Andre Marriner

[bucky]

Just to confirm @Anustart89's post.

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[HookedOnAPhelan]

His decision to give that ridiculous foul against Sabitzer when Rashford was through on goal in the Palace game at Old Trafford is still the most absurd decision I've seen this season. So not at all surprised to see him give most decisions for Brighton tonight.

The pen was a pen though.

 

[ManUnitedCanuck]

Yeah, let's blame him for our players being unprofessional. We could have had two players sent off now, and Rashford got no yellow for the clearest dive you'll see. We can't complain.

Well, it’s the right person to blame.

If you are getting fouled over and over and the ref is doing nothing, then you start to take things into your own hands.

Mitoma dove twice clearly, he didn’t get a yellow.

 

[Prodigy24]

How he is still allowed to referee in the Premier League is a mystery. Seriously, when was the last time he had a decent game?

 

[ManUnitedCanuck]

I'm quite perplexed by some of the takes in here. The pen was a definite pen. He/VAR got the yellow to Antony right when other refs would have been swayed to show a red. He/VAR got the no-pen decision with AWB and Mitoma right. And he should definitely have sent off Cas for a second yellow but didn't.

Other than not booking Caicedo for his challenge on Rashford in the first half, I don't have any complaints. If anything, due to Cas being braindead, we got away lightly.

No complaint on the yellow card to Shaw, when it wasn’t even a foul and the ref looking directly at it from 3 yards?

 

[Lost bear]

Horribly inconsistent for both teams. It has been the story of officiating all season. I think this is the worst season for refereeing I can remember.

Yes, I do think it has plumbed new depths this season.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Honestly think that he had a good game overall. Yeah it was probably not a free kick but there was so much diving from both teams that it’s hard to blame him. I think not booking Gilmore was probably the one wrong one he made

 

[DutchSerb]

No complaint on the yellow card to Shaw, when it wasn’t even a foul and the ref looking directly at it from 3 yards?

He didn't get the yellow for the foul but for his whining afterwards.

 

[SuperiorXI]

He was hopeless today, for both teams. Shocking decisions all round.

 

[The Dane]

Shouldn’t Shaw have had a second yellow for the handball?

 

[ManUnitedCanuck]

He didn't get the yellow for the foul but for his whining afterwards.

Again if that’s a yellow for whining, I guess we should not have any men left on the pitch. Both teams would all be sent off.

 

[Anustart89]

Again if that’s a yellow for whining, I guess we should not have any men left on the pitch. Both teams would all be sent off.

When five Brighton players surrounded him to get Casemiro sent off for a foul where he gave advantage and they got a shot off from 20 yards out, he was happy to just scream at them and send them away.

 

[DutchSerb]

Again if that’s a yellow for whining, I guess we should not have any men left on the pitch. Both teams would all be sent off.

I can't deny that I was annoyed when Shaw did it. He whined and shouted for a solid minute, just tone it down and walk away, you're not going to change his mind on the foul. That one is on him IMO. There's whining like Bruno does and then there's whatever Shaw was doing. It was just stupid on his part.

 

[MikeKing]

Shouldn’t Shaw have had a second yellow for the handball?

Why was it a yellow card handball? Did he do it on purpose? You have the full angle?

 

[MikeKing]

No yellow card for stopping counter attacks for one team, yellow to the other. You can't just see each decision in a vacuum. Casemiro had one sliding tackle stopping a counter, Brighton had probably 5-6 counter stopping tackles that didn't get the ball so just dragged their man down, yet weren't even yellow cards. It's then pointless to discuss Casemiro not being sent of as some sort of conflicting decision for a United supporter, it isn't because it's all fecking based on bullshit. Applaud a shit ref for not being more shit, thank you for only giving the opposition their main tactic success despite them failing at it by not winning their man marking one vs one duels.

 

[Livewire1974]

Shouldn’t Shaw have had a second yellow for the handball?

No.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

Shouldn’t Shaw have had a second yellow for the handball?

No it was completely accidental.

 

[UTAretro]

Agree, the Shaw one wasn’t a second yellow in my view. Nailed on penalty, but not a yellow card offence.

 

[Abraxas]

You can guarantee that as night follows day we will lose a game and then a refereeing thread will get bumped to divert from the situation that we lost because we weren't good enough on the day. It's just an outlet I guess, the same way the managers do it.

Constant fouls on transition tonight, and players from both sides flopping to the floor any time a 5mph breeze swept across the Amex. You ain't gonna get perfect consistency at in game speed with that amount of gamesmanship and willingness to stop counters. Some stuff will be missed but in general it was okay and he got the very obvious big decision right so I really don't see the issue.

 

[Malone_Post]

Wall eyed bastard never gives us anything.

Could have easily sent off Casimero & Antony and no one could have had any complaints if he had.

We lost because of another abject team performance. Blaming the ref is just childish. Brighton won because they were the better team and deserved the three points. It’s not always the refs fault.

 

[Fitchett]

It was a poor refereeing performance, as per usual from Marriner. Letting fouls and dives go unpunished. But, again, it's our pathetic forwards to blame. If we were 3-0 up, as we should have been, then refs can't shaft us. At 0-0, they can and do. The penalty award was correct, the free kick in the 96th minute that led to it, was not. Five minutes added time?

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

Could have easily sent off Casimero & Antony and no one could have had any complaints if he had.

We lost because of another abject team performance. Blaming the ref is just childish. Brighton won because they were the better team and deserved the three points. It’s not always the refs fault.

Exactly. I'm not saying that this was a good refereeing performance, but I am saying that the most egregious mistake he made was failing to send Cas off with around a half hour to go for a blatant second yellow.

Pretending that he was Brighton's 12th man here is the kind of stuff that we laugh at RAWK for.

We lost because we didn't take our chances in the first half and a moment of madness from an otherwise impeccably performing centre back in extra time. Simple as.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Honestly, I would've sent off Antony if I was him.

 

[11101]

It's always a sign of a poor refereeing performance when players start arguing repeatedly. Decisions haven't been done fairly and the players lose respect for the referee, who loses control over the game. I don't think he's biased but he is a weak referee, always easily conned by players and a crowd, which leads to a game like yesterday.

Referees like him decide games. Both sides had missed red cards and penalties but ultimately he was conned for a free kick right under his nose which led to the penalty.

 

[GledTheRed]

Honestly think that he had a good game overall. Yeah it was probably not a free kick but there was so much diving from both teams that it’s hard to blame him. I think not booking Gilmore was probably the one wrong one he made

Agree with this, he wasn't that bad.

The Rashford & Antony fouls that lead to the scuffle i'd need to see again as Sky just ignored those incidents in the hope they'd see a red card for Antony.

 

[Maroon Lucifer]

Agree with this, he wasn't that bad.

The Rashford & Antony fouls that lead to the scuffle i'd need to see again as Sky just ignored those incidents in the hope they'd see a red card for Antony.

Yes, especially the Rashford one where he looked like he was pulled down. They never showed the replay of that.

I swear they all too often don't show replays to protect referees it seems.

 

[Oranges038]

It's always a sign of a poor refereeing performance when players start arguing repeatedly. Decisions haven't been done fairly and the players lose respect for the referee, who loses control over the game. I don't think he's biased but he is a weak referee, always easily conned by players and a crowd, which leads to a game like yesterday.

Referees like him decide games. Both sides had missed red cards and penalties but ultimately he was conned for a free kick right under his nose which led to the penalty.

This was it for me, he tried to let the game flow, but his strange decision making meant he lost all control early on and couldn't reign it back in.

 

[Sylar]

He's a shocking referee

I'm still baffled how he didn't see the handball himself as he had a clear view of it

 

[Solius]

He could've given Casemiro a second yellow, was surprised he didn't tbh.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

What's this about Casemiro's second yellow? Did I miss something? I remember a foul he made outside the box, but I didn't consider that a yellow, far less a blatant one.

 

[McGrathsipan]

No it was completely accidental.

if thats the case then by the rules of the game is should not have been a pen.

He knew exactly what he was at - in a moment of madness.

If we lose out of CL football by a point - there you go.

 

[Hughes35]

Bracing myself for all the abuse...... But I thought he was ok for us yesterday really.

Anthony could easily have seen red & so could Casemiro...... And it was a penalty.

Lets not be sore losers and blame the ref.

 

[McGrathsipan]

He could've given Casemiro a second yellow, was surprised he didn't tbh.

He should have booked Rashford for diving and Mitoma

 

[Sunny Jim]

Bracing myself for all the abuse...... But I thought he was ok for us yesterday really.

Anthony could easily have seen red & so could Casemiro...... And it was a penalty.

Lets not be sore losers and blame the ref.

i will second that. Apart from a mistake impacting final score he was not that bad. And Antony could have been sent off

 

[Sylar]

He should have booked Rashford for diving and Mitoma

Mitoma twice. Didn't do it first time which encourages the second.

 

[Abraxas]

It's always a sign of a poor refereeing performance when players start arguing repeatedly. Decisions haven't been done fairly and the players lose respect for the referee, who loses control over the game. I don't think he's biased but he is a weak referee, always easily conned by players and a crowd, which leads to a game like yesterday.

Referees like him decide games. Both sides had missed red cards and penalties but ultimately he was conned for a free kick right under his nose which led to the penalty.

The players don't start off with respect for referees. They can't lose something they never had. That's very clear, any weekend of football shows that, it's not specific to Andre Marriner, it's a culture within the game. Some games are worse than others, but at its core it is evident to me that players and managers massively contribute to how difficult refereeing has become.

Maybe rather than blaming the ref for being "conned", we need to have substantive initiatives that drive diving, playacting, card waving, surrounding refs out of the game. Address it at the root of the problem rather than blaming the official for the player's actions. It's like committing a crime and then blaming society for making you do it. They're supposed to be refereeing the laws of the game, not babysitting idiots that are just as interested in cheating as they are playing the game.

 

[MikeKing]

The players don't start off with respect for referees. They can't lose something they never had. That's very clear, any weekend of football shows that, it's not specific to Andre Marriner, it's a culture within the game. Some games are worse than others, but at its core it is evident to me that players and managers massively contribute to how difficult refereeing has become.

Maybe rather than blaming the ref for being "conned", we need to have substantive initiatives that drive diving, playacting, card waving, surrounding refs out of the game. Address it at the root of the problem rather than blaming the official for the player's actions. It's like committing a crime and then blaming society for making you do it. They're supposed to be refereeing the laws of the game, not babysitting idiots that are just as interested in cheating as they are playing the game.

I'll ride with your analogy. So if the 'thief' stops committing the crime, another will come in his place and the first thief will have the moral high-ground but if the law don't punish the second thief, he now owns the trophy. This means the first thief will soon give up his moral high-ground and go back to thieving because the trophy is what he wants.

 

[11101]

The players don't start off with respect for referees. They can't lose something they never had. That's very clear, any weekend of football shows that, it's not specific to Andre Marriner, it's a culture within the game. Some games are worse than others, but at its core it is evident to me that players and managers massively contribute to how difficult refereeing has become.

Maybe rather than blaming the ref for being "conned", we need to have substantive initiatives that drive diving, playacting, card waving, surrounding refs out of the game. Address it at the root of the problem rather than blaming the official for the player's actions. It's like committing a crime and then blaming society for making you do it. They're supposed to be refereeing the laws of the game, not babysitting idiots that are just as interested in cheating as they are playing the game.

Great idea. Who is going to start us off? It sure as shit shouldn't be us. Ole tried to go that route and it backfired immediately. Players will cheat but they will listen to the refs decisions. When they're as bad as Marriner was yesterday, they stop and things boil over.

 

[Anustart89]

The players don't start off with respect for referees. They can't lose something they never had. That's very clear, any weekend of football shows that, it's not specific to Andre Marriner, it's a culture within the game. Some games are worse than others, but at its core it is evident to me that players and managers massively contribute to how difficult refereeing has become.

Maybe rather than blaming the ref for being "conned", we need to have substantive initiatives that drive diving, playacting, card waving, surrounding refs out of the game. Address it at the root of the problem rather than blaming the official for the player's actions. It's like committing a crime and then blaming society for making you do it. They're supposed to be refereeing the laws of the game, not babysitting idiots that are just as interested in cheating as they are playing the game.

I obviously think that refs should get the respect, but wearing a black shirt shouldn't be the only prerequisite. If he were a bit more honest last night he would've avoided a bunch of the incidents that became controversial later on. Marriner and his officiating created much of the tension and directly influenced the game in Brighton's favour. Had he not allowed Mitoma to dive twice without yellow, then maybe Rashford wouldn't have thought that there was a worthwhile risk/reward ratio to attempting a dive as well. But instead, everybody's talking about Rashford's pathetic dive. And why wouldn't he take his chances when he's seen that this ref doesn't give a yellow for it when the same player on the other team's done it twice? So by booking Mitoma for either of his dives he could've avoided Rashford or anyone else attempting to con him.

Look at the foul by Estupinan on Antony that the referee ignored, and then compare that with the foul on Enciso, that he was stood two yards away from and thought was a foul. He's set the bar at one level for United and one for Brighton. Then Antony becomes frustrated with this treatment from the referees and lashes out, and now all the discussion is how Antony should/could have been sent off. But if he had just called an obvious foul that was more obvious than fouls he called for the other team, Antony wouldn't have felt unfairly treated and wouldn't have lashed out and sparked a huge melee. And instead of Estupinan being on a yellow we have Antony on a yellow, and instead of having Antony being able to challenge a booked defender for the last 20 minutes of the game, we have to sub him off for Sancho while Estupinan is free to keep fouling. And then all the discussion is how lenient Marriner was to not send Antony off when he could've avoided the entire situation by just giving the foul in the first place, which was a foul by the standard he applied for the other team (and then some, based on the Enciso foul that led to the period of pressure that ultimately won them the game).

So with a level of officiating that is that poor, how do you expect players to respect referees? Respect is earned and should be deserved, not automatically given because someone wears a black shirt.

 

[Abraxas]

I'll ride with your analogy. So if the 'thief' stops committing the crime, another will come in his place and the first thief will have the moral high-ground but if the law don't punish the second thief, he now owns the trophy. This means the first thief will soon give up his moral high-ground and go back to thieving because the trophy is what he wants.

I'm not talking about Man Utd or a specific club going out on their own and playing like saints. That would be pure stupidity for the reason you allude to. My only point is its ridiculous to blame refs for the players acting like fecking idiots. If you are surrounded by people attempting to con you, at some point you're going to get conned.

But something has to come from the very top of the game. The referees and refereeing associations are under too much pressure to deliver what is needed to stamp cheating out by themselves, even though ultimately they have to be the ones to action it. It would be easy to say "give them all red cards" but that ain't going to happen because of the backlash they'd get for doing that unless it is preapproved within the game. They already get flack for mundane decisions such as yellow cards. The governing bodies of the game have to be the ones to say "this is not how we want to play football" and there needs to be a cohesive approach across the game towards it and then the exact mechanisms can flow from there. There's no good just one league having an approach either, because then when it comes to Europe there will be completely different standards.