Andreas Pereira Long Term Plan

[Classical Mechanic]

Was very average at Valencia. If he isn't good enough to start for Valencia, how should he go into the starting eleven at Man Utd? His level is more at some mid table Spanish / French / Bundesliga side.

Warren Joyce said a few years ago that he'll be a slow developer and won't be ready until he is 25. I don't think we should write him off yet.

 

[DWelbz19]

Great news. I’d love for him to stay and battle out for a spot.

 

[Lash]

I don't have an issue in doing a Jesse with him, I can't imagine Jose being very forgiving for hopping off after advising him to stay. I hope Jose isn't that bothered and keeps him in the squad this year. He may actually see there were definitely was a space for him last year - albeit we've now signed Fredge.

 

[RedTillI'mDead]

Isn't there a thread for this....

Long term plan...if good enough, play for United. If not, sacked off for chub change. Same as any other player.

 

[CM]

I'd love to see him given his chance but it doesn't seem likely when we already have 6 players (plus Lingard who is much better centrally) competing for 3 midfield spots.

 

[MadMike]

Was very average at Valencia. If he isn't good enough to start for Valencia, how should he go into the starting eleven at Man Utd? His level is more at some mid table Spanish / French / Bundesliga side.

But who said he would go into the starting XI here?

I think the discussion in general is a bit academical, since Fellaini renewed. Even if Mou decided to play with 3 CMs this season, he'd still find himself behind: Matic, Pogba, Fred, Herrera and Fellaini. Scrapping with McTominay for the 6th spot. He wasn't ready to accept being that far from the starting XI last year and I find it extremely doubtful he'll accept it this time round as well.

Also further up the pitch is even more doubtful since he never carried too much goal threat. LW is very overloaded atm and RW/#10 is where we're looking to buy.

Best option for both parties would be to sell with either a buy-back or a first option clause.

 

[Ekeke]

@Ekeke used to follow Valencia closely IIRC. Not sure if he still does.

Not as much as in the past, just an occasional watcher these days.

I do know plenty about Andreas last season though as I tried to keep up to date on that side of things.

He had a couple of good games on the wing but overall was quite average and a bit behind the player he was competing with for that spot, Carlos Soler. But Soler wasnt great either. Neither of them would instantly seem like an improvement on Mata based on last season's performances but of course they're both young players who could surprise people if given a chance.

He didnt get a kick in CM for Valencia and given all the hyperbole about McTominay from Mourinho, I'd be a bit surprised if he was given much of a chance there for us.

 

[Ekeke]

But who said he would go into the starting XI here?

I think the discussion in general is a bit academical, since Fellaini renewed. Even if Mou decided to play with 3 CMs this season, he'd still find himself behind: Matic, Pogba, Fred, Herrera and Fellaini. Scrapping with McTominay for the 6th spot. He wasn't ready to accept being that far from the starting XI last year and I find it extremely doubtful he'll accept it this time round as well.

Also further up the pitch is even more doubtful since he never carried too much goal threat. LW is very overloaded atm and RW/#10 is where we're looking to buy.

Best option for both parties would be to sell with either a buy-back or a first option clause.

Honestly if we dont sign anyone I do think he would have a chance of displacing Mata on the right if he takes any opportunities he gets. Its not like we're talking about a particularly high standard here. It just wouldnt be a guarantee because Andreas wasn't that great overall on the right last season either. He is at least good enough to be considered someone to compete with Mata though especially given his age vs. Mata's.

 

[Bastian]

Not as much as in the past, just an occasional watcher these days.

I do know plenty about Andreas last season though as I tried to keep up to date on that side of things.

He had a couple of good games on the wing but overall was quite average and a bit behind the player he was competing with for that spot, Carlos Soler. But Soler wasnt great either. Neither of them would instantly seem like an improvement on Mata based on last season's performances but of course they're both young players who could surprise people if given a chance.

He didnt get a kick in CM for Valencia and given all the hyperbole about McTominay from Mourinho, I'd be a bit surprised if he was given much of a chance there for us.

Good to know. From the looks of that Youtube video he seemed to be occupying the left side of midfield quite a bit. I thought Soler was also a midfielder? In terms of width, he'd at least give us an alternative to Mata on the right.

I'd love to see him given his chance but it doesn't seem likely when we already have 6 players (plus Lingard who is much better centrally) competing for 3 midfield spots.

It's a tough ask to get games in midfield next season, he'd at best be 5th choice behind Fred, Pogba, Matic and Ander. But I'd assume he's better there than Jesse. His passing range is better, he's better technically whereas Jesse's abilities are mainly to do with making clever runs and disrupting the opposition's defense (he'd be a bit negated in midfield).

 

[Ekeke]

Good to know. From the looks of that Youtube video he seemed to be occupying the left side of midfield quite a bit. I thought Soler was also a midfielder? In terms of width, he'd at least give us an alternative to Mata on the right.



It's a tough ask to get games in midfield next season, he'd at best be 5th choice behind Fred, Pogba, Matic and Ander. But I'd assume he's better there than Jesse. His passing range is better, he's better technically whereas Jesse's abilities are mainly to do with making clever runs and disrupting the opposition's defense (he'd be a bit negated in midfield).

Yeah he played both sides with 7 starts right and 5 left. But of course we're overstocked on the left while the right seems ready for someone to hit a bit of form and make the place their own.

Soler started 22 matches on the right and 4 in CM with 1 on the left. Statistically (and backed up by being first choice most of the season) Soler was a bit better at everything other than average amount of crosses per game. But yeah he wasnt a world beater last season either, both just showed their potential at times but neither exactly looked ready to be starting on the right for a top club. But you just never know if a young player is going to grab an oppertunity. Maybe Andreas comes in starts well and never looks back.

Soler's version of highlights

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Surprised he's getting another chance. I'm all for it, just surprised.

 

[Don Alfredo]

If only Spurs applied the same logic when Kane was on loan at Norwich.

Spurs had a vacancy at CF. You see Pereira overtaking 90m Pogba or 50m Fred? Or Herrera for that matter, who performed at a much higher level in La Liga and already proved himself in the PL? I think even McTominay is ahead of him at this point, after getting starts in the CL and big games in the league. And Fellaini of course, option number 1 from the bench.

Matic is the only "older" player in midfield and his position is very different to what Pereira is doing.

 

[Bastian]

Yeah he played both sides with 7 starts right and 5 left. But of course we're overstocked on the left while the right seems ready for someone to hit a bit of form and make the place their own.

Soler started 22 matches on the right and 4 in CM with 1 on the left. Statistically (and backed up by being first choice most of the season) Soler was a bit better at everything other than average amount of crosses per game. But yeah he wasnt a world beater last season either, both just showed their potential at times but neither exactly looked ready to be starting on the right for a top club. But you just never know if a young player is going to grab an oppertunity. Maybe Andreas comes in starts well and never looks back.

Soler's version of highlights

He looks good too. Of course, Valencia have much more to gain by playing Soler and progressing his development than Pereira. Generally thought, from those video clips alone, that Soler is maybe more direct and has possibly a better delivery, whereas Andreas is more technically gifted and can quite easily play his way out of trouble.

If we end up not buying an attacker for the right wing then we have the option of first-touch maestro Mata, drifting in field waiting for an overlap that may actually not end in failure now when Dalot is playing or a more pacey and two footed Pereira who will keep defenders guessing.

I also wouldn't be super surprised that Mata would be sold if we did sign some top player for the right side of attack.

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

Was very average at Valencia. If he isn't good enough to start for Valencia, how should he go into the starting eleven at Man Utd? His level is more at some mid table Spanish / French / Bundesliga side.

he played for a team which finished way above the team which eliminated us from the champions league.. also on loan player will always find it hard compared to ones owned by club. DOn't write him off, he's at least on the same level as Lingard, slightly less disciplined and more flair..

 

[Ekeke]

He looks good too. Of course, Valencia have much more to gain by playing Soler and progressing his development than Pereira. Generally thought, from those video clips alone, that Soler is maybe more direct and has possibly a better delivery, whereas Andreas is more technically gifted and can quite easily play his way out of trouble.

If we end up not buying an attacker for the right wing then we have the option of first-touch maestro Mata, drifting in field waiting for an overlap that may actually not end in failure now when Dalot is playing or a more pacey and two footed Pereira who will keep defenders guessing.

I also wouldn't be super surprised that Mata would be sold if we did sign some top player for the right side of attack.

Yeah of course Valencia will be more than happy to pick their own player over someone on loan, although they were hoping to sign Andreas at one point so they obviously needed to try and satisfy him as well else they'd have no chance. I think they wanted to sign him but whatever United were asking for wasnt going to happen.

What players can technically do and what they actually do every week is not always the same thing. Theres also workrate and consistancy. So yeah technically I'm sure Andreas can do anything that Soler did although maybe Soler is better at picking short passes to teammates making good runs and he's also shown before that he can make good runs into the box to score a goal, whereas Andreas is more the kind of player to stay outside the box and shoot from 25 yards and might find the top corner.

 

[ivaldo]

Spurs had a vacancy at CF. You see Pereira overtaking 90m Pogba or 50m Fred? Or Herrera for that matter, who performed at a much higher level in La Liga and already proved himself in the PL? I think even McTominay is ahead of him at this point, after getting starts in the CL and big games in the league. And Fellaini of course, option number 1 from the bench.

Matic is the only "older" player in midfield and his position is very different to what Pereira is doing.

Goalposts are on the move. I thought the point was because he wasn't a regular/star at Valencia it means he isn't good enough? Now it's because he don't have the space in the squad?

 

[Bestietom]

If he has not made it yet, then I have not much hope for him.

 

[Bastian]

@Ekeke
Yes of course (with regards to technical ability and actual performances). Would you say Andreas has lacked maturity in his Valencia outings? I.e. workrate, consistency, decision-making?

 

[Striker10]

If he has not made it yet, then I have not much hope for him.

I would have thought the same about Lingard when he got injured in LVGS first season I think? And he was what? 23 at the time playing full back or was it wing back? I think Jose will want to look at him and we go from there.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Not as much as in the past, just an occasional watcher these days.

I do know plenty about Andreas last season though as I tried to keep up to date on that side of things.

He had a couple of good games on the wing but overall was quite average and a bit behind the player he was competing with for that spot, Carlos Soler. But Soler wasnt great either. Neither of them would instantly seem like an improvement on Mata based on last season's performances but of course they're both young players who could surprise people if given a chance.

He didnt get a kick in CM for Valencia and given all the hyperbole about McTominay from Mourinho, I'd be a bit surprised if he was given much of a chance there for us.

Cheers for the post mate. I only caught the occasional Valencia match myself last season and thought Pereira was quite impressive from the little I saw. I was disappointed that he didn't get any time in central midfield though as CM/AM seems his natural role to me. I agree that Jose is highly unlikely to take the leap of faith and give him significant game time there.

 

[izec]

I would have thought the same about Lingard when he got injured in LVGS first season I think? And he was what? 23 at the time playing full back or was it wing back? I think Jose will want to look at him and we go from there.

Wing back.

 

[MadMike]

Honestly if we dont sign anyone I do think he would have a chance of displacing Mata on the right if he takes any opportunities he gets. Its not like we're talking about a particularly high standard here. It just wouldnt be a guarantee because Andreas wasn't that great overall on the right last season either. He is at least good enough to be considered someone to compete with Mata though especially given his age vs. Mata's.

The issue with displacing/replacing Mata is that he (Mata) is also not a right winger. The right side is a problem area for us and replacing one with the other won't be an improvement as neither is good enough to lead the right side. Also, in the friendlies he played under Mou he played mostly as a playmaker rather than winger. So I'm not even sure Mou sees him as a potential RW option.

I think he needs to go the Januzaj way if he's going to find some regular football. Pick a mid/bottom table side that really wants him and prove (with some consistency) that he deserves to be playing for someone bigger.

An example of this situation is our rumoured target, Xherdan Shaqiri. He obviously had talent, that's why he played 26 league games for Bayern at 20yo. He didn't end up making it at the time (hard with Robben and Ribery ahead of him) but at 23 he left and to be fair to him he's been showing now at 25-26 that he's a cut above his teammates at Stoke. Whether he's ready for another go at a top club is debatable, but he's proven that he can be an MVP for a mid/bottom club in the EPL and he won't be short of suitors at that level, that's for sure.

Pereira's not shined bright enough to claim a spot at United (no shame, it's happened to many players) and he's approaching 23, the same age Shaqiri left Bayern. Maybe doing what Shaqiri's done could propel his career.

 

[Ekeke]

@Ekeke
Yes of course (with regards to technical ability and actual performances). Would you say Andreas has lacked maturity in his Valencia outings? I.e. workrate, consistency, decision-making?

Yes although thats normal with young players. I'd say Soler is a bit better at working for the team like that. But Andreas might be the better individual player in terms of the upper limits of his skills.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Thread for this already..

 

[Stacks]

3 points behind Real Madrid is a small team?

Yeah. Real had an awful league season in case you didn't notice

 

[Stacks]

If only Spurs applied the same logic when Kane was on loan at Norwich.

This logic jars me. Its like the assumption that if someone is young, they automatically have potential. The fact is 1 out of 100 will actually do what Kane did so the odds are in our favour that Andres is an average talent.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Yeah. Real had an awful league season in case you didn't notice

So there are 17 small clubs in la liga?

 

[ivaldo]

This logic jars me. Its like the assumption that if someone is young, they automatically have potential. The fact is 1 out of 100 will actually do what Kane did so the odds are in our favour that Andres is an average talent.

What this tells us is that if a player doesn't perform well for club A, it doesn't mean he won't make it at club B, particularly when it's an entirely different environment and possibly even a different position. Discounting him just because he wasn't a smash hit at Valencia is ridiculous.

 

[MadMike]

What this tells us is that if a player doesn't perform well for club A, it doesn't mean he won't make it at club B, particularly when it's an entirely different environment and possibly even a different position. Discounting him just because he wasn't a smash hit at Valencia is ridiculous.

Sure, and I'll agree. But the problem remains that:
a) he doesn't seem to be too keen on being an occasional option like McTominay. And..
b) the position he's played for Mourinho (CM) is one we're mostly well stocked in since signing Fred and renewing Fellaini.

These two create quite an obstacle to him making it here. The club/manager seems mostly to be planning without taking him into great consideration. That we have to concede. I wanted him to take Fellaini's place in the squad, but that's just not happening.

 

[ivaldo]

Sure, and I'll agree. But the problem remains that:
a) he doesn't seem to be too keen on being an occasional option like McTominay. And..
b) the position he's played for Mourinho (CM) is one we're mostly well stocked in since signing Fred and renewing Fellaini.

These two create quite an obstacle to him making it here. The club/manager seems mostly to be planning without taking him into great consideration. That we have to concede. I wanted him to take Fellaini's place in the squad, but that's just not happening.

He can't expect to step into the side as a key player, and judging by recent commrnts, it looks as though he's under no illusions he's going to have to fight for his place.

What Andreas does have on his side is his versatility. He can plan deep, central, attacking or wide, so if you are to put someone on the bench, he's a good option. Personally I still think we need another creative midfielder to take some of the burden currently on Pogba; hopefully he can do that.

 

[CM]

It's a tough ask to get games in midfield next season, he'd at best be 5th choice behind Fred, Pogba, Matic and Ander. But I'd assume he's better there than Jesse. His passing range is better, he's better technically whereas Jesse's abilities are mainly to do with making clever runs and disrupting the opposition's defense (he'd be a bit negated in midfield).

I meant Lingard as an attacking midfielder in a 4-2-3-1. I expect 4-3-3 will be the preferred formation next season but I'd be surprised if Mourinho dropped his historically favourite formation entirely.

 

[Bastian]

I meant Lingard as an attacking midfielder in a 4-2-3-1. I expect 4-3-3 will be the preferred formation next season but I'd be surprised if Mourinho dropped his historically favourite formation entirely.

Yeah might happen. Not with Pogba, unless it's against really weak midfields though.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

He really should be an essential squad player next season.

 

[MichaelRed]

People ruling him out should remember that dark feeling of despair when a 22 year old Lingard was named in the match day squad.

 

[MadMike]

He really should be an essential squad player next season.

In what position would he be essential though? If we go and buy a RW (I know, if...) he'll be 3rd choice at best for every possible position that he can play in. Doesn't really scream "essential" to me.

 

[manunited1919]

When I compare his development to Martial, Rashford, and McTom, I would say he is behind all of them, and he is perhaps older than them. If a suitor comes along, he will be sold.

 

[Craig Ward]

Sadly, with Jose intent on getting Fellaini to stay I think the chances of Periera being used around the squad are extremely thin.

Can only see another loan or being sold, which is unfortunate for the player that it doesn't look like he'll get a chance he does deserve here. We'll sack Fellaini off next season or next and then be in the hunt for a young talented midfielder to replace him. We'll essentially be after someone like Periera in a season or so.

So dross from Jose fighting so hard to keep a useful 30 something instead of using and developing what we have.

Futures of TFM/Tuanzebe/Shaw/Rashford/Periera really do look bleak under Jose

 

[Don Alfredo]

Goalposts are on the move. I thought the point was because he wasn't a regular/star at Valencia it means he isn't good enough? Now it's because he don't have the space in the squad?

Why are you leaving out the connection I made with the vacancy when you brought up Kane?

There are about 4 midfielders at Utd who are better than any midfielder at Valencia. If he couldn‘t get in over the ones at Valencia, why would he get in over the better ones at Utd?

 

[ivaldo]

Why are you leaving out the connection I made with the vacancy when you brought up Kane?

There are about 4 midfielders at Utd who are better than any midfielder at Valencia. If he couldn‘t get in over the ones at Valencia, why would he get in over the better ones at Utd?

I didn’t, in fact I already addressed it. That’s the point. Kane got into the side because he was good enough. He isn’t playing at Spurs just because they had a vacancy. If you followed him at Norwich he’d know he was absolutely shit.

 

[Grylte]

I like the lad, and he also seems determined to make it at United, which makes me like the guy even more.
Hope he's given a chance, and that he takes it.
He definitely has the talent, just need to get played in the PL to get used to it.