Ander Herrera Revisited

Cassidy

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He wasn't dropped. He was injured and only got fit again for the Chelsea game late in the season.
Didnt remember him being injured. He was definately injured before Watford. But between Watford and Chelsea there was no official injury from what I remember but could be wrong. This was around the time also when he had agreed/was talking to PSG
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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This is absolute bs, and not true. Utd messed him around and didn't open any talks. They extended him the year before a year without discussing it with him, and when the year was up they didn't consult him until the last minute.
Thanks for this inside track Mr. Woodward or are you his agent? Quit acting so overinformed.

I said his contract was rather obviously handled terribly; we should have extended the asset as we did with the deadwood we’re now lumbered with.

Extending contracts by a year is commonplace; given what he offered it was a stupid thing to do but if he found the option offensive don’t sign a contract with it in.

What we do know is he was at some point offered a contract which he rejected choosing to move elsewhere; from the reports [if we can believe them] he was playing out his contract whilst making his mind up which is his right but don’t come the club man when you left for PSG.

Didn’t open any talks. Didn’t consult him till the last minute. Both speculation, will happily change my opinion if you can back those statements up with fact but I’m not talking newspaper reports by journos that can be debunked as falsifiers in minutes. We as fans aren’t privy to exact dates of anything concrete in contract talks; but we do know he had an offer at some point then rejected it.
 

stevoc

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This is such a tiresome argument.

He was a bit part player under Mourinho and wasn't valued in the slightest by the club. He played his way back into the side (like he did pretty much every season of his United career) after Ole came in and Ole wanted to keep him.

The stories were that United offered him a pay decrease while PSG offered him an eye watering contract. A loyal servant he may be but he's not an idiot.
I’d be interested in seeing those reports from what I remember it was widely reported United offered him £200k a week more than doubling his previous wage.
 

fezzerUTD

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Thanks for this inside track Mr. Woodward or are you his agent? Quit acting so overinformed.

I said his contract was rather obviously handled terribly; we should have extended the asset as we did with the deadwood we’re now lumbered with.

Extending contracts by a year is commonplace; given what he offered it was a stupid thing to do but if he found the option offensive don’t sign a contract with it in.

What we do know is he was at some point offered a contract which he rejected choosing to move elsewhere; from the reports [if we can believe them] he was playing out his contract whilst making his mind up which is his right but don’t come the club man when you left for PSG.

Didn’t open any talks. Didn’t consult him till the last minute. Both speculation, will happily change my opinion if you can back those statements up with fact but I’m not talking newspaper reports by journos that can be debunked as falsifiers in minutes. We as fans aren’t privy to exact dates of anything concrete in contract talks; but we do know he had an offer at some point then rejected it.
Pretty much this.

All those saying he got the club do understand that he had a contract offer at United [where it’s obvious he would have played more] but left for more lucrative pastures. The club handled his contract negotiations terribly & I actually don’t blame him for chasing the money but he did just that.

I’ve never gotten the cult following this guy gets when others are so easily berated. He’d be a great option off our bench these days though but he’s not the difference between where we want to be & where we are so I hope he enjoys the Parisian lifestyle.
Sorry Mr Speculation wheres the proof he would have earned more?
 

POF

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Like I said earlier I went to a few games towards the end of that season and Herrera was really poor. One game I saw he was completely schooled by Doucoure who many feel isn’t Utd quality. He was subbed. Says it all!
He was just coming back from injury. Played twice and was out injured again. For a player who was pivotal to the run of improved form under Ole, why would he get dropped after one or two poorer games? The fact he wasn't even on the bench again until the Chelsea game says it all really. He was injured.

Didnt remember him being injured. He was definately injured before Watford. But between Watford and Chelsea there was no official injury from what I remember but could be wrong. This was around the time also when he had agreed/was talking to PSG
He wasn't even on the bench in between those games. He was a key player up to that point. If he was dropped, he would have surely made the bench at least.

I’d be interested in seeing those reports from what I remember it was widely reported United offered him £200k a week more than doubling his previous wage.
I think Castles may have been one source who quoted the salary reduction. There was more than one. I guess we all remember the "widely reported" stories as the ones we believe more likely to be true.

The club gave him a really classy send off while the club captain skulked away in the background. It didn't seem like a player who rejected a major financial offer because he was a money grabber.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Sorry Mr Speculation wheres the proof he would have earned more?
Fair point. Still waiting on your answers though Woody.

Let’s remove the value of his contract, something I’m willing to say I don’t know [how refreshing] what we do know is he was offered a contract at some point & chose to leave despite getting the club.

Over to you Ed. . .
 

fezzerUTD

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Fair point. Still waiting on your answers though Woody.

Let’s remove the value of his contract, something I’m willing to say I don’t know [how refreshing] what we do know is he was offered a contract at some point & chose to leave despite getting the club.

Over to you Ed. . .
-https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/ander-herrera-opens-up-disagreements-22155266

And Herrera has admitted he took the choice to leave United as he did not feel valued by the club during the negotiation process.

"It was not about money," Herrera insisted to The Athletic. "It was not about the duration of the contract offer. In my opinion, I waited too long (for an offer) and deserved more attention from the club.

"I was a player that gave everything. I never complained. I never went to the media to complain about anything. I never put a bad face to any manager, to any member of the board, and they waited until I had five or six months left on my contract.


"That’s why I had some disagreements with them."

Asked whether he would have extending his contract had an offer come sooner, Herrera replied: "Yes, absolutely. I thought they were going to come two years before my contract finished, like most other clubs do."

Carry on pal calling me Ed. I know I look a idiot for writing facts.
 

stevoc

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I think Castles may have been one source who quoted the salary reduction. There was more than one. I guess we all remember the "widely reported" stories as the ones we believe more likely to be true.

The club gave him a really classy send off while the club captain skulked away in the background. It didn't seem like a player who rejected a major financial offer because he was a money grabber.
I genuinely hadn't heard the pay cut rumour but after a quick google it seems every report of the pay cut cites Castles as a source. The rumour that he turned down £200k a week to stay at United was widely reported with the source being Forbes. We can't know for sure but i highly doubt United would have offered him less than the £80k he was on to stay.

I have no problem with Herrera running down his contract and leaving even if money was the main motivating factor. But i think his view that he felt disrespected because the club didn't offer him a new contract in only the 3rd year of his existing 5 year contract seems a bit silly. Especially when you consider that United do that with almost all their players. DeGea was only offered a new deal in the last 18 months of his contract. If the club offer Pogba a new deal that will also fall into the same time frame as his contract is up in 2022. Rashford signed a new deal with only 12 months remaining on his previous one. So I don't really understand why Herrera expected to be offered a new deal in only his 3rd season at the club. I wonder if the arrivals of Lukakau and Sanchez in late 2017 on massive pay packets unsettled him.
 

fezzerUTD

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I genuinely hadn't heard the pay cut rumour but after a quick google it seems every report of the pay cut cites Castles as a source. The rumour that he turned down £200k a week to stay at United was widely reported with the source being Forbes. We can't know for sure but i highly doubt United would have offered him less than the £80k he was on to stay.

I have no problem with Herrera running down his contract and leaving even if money was the main motivating factor. But i think his view that he felt disrespected because the club didn't offer him a new contract in only the 3rd year of his existing 5 year contract seems a bit silly. Especially when you consider that United do that with almost all their players. DeGea was only offered a new deal in the last 18 months of his contract. If the club offer Pogba a new deal that will also fall into the same time frame as his contract is up in 2022. Rashford signed a new deal with only 12 months remaining on his previous one. So I don't really understand why Herrera expected to be offered a new deal in only his 3rd season at the club. I wonder if the arrivals of Lukakau and Sanchez in late 2017 on massive pay packets unsettled him.
In my post above the quotes from him himself "I was a player that gave everything. I never complained. I never went to the media to complain about anything. I never put a bad face to any manager, to any member of the board, and they waited until I had five or six months left on my contract."

He had less than 6 months left. No debate he said it himself.

Also if a player is in the +1 year the club activates, which is usually agreed by BOTH parties, they cannot make money on him like they would within the normal contract time frame. (I know you never said otherwise but I just thought I'd add it)
 

POF

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I genuinely hadn't heard the pay cut rumour but after a quick google it seems every report of the pay cut cites Castles as a source. The rumour that he turned down £200k a week to stay at United was widely reported with the source being Forbes. We can't know for sure but i highly doubt United would have offered him less than the £80k he was on to stay.

I have no problem with Herrera running down his contract and leaving even if money was the main motivating factor. But i think his view that he felt disrespected because the club didn't offer him a new contract in only the 3rd year of his existing 5 year contract seems a bit silly. Especially when you consider that United do that with almost all their players. DeGea was only offered a new deal in the last 18 months of his contract. If the club offer Pogba a new deal that will also fall into the same time frame as his contract is up in 2022. Rashford signed a new deal with only 12 months remaining on his previous one. So I don't really understand why Herrera expected to be offered a new deal in only his 3rd season at the club. I wonder if the arrivals of Lukakau and Sanchez in late 2017 on massive pay packets unsettled him.
The post directly above yours has a quote from Herrera himself stating that United did not even discuss a new contract with him until 5-6 months from expiry.

The timeline makes sense. He wasn't in the team or in Jose's plans. He played his way back into the team under Ole but by the time he'd earned his spot as a key player, he was free to talk to other clubs. PSG offered him a huge deal, he took it.

He left on good terms, the club gave him a nice send off. I don't know why some want to paint him as a mercenary. He clearly wasn't.

At United, the manager still has a huge say in the make up of the squad. The old manager didn't want him. The new one did but the timing didn't work. It was too late and he left for free. C'est la vie.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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-https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/ander-herrera-opens-up-disagreements-22155266

And Herrera has admitted he took the choice to leave United as he did not feel valued by the club during the negotiation process.

"It was not about money," Herrera insisted to The Athletic. "It was not about the duration of the contract offer. In my opinion, I waited too long (for an offer) and deserved more attention from the club.

"I was a player that gave everything. I never complained. I never went to the media to complain about anything. I never put a bad face to any manager, to any member of the board, and they waited until I had five or six months left on my contract.


"That’s why I had some disagreements with them."

Asked whether he would have extending his contract had an offer come sooner, Herrera replied: "Yes, absolutely. I thought they were going to come two years before my contract finished, like most other clubs do."

Carry on pal calling me Ed. I know I look a idiot for writing facts.
In my initial post that got you do het up, you highlight me saying the club handled his contract terribly yet you seem to want to argue with me as if I’m saying they didn’t.

All Herrera’s quotes prove are in his opinion he was offered a contract too late & had a bee in his bonnet because he wasn’t offered a contract 2 years before the expiry; an opinion I actually don’t blame him for.

If you remove emotion. He signed an initial contract which had a year extension at the end which the club exercised - the club offered him a contract later than he would have liked so he left. Again well within his rights to do so.

I’m not sure what the above quotes are meant to convey; he believes he gave his all for the club & was disappointed with how he was treated so he left [go back to my first post where I say he’s within his rights to do so].

He had a contract offer. He chose to leave. Neither are controversial statements. I said his contract was mishandled. So what’s the point of your tangents? Actually read what is written.

The quotes above say nothing about him not being consulted on the one year extension either btw but yes Ed, it’s all facts.

We should have extended his contract earlier & him choosing to leave is understandable - not sure what we’re arguing over here; he’s hardly going to do an interview saying PSG offered loads of money so I’m off. All I’m saying is if he loved the club & given the change in management he had more than adequate time to sign a new contract with us.
 

el3mel

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Thanks for this inside track Mr. Woodward or are you his agent? Quit acting so overinformed.

I said his contract was rather obviously handled terribly; we should have extended the asset as we did with the deadwood we’re now lumbered with.

Extending contracts by a year is commonplace; given what he offered it was a stupid thing to do but if he found the option offensive don’t sign a contract with it in.

What we do know is he was at some point offered a contract which he rejected choosing to move elsewhere; from the reports [if we can believe them] he was playing out his contract whilst making his mind up which is his right but don’t come the club man when you left for PSG.

Didn’t open any talks. Didn’t consult him till the last minute. Both speculation, will happily change my opinion if you can back those statements up with fact but I’m not talking newspaper reports by journos that can be debunked as falsifiers in minutes. We as fans aren’t privy to exact dates of anything concrete in contract talks; but we do know he had an offer at some point then rejected it.
The guy came on himself recently and said he left because the board left his contract talk to the last 5 or 6 months. He wasn't running down his contract. This is media BS.

https://www.goal.com/en/news/i-dese...-man-utd-departure/1rncu7w4hat001k69te5jizajm
 

Rightnr

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The revisionism in this thread is so strong, you'd have to wonder if some of you people are on Ed's payroll.
 

fergie_god

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He was my favorite player at Utd during his time here and was one of the few players from that era who really appreciated and understood what it meant to be a United player. He would've been a great member of our squad in terms of being a great leader for the younger players and been happy being rotated.

He's much better than Fred and Mctominay and would've been the best out of those 3 at playing alongside Pogba but I do think he is still a very replaceable player in terms of on field ability.
 

stevoc

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In my post above the quotes from him himself "I was a player that gave everything. I never complained. I never went to the media to complain about anything. I never put a bad face to any manager, to any member of the board, and they waited until I had five or six months left on my contract."

He had less than 6 months left. No debate he said it himself.
In one of his interviews i read earlier this morning he'd said he had expected to be offered a contract before getting into the last 2 years of his current contract. Its really odd that he wanted to be offered a new deal way back in 2016-17. Which suggests he wasn't 100% settled for at least 2 years before he left. If you look into it United very rarely do that with any player, so i'm not sure why he expected to be offered a new deal so early into his existing one.

Asked whether he would have extending his contract had an offer come sooner, Herrera replied: "Yes, absolutely. I thought they were going to come two years before my contract finished, like most other clubs do."
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/ander-herrera-opens-up-disagreements-22155266

I think the club waiting until the last 6 months was fine seeing as we had just changed managers, and i also think it's fine that Herrera left. I just find some of his reasoning odd.

Also if a player is in the +1 year the club activates, which is usually agreed by BOTH parties, they cannot make money on him like they would within the normal contract time frame. (I know you never said otherwise but I just thought I'd add it)
Nope it is almost always United's option to exercise unilaterally in their contracts. If it required the players agreement then it would essentially be pointless wouldn't it.
 
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stevoc

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The post directly above yours has a quote from Herrera himself stating that United did not even discuss a new contract with him until 5-6 months from expiry.

The timeline makes sense. He wasn't in the team or in Jose's plans. He played his way back into the team under Ole but by the time he'd earned his spot as a key player, he was free to talk to other clubs. PSG offered him a huge deal, he took it.

He left on good terms, the club gave him a nice send off. I don't know why some want to paint him as a mercenary. He clearly wasn't.

At United, the manager still has a huge say in the make up of the squad. The old manager didn't want him. The new one did but the timing didn't work. It was too late and he left for free. C'est la vie.
Yep i'd agree with most of that, i don't think the club or Herrera did anything particularly wrong. He certainly wasn't poorly treated by United. As i said above i find some of his reasoning for leaving odd but i wish him well.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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The guy came on himself recently and said he left because the board left his contract talk to the last 5 or 6 months. He wasn't running down his contract. This is media BS.

https://www.goal.com/en/news/i-dese...-man-utd-departure/1rncu7w4hat001k69te5jizajm
Don’t think anyone believes he was running down his contract, he was in & out of Jose’s plans at the time his quotes say he wanted to be offered a contract though.

I just think the notion that he was offered a contract too late is a little off. From a personal perspective he felt undervalued which is fair & from a club perspective it was irresponsible to let his contract run down so far but he did have a contract in hand for 6 months that he eventually decided to reject; which he was in his rights to do.

He could however still be playing for the club if he really wanted to, yes he ideally wanted terms earlier but they were proposed with time on his deal.

He gave his all when playing, no matter how limited I think he was in areas, but his comments posted come across as he was annoyed 3 years into his 5 year contract.
 

hmchan

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This is such a misunderstanding of his game. He grew up in Spanish football where they move the ball. Players don't sit on the ball and ping it. It's short, sharp, intelligent passing where the ball circulates and players get multiple touches of the ball. It's no surprise he played better under Ole where the ball movement was sharper.

Herrera's actual range of passing wasn't great. He often couldn't execute the difficult through ball or a long pass but he usually saw the correct option.

Technically he's very good. His control of the ball is excellent. He's just a really good all rounder. Not outstanding in any particular area but a versatile player capable of doing a really good job in multiple roles.
I've watched plenty of Spanish midfielders in my life and none of them plays those coward passes like Herrera.
 

el3mel

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Don’t think anyone believes he was running down his contract, he was in & out of Jose’s plans at the time his quotes say he wanted to be offered a contract though.

I just think the notion that he was offered a contract too late is a little off. From a personal perspective he felt undervalued which is fair & from a club perspective it was irresponsible to let his contract run down so far but he did have a contract in hand for 6 months that he eventually decided to reject; which he was in his rights to do.

He could however still be playing for the club if he really wanted to, yes he ideally wanted terms earlier but they were proposed with time on his deal.

He gave his all when playing, no matter how limited I think he was in areas, but his comments posted come across as he was annoyed 3 years into his 5 year contract.
I can see his view. Waiting for the last few months in your contract to offer a new one sends a message that you're not a priority for the club and not that needed in the future. Actually waiting for the last year in any player to start contract negotiation is imo a wrong move, regardless of Herrera's situation himself. You should start tracking these contracts before they end by 2 years at least imo.

Him leaving isn't a big problem at the end as we managed to build a great midfield, as I said earlier, but we need to look at our contract negotiations tactics from now on imo.
 

stevoc

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I can see his view. Waiting for the last few months in your contract to offer a new one sends a message that you're not a priority for the club and not that needed in the future. Actually waiting for the last year in any player to start contract negotiation is imo a wrong move, regardless of Herrera's situation himself. You should start tracking these contracts before they end by 2 years at least imo.

Him leaving isn't a big problem at the end as we managed to build a great midfield, as I said earlier, but we need to look at our contract negotiations tactics from now on imo.
Thats United's policy with almost all their players though and has been for years, Jones, DeGea and even Rashford were into the final year of their contracts before signing a new one.
 

el3mel

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Thats United's policy with almost all their players though and has been for years, Jones, DeGea and even Rashford were into the final year of their contracts before signing a new one.
Being our policy for a long time doesn't mean it's actually true.
 

el3mel

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Sorry what?
It's not true for me that's all, regardless of it being the club's policy or not. We had to look into it again.

Beside the examples you give doesn't mean it's a true policy. Players from the academy like Rashford will always have no issue renewing regardless of time of contract offering. De Gea was in a situation in which staying at United is better than leaving, as no other big club was interested and he was offered a giga money here he will never get anywhere, and as for Jones, ok, no reason to talk about him really.

Can you imagine Pogba's and his agent's reaction if we offer him the new contract in his last 5 months of the current one ?
 

stevoc

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It's not true for me that's all, regardless of it being the club's policy or not. We had to look into it again.

Beside the examples you give doesn't mean it's a true policy. Players from the academy like Rashford will always have no issue renewing regardless of time of contract offering. De Gea was in a situation in which staying at United is better than leaving, as no other big club was interested and he was offered a giga money here he will never get anywhere, and as for Jones, ok, no reason to talk about him really.
But it is true that United leave it very late to renew players contracts isn't it?

Are we getting our wires crossed and i'm misunderstanding your use of the word true?

Can you imagine Pogba's and his agent's reaction if we offer him the new contract in his last 5 months of the current one ?
I don't think we would wait until the last 6 months no, but then Pogba isn't Herrera and vice versa.
 

hmchan

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But it is true that United leave it very late to renew players contracts isn't it?

Are we getting our wires crossed and i'm misunderstanding your use of the word true?



I don't think we would wait until the last 6 months no, but then Pogba isn't Herrera and vice versa.
I guess he means "right" instead of "true".
 

el3mel

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But it is true that United leave it very late to renew players contracts isn't it?

Are we getting our wires crossed and i'm misunderstanding your use of the word true?



I don't think we would wait until the last 6 months no, but then Pogba isn't Herrera and vice versa.
Yeah seems though. :lol: I was saying the policy itself isn't the right way for me imo, not that what you said isn't true or anything.

No problem though. Cheers.
 

Foxbatt

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When a players contract is less than 6 months then he is free to talk to other clubs. Before that period officially he can't.
If United didn't offer him a new contract by then it's to everyone's understanding that he is not wanted.
Now, generally clubs would talk to players at least one year in advance. This is because they don't want them to go on a free.
If United didn't offer him a new contract within the one year by all accounts United didn't want him. It's obvious that he would go on a free and he would get a signing on fee too.
It probably was Woodward's fault.

Incidentally is he playing for PSG regularly?
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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I can see his view. Waiting for the last few months in your contract to offer a new one sends a message that you're not a priority for the club and not that needed in the future. Actually waiting for the last year in any player to start contract negotiation is imo a wrong move, regardless of Herrera's situation himself. You should start tracking these contracts before they end by 2 years at least imo.

Him leaving isn't a big problem at the end as we managed to build a great midfield, as I said earlier, but we need to look at our contract negotiations tactics from now on imo.
I agree.

He was not made to feel wanted by letting his contract run down how the club did & it gave a terrible message to the player but for someone that is spoken of as getting the club I don’t think he was hard done by.

We need to ensure contract negotiations are handled better going forward but we seem to have extended the contracts of the deadwood easily enough; I think his case is an extreme.
 

He'sRaldo

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At the same time, we shouldn't just endlessly renew deadwood, so I can see the club's view as well.

He wasn't wanted as much by Jose, so it makes sense we didn't renew. Someone like Jones who we did renew is bemoaned all the time, so it's not as easy as 'just renew everyone's contract regardless of status'.

That Ole came in later and wanted to keep him isn't something we could have predicted a year or two in advance. I think we got it right, especially since he's been crocked this season so would most likely have been deadwood for us anyway.
 
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He should have been offered a new contract when we extended him by a year. Once he was available on a free, he wasn’t worth the wages he was being offered by PSG.
 

WR10

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Fred is on the bench and doesn’t play much, a 50M flop (based on what we thought we got) - so no, absolutely not. I’d rather have Herrera and the Fred-money in the pocket. Not that I hate on Fred, but he’s a 5M player and not a 55 one. Would he start for any other Premier League-club, sure a few, not many unfortunately.
Yikes, some concerning lack of memory here. I suggest you scroll back in the Internet cafe forum for the first half of this season.
 

Sayros

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I've always read that he's making £300,000-a-week at PSG and that always seemed like a fake figure to me. I can't understand why he would be one of the highest earners at PSG at this stage of his career and his current role on the team. Does anyone know the actual contract he has over there?
 

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He was alright. Hasn’t been missed which speaks volumes.
You don't feel like he would have improved the return from the first half of the season? I do. Not a world beater but better than anyone we have in attacking midfield besides Pogba and Fernandes, and Pogba is being played deeper. Him over Lingard or Pereira would surely have meant more points.

That being said I'm happy we have Bruno and who knows what would have happened differently if we kept Herrera, so it's all good. But I miss him, he was my favorite player at the club.
 

stevoc

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And Solskjær has won it!
Yeah seems though. :lol: I was saying the policy itself isn't the right way for me imo, not that what you said isn't true or anything.

No problem though. Cheers.
No worries mate we've all been there. Yeah it isn't the ideal policy for me either but it's how the Club does it. So bearing that in mind i understand why they waited so long to offer Herrera a new deal, especially with the change of manager.
 

thegregster

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When he signed 32mil was a lot of money.

That's probably around the equivalent of 50-60mil these days?

He was a disappointment in my book in terms of his creative output. 12 goals and 17 PL assists is pretty poor over 5 seasons.

His work rate and effort made him popular but in reality he isn't missed.
 

wolvored

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Herrera was like Mata. He had the occasional game where he stood out, but nowhere near enough of them. Has he been missed?
 

POF

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Yep i'd agree with most of that, i don't think the club or Herrera did anything particularly wrong. He certainly wasn't poorly treated by United. As i said above i find some of his reasoning for leaving odd but i wish him well.
I don't think he was treated badly by United but I think United messed it up. They could have kept a really effective midfield player on a reasonably modest salary by locking him up earlier. They didn't rate him enough to do so and that was a mistake.

But, they've moved on and the quartet of Pogba, Matic, Fred and McTominay for 2 roles in the new system has done really well.

I've watched plenty of Spanish midfielders in my life and none of them plays those coward passes like Herrera.
An immediate pass back to the player who played it to him? Watch one minute of any Xavi game ever.