All-Time European xi vs. All-Time South American xi

Baresi-Scirea
Baresi-Moore
Baresi-Beckenbauer
Scirea-Moore
Scirea-Beckenbauer
If only one of those has to play, it has to be Beckenbauer. Partner him with someone like Nesta and you are golden.

Facchetti - Nesta - Beckenbauer - Thuram for Zona Mista.
Facchetti - Maldini - Beckenbauer - Thuram is also an option.
Facchetti - Maldini - Beckenbauer - Thuram - Lahm for a back five.
Maldini - Nesta - Beckenbauer - Thuram for a flat back four.
 
The idea is to get the best out of Maradona, with 2 fast clinical strikers who can also spread the field when needed.
You lose a big chunk of Messi's running from deep as well as his playmaking ability though. If a fast clinical striker is what you need, rather go with Fenomeno in that role, he'll bring out his best in that position and absolutely shine with Maradona's service and Pele to play in tandem with.
 
I'd distinguish between best and greatest here. Buffon, Schmeichel, Kahn and co. were much better keepers than Yashin. What sets Yashin is apart is that he was just lightyears ahead of his peers at that time and is undoubtedly the most influential keeper of the televised era. It's the one position that's seen the most improvement since the 50s, without question, and Yashin played an absolutely pivotal role in that.

He didn't invent the sweeper keeper but he is the one who popularised it, and he's credited with establishing the role of the keeper as a defensive organiser too. From a technical standpoint there really was clear daylight between him and the rest and along with his leadership qualities he played a huge part in shaping the role of the modern goalkeeper.

It's fair to say that there's nothing modern keepers are doing that he wasn't doing half a century ago, whereas it's undoubtedly true that the great keepers before him weren't doing some of the things he was. The best keepers of today do everything better than he did - and anyone arguing otherwise is mad - but they don't really do anything new. That's his legacy.
That's a strange point of view. Are all top modern footballers better than Pele/Di Stefano etc? They have new training, diet, regime, tactical innovations going for them. It's pointless to compare players of different generations based on that - you should consider how good he was in the football of his time. And Yashin is widely regarded as the best keeper of all time, on every list out there - mostly because of Ballon D'Or, but still
 
My Euro xi:

-------------------------Schmeichel
---------------------Nesta--------Baresi
Vogts-------------------------------------------Maldini
-------------------Rijkaard-----Beckenbauer
---------------------------Platini
---Best-------------------Eusebio-------------Cruyff

South American xi:

-------------------------Ronaldo
------------------------------Pele
----------Maradona---------------------Messi
----------------------------Falcao
-------------------Varela
N.Santos---------------------------------D.Santos
---------------Da Guia-------Figueroa
-----------------------Julio Cesar

Euro:

- Schmeichel. Goalkeeper is the position that has constantly improved throughout the history of the game and has a linearity to it that I don't think the outfield positions have; for me the choice was between Buffon, Kahn and Schmeichel for goalie, and if I did this exercise again in a few years' time, probably also De Gea, too. I chose Schmeichel with Ronaldo in mind as I don't think a keeper who stays on their line and allows Ronaldo to run further and further into the danger area does themselves any favours whatsoever. Ronaldo was a master at rounding keepers whether they came out or not, but, with Schmeichel, I'd hope the seed of doubt that this guy is going to press high more often than not could create an element of doubt or a need to make decisions earlier than he'd [Ronaldo] like, this is with it in mind that Nesta is bearing down on him, too.

- Nesta. For me, the best pure CB Europe has ever had. I take him over Kohler for his abilities to better match Ronaldo stride for stride and give the Brazilian much less time to think or react whilst on the ball. In turn, that gives Barsei more time to read the play and marshall his troops regarding everything else going on around them.

- Vogts in because, verses these tiny, hyper technical attackers, you need someone with a low center of gravity who, even if duped, can recover quickly and doggedly tracks his man. Normally, I'd put Thuram in at RB, but I think Messi is a bad match for him because of the standing starts and his ability to rapidly turn out with the ball - it only takes a slip or wrong-footing of a taller man for them to be taken out of the game.

- Beckenbauer in midfield. I feel he's better utilised harming the opposition than containing them and playing out from the back. Beckenbauer can easily stake a claim to be in the running as the greatest midfielder Europe has ever seen. To put him in there, I had to take out one of my favourite players of all-time in Neeskens and also removed Matthaeus from the running, too. None of them had the utter control, grace and ability to implement an idea, pass or run or link play at Beckenbauer's level, and it's that overall control and ability to draw the opposition in that I want from that position.

- For my money Platini has no equal for passing in Europe (Schuster, and especially Netzer being the closest), nor for his free kicks. He's a devastating opportunist when the situation asks that of him too, and, when he drops back, the South American defence have to cover space because he can find any exploit and hit the pass to an onrushing Eusebio or Cruyff in an instant.

South America:

- Di Stefano out. This is probably the most dominant personality ever seen on a football pitch. To make him work in a side, all must yield and be his pieces to do with as he pleases. I see that causing more problems than it solves. I also think it delimits the talent of the rest of the side, furthermore, Maradona and he are just a timebomb waiting to go off during the game. Others may see it differently and say that intelligence and synergy could overcome ego, but we're talking about two of the biggest egos ever seen in the game, too, with different ideas of how the game should be played and little to no reason to make the necessary concessions you'd want for a side like S.A to play the dream football we'd all envisage of them.

- Passerella out. You can't have Maradona and Passarella in the same team... it's one or the other, and Diego is the superior talent.

- Maradona, Pele & Messi in the same side. I still think this is a big risk. I agree with those who say Pele and Messi, and their maleable styles, both familiar with playing in star-studded sides and making it work, are an easier and functioning duo, but Maradona is the elephant in the room on whether he would 'play ball' as it were as well as get on with others who can take his limelight away or outshine him in a given moment. Maradona is being made to sound like an arsehole, but it's not a case of that, but rather, his style demands a lot of the ball and a lot of TLC: I don't know if he'd slot in, but I have far more belief that he could than Di Stefano, so would be willing to give him a go rather than take him out.

- Pele. His position isn't set in stone. Not sure what to call the formation with him in it.

- Da Guia. A blast from the past. If not him, I'd have either Luis Periera or Thiago Silva next to Figueroa.

- D.Santos. I feel he frees Messi to do what he does best. He doesn't provide the endless overlapping of Cafu, but he does mean Messi can conserve energy and focus more on harming the opposition with forward actions rather than tracking back. I have Falcao on that side for the same reason.

- Julio Cesar. I will always take the modern keeper over the older ones. It's the only position on the pitch that has a lineal evolution, imo, so Cesar's short peak is enough for me over Fillol or Mazurkiewicz.
 
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You lose a big chunk of Messi's running from deep as well as his playmaking ability though. If a fast clinical striker is what you need, rather go with Fenomeno in that role, he'll bring out his best in that position and absolutely shine with Maradona's service and Pele to play in tandem with.
Yeah I am not looking for the current playmaking version of Messi anyway. For me the 2012, 91 goal scoring Messi is the gold standard in finishers. Factor in his ability to drift/start from wide right and I would pick him above Ronaldo here.
 
Too many good players to choose from you could easily make 2/3 very good teams that could beat each other.
 
Yashin
Thuram Baresi Beckenbauer Fachetti
Rijkaard
Platini Matthaus
Cruyff
Puskas Van Basten
 
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For me it would be

South America:

Chilavert
Cafu -- Figueroa -- Passarella -- Santos
Redondo -- Falcao
Di Stefano
Messi -- Maradona -- Pele​
vs

Shmeichel
Thuram -- Beckenbauer -- Nesta -- Maldini
Rijkaard -- Neeskens
Puskas ------- Platini -------- Best
G.Muller​
 
Would go with:

------------Yashin----------------
Thuram---Baresi--Beckenbauer---Maldini
------------Rijkaard---------------
-------Cruyff-----Matthaus---------
Puskas---Van Basten---Best

The key point is I'd argue that the strength in depth is much better in Europe and so could make an equally good 'B' team.

------------Zoff----------------
Vogts---Moore--Scirea---Facchetti
------------Makelele---------------
-------Zidane-----Platini---------
Matthews---Eusebio---Ronaldo

And could even have a 'C' and 'D' team from the immense quality still not mentioned above...
 
That's a strange point of view. Are all top modern footballers better than Pele/Di Stefano etc? They have new training, diet, regime, tactical innovations going for them. It's pointless to compare players of different generations based on that - you should consider how good he was in the football of his time. And Yashin is widely regarded as the best keeper of all time, on every list out there - mostly because of Ballon D'Or, but still

I think that's different, personally. Many people disagree but I look at di Stéfano, Pelé, Cruyff or Beckenbauer and don't see them as inferior to current players. If you compare di Stéfano and Ronaldo for example, you can say that in their first 7 seasons at Madrid they had a comparable goalscoring record in the European Cup. 46 goals in 51 games for di Stéfano vs. 75 in 71 for Ronaldo. On top of that you can say that di Stéfano excelled at many areas that Ronaldo doesn't - dictating the game, opening up defences, defensive contribution and all-round teamplay. That to me is why they're comparable across generations.

For Yashin that's not true. His clean sheet records and personal accolades will hold up to others but when you compare the technical skills, he's absolutely miles behind the keepers of today. If he put him in this era with a better diet, lighter balls, better goalkeeper protection and proper gloves he'd be a better keeper than he was then, no question. He wouldn't be at the same level as de Gea though because technically he's just not at his level. Whereas I think you could drop Pelé into this era and his technique and physique would still put him right up there with the best players in the world.
 
- Passerella out. You can't have Maradona and Passarella in the same team... it's one or the other, and Diego is the superior talent.

Why's that? My immediate thought is they'd be no clash whatsoever.
 
That's a strange point of view. Are all top modern footballers better than Pele/Di Stefano etc? They have new training, diet, regime, tactical innovations going for them. It's pointless to compare players of different generations based on that - you should consider how good he was in the football of his time. And Yashin is widely regarded as the best keeper of all time, on every list out there - mostly because of Ballon D'Or, but still

I wouldn't say every list, if you google best goalkeeper of all time from all the lists that come up on the first page alone, sure Yashin tops a few but on the ones i checked strangely Casillas seems to top more (i wouldn't even have Casillas in my top 5) and obviously Schmeichel is rated as No1 in others.
 
Here's a Reserves South American XI omitting the names mentioned so far, and basically everyone from Brazil/Argentina:

rcsamb-formation-tactics.png


Would love watching that attack!
 
Why's that? My immediate thought is they'd be no clash whatsoever.

He's referencing the fact that they both had a history of disliking/disagreeing with each other, culminating in the 1986 World Cup in which Maradona replaced the ageing Passarella as captain of the team with the latter leaving the camp prior to the tournament commencing.

It's irrelevant to this process though as far as I'm concerned. Lots of players or nationalities have a history of disliking each other and I don't think those considerations hold much sway in a discussion such as this.
 
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Would go with:

------------Yashin----------------
Thuram---Baresi--Beckenbauer---Maldini
------------Rijkaard---------------
-------Cruyff-----Matthaus---------
Puskas---Van Basten---Best

The key point is I'd argue that the strength in depth is much better in Europe and so could make an equally good 'B' team.

------------Zoff----------------
Vogts---Moore--Scirea---Facchetti
------------Makelele---------------
-------Zidane-----Platini---------
Matthews---Eusebio---Ronaldo

And could even have a 'C' and 'D' team from the immense quality still not mentioned above...

I'm not sure who's strength in depth is better, but South America's is immense. Even their 6th team is brilliant.

SA 1st XI:
Fillol
Cafú Santamaría Figueroa N. Santos
Falcao Varela
Messi Pelé Zagallo
Ronaldo​

SA 2nd XI:
J. César
D. Santos Pereira T.Silva R. Carlos
Andrade Monti
Zico Maradona
Batistuta Romario​
SA 3rd XI:
Mazurkiecwicz
Zanetti Ruggeri Passarella Marzolini
Ardiles Redondo
di Stéfano
Garrincha Erico Joya
SA 4th XI:
Taffarel
C.Alberto Nasazzi Da Guia Junior
Cerezo Zito
Moreno Perdernera Loustau
Labruna​
SA 5th XI:
Gilmar
Alves Lúcio Ayala Branco
Didi Mascherano
Jairzinho Tostao Rivelino
Suarez​
SA 6th XI:
C. Bravo
Jorginho Gamarra Aldair Leonardo
Gérson Dunga
Zizinho Rivaldo Ronaldinho
Ademir
That's without even including the likes of Neymar, Aguero, Crespo, Verón, Riquelme, Cambiasso etc.
 
I usually love stuff like this, but creating "all time XI's" are always difficult. The XI only include "modern" players, hence why i don't involve Pelè, Yashin etc, simply because they're way to old for me to have experienced. Even youtube seem to have forgotten a lot about them. That's why lots of GOATs are on the bench, and not in the XI.

Europe XI:

Screen_Shot_2016_04_01_at_12_57_25.png


Bench: G. Müller, Yashin, Xavi, Hierro, Thuram, Maldini, Best


SA XI:

Screen_Shot_2016_04_01_at_13_03_53.png


Bench: Pelè, Fillol, Dunga, Garrincha, Jarizinho, Di Stefano, Varela


I think that the European XI would win by quite a margin, because of the defensive flexibility and organizing. Ofc the SA XI will have the most brilliant flair players, but i fear that the balance will be disrupted by a "give me the ball, and i'll take it from here" attitude.
 
He's referencing the fact that they both had a history of disliking/disagreeing with each other, culminating in the 1986 World Cup in which Maradona replaced the ageing Passarella as captain of the team with the latter leaving the camp prior to the tournament commencing.

It's irrelevant to this process though as far as I'm concerned. Lots of players or nationalities have a history of disliking each other and I don't think those considerations hold much sway in a discussion such as this.

I thought something like that must have been the case.
 
Would go with:

------------Yashin----------------
Thuram---Baresi--Beckenbauer---Maldini
------------Rijkaard---------------
-------Cruyff-----Matthaus---------
Puskas---Van Basten---Best

The key point is I'd argue that the strength in depth is much better in Europe and so could make an equally good 'B' team.

------------Zoff----------------
Vogts---Moore--Scirea---Facchetti
------------Makelele---------------
-------Zidane-----Platini---------
Matthews---Eusebio---Ronaldo

And could even have a 'C' and 'D' team from the immense quality still not mentioned above...
You can easily make 10 elite sides in a row for either continent, and where S.A will start to fade at the back, Europe will start to fade offensively.

I don't think either one has more strength over the other.
 
strangely Casillas seems to top more (i wouldn't even have Casillas in my top 5) and obviously Schmeichel is rated as No1 in others.
Just had an argument about Casillas on the russian sports website. For me he is at the bottom of top 10, if even, he simply never reached the peak level of Schmeichel or Kahn or even today's De Gea (although he is, of course, should be rated higher than him as of today because of his consistency, longevity and impact in the success of Spain NT). He received 5 consecutive IFFHS goalkeeper of the year awards, due to the unprecedented success of his national side, which is more than Bufffon, Schmeichel, Chilavert and Neuer has ever received - that probably boosted his reputation. Although he, of course, deserves all the credit for the incredible defensive records of Spanish national teams in the play-offs, and Robben's save in the final was as important as Iniesta's goal.

@Brwned
Can't agree about Yashin and his lack of technique/agile/whatever compared to today's keepers
The keeper's job was also so much harder those days - when the ball could've easily broke your fist/hand if you made a slight mistake, and if you caught the ball at the lacing side it was very painful, according to the keepers themselves.

Here, take a look at the game which probably won him the Ballon D'Or in 1963:



Especially that save at 36:10 :lol: Credit to @Joga Bonito
 
SA 2nd XI:
J. César
D. Santos Pereira T.Silva R. Carlos
Andrade Monti
Zico Maradona
Batistuta Romario​
T Silva and Periera?? They don't hold a candle to the likes of Chumpitaz or Melendez. Jose Nasazzi, captain of the first World Cup winning team also overshadows anything they've done.

There are clearly the 5 giants of SAM defending : Figueroa, Santamaria, Passarella, Da Guia and Nasazzi. Then the likes of Chumpitaz, Ruggeri, Melendez, Godin, Silva etc come in. Further domestic giants like the Peruvian master Delgado and Quintano (The Schwarzenbeck to Figueroa's Beckenbauer) deserve to be mentioned.
 
You can easily make 10 elite sides in a row for either continent, and where S.A will start to fade at the back, Europe will start to fade offensively.

I don't think either one has more strength over the other.
In my opinion, SA's squad is quite shaky in midfield. Falcao is as good as any other midfielder ever; Didi is one of the greatest playmaking midfielders ever. But apart from them, who do we have? Redondo, Monti, Varela, Andrade, Gerson, Zito, Dunga? They all were world-class players, but not even close to GOAT level, imo. While Europe have, when we count defensive and box-to-box midfielders, Matthaus, Rijkaard, Beckenbauer can be used there, Breitner, Masopust, Van Hanegem... and the list goes on - Bozsik, Ocwirk, Neeskens, Keane etc.

In attack Europe has:
- Muller, Van Basten, Puskas, Kocsis as n.9
- Cruyff, Meazza, Baggio, Eusebio, Ronaldo, Rummenigge, Kubala as different forwards
- Platini, Charlton, Zidane, Iniesta, Laudrup, Suarez as attacking midfielders
- Best, Dzajic, Matthews, Figo, Nedved as wingers

No part of European squad is as this as South American midfield
 
I don't think there was any real quality differential between Falcao and Redondo. Certainly nothing significant enough to have them in a different tier.

I think Europe probably does have greater depth in central midfield but I don't think the examples highlighted are great ones - IMO the likes of Gerson and Varela are comparable in terms of quality to Breitner and Masopust.

It does however look to me like Europe has a much deeper pool of players in that secondary tier - just from the UK/Ireland you have the likes of Keane, Souness and Robson who were all at least as dominant as some of those South American midfielders listed. I think we could comfortably name 50 European midfielders as good as Dunga for instance.

It's noticeable that Xavi isn't mentioned either and when the dust settles on his career I think he'll be held in higher esteem that any South American midfielder, including Falcao/Didi/Redondo. Time will tell there however.
 
For Yashin that's not true. His clean sheet records and personal accolades will hold up to others but when you compare the technical skills, he's absolutely miles behind the keepers of today. If he put him in this era with a better diet, lighter balls, better goalkeeper protection and proper gloves he'd be a better keeper than he was then, no question. He wouldn't be at the same level as de Gea though because technically he's just not at his level. Whereas I think you could drop Pelé into this era and his technique and physique would still put him right up there with the best players in the world.

I see what you mean, but I don't quite agree with that reasoning. Yashin's position was less developed - and the average skills needed for that position likewise - than Pelé's to begin with. Pelé appears on the scene much later into the technical development (the ability to control and manipulate a football with your feet was an art developed for more than half a century at that point, whereas the keeper was largely a neglected figure in terms of technical development (you had isolated, idiosyncratic cases of players displaying more progressive traits, but they were eccentrics almost - not products of an overall development) before Yashin.

And if the above is factored in, it becomes a different matter. To me, you have to imagine him not only with better diet, lighter balls, better protection and gloves - but also with the added benefit of having your talent polished by modern methods and specialist coaches, starting from a significantly higher step on the ladder, if you will.
 
Redondo, Monti, Varela, Andrade, Gerson, Zito, Dunga?
Plenty more.
Falcao, Didi, Gerson, Zito, Dunga, Clodoaldo, Cerezo, Danilo, Mauro Silva
Redondo, Alonso, Monti, Ardiles, Cambiasso, Mascherano, Rattin, Rossi
Andrade, Varela, Goncalves, Bengoechea, Matosas, Gestido
Cueto, Benitez, Challe, Velasquez, Vidal, Diaz, Marcos, Valderrama, Rincon, Solich, etc.

Of course Europe has a lot more nations to pick players from so it's not really a fair comparison to go into the depth but as far as quality for the top teams go there's nothing in it. I can pick 10 or more pairs from there who'd give any European duo an absolute run for their money. There are WC winners, Libertadores winners in there. A Goncalves led Penarol for example defeated the Real Madrid team in 1966 in the IC Cup.
 
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I see what you mean, but I don't quite agree with that reasoning. Yashin's position was less developed - and the average skills needed for that position likewise - than Pelé's to begin with. Pelé appears on the scene much later into the technical development (the ability to control and manipulate a football with your feet was an art developed for more than half a century at that point, whereas the keeper was largely a neglected figure in terms of technical development (you had isolated, idiosyncratic cases of players displaying more progressive traits, but they were eccentrics almost - not products of an overall development) before Yashin.

And if the above is factored in, it becomes a different matter. To me, you have to imagine him not only with better diet, lighter balls, better protection and gloves - but also with the added benefit of having your talent polished by modern methods and specialist coaches, starting from a significantly higher step on the ladder, if you will.

I'd say that's an entirely fair point but what you're then doing is imagining a different player altogether and that's a stretch too far for me. That's too many layers of hypotheticals for me to appreciate who that player then is. I'd liken it to comparing pre-30s and post-30s players - they're basically playing a different game at that stage. So I prefer to keep it simple and just say that Yashin is the greatest, by a significant margin, and Buffon is the best.
 
Chilavert
Cafu - Passarella - Figueroa - Nilton Santos
Redondo - Di Stefano
Maradona
Messi - Pelé - Ronaldinho​

That much quality upfront is unfair, nothing tiki-taka could do.
Fat Ronaldo up front surely, rather than Ronaldinho?

Some other contenders would be Zanetti, Samuel, Roberto Carlos, Dunga and Heurelho Gomes.
 
I don't think there was any real quality differential between Falcao and Redondo. Certainly nothing significant enough to have them in a different tier.

I think Europe probably does have greater depth in central midfield but I don't think the examples highlighted are great ones - IMO the likes of Gerson and Varela are comparable in terms of quality to Breitner and Masopust.

It does however look to me like Europe has a much deeper pool of players in that secondary tier - just from the UK/Ireland you have the likes of Keane, Souness and Robson who were all at least as dominant as some of those South American midfielders listed. I think we could comfortably name 50 European midfielders as good as Dunga for instance.

It's noticeable that Xavi isn't mentioned either and when the dust settles on his career I think he'll be held in higher esteem that any South American midfielder, including Falcao/Didi/Redondo. Time will tell there however.
I think the problem with depth in relation to Eurocentric considerations is going by those whose legend is known in Europe, when, there are many, many others who are legendary on the S.A. continent that not much is known about on these shores.

Some midfielders for consideration who are easily peered with Europe:

Sastre, Toninho Cerezo, Zizinho, Andreolo, Alberto Terry, Cueto, Sotil, Victor Benitez, Jose Velasquez, Modesto Bria, Ruben Marcos, Vidal (the active current one), Mascherano, Simeone, Riquelme, Dirceu, Paulo Cesar Caju, Denilson Custodio, Lazzatti, Dino Sani, Trobbiani, Fleitas Solich, 'El Charro' Moreno (could be played at AM), Norberto Alonso, Merlo, Martim, Alemao, Pampolini, Quintanilha, Veron, Jair, Lima, Carpegiani, Jorge Jose Benitez, Francescoli.

The list of players can go on, but the point is, there's more than enough talent pooled to make an almost endless amount of quality sides. It's at the back and especially at keeper where S.A. will fade quickly, but equally, or conversely, the same goes for Europe in attack once all the elite talents are thinned out the standard will drop similarly.

The caveat for South America is that many of these players didn't shine at NT level because their paths were blocked by even better players who have been mentioned by @Aldo there's also politics, too. Europe, with its multiple nations, would obviously give an equal talent pool more opportunities to shine, but, if those same names were concentrated in the same way S.A. teams are, many that are in the European football lexicon now wouldn't be so revered even though their talent was the exact same.
 
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Plenty more.
Falcao, Didi, Gerson, Zito, Dunga, Clodoaldo, Cerezo, Danilo, Mauro Silva
Redondo, Alonso, Monti, Ardiles, Cambiasso, Mascherano, Rattin, Rossi
Andrade, Varela, Goncalves, Bengoechea, Matosas, Gestido
Cueto, Benitez, Challe, Velasquez, Vidal, Diaz, Marcos, Valderrama, Rincon, Solich, etc.

Of course Europe has a lot more nations to pick players from so it's not really a fair comparison to go into the depth but as far as quality for the top teams go there's nothing in it. I can pick 10 or more pairs from there who'd give any European duo an absolute run for their money. There are WC winners, Libertadores winners in there. A Goncalves led Penarol for example defeated the Real Madrid team in 1966 in the IC Cup.
And how many of them can be considered GOATs in their position? Only Falcao and Didi, at least as I see it. As I said, a lot of world class players, of course, but if we compare it to Europe, they come short - and Falcao + Didi is not a very good pairing, imo.
 
Sastre, Toninho Cerezo, Zizinho, Andreolo, Alberto Terry, Cueto, Sotil, Victor Benitez, Jose Velasquez, Modesto Bria, Ruben Marcos, Vidal (the active current one), Mascherano, Simeone, Riquelme, Dirceu, Paulo Cesar Caju, Denilson Custodio, Lazzatti, Dino Sani, Trobbiani, Fleitas Solich, 'El Charro' Moreno (could be played at AM), Norberto Alonso, Merlo, Martim, Alemao, Pampolini, Quintanilha, Veron, Jair, Lima, Carpegiani, Jorge Jose Benitez, Francescoli.
Francescoli, Riquelme and some others are not the midfielders I'm talking about - SA has lots attacking ones, and probably more then Europe. You can also mention Bochini. But when we look deeper in the pitch, the quality and the quantity is significantly lower. Of course every team would be happy with Cerezo or Clodoaldo or Zito as their water-carrier but when he compare them to Rijkaard or Beckenbauer they really come out short.
 
I think the problem with depth in relation to Eurocentric considerations is going by those whose legend is known in Europe, when, there are many, many others who are legendary on the S.A. continent that not much is known about on these shores.

Some midfielders for consideration who are easily peered with Europe

I don't disagree that South America has many talented midfielders and there was some support for that view in my original response to harms.

You're going way overboard in the opposite direction though. I think it's unquestionable that the European contingent possesses far better central midfielders as a whole and I don't think some of the names you suggested even merit being mentioned in this context, in particular given the quality of the European counterparts.
 
The opinion will be popular on a United forum but won't be entertained anywhere outside.

I'm not sure if you're serious. What wouldn't be entertained outside of a United forum?

Here are the names you've mentioned:

Plenty more.
Falcao, Didi, Gerson, Zito, Dunga, Clodoaldo, Cerezo, Danilo, Mauro Silva
Redondo, Alonso, Monti, Ardiles, Cambiasso, Mascherano, Rattin, Rossi
Andrade, Varela, Goncalves, Bengoechea, Matosas, Gestido
Cueto, Benitez, Challe, Velasquez, Vidal, Diaz, Marcos, Valderrama, Rincon, Solich, etc.

My post was that Robson was "at least as dominant" as some of the South Americans listed and Dunga was highlighted as a particular example.

I don't think any sane football fan would disagree with that comment. He was a superior player or at least as good as the vast majority of midfielders listed there.
 
And how many of them can be considered GOATs in their position? Only Falcao and Didi, at least as I see it. As I said, a lot of world class players, of course, but if we compare it to Europe, they come short - and Falcao + Didi is not a very good pairing, imo.
I dunno about "GOATs" but maybe we can do it another way. If you can give me ten pairs and I'll see if I can match it. Varela is a sure shot "GOAT" as much as someone like Rijkaard for example and Varela and Redondo for example will shit on most CM pairs and match the top ones from Europe. Let's not forget Redondo by himself owned Keane and Scholes, treble winners in Europe at the time.
 
Francescoli, Riquelme and some others are not the midfielders I'm talking about - SA has lots attacking ones, and probably more then Europe. You can also mention Bochini. But when we look deeper in the pitch, the quality and the quantity is significantly lower. Of course every team would be happy with Cerezo or Clodoaldo or Zito as their water-carrier but when he compare them to Rijkaard or Beckenbauer they really come out short.
There's a number of deeper midfielders in there, too.

Why do you think the quality is lower? What names are you comparing them to? Rijkaard and Beckenbauer are 1st team picks, they don't really belong in this discussion. I also think the consideration of what a deep-lying midfielder does, expertly, in many S.A. teams needs to be taken into account here as we're talking about teams and functionality not just individual marvels. S.A. has more specialists at DM, for example than Europe has - proper, flawless grunts that endlessly recycled the ball to the more talented players studiously and without fail - that role has less merit in Europe, as opposed to how we have a lot more powerful ball-carrying dynamos ala Neeskens, Matthaus, Keane, Robson et al who aren't really of much use in a number of S.A systems so weren't developed in the same way.

It's pointless to directly compare what either continent does or does not have in this sense without looking at the systems used and what was asked of the player in question.

S.A. doesn't need CM's, hence why they have so many expert DM's and AM's, and they're not weak in either department there.
 
I don't think any sane football fan would disagree with that comment. He was a superior player or at least as good as the vast majority of midfielders listed there.
Yes, that opinion is pretty much filled with United bias, sorry.
Same goes for someone like Gerrard. Club legends, sure but that's about it.

I said the same in the 'greatest European Footballer' thread where the likes of Giggs and Dalglish were being rated highly. Ask your average Spanish football follower for example to rate them in Europe's history and you'll be in for a surprise. British players aren't rated half as much outside Britain as they are inside.
 
I don't disagree that South America has many talented midfielders and there was some support for that view in my original response to harms.

You're going way overboard in the opposite direction though. I think it's unquestionable that the European contingent possesses far better central midfielders as a whole and I don't think some of the names you suggested even merit being mentioned in this context, in particular given the quality of the European counterparts.
I think my last reply directly answers your post, too. If you're looking at names to light up a teamsheet alone, you're doing S.A a disservice, imo.

They have a nea endless supply of what they need in midfield.