No way we concede less with him in goal. He's never been as good as DDG who can save a game by himself.
Alisson Becker | Budding Target Man
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Have a look at fbref if you want to see a proper analysis of the two keepers. Allison shits all over DDG on every metric.
That's kind of unfair given workloads. Ex Tim Krul has made 40 saves this season alone. Ederson so few he's not on the list.
Allison has a higher save percentage than ddg for example albeit marginal. Allison also has to be a lot braver with the ball hence the errors.
Oops forgot the quote, that was a response to cybermans stats.
Allison has a higher save percentage than ddg for example albeit marginal. Allison also has to be a lot braver with the ball hence the errors.
Oops forgot the quote, that was a response to cybermans stats.
I would much prefer Alisson in goal than De Gea... every day of the week.
@cyberman
Even if you wilfully ignore all the sweeper keeper stuff that DDG doesn’t do, look at the crosses stopped and save % and tell me he’s a better keeper than Allison. He’s clearly a level below.
He had one really bad game and all of a sudden he's shite....
There's no way anyone can argue that current De Gea is anywhere near him in terms of overall quality and contribution to the team.
There's no way anyone can argue that current De Gea is anywhere near him in terms of overall quality and contribution to the team.
He's really not. In fact his positioning is generally appalling.
This is ridiculous, we would concede considerably less goals with him in goal. Look at the difference in our defenders both defensively and their overall game with an offensive goalkeeper like Henderson in goal last season & then crank that up several levels with Allison and we'd see a much better defensive unit.
He is an exceptional goalkeeper, heck if people didn't see the ridiculous difference in standards two weeks ago when he was on the same pitch as De Gea then I don't know what people watch.
he's had a shite game, but he's normally solid, top keeper, love to see of those that don't rate him who they think are the better keepers in the League
In that particular game they could’ve played with a training cone as a keeper and not much would’ve changed to be fair.
Oh really? So Ronaldo and Fernandes both running clean through on goal in the first half before the game was out of sight wouldn't have scored past a training cone?
I’d have Allison over DDG without even thinking about the decision.
I remember the Ronaldo chance now, sorry. It wasn’t a serious comment and I probably shouldn’t have made it as the events of that game are getting actively repressed by my memory.
Yeah Allison is comfortably better at practically everything. The fact that he's got a better save % and performs better against post shot xg puts a lie to anyone claiming De Gea's shot stopping ability makes him a better keeper.
@cyberman
Even if you wilfully ignore all the sweeper keeper stuff that DDG doesn’t do, look at the crosses stopped and save % and tell me he’s a better keeper than Allison. He’s clearly a level below.
So Allison is shite now is he? Ok who are the better keepers than him in the league? I can't think of a single one.
That’s from the previous 365 days. Apparently Dave’s shot stopping has improved dramatically so far this season. I’m sure the City game improved it even further.
But yeah, the rest of it is clearly not good enough and vastly inferior to Allison (why are we all calling him by his first name anyway?!?)
Mendy? Not sure about Mendy's passing but shot stopping and crossing collection has to be up there. That said, I've not checked this out via statistical analysis and am going on eye test.
Mendy's advanced stats were pretty average last year - this year though he's gone up a level, already at +2.6 PSxG+/-. Cross collecting Mendy is good but not quite on the level of someone like Nick Pope or Thibaut Courtois.
The PL advanced keeping stats are in the link below
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepersadv/Premier-League-Stats
Allison is the best keeper in the league unfortunately but has bad games sometimes.
Ramsdale is one to watch as when on form he's good - strong at all aspects of the role
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepersadv/Premier-League-Stats
Allison is the best keeper in the league unfortunately but has bad games sometimes.
Ramsdale is one to watch as when on form he's good - strong at all aspects of the role
All those things, minus footage, are not proof of him not being overrated. In fact they're the very reason he is. Thanks for backing me up. His clean sheet awards - big whoop. That's Liverpool playing so well again.
If you actually watch full games, the footage says very different things, if you can look at him with an honest eye and not one that's been skewed my media and meaningless simplistic stats. Just use your eyes. Show me the footage if you like. I'm not interested in seeing his 1v1s. I've said he's good at those.
Our keeper genuinely was the best keeper in the world and saved us from being far far worse for a long time
So daft.
Literally no one has said it's one game. He's just made it extra obvious again so were talking about it. No one is arguing De Gea is currently better either. The whole thing has been about Alisson being overrated.
I tend to use my eyes when I’m watching football, thank you. The thing is — you’re stating quite a contrarian opinion that’s not based on any evidence aside from your personal assessment and accuse others of not providing enough evidence. That’s not how arguments work.
Stats aren't everything either. They're almost always completely devoid of any wider context.
They may prove he's decent. They don't prove he's not overrated.
He's being found out more now Liverpool don't play quite as well. Especially obvious when he lost his defence, which was apparently great because of his organisation.
And just to clarify, once again, I'm saying he's overrated. Not that De Gea is currently better, not that he is actually terrible, or that he's not one of the better keepers in the league. Just that he's overrated because of clean sheets, and Liverpool seemingly getting better over the entire pitch when he arrived (I mean come on).
It’s not just stats though. If we were arguing by only using his stats, it would be one thing. As for him being overrated — that depends on, we’ll, who is rating him. He was certainly one of the best — and the most complete keepers in the world for a couple of seasons. He has slowed down a bit since then and I don’t think that he’s among the very best in the world now, but he still is probably the best and the most complete keeper in the league at the moment. Ederson is also brilliant, but he’s more of a specialist. Is this overrating?
By the way, by individual awards I didn’t mean his clean sheet records, it should be always at shared with the defence (at least 50/50 — in Alisson’s case probably even more).
I'm yet to see much video evidence of him being as great as he's been made out over the years. Whenever I've asked for it I've been shown the same one save. I think he's actually quite average at most of it, aside from 1v1s, and that's been shown whenever he's actually been tested (Liverpool playing as well/worse defence).
One poor game doesn't change the fact he's one of the 3 best keepers on the planet alongside Mendy and Ederson. He's been phenomenal this season and saved them time and time again.
You’ll have to explain why stats which compare Allison with other keepers need more context in a discussion about how he compares with other keepers.
The over-rated thing is subjective to the point of meaninglessness.
Because it doesn't take in to account what's actually happened on the pitch behind those stats.
There was that guy who said De Gea played 960 pl games and someone else posted errors resulting in goals.
He's one of the best keepers in the league for one of the best teams and he and Van Dijk are crucial to everything they have done well over the last few years. All you need to do is watch what happens when Adrian plays to know how important he is to them.
He may be overrated but there aren't many better keepers out there right now.
Just like almost all 'keepers, he has flaws that sometimes are better exposed than others. Ederson isn't great positionally. De Gea doesn't like coming out for crosses. Pope gives the ball away with his kicking all the time. Just think if you're hoping for the perfect goalkeeper you're always going to find things to criticise.
Yup. Scores high on just about every ‘nip-stuff-in-the-bud-before-it-implodes’ metric out there. Aside from Oblak who’s been operating in his own tier the last 4-5 years, I don’t see anyone else to top Alisson.
I don’t watch Italian football but would Donnarumma run him close? He was seriously impressive in the Euros.
Interesting the way Serie A seems to be so good at churning out the best keepers.
I don't watch much Italian footy either but I agree this guy was awesome at the Euros. Maybe not the best with the ball at his feet but one could live that when considering how good the rest of his game looked. Has a massive frame and reach and fantastic at saving pens. Can imagine he comes and catches any high ball into the box no problem.
Just checked his stats on fbref and they’re a good bit worse than Allison’s for everything (except saving penalties)
Donnarumma has lost his place at PSG to Navas.
What? You want stats that do a worse job of isolating goalkeeping performances in order to compare goalkeepers?
Yeah Donnarumma is still quite inconsistent - understandable as he's still somehow only 22. Has all the tools to go down as one of the best ever though, but when he's on form as he was at the Euros he's formidable. Playing in such a settled team behind stalwarts like Chiellini and Bonucci definitely helped too - not all that surprising that he is taking some time to settle at PSG.
The whole point is that stats don't provide the wider picture. That's common knowledge. Stats will show he's saved x amount of long shots, you'll say he's great at them then. Yet in reality he's barely had one to save that's actually challenged him.
I'm sure you'll have a +/- xSgNa stat to 'prove' otherwise but they clearly don't take wider context in to account either.
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No one is using counting stats like long shots saved though? And again, unclear why you want more variables in the stats that are being used to objectively assess performance.
It's also unclear what wider context you want considered here?