I guess the alternative is Fred
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Alternatives for Frenkie De Jong
- Thread starter redIndianDevil
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If we were to miss out on FdJ, I'd love to see us go for Ismael Bennacer at Milan. Good defensive awareness and very elusive in possession with great passing and carrying ability. Think he would complement someone like Fred until he's upgraded over the next few transfer windows.
He was linked earlier today from a report in Italy with van de Beek potentially going the other way in part exchange. Not seen much on it since so assume it wasn't a decent source.
Do people really think these two are the level we are aspiring to? If so, why aren't any of the clubs currently at that level interested in these players? As far as I can tell Arsenal and no one else wants Teleimans, and no one wants Neves.
Not that many clubs are after De Jong either to be fair.
We are far from the level we are aspiring to. We can get these two to atleast try and bridge the gap right now. They are 200 times better than McFred. We just cant always try to get the best out there when we are languishing midtable and in Europa league.
Another good shout Bennacer
Very different reasons for that.
Agreed, they'd be marginal improvements on McFred but probably less dynamic. Also, although Tielemans is quite young at 25, he's been playing 2000+ minute seasons since he was 16. He has 23k minutes played in professional football which is more than 29 year old Paul Pogba. All that mileage could add up and explain his waning powers.
Why is it so difficult to find a suitable midfielder?
Search technique, vision, passing ability.
Italian>German>Spanish>South American>Rest
Search technique, vision, passing ability.
Italian>German>Spanish>South American>Rest
I’d have loved Tielemans a couple of years ago, but he wasn’t great at all last season. Neves is decent but I’m not sure he’s mobile enough for an ETH side.
They’re both better than McTominay, obvs, but surely there must be players abroad who are more promising, a better fit and cheaper?
Donny or Eriksen are the men to play alongside Fred if we don't get Frenkie. They'll be press resistant and Donny can put in a shift along with Fred.
Neves is nothing special, Tielemans is a good player but McFred, Tielemans, Neves and de Jong are basically 5 different type of players so you can't really compare them.
McFred is the worst midfield in the league.
Not even close
He won't cut it.
Not gonna waste my energy arguing with you
Good decision.Not gonna waste my energy arguing with you
It's not the worst but it's also quite comfortably the least impressive of the top 6.
Usual shit you expect on here
Tielemans for me, perfect alternative, and about 50m cheaper alltogether
Seen this mentioned a few times since he signed, did Eriksen play in a two at Brentford, can’t recall ever seeing him play there
Comparing them to top 6 is actually a compliment for them. People really have short memories. Only until last year basically every midfield dominated the pair.
Well I expect these kinds of responses from people who don't watch the games. Name worse midfields than this and we can talk. Even Norvich gave us a good game at OT.Usual shit you expect on here
FDJ looking more unlikely by the day, so we might as well go for a younger option who still has upside and we can develop in the long term. We should have a look at Kouadio Kone, think he might have been one of the names RR suggested. Tall, progressive dribbler, passing can improve but will get better as he develops and is also physical.
Good overview of him here
https://breakingthelines.com/player-analysis/kouadio-kone-a-diamond-in-the-rough/
Good overview of him here
https://breakingthelines.com/player-analysis/kouadio-kone-a-diamond-in-the-rough/
I couldn't think of a worse alternative
Agreed
Good ol' contrarian Caf. If prime Xavi was available you'd have some saying he was the worst midfielder in the world just for the sake of disagreeing with the consensus.
Jacob Ramsey.
he doesn't dictate play at all, which is what this thread is about.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but posting this right after a Tielemans discussion is risky.
On to the next point, if the Caf is contrarian and a laughable opinion becomes the consensus, wouldn't the Caf's subsequent contrariness become a virtue?
Xavi? Get out of here, he would never cut it in a physical league.
why? Tielemans is a great passer, neat at binding it all together, works hard.
Tielemans is a good player, but Ndidi or similar might be a better fit for what we need.
There will be better value elsewhere though.
There will be better value elsewhere though.
Hense why I said him and neves.
Tielemans is just a bit soft. Inconsistent too. Not a fan even though he does have lovely technique.
Ndidi for real? Are you serious? You do realise the manager is Ten Hag and not Jose right
He has never played in a midfield 2 in his career other than late in games if his team are behind and need a goal. Always a midfield 3 or on the wing.
But one of the reasons why we got Eriksen is that he can carry the McFred midfield. Eriksen plays a lot deeper than people think, often receiving the ball from the central defenders deep inside his own half.
Remember Spurs. Dembele, Dier, Vanyama, Sissoko. Not exactly midfielders that are known for their passing ability.
Brentford used him in a midfield 3 with Vitaly Janelt and Christian Nørgaard. A DM and a semi-DM.
Eriksen can’t play in a midfield 2 because he is extremely lightweight. He is honestly worse than Bruno and Mata defensively. I don’t think people realize how poor Eriksen is defensively. He pretty much wont get stuck in…
I disagree, we should be looking at players that at elast have the potential to be developed into the level we are aspiring too, other wise what happens in two seasons, we have yet more players we wish to sell?
Same token to be fair though....its funny how obsessed many are with technical ball playing midfielders for us to sign yet many dont rate these two when it is what they are good at.....yet I keep reading about how we can make do with plenty of the options we have. Eriksen isnt a deep lying midfielder to play alongside someboduy like DeJOng, Fred being press resistant....I cant belief people are saying that, he absolutely crumbles and makes mistakes playing deep under and pressure at all with the ball at his fee, where on earth are thos comments coming from and McTominay also is decent driving with the ball, but he isnt press resistant at all and then peopl ementioning VDB....yes he has been press resistant over the last season as its hard to be caugt in possesion of the ball when you are anomynous for the majority of the game.
I get the feeling Ten Hag had DeJong in mind and some of his alternatives may well have been English players mayve a Phillips (glad that ended quick the links), Rice or Bellingham but he has een the prices are ridiculous. It seemt to me, its DeJOng or bust in the transfer market for the type of player he wants to have there as he alluded towards developing players we have if he cant find the player(s) he wants.
That is fair enough to me, do think we have possible options fo rthat role idevelopment wise in the shorter term.
Stranger though is our still complete lack of targeting a proper sound defensive midfielder, especially in the premiership and I dont really see any options for that role with what we have, lets not name Savage for example afer two preseason appearances
If the choice is between playing McFred for another year or two or get these new players now albeit not elite quality, I will always go for the latter. As you said, a little press from the opposition and McFred midfield is exposed. Fred cant make a simple 5 yard pass under pressure. McTominay goes hiding, never makes himself available as a passing option.
Regarding the statement about selling players, in a couple of years when we need to sell players, it will be these two rather than Youri or Neves. It's a basic process of incremental upgrades on your squad. You dont have to make extreme jumps from turd(McFred) to elite.
When we do get best midfielders out there we will also have able backups. The sooner we get rid of players with whom we will never ever win anything the better.