Forgot how to write that out properlyWell aren't you a short little focker ey, says the 5'10" person
Alternatives for Frenkie De Jong
- Thread starter redIndianDevil
- Start date
We might have to just accept improving on what we have rather than getting a ready made top talent this summer. I think any combination of Tielemans, Kante, Bissouma, Neves, Fabian Ruiz or several others improve on what we've had, alongside maybe bringing Garner into the mix. I actually still believe Fred could be excellent here with a good partner and a more well coached disciplined Bruno in front of them
I agree completely that de Jong's primary forte would be in moving the ball forward, at which he excels. But from what I've seen, he does that not by spraying balls forward from a deep position, but rather by getting involved in forward movement himself, with a mixture of ball carries and smart passes. Which he can't if he's going to be the deep anchor in the midfield pivot. As I see it, the main division of labour isn't playmaker/ball-winner - for one thing because "playmaker" is something you do with the ball while "ball-winner" is something you do without the ball.
The way I'd put it is you need one player A who provides deep cover when out of possession and who ideally is a good playmaker when we're in possession, and one player B who is a good ball-mover (carries and mixed passes) in possession, and who is ideally also a good ball-winner when out of possession.
As I see it, neither Fred nor McTominay has a chance to be a credible player A, but at least Fred does actually look like a fairly decent player B. De Jong is essentially an upgrade on Fred in that role. He'd be wasted as player A. Which would mean that above all we still need player A here, de Jong deal or not.
I think we can maybe make do without a deep midfielder who is a great creative passer, given that both Lindelof and Maguire are pretty good at that. With more support from a good no 8 and systemic improvement like better movement up front, we might get more out of that than we have so far.
Never said it was, and that's not what "free" means in free agent. The "free" in free agent means they are not currently under contract with any other clubs.
And regarding the signing on fee, it really depends on what they negotiated. It's not unusual for a transfered player to also have a sign on fee (e.g. Haaland, Pogba), it depends entirely on their contract negotiation.
My concern with Guendouzi would be the disruption he seems to cause but maybe that’s limited to his relationship with Arteta.
I’m surprised you don’t think his playing qualities qualify him for comparison. His progressive carrying and passing are both superior to FdJ’s and he plays at a lower quality team relative to other teams in their league.
The summer that the fans where desperate for us to sign him and many 100% convinced we where going to get him despite the fact there was only vague sources that we were even looking at him and the chances are the whole thing was a fan fantasy with the media trying to cash in on the fans wanting him by creating articles and click bait .....that summer?Remember the summer of Vidal?
Yes, word is that one or two muppets are still watching Chilevision
Well at least they got over SniejderYes, word is that one or two muppets are still watching Chilevision
Is Saul Niguez a worthy consideration? I remember him being so highly rated and his move to Chelsea has been a disaster.
I think there are a real lack of alternatives to both Nunez and De Jong. In the event that we can't sign either of them, I would like to see us be creative and move for Amine Gouiri and Matheus Nunes. From the little I have seen of Nunes, he isn't exactly a like for like De Jong type. However he does share some of his attributes. I think ten Hag could do wonders with him. The player he reminds me of is İlkay Gündoğan.
Saul has been playing at a low level for 3 years. If he were at a good level Atletico Madrid would not get rid of him
Zubimendi as number 6 and Mikel Merino as 8, the 2 are at a great level, they wouldn't be cheap but would fit very well with Ten Hag.
Time to start looking elsewhere when this deal falls through. Seems petty obvious he's not coming. Plenty of good players left around that United could actually get. Without wasting way too much time on it.
Youth. Give our youth player the chance to stake a claim for a place. You always have Fred or Scott to take over if they show they aren’t ready and it’s not as if those two wouldnt play this season anyway.
I'd like us to try for Bellingham if FdJ falls through. They are maybe not that similar in style, but one of the few midfielders I would actually be hyped if we signed. He will probably be very expensive in the £100m+ range though.
Will be Ruben Neves or Tielemans. Thats who we have been consistently linked to if the FDJ deal was to fall through. Tbf, FDJ is such a one off player that there is no direct replacement for him. Its like getting a replacement for modric at madrid or veratti at psg. Aint going to happen.
I'm with you on that one. I would even entertain the idea of someone like Rabiot on loan with the idea of using Iqbal and Savage significantly. I'm not a fan of the more expensive alternatives.
Loads of people always call for throwing kids in to the team
No doubt if we did that and failed to make top 4 Ten Hag would get slaughtered for not making any signings.
Fred, McTominay, and a couple youth players are not going to have us competing with the best teams. Let's be realistic
Why not? Give them a chance at least. Is Tielemans or Neves going to be much better?
We literally got top 4 two years in a row with McFred in midfield. I don’t think playing talented youngsters beside Eriksen is any worse than that.
I honestly don’t think we can put top 4 on this elite pedestal after one of the worse races for 4th spot we have ever seen last season.
Eriksen and Zidane.
Maybe we should look at DM instead.
Maybe we should look at DM instead.
No way in hell he leaves. Maybe next season if we get CL but he’s destined to join Liverpool since those players are always telling him to come.
You just made me cry, why would you do that to me.
Ten Hag doesnt make the signings, its Arnold, Murtough and the legal team, so he wont be slaughtered.
There is nothing wrong with playing academy talent as long as they are mature enough. Its not about age, its about their attitude. ETH is very good at assessing player's capabilties and he has a few tactical approaches, so there is no need to worry about how he deals with the players he has.
The playing field is very different to other years. City and Liverpool are at the peak of their projects, Chelsea are way ahead of us in their project, Conte's project at Spurs is aggressive and looks promising and you can't totally discount Arsenal. You can have as much faith in the kids as they want but using them plus McFred and a #10 in a pivot CM significantly weakens our top 4 chances as well as Ten Hag's project being successful.
There's positions you can gamble with kids like attack and fullbacks but midfield should be the last place to do so especially since it's been a problem for A DECADE
“Play the kids” in reality means 60 McT starts
Ten Hag gives the approval to make signings though. He vetoed Pau Torres for Lisandro Martinez and Murtough/Arnold have reportedly done the opposite of Woodward/Jose in 2018 and supported his targets and profiles so if we fail to sign a CM because of a "De Jong or nobody" strategy its on him if we fail to get CL football/
If the academy players are good then yes it`s good to play them but midfield has been a major major problem area since the Fergie Days thats the one position we can`t afford to be negligent with and put it on pedestal YET AGAIN. Good managers are all about flexibility if we cant get FDJ we have to sign someone else even if the profile and quality is different to give ourselves a better fighting chance in the PL and Europa League
I don’t think Chelsea are that far ahead, they only look like a distant third because of how horrible the race for top 4 was. They be seem to be scrambling for players that suggests there isn’t a rebuild to speak of under the new regime. Arsenal (!) were a last 3 game implosion away from overtaking them.
I think there’s a lot of thoughts pointing to last season being the be all and end all of where each club is and I just don’t buy it. Like your post excusing away a few seasons where we played well but nope, last seasons it and Conte WILL do this and that.
I just don’t believe it. There’s every reason to think we will improve as Spurs will.
If Savage continues like this then he's ready. Iqbal nearly, just needs to improve his decision making sightly but the skill and technique is there.
Alternatively, Jacob Ramsey.
Alternatively, Jacob Ramsey.
Tielemans please, he’d be great for us.
Poor man's Pogba
There is no alternative that is anywhere close to him in terms of ability and that is the problem. If there was, we would have most likely moved on weeks ago.
Is fabian ruiz really not that great?
There is an alternative to Frenkie, that's why we've bought Erisken. The alternative is not a single player, but a whole different midfield setup with, maybe, more of a DM at the base and Eriksen and Bruno around him.
Either United pursue FDJ for longer (which I think they're doing), he comes and ETH uses him in a very "functional" ( feck this absolutely cringe football terms) midfield 3 with no stable DM(Eriksen, FDJ, Bruno/DVB/whoever), or he doesn't and ETH will go for a classic DM which is easier to find.
In regards to FDJ's style and quality, I agree, there is no other CM with his traits.
Yes, I think the plan is to play a midfield three of De Jong, Eriksen and Bruno. The signing of Eriksen is irrelevant to whether De Jong arrives or not.
I agree with you in the sense that De Jong is a complete one off, so we may well have to pursue a more classic defensive midfielder. Either that or sign someone like Matheus Nunes and try to mould him into Frenkie De Jong basically.
UK journos only ever look as far as the Premier League when suggesting alternatives. Neither really make sense for what we need. In Tielemans case, we have Eriksen who does everything he does and is better at it. Neves isn't a Ten Hag type single pivot as he isn't as good defensively as say Alvarez. So far it seems like Ten Hag wants to go back to a double pivot rather than single.
Agreed, FDJ is unique in how EtH wants him to play. I don't see a direct replacement that can do the same thing. We would have to look for a different path. Sangare and Ruiz for the same price as FDJ make more sense. Sangare is better defensively and Ruiz is a big upgrade technically on McFred this year then reassess next year. Sangare, Ruiz, Garner and Fred would be much better and McT can go for me. We don't have a huge pot of cash left. We need a RB and CF too, if Ronaldo finds a club.
I wonder if Bayern would be willing to part with Musiala? I'd also be happy with Kouadio Kone and Sangaré as an alternative to Frenkie.
Nigel de Jong, for all those people calling for a physical DM. Bit of both, everyone happy right?
There aren't many players in world football that can do the job we are buying De Jong to do, only ones that comes to mind are Jorginho, Modric and Verratti. If we can't get him we either need to look at another midfield setup or try to form one of the youngsters into the player type we are looking for.
The logical decision is for Barca sell him for 60-80m euros now (minus the money they owe him), rather than spend millions paying his wages, blocking potential first team recruits, and FDJ goes to a club ahead of the WC that wants to build a side around him.
If neither side blinks (and both lose), we won’t know until late in the window. Given how much we seem to want him, I’d imagine we’d come back with a lower/ similar offer in January.
If neither side blinks (and both lose), we won’t know until late in the window. Given how much we seem to want him, I’d imagine we’d come back with a lower/ similar offer in January.
Theres a player who just signed for an Italian team who would be great for us if we could play him in his proper position…