Andrea Pirlo - Juventus manager

[Red Comet]

Did Ole "prove" himself before getting the permanent position at United? The Zidane and Pep examples further undermine your point.

It depends on what you consider as proof. He did return to Norway and turn a backwater local team into Norwegian League Champions for the first time ever in their history and made them consistent title challengers year after year. Molde FC was also punching above their weight in European competitions.

Yes he did get Cardiff relegated, but he took over a burning dumpster fire that even Sir Alex advised him to stay away from (while Ole didn't heed unfortunately).

 

[giorno]

Something i've seen on twitter

Juventus last 4 seasons, by numbers:

Spoiler

EDIT crunched the numbers after 35 games

20/21 GF 67 GA 34 GD +33 xG 66.5 xGA 33.1 xGD +33.3 Points 69 xP(after W35) 73.25

19/20 GF 73 GA 38 GD +35 xG 63.4 xGA 37,7 xGD +25,7 Points 80 xP(after W35) 66.38

18/19 GF 69 GA 25 GD +44 xG 56,2 xGA 32 xGD +24,2 Points 89 xP(after W35) 67.99

17/18 GF 81 GA 22 GD +59 xG 54,3 xGA 26,3 xGD +28 Points 88 xP(after 35) 67.69

Fbref for xG and understat for XP(i know...)

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Did Ole "prove" himself before getting the permanent position at United? The Zidane and Pep examples further undermine your point.

They proved themselves on the job.
Zidane was hired as a caretaker and would have been fired real quick if the results hadn't been excellent in his half-season in charge.

 

[adexkola]

They proved themselves on the job.
Zidane was hired as a caretaker and would have been fired real quick if the results hadn't been excellent in his half-season in charge.

Exactly. All this stuff about having to "work your way up the ladder" is nonsense.

 

[Luke1995]

If Ronaldo to Juve raised their and the Italian league’s profile, then by the same logic, Ronaldo in Europa should increase Europa league’s profile and therefore good for football in general?

My issue is that the level of competition is lower. But obviously it will generate more views for the league.

 

[thepolice123]

Something i've seen on twitter

Juventus last 4 seasons, by numbers:

Spoiler

EDIT crunched the numbers after 35 games

20/21 GF 67 GA 34 GD +33 xG 66.5 xGA 33.1 xGD +33.3 Points 69 xP(after W35) 73.25

19/20 GF 73 GA 38 GD +35 xG 63.4 xGA 37,7 xGD +25,7 Points 80 xP(after W35) 66.38

18/19 GF 69 GA 25 GD +44 xG 56,2 xGA 32 xGD +24,2 Points 89 xP(after W35) 67.99

17/18 GF 81 GA 22 GD +59 xG 54,3 xGA 26,3 xGD +28 Points 88 xP(after 35) 67.69

Fbref for xG and understat for XP(i know...)

New contract extension incoming.

 

[giorno]

New contract extension incoming.

It's funny. By the numbers this is the best they've performed in 4 years. Even by eye test they haven't really been any worse than at least last season. And yet

I think juventus underestimated the mentality of a group of players who won titles on the strength of a defence that gave them an aura of invincibility in Italy. To move away from that with managers like Sarri and a Pirlo, who want to dominate games with the ball and the attack, without making significant changes to the team...that dressing room was always bound to reject them at the first signs of difficulties

I think Pirlo could be a good manager, but not with this juventus squad. If they get rid of Buffon, Chiellini, Bonucci, maybe Cuadrado and Alex Sandro (i'm not sure, but they've been there awhile), Pirlo might have a chance there. If they care to give him one still. Otherwise, better find a pragmatist

 

[Suedesi]

I heard also that they are interested only in last 15 minutes of the game

As a United fan, I'm only interested in the last 45 minutes of the game

 

[Suedesi]

Anyone with post graduate experience and a dissertation or thesis to their name will tell you that there is a clear divide between academic theory and practical application. Ideas can be excellent in theory but the individuals ability to communicate those ideas and relate them practically to a real world environment brings in other factors such as leadership and communication capabilities. Essentially in football, complex ideas have to be translated into simple terms. It is also a well established fact that effective leadership requires effective followership and to generate that leaders have to cultivate local level sponsors and an alignment of shared, mutual goals. Then we get into the concepts of EQ and change management. This is where Ole has succeeded, and where more storied peers such as Guardiola and Ferguson, have succeeded so comprehensively.

From the outside looking in, Pirlo seems like he has an excellent football brain but likely lacks the leadership skills required to implement those ideas in a management setting. Leadership, as a discipline, is much more nuanced and complex than many people understand.

Excellent post

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

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[izec]

Boom. Thats how you do it

None of this 5 year nonsense

 

[Idxomer]

Ruthless, congrats Juve on another Seria A title.

 

[Godfather]

Wow. Ruthless.

 

[Arios]

Sigh I wished for Zidane instead of another italian manager.
But Allegri was the best we could get after Zidane.
They wanted to play safe rather than another riskier choice after Sarri and Pirlo.

 

[Idxomer]

Sigh I wished for Zidane instead of another italian manager.
But Allegri was the best we could get after Zidane.
They wanted to play safe rather than another riskier choice after Sarri and Pirlo.

I think Zidane might take some time off before he manages another team.

 

[FootyGirl88]

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Big club doing big things, you love to see it

 

[horsechoker]

I think Zidane might take some time off before he goes back to Madrid.

Fixed that for you

 

[rojo81]

I guess this means Cristiano is gone. Rumours are that Allegri didn't want him there.

 

[Gibb11]

Well whole thing with allegri leaving before was juve wanting to change their ways and not just winning the only thing that mattered which was thier kind of a club ethos they wanted to play attractive football, sarri didn't work out and pirlo didn't either so I guess we go back to machine like juve?

 

[Luke1995]

This feels alot like Lampard at Chelsea.

Why clubs start new projects if they are not willing to wait multiple years for results ?

Ferguson was given four or five years at Manchester United before he finally got things right.

I feel like in today's social media and general internet age, clubs feel more pressure than they did 30 or 40 years ago.

 

[el3mel]

This feels alot like Lampard at Chelsea.

Why clubs start new projects if they are not willing to wait multiple years for results ?

Ferguson was given four or five years at Manchester United before he finally got things right.

I feel like in today's social media and general internet age, clubs feel more pressure than they did 30 or 40 years ago.

Because it's worthless continuing a project that is clear that it's shit and going nowhere.

 

[bosnian_red]

This feels alot like Lampard at Chelsea.

Why clubs start new projects if they are not willing to wait multiple years for results ?

Ferguson was given four or five years at Manchester United before he finally got things right.

I feel like in today's social media and general internet age, clubs feel more pressure than they did 30 or 40 years ago.

Fergie was a proven top manager at Aberdeen and took over a side in the bottom half of the league that hadn't won the title in ages. Pirlo took over a side that dominated the Italian League for a decade. Lampard took over a top 3 team and was midtable after spending loads. If there is no progress, the manager doesn't stay. It's It's simple. If a manager isn't proven before hand, you better hope they show progress because it is just dumb to stick with them on blind hope.

 

[Luke1995]

Because it's worthless continuing a project that is clear that it's shit and going nowhere.

That's the thing. When do you know for sure that a project will never work ?

Sure, as a general life rule, you should always get rid of what doesn't work and try something better. But sometimes things don't always happen in the timeframe that people want them to.

 

[horsechoker]

Because it's worthless continuing a project that is clear that it's shit and going nowhere.

True but they should be more diligent in who they hire or have a better plan.

City spent years laying the groundwork for Guardiola, it also helps that he's one of the best. Other teams need to better support managers if they have a long term vision for them.

 

[Luke1995]

Fergie was a proven top manager at Aberdeen and took over a side in the bottom half of the league that hadn't won the title in ages. Pirlo took over a side that dominated the Italian League for a decade. Lampard took over a top 3 team and was midtable after spending loads. If there is no progress, the manager doesn't stay. It's It's simple. If a manager isn't proven before hand, you better hope they show progress because it is just dumb to stick with them on blind hope.

Can't disagree with that. Although in Pirlo's case, he was an entirely rookie manager, so Juve must should have known that the first season would be a pure experiment.

 

[BorisManUtd]

United would never sacked manager who just finished in top 4 and won FA cup. I guess Fergie being at club for 26.5 years has made us like that, looking for stability and scared of sacking managers until their position is untenable.

 

[mu4c_20le]

United would never sacked manager who just finished in top 4 and won FA cup. I guess Fergie being at club for 26.5 years has made us like that, looking for stability and scared of sacking managers until their position is untenable.

Liverpool are a bit like that as well, difference is they got very lucky with Klopp.

 

[el3mel]

That's the thing. When do you know for sure that a project will never work ?

Sure, as a general life rule, you should always get rid of what doesn't work and try something better. But sometimes things don't always happen in the timeframe that people want them to.

It's not rocket science. It's clear when a manager is doing a good job but missing few things for the team to improve and when a manager is just doing a shit job in general.

 

[el_loco_bielsa]

Broadly speaking your CV should buy you time, or not as the case may be. If you’re a klopp and have an unremarkable first or second season, you deserve time because you’ve demonstrated your ability to knit together a plan given time.

If on the other hand you’ve demonstrated zero to date, why do you deserve the time? Pirlo needed to be replaced because this season has shown an abject lack of a plan, and frankly he needed to build a CV prior to jumping into the main man role at the biggest Italian club of them all. Go learn your trade, and then you can manage Juve once you’ve earned your stripes.

Just because a couple of coaches in the last ten years have demonstrated the ability to walk into a major role as beginners at Barca and Madrid and become immediate successes doesn’t mean it’s the norm or should be.

 

[Red Star One]

United would never sacked manager who just finished in top 4 and won FA cup. I guess Fergie being at club for 26.5 years has made us like that, looking for stability and scared of sacking managers until their position is untenable.

I hope we would, if we were dominating the league to an extent of Juve, winning titles for 9 years running only to appoint a guy completely out of his depth who makes is no longer sure bet for title but got us fighting for CL spot. I really hope we would.

 

[el3mel]

True but they should be more diligent in who they hire or have a better plan.

City spent years laying the groundwork for Guardiola, it also helps that he's one of the best. Other teams need to better support managers if they have a long term vision for them.

City put groundwork for Guardiola regarding the board and transfer business, but they didn't spend this years with novice managers and they didn't stick with one manager throughout the whole of it. Mancini won them the league and Pellegrini won league and 2 league cups. Both are 2nd tier manager, not as good as Pep, but not just a complete inexperienced novice like Pirlo.

If you hire a manager for a long term project and this project looks shit in its first year and is going nowhere, there's no reason to waste time. Better to just shift to a better project.

 

[Oranges038]

I hope we would, if we were dominating the league to an extent of Juve, winning titles for 9 years running only to appoint a guy completely out of his depth who makes is no longer sure bet for title but got us fighting for CL spot. I really hope we would.

Aside from the total dominance. This is exactly what happened Moyes.

 

[Red Star One]

Aside from the total dominance. This is exactly what happened Moyes.

I thought about it, even if we were dominating in a much more balanced league, it was never the edge Juve has over other Italian teams. And Moyes unlike Pirlo had some successes in said league!

 

[Oranges038]

I thought about it, even if we were dominating in a much more balanced league, it was never the edge Juve has over other Italian teams. And Moyes unlike Pirlo had some successes in said league!

He did have, but Moyes was still out of his depth

Juve had it all their own way for so long but they've been on the slide for a few years. Most previous years, Pirlo probably wins the league at least.

.

 

[Red Star One]

Most previous years, Pirlo probably wins the league at least.

.

Mate, most previous years me and you probably win the league with Juve, too.

 

[Bebestation]

It’s the wrong thread but would Conte potentially manage Real Madrid?

 

[Luke1995]

It’s the wrong thread but would Conte potentially manage Real Madrid?

Don't think so. He's apparently had issues at Chelsea and Inter with people above him. Can you see him getting on well with Florentino Perez ?

 

[Samid]

Sacked.

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[BorisManUtd]

I hope we would, if we were dominating the league to an extent of Juve, winning titles for 9 years running only to appoint a guy completely out of his depth who makes is no longer sure bet for title but got us fighting for CL spot. I really hope we would.

We had 20 years of success under Sir Alex when Moyes came, if he got top 4 and won the cup don't think we'd ever sacked him but the reality was we were 7th in PL and out of all cup competitions while playing dire football, especially at Old Trafford.

 

[horsechoker]

Sacked.

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The right decision but top clubs are expediting players into management too quickly because they think they'll be the next Zidane or Guardiola. Chelsea did the same with Lampard and Arsenal are doing the same thing with Arteta. Ole at least had several years of experience prior to coming to United.

I don't know how Xavi will turn out but it seems he's doing things in the right way by gaining experience in the Middle-East.