Ancelotti Sacked

Blackwidow

Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
7,771
Lots of people on here seem to be OK with players getting the boss sacked. I can imagine the fireworks if four or five United players had turned against SAF :nono::lol::wenger:
Because the players did not get the boss sacked. The quote of Hoeneß was misinterpreted as he just said that with the starting eleven against Paris he got himself five more enemies.

That does not mean that the players were satisfied with the training, playing system or how Ancelotti handled the team - or that there weren't big problems or that every player backed Ancelotti.

The club made the mistake - they already knew about the problems at the end of last season - but the results were (still) ok. They hoped it would get better - Rummenigge talked about a turnaround like the one Heynckes did in his second year... They put Sagnol in as an assistant coach - and later Brazzo as a "watchdog" and to play communicator between team, coach and bosses. But when they saw it did not get better but got worse instead - that now the results were even getting worse they acted.
 

Nostradamus

Can’t even predict the past
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
389
Bit of a strange situation for a club that's been very meticulous wrt. their planning in recent years. If the senior players had reservations about Ancelotti's methods, he shouldn't have been afforded a second season. Really doubt they'll be able to find a good medium term manager while the season is underway. Dunno what Hoeneß and their decision-makers will do with the Enrique links, but I'd consider the season a wash in terms of the European competition, keep Sagnol as an interim (or give someone else a rolling contract) and try to concentrate on domestic honors. Then make Pochettino or Sarri an offer they can't refuse in the summer. Both of them are exceptional trainers (which was a reportedly a concern under Carlo) - and primed for a step up to the absolute elite with Sarri's Napoli playing some of the most exhilarating football in all of Europe - very much in line with the kind of positional play Pep professed. Pochettino is probably the better choice of those two, though: way more cosmopolitan than Sarri, young enough to build the medium term future around while they refurbish the squad given the decline of some landmark players, and seems to suit their apparently preferred 4231 tactic with a measured mix of defensive resolve and cutting edge in attack. Even though I admire Nagelsmann - and for all you know he could be the next Lattek, he doesn't quite seem to be ready and could do with more experience.
It was a relatively logical decision that time, as the two thought he would be the perfect coach to make a few adjustments and then they are more stable and ready to win the CL and that Carlo won the CL with Real was proof enough for them. A little bit like what Heynckes did, when succeeding van Gaal.

They hugely underestimated the whole situation though, as the team was tactically on top after Louis, Jupp and Pep and Carlo's teams were never known for intense pressing and attacking early as a complete team. It started with Klopp in Germany and Jupp was smart enough to recognize, that there is only one solution to have a chance against a TEAM like Dortmund. EVERYBODY must work their socks off and nobody is allowed to be lazy. The result was that machine that won the triple in 2013. Then Pep came and developed the team even further and did the micro-management with all of them.

IMO its a nightmare to be Pep successor and an old school coach like Carlo is the total opposite of Pep and exactly that was not needed. I just can imagine the rolling eyes of all of them being part of a pre-pressing-era-training and all the important stuff they have learnt all not needed anymore. What a terrible decision by them. They are getting senile and I cannot remember being that scared for the future ever before. Reschke gone, that laughable DoF topic that ended in hiring a clown like Brazzo instead of Lahm, cos he wanted too much power. I was a big fan of Hoeneß for decades, but nowadays he really makes me sick and I m starting to despise him. Whenever he opens his mouth I could start to puke.

If these senile idiots hiring somebody else than Tuchel or Nagelsmann, then there is no hope anymore. I rate Pochettino and Sarri, but they are both not available and not needed. Enrique must be a bad joke. One game was enough to see, that Sagnol must leave his seat ASAP.
 
Last edited:

Balu

Der Fußballgott
Joined
Dec 2, 2010
Messages
15,102
Location
Munich
Supports
Bayern Munich
Bit of a strange situation for a club that's been very meticulous wrt. their planning in recent years. If the senior players had reservations about Ancelotti's methods, he shouldn't have been afforded a second season. Really doubt they'll be able to find a good medium term manager while the season is underway. Dunno what Hoeneß and their decision-makers will do with the Enrique links, but I'd consider the season a wash in terms of the European competition, keep Sagnol as an interim (or give someone else a rolling contract) and try to concentrate on domestic honors. Then make Pochettino or Sarri an offer they can't refuse in the summer. Both of them are exceptional trainers (which was a reportedly a concern under Carlo) - and primed for a step up to the absolute elite with Sarri's Napoli playing some of the most exhilarating football in all of Europe - very much in line with the kind of positional play Pep professed. Pochettino is probably the better choice of those two, though: way more cosmopolitan than Sarri, young enough to build the medium term future around while they refurbish the squad given the decline of some landmark players, and seems to suit their apparently preferred 4231 tactic with a measured mix of defensive resolve and cutting edge in attack. Even though I admire Nagelsmann - and for all you know he could be the next Lattek, he doesn't quite seem to be ready and could do with more experience.
Just give it to Tuchel, he's an excellent manager. There's no real downside to it. If Tuchel, Hoeness and/or Rummenigge start fighting with each other during the season, we can still look for someone else in the summer. But I'd be surprised if they can't make it work for at least 2 years.
 

Invictus

Poster of the Year 2015 & 2018
Staff
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
15,308
Supports
Piracy on the High Seas.
Just give it to Tuchel, he's an excellent manager. There's no real downside to it. If Tuchel, Hoeness and/or Rummenigge start fighting with each other during the season, we can still look for someone else in the summer. But I'd be surprised if they can't make it work for at least 2 years.
Yeah, you're right. He would make sense given the current coaching climate, I guess. Tactically suave, meticulous, German, young - dunno that much about the circumstances his exits from Mainz and Dortmund apart from the superfluous details (moreso for the latter which was more acrimonious), but he would be a good short term appointment at the very least - like you mentioned in that post. Dunno if this twitter link is credible, but given Tuchel's admiration for Guardiola, maybe it's done and dusted already?
Then again, Pep is mates with Lucho as well.
 

Balu

Der Fußballgott
Joined
Dec 2, 2010
Messages
15,102
Location
Munich
Supports
Bayern Munich
Yeah, you're right. He would make sense given the current coaching climate, I guess. Tactically suave, meticulous, German, young - dunno that much about the circumstances his exits from Mainz and Dortmund apart from the superfluous details (moreso for the latter which was more acrimonious), but he would be a good short term appointment at the very least - like you mentioned in that post. Dunno if this twitter link is credible, but given Tuchel's admiration for Guardiola, maybe it's done and dusted already?
I really hope it is. Always wanted him as Pep's successor and was pretty annoyed that the timing didn't work out and he ended up on Dortmund's bench.
 

Bepi

Full Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Messages
3,903
Location
Italy
Supports
Juventus
That said, Bayern lost the plot when they de-germanised themselves and hired Guardiola. Arrogance ultimately destroyed them both. We should now expect some sort of roots rediscover and they will be fine again sooner than later.
Jupp the T1000 is back :cool:

Ein Prosit, ein Prosit
Der Gemütlichkeit.
Ein Prosit, ein Prosit
Der Gemütlichkeit.

Oans, zwoa, drei, g'suffa!

:D
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
15,643
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
which is my point. sorry but it's disgraceful if players got ancelotti sacked
You make it sound like you believe everything was full of sunshine in Munich until the evil evil players decided to fire Carlo.
When the reality is that there was little reason to be satisfied with him and key players being very dissatisfied could've just as easily been the final straw.

Guardiola/Heynckes was/were allowed to send Gomez packing despite a ridiculous goal return from him, Mandzukic (who did very well for Heynckes) followed him quickly after things didn't work out for him with Pep, who also happened to retire Schweinsteiger and marginalize Götze without much of a fuss from the bosses. Van Gaal got to send away Lucio after they had an disagreement over the latters role.
Had Ancelotti been successful at Bayern the story would've been similar for him, but he wasn't so the management sided with the players and not with someone whose days were numbered anyway.
 
Last edited:

Scarlet Spider

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Messages
158
It is fascinating now that Bayern's expectations are so high that anything less than success in Europe is deemed a failure - given the lack of competition in their own country.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
15,643
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
It is fascinating now that Bayern's expectations are so high that anything less than success in Europe is deemed a failure - given the lack of competition in their own country.
Bayern were threatened with dropping out of both domestic competitions by the end of this month as well as finishing behind PSG in their CL group being all but certain, without mitigating factors like showing promising football or giving youth a chance.
That's why they felt like they needed a change, not some sort of irrational ambition regarding Europe.
 

Blackwidow

Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
7,771
I have a question to the ones that watched Ancelotti at Paris, Real or Chelsea - how big was the factor Paul Clement there?

Today it is more common to have coaching teams with head coach and assistant - sometimes with additional staff - that work together for different clubs. I know that van Gaal had his Jonker at Bayern who was important, too - and Bayern just paid 1.75 million EUR to get Peter Herrmann, Heynckes' assistant coach, out of his former contract with 2nd league leader Düsseldorf.