-4 against Real Madrid.
De Ligt and De Jong seem destined to become very high level players, but player for player the '95 squad was definitely a bit better, really don't know what gives you the idea it's the other way around. A guy like Neres is absolutely vital for this team because he is the one outlet up front with real pace, now that doesn't make him better or more talented than Marc Overmars for example...
First of all welcome to the forum - love Ajax as a club and nice to have more of their supporters on here.Outside of Rotterdam, Eindhoven, Den Haag, Utrecht, etc. of course.
The jealousy and inferiority complex levels within the Netherlands (and accusations of arrogance for bragging about club records and achievements) are so huge that many of the rival fans can't or won't:
- Ever visit Amsterdam, let alone the ArenA, not even for national team matches or concerts
- Refuse to ever say the word Ajax, instead refering to the city's phone netcode 020, or Ajakkes (word with a meaning akin to "icky").
- Feyenoord hooligans prefered Feyenoord to lose to FC Twente to ensure Ajax did not become champions. Going as far to enter their own clubs training grounds to intimidate their players that they should lose to FC Twente.
- Often can't accept a player who prominently played for Ajax
- Hate players, call them traitors and even threaten them if they went from certain clubs (Feyenoord in particular) to Ajax
- Note: only some hope they lose in Europe, even if it costs the rest of the league CL and EL entry tickets, because they can't stomach being told at work by a colleague what an amazing match it was the day before...
Outside of the Netherlands, I think everyone's in love though.
You tried that with LvG. Then you dumped him before giving him a chance to completely reformat the youth system and get the main team used to a high discipline, technical possession game. Instead, you had a bunch of veteran players not used to the system LvG had in mind.
IMO, they understood the basic idea of passing and ball possession to some degree, enough to execute it on a basic level. But they did not quite get the goal of the passing, nor had the experience with it to be creative with and exploit the triangles, or the confidence to do this playing forward. Then you get these side to side passes for possession with no initiative or goal, which some of the rebuilding teams of Frank de Boer also had.
Basically, as it wasn't routine for them, it takes concentration and effort to pull off. If there's not enough confidence, they just keep doing the easiest pass, which often is side and backwards, playing it safe. One of the hardest things to achieve is getting players to do this while playing forward.
Thing is, with Ajax, the core philosophy is what matters, not star players. Ajax can't afford to rely on one single player anyway, because that player will be gone the next year given the current financial situation in international football.
Scouting for youthful talents is extremely important, certainly. But Ajax' star players are trained with the offensive footbal philosophy of the club. Sculpting the talents to perfection in both individual quality and disciplined teamplay is where the focus lies, so that each player knows their job in the system and plays there with confidence in any Ajax team and virtually anyone can get into a position to score. Hence why there's been years where there was no one top scorer, but four or five spread between midfield and strikers.
Since everyone is taught and grew up with the same system throughout the youth academy, you can relatively easily replace players with younger players once sold off. As they all play roughly the same due to be trained around positions, they can still find one another quite easily because they know what's expected of them and what to expect fellow players.
When you buy a team together for millions upon millions, you don't buy a system to go with them, with some exceptions aside due to smart player purchasing, you have to train them to work together as a team and fine tune them (while many of these players will be veteran diva's, too big ego for teamwork).
That's where Ajax' advantage lies.
In response to your post, the idea behind getting LVG was kind of along the right lines for us but it was very badly thought out in retrospect. We got a manager who was behind the times in terms of possession play and his Dutch team in the World Cup was workmanlike rather than the free-flowing uber fast possession we see from modern coaches such as Pep/Klopp or even someone like Tuchel/Emery.
Just goes to show how stupid United are run at the top level, they finally somehow clocked on - hey we need to get better in possession, but instead of thinking whose the best modern manager who is well versed in modern theory on attacking possession play, they go for a relic whose peak years as a coach were in 1995 and in modern environment played in a stagnant outdated manner.
The rest of your post is a great insight into what makes Ajax tick and the second bolded part - for me is where United have gone wrong. A) Lack of a overarching philosophy has meant we are just buying players off the cuff without any proper thought as to how they fit into a modern style of play or fit with their other team mates.. there is a lack of vision B) just picking random big names - some way past their best, offering big contracts to mediocre players - thus turning the few hard-working players you have into spoilt egos , who behave in a manner beyond their ability level. Its a huge mess at United at the moment.
Entire club needs a reset button.
I love watching this team play. If the very small chance of us winning it does not transpire, I really really hope they do.
And feck modern football for the fact that this amazing team at such a club will be pulled apart within a couple of seasons. Such a shame.
And feck modern football for the fact that this amazing team at such a club will be pulled apart within a couple of seasons. Such a shame.
Reiziger was nothing special. He was pretty clueless with the ball. If you put reiziger in this ajax team they dont improve. Reiziger failed at milan and had the luck van Gaal was willing to buy all the Dutch players he could. And playing at barca during that period doesnt say much, those were the dark times for them. You can have all the critisism you want about mazroui, but the importance he played in ajaxs CL campaign, reiziger never even came close. If you cant see mazroui has more footballing abbility/talent, i dont know what to tell you.
Neres is more than his pace alone, he is a great dribbler, is real good at linking up with others and he is far more creative than overmars ever was. He is more talented than overmars imo.
Sort of shows the importance of focusing on process for long term results rather than short sightedly opting for a "whatever it takes to win right now" approach?
It's not that long ago we made them look like kids playing against men in a European final with our results-first Fellaini-based tactics. In the long run though their approach was building to something that ours never was.
It's not that long ago we made them look like kids playing against men in a European final with our results-first Fellaini-based tactics. In the long run though their approach was building to something that ours never was.
Whilst they don’t have 90m to spend on Lukaku....they just wouldn’t even think twice about giving Greenwood the chance instead. We can learn a lot from them. Instead of spaffing hundreds of millions of pounds we need to give youngsters adequate game time to develop...not 10 minutes here and there. Let’s include Greenwood, Garner, Gomez, Chong, Tuanzebe next year and treat/use them as squad players instead of youth prospects
Absolutely in my eyes.
Fits this team to a tee. Would be bang average on the wrong team.
Great fit for Klopp imho. Or Sarri.
This is the best football by any team in the whole tournament.
Sadly, they'll be picked apart by other teams. Just like Monaco fc.
Wish we could play like that but at the moment, I wish could do the basics right: pass/shoot/cross/off the ball movement etc.
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Davids was the best player to come out from that team. It's not even close
That said, those guys looked individually more talented than this batch on the whole, with the exceptions of De Ligt and De Jong, who do look more talented than any from that generation
Tadic=Vardy
De Lijt = Kante
De Jong = Mahrez
Van Der Beek = Drinkwater
Blind = Simpson
De Lijt = Kante
De Jong = Mahrez
Van Der Beek = Drinkwater
Blind = Simpson
They really are absolutely brilliant. And a big change compared to the usual underdogs that do a Cinderella story - they're doing it while genuinely playing the best and most complete football in Europe. They went away to Juve and completely outplayed them. Went to the Bernabeu and completely destroyed Madrid. It's not even like they're clinical, if anything the opposition had the luck of the bounce and the refs more on their side in both games, yet Ajax still dominated the games and created chance after chance.
Hope they do manage to win it. Can see a Barca - Ajax final and it would be funny to see Ajax beat them but then Barca buy both De Ligt and De Jong.
Hope they do manage to win it. Can see a Barca - Ajax final and it would be funny to see Ajax beat them but then Barca buy both De Ligt and De Jong.
This was sent to me by my Barcelona supporting friend.
It says: 2 years ago Ajax and Man Utd played in the Europa League final. Today Ajax is in semi-finals of the UCL and Man Utd not. Difference?
.
Ajax invested in young talents while Man Utd invested in Young's talents.
Think Litmanen was the best of the 90s generation, he tied it all together in the final third and had the biggest impact in terms of being both a creator and finisher. Just much less luck with injuries than Davids, Seedorf, Frank De Boer etc..
Tadic is the best of the current one from what i've watched of this team, maybe it would be different watching week in week out, but i've seen about 20 or so games and he usually stands out. He's at his peak right now and the best natural footballer of the lot, creating and scoring regularly.
Tadic is the best of the current one from what i've watched of this team, maybe it would be different watching week in week out, but i've seen about 20 or so games and he usually stands out. He's at his peak right now and the best natural footballer of the lot, creating and scoring regularly.
Dennis Bergkamp was the best alongside Litmanen but he left few years before the 1995 CL win..
Still think Spurs will beat them.
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It's not even rocket science what they do. The all move forward and stay that way passing it about. Everytime a player runs forward for united they get completely ignored, turn around and pass it back. It's frustrating.
That "philosophy" is ingrained into Ajax from youth levels up and it is repeating itself for centuries now.
Players are coached to attack, move and pass quickly.
On the other side I've watched some of our youngsters play in U23 etc this season and the quality of the football is quite atrocious I would say.
They have a "model" an idea on how they want to play the game disregarding the available players. That's what we need, stick to one thing and be the best at it.
Players are coached to attack, move and pass quickly.
On the other side I've watched some of our youngsters play in U23 etc this season and the quality of the football is quite atrocious I would say.
They have a "model" an idea on how they want to play the game disregarding the available players. That's what we need, stick to one thing and be the best at it.
This years Dortmund and Monaco. Unfortunately, I can see quite a few players moving on in the summer.
That the team is being plundered, is part of the game. But please leave our Social Media team where it is.
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