André Onana | signed for United | On a flight to NYC

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lex talionis

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Nope. Though we would function much better as a team.
Ok, let's play along.

"Much better" as in conceding fewer goals or "much better" as in scoring more goals...or both?

For a quick refresher, this is how we stacked up against City in terms of goals conceded and goals scored:

Goals Conceded
City 33, United 43

Goals Scored
City 94, United 58

A goalkeeper's primary but by no means exclusive responsibility is to prevent goals from being conceded, to keep "clean sheets". Our record of 43 goals is 10 goals worse than City's record and Dave has to take his share of the blame for some of those goals, such as the goal Benrahma scored when West Ham kept a clean sheet against us. But 43 goals conceded is the same number of goals conceded when we last lifted the PL trophy in 2013 and is only marginally worse than the 37 goals we scored in the PL title season of 10-11. For further context, Arsenal this last season, with the presumably modern keeper Ramsdale in goal, also conceded 43.

For a club to become a PL title winner, goals conceded needs to be closer to 30. But of course it's a team the defends well and I trust you will acknowledge that City have a vastly better side at every position than United.

Which leads to the next point -- goals scored. There is no fukking way that even if we had Ederson, let alone Onana, in goal this last season that our goal production would have increased by even 10 goals, let alone 36 goals. Apart from Rashford, who would likely not make the City starting XI, our front line was shambolic this season and as much as we might be tempted to explain it away on injuries, mental health issues, the difficulty of adjusting to the PL the sum of truth is that our front line was shocking and shambolic for most of the season. Even if we had Ederson or Onana spraying the ball smartly to our fullbacks if our front line can't do their job we're not scoring goals. Maybe we inch up a few goals on the back of a few inch perfect Route One balls to Antony or Rashford, but such a ball to Antony gets wasted as his movement was perfectly predictable and easy to defend. Maybe Rashford would have scored 2 or 3 more goals on top of his 17 PL goals but surely no one will argue here that Martial would have scored 10 more goals, Weghorst would have scored 5 or 6 goals or Elanga 3 or 4 goals. Whether it was lack of interest (Martial), lack of ability (Weghorst) or lack of whatever (Elanga), our goal scorers were vastly short of what was required and none of their deficiencies can be blamed on De Gea or even on our midfielders. Bruno is a bit inconsistent for my liking but is a fantastic attacking midfielder, Casemiro was a revelation after initial doubts seemed reasonable, and until Andy Carroll cut him down Eriksen was fantastic.

For a club to become a PL title winner, goals scored needs to be at least in the 80s and no keeper on the planet, or who has ever lived, would have turned Martial, Weghorst or Elanga into goal scoring machines. When you have a deficiency at CF you know what you need to do? Pick up a proper CF.

Bring in Obana and we will see smarter passes to our fullbacks, but if our RBs performed at the level they did most of this season opposing teams will invite the ball to our RBs, press the crap out of them and regain possession from them. But if we bring in Onana at the expense of bringing in a proven CF the 23/24 season will be another top four season, no PL title challenge anywhere to be found.
 

VP89

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He's also completely unsuited to the style of football our manager wants to play and is poor at every aspect of goalkeeping other than shot-stopping (where he is now only above average).
Immaterial when hes a free agent. Name better back up on a free.
 

Gandalf

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Dont we have that young GK already at the club ?
I would say yes, Kovar has shown great development and could be the long term solution but I think the plan for this season is most likely to loan him out again to get consistent minutes. There are some Sparta games from last season on YouTube and he clearly does a better job commanding his box than DeGea, he plays much further up too and his distribution is really strong both with his feet and also some excellent quick throws with real velocity.
 

Remember the geese

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Immaterial when hes a free agent. Name better back up on a free.
You don't sign someone who is completely unsuited to the way we want to play just because they are free. That goes for any player in any position. That's before you even get started on his unrealistic salary expectations.
 

VP89

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You don't sign someone who is completely unsuited to the way we want to play just because they are free. That goes for any player in any position. That's before you even get started on his unrealistic salary expectations.
You do when you don't have enough funds, and I've already addressed the salary point. He has an offer on the table that reflects his worth.
 

AndySmith1990

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Immaterial when hes a free agent. Name better back up on a free.
Backup players should still have the basic skills necessary to perform the instructions given to them. No sensible manager says feck it, we'll sign that plodder who is completely unsuited to the team just because they're "free" (will he not be paid a wage?)
 

VP89

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Backup players should still have the basic skills necessary to perform the instructions given to them. No sensible manager says feck it, we'll sign that plodder who is completely unsuited to the team just because they're "free" (will he not be paid a wage?)
Hes inadequate at playing out from the back but to insinuate he lacks basic skills of being a goalkeeper is outright daft.

Ten Hag himself was on board with keeping him as number 1 until recently it seems, so if push comes to shove and there is not enough funds, you won't find a better option.
 

Pass and Move

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Backup players should still have the basic skills necessary to perform the instructions given to them. No sensible manager says feck it, we'll sign that plodder who is completely unsuited to the team just because they're "free" (will he not be paid a wage?)
Weghorst?
 

The-Mezzala

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He signs this week. Massive upgrade on De Gea. Hojlund and maybe a Casemiro cover and a good window
 

Remember the geese

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"Much better" as in conceding fewer goals or "much better" as in scoring more goals...or both?
Both.
For further context, Arsenal this last season, with the presumably modern keeper Ramsdale in goal, also conceded 43.
This is an interesting comparison but perhaps not for the reason you believe it to be. You have acknowledged that Ramsdale conceded the same amount of league goals as De Gea, however we both know that in addition to this, Ramsdale also played his part in contributing to a side playing dominant, progressive football. He did this by being better in possession and more assertive in his actions than De Gea. He essentially helped his team sustain control in games. Also, you refer to the term "modern goalkeeper" in a condescending way. Almost as if De Gea is the paragon of traditional goalkeeping values. Values that presumably include: Commanding your defence, claiming crosses and general sense of bravery. All things that De Gea lacks.
There is no fukking way that even if we had Ederson, let alone Onana, in goal this last season that our goal production would have increased by even 10 goals, let alone 36 goals.
You simply don't know that. Yes, you can look at our forwards as individuals and conclude that many of them weren't good enough. However, a goalkeeper who takes up higher positions and is excellent in possession will by balance of probability not only lead to his team having more possession of the ball, but in much higher, dangerous areas. Therefore it's pretty safe to assume we would have scored more goals, regardless of how highly (or not) you rate our forwards. I do agree that certain individuals (Harry Kane for instance) would be even more transformational in this sense, but I'm merely showing how signing a new goalkeeper can be a very progressive move for the team as a whole. Stronger than the sum of it's parts. Your view is generally a bit myopic and prehistoric.
 

Remember the geese

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You do when you don't have enough funds, and I've already addressed the salary point. He has an offer on the table that reflects his worth.
No, that's simply giving yourself another problem. We should be aspiring for much better than De Gea, even as a number 2. The likes of City and Liverpool have second choice keepers who are a much better fit for their system than De Gea would be for ours. I guarantee that the offer we have on the table for De Gea would massively exceed his actual worth and value.
 

VP89

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No, that's simply giving yourself another problem. We should be aspiring for much better than De Gea, even as a number 2. The likes of City and Liverpool have second choice keepers who are a much better fit for their system than De Gea would be for ours. I guarantee that the offer we have on the table for De Gea would massively exceed his actual worth and value.
We don't have the money, and there is no one better on a free. So no, it would be a perfectly reasonable fallback.
 

Shiva87

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Ok, let's play along.

"Much better" as in conceding fewer goals or "much better" as in scoring more goals...or both?

For a quick refresher, this is how we stacked up against City in terms of goals conceded and goals scored:

Goals Conceded
City 33, United 43

Goals Scored
City 94, United 58

A goalkeeper's primary but by no means exclusive responsibility is to prevent goals from being conceded, to keep "clean sheets". Our record of 43 goals is 10 goals worse than City's record and Dave has to take his share of the blame for some of those goals, such as the goal Benrahma scored when West Ham kept a clean sheet against us. But 43 goals conceded is the same number of goals conceded when we last lifted the PL trophy in 2013 and is only marginally worse than the 37 goals we scored in the PL title season of 10-11. For further context, Arsenal this last season, with the presumably modern keeper Ramsdale in goal, also conceded 43.

For a club to become a PL title winner, goals conceded needs to be closer to 30. But of course it's a team the defends well and I trust you will acknowledge that City have a vastly better side at every position than United.

Which leads to the next point -- goals scored. There is no fukking way that even if we had Ederson, let alone Onana, in goal this last season that our goal production would have increased by even 10 goals, let alone 36 goals. Apart from Rashford, who would likely not make the City starting XI, our front line was shambolic this season and as much as we might be tempted to explain it away on injuries, mental health issues, the difficulty of adjusting to the PL the sum of truth is that our front line was shocking and shambolic for most of the season. Even if we had Ederson or Onana spraying the ball smartly to our fullbacks if our front line can't do their job we're not scoring goals. Maybe we inch up a few goals on the back of a few inch perfect Route One balls to Antony or Rashford, but such a ball to Antony gets wasted as his movement was perfectly predictable and easy to defend. Maybe Rashford would have scored 2 or 3 more goals on top of his 17 PL goals but surely no one will argue here that Martial would have scored 10 more goals, Weghorst would have scored 5 or 6 goals or Elanga 3 or 4 goals. Whether it was lack of interest (Martial), lack of ability (Weghorst) or lack of whatever (Elanga), our goal scorers were vastly short of what was required and none of their deficiencies can be blamed on De Gea or even on our midfielders. Bruno is a bit inconsistent for my liking but is a fantastic attacking midfielder, Casemiro was a revelation after initial doubts seemed reasonable, and until Andy Carroll cut him down Eriksen was fantastic.

For a club to become a PL title winner, goals scored needs to be at least in the 80s and no keeper on the planet, or who has ever lived, would have turned Martial, Weghorst or Elanga into goal scoring machines. When you have a deficiency at CF you know what you need to do? Pick up a proper CF.

Bring in Obana and we will see smarter passes to our fullbacks, but if our RBs performed at the level they did most of this season opposing teams will invite the ball to our RBs, press the crap out of them and regain possession from them. But if we bring in Onana at the expense of bringing in a proven CF the 23/24 season will be another top four season, no PL title challenge anywhere to be found.
agree with the last sentence but not most of the remaining post.

Truth is that it also matters when those mistakes were made. De Gea has cost us in major competitions, first home game for Ten Hag, EL quarterfinal, FA Cup final., previous EL final etc.

We need a keeper who is reliable in clutch situations and time and time again DDG has come up short in those situations. An upgrade is necessary on that count (and not as much on the stats).
 

united for life

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There is a rumor that United are thinking of considering a bid to sign him. The club is debating whether they need a keeper next year or not
 

zaafi

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There is a rumor that United are thinking of considering a bid to sign him. The club is debating whether they need a keeper next year or not
I think we need to monitor our interest a bit more before we delve into the possibility of contemplating a bid for our surveillanced target.
 

edcunited1878

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If Onana and Inter want the money, totally fine with him walking.

If he doesn't want to play in the CL, PL, for United under his former manager, then feck him. Wrong mentality.
 

edcunited1878

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Tweet headline: "Exclusive: Al Nassr have lodged a lucrative offer for Andre Onana, Manchester United's first choice goalkeeping target this summer."

Article headline: "Andre Onana transfer: Al-Nassr lodges bid with Inter, rivaling Manchester United for in-demand goalkeeper"

Article body: Al-Nassr have made a lucrative offer to Andre Onana, the in demand Inter goalkeeper who has emerged as a leading target for Manchester United.... It remains to be seen whether Onana can be lured away from Manchester United but the pressure to accelerate talks with Inter has now grown for the club hierarchy, who are yet to submit a bid for Erik ten Hag's favored option in goal for next season. "

Al Nassr has spoken to the representatives of Onana and have spoken about a large personal outlay (personal terms). United have at least spoken to Inter and both clubs have acknowledge that an official bid is incoming, which will be assessed when that time comes. And Al Nassr hasn't made any contact with Inter.

And as we all know, United can and will spend more on wages than majority of serious clubs.
 

AndySmith1990

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Earlier today...

Manchester United are considering making an offer for André Onana and know that #Inter will not sell him for less than €50M. United have a ‘plan B’, which involves the renewal of De Gea and the arrival of a young goalkeeper to compete with him.

Later...

United bid €40m + €5m

Silly season
 

T00lsh3d

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45+5 seems pretty fair. Let’s just skip the foreplay and get it done
 

lex talionis

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agree with the last sentence but not most of the remaining post.

Truth is that it also matters when those mistakes were made. De Gea has cost us in major competitions, first home game for Ten Hag, EL quarterfinal, FA Cup final., previous EL final etc.

We need a keeper who is reliable in clutch situations and time and time again DDG has come up short in those situations. An upgrade is necessary on that count (and not as much on the stats).
But exactly which cups would we have won had we had Onana in goal instead of Dave? Certainly not the FA Cup, unless you really believe United were the better side on the day, which would be a pretty astonishing belief. Dave was undeniably poor against Sevilla away but we were never the better side in the tie and certain not the better side in Sevilla. As for the two own goals scored at Old Trafford, you can't blame De Gea for the OG scored by Malacia or the Maguire OG as the deflection off Maguire's dome was huge and unsavable (not Maguire's fault either, tbh). But the truth is that Sevilla dominated us in the final 30 minutes of the match at OT and even though it took two wicked OGs to secure the away, none of that was De Gea's fault. Dave has his share of the blame to carry in the return leg, but in truth we were a beaten side before we walked onto the pitch. And yes, Maguire should have easily managed the ball Dave gave him, but it is appropriate to hammer Dave for giving Maguire a ball of any kind except under the most pedestrian of circumstances.

Interesting how you ignored our actual accomplishments -- 3rd in the PL, which was well above expectations, the league cup winner (again, above expectations), and FA Cup finalist (above expectations yet again) -- and focused your attention solely on what we failed to accomplish. I'm not going to give Dave all the credit for our accomplishments (as that would be moronic), but any reasonable and balanced assessment of his culpability in our failures would also include his role in our successes -- which by all reasonable assessments were above expectations.

And of course not a single mention of beating Barcelona let alone his world class save of a Kounde shot. As for the EL itself, although the point of it all is to win trophies it was clear that the competition was becoming a grind and impeding our progress in the PL itself. For a moment, sometime in January, there was open speculation here that we might be in for a PL trophy run, but as the grind of the EL wore on we wore down and were dropping points. We had to get out of the EL to salvage any hope of a top four finish in the PL, which was the vastly higher priority as anything can happen in a cup final, such as a pk shootout.

As for the last EL final a few seasons WTF are you talking about? We lost on pk's with Dave's shot being saved. It's a bit harsh to blame it all on Dave. Just for fun let's take a look our starting XI that day: AWB, Lindelof, Bailly, Shaw, Pogba, McTominay, Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood and Cavani. Shaw was having a decent season, but concerns about AWB were already high, Lindelof is a decent CB but nowhere near the level we demand and the less said about Bailly the better. In other words, a shambolic back line once again Dave had to deal with.

We were never in for a treble this season. Last summer at this time most of us felt we were in no better than a fifth or sixth place finish in the PL and who knows what crumbs in cup competitions.
 

VanGaalEra

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I’d be happy if we get Onana in with Mount for the start of our pre season games. We can then work on the 9 following this. Think we need to work on the game plan and team shape with a modern keeper at the helm through pre season.
 
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