Ange Postecoglou | New Spurs boss on 4 year contract

[Lash]

He's certainly made them a much better team than they were and the fans must be over the moon watching the football they play compared to Conte, Nuno and Mourinho. The problem I have with these type managers though, is that they are dogmatic to a philosophy that they believe given if they just stick to it, it will eventually get them a trophy. Or maybe they just hope they'll win enough and it's a bi-product, I don't know.

I do lament football these days that the objective appears to be philosophy focused and not actually focused on how to win trophies. Pep at least does specific tactical things in specific games to try and gain the advantage. The new managers just come out and say "we stick to our philosophy and it will get results". I still rate Mourinho higher than a lot of these newfangled managers for that very reason, his main focus at least is always about winning.

The fact we got outplayed most of the game and McTominay really should have won it for us in the last minute of the match, says a lot about the frailties of this philosophy.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

When has Pep ever had 36% possession in a home match?

Did the set up yesterday maximise your chances? You had 0.92 xg and more than half of that came from a header in the 95th minute.

As to the 1st question, I don't know, but it's not the point I was making so it's irrelevent.

As for the second, to an extent yes - it was the most sensible way to set up, and if we didn't make silly mistakes, we could have nicked it. But Spurs is a better team than us currently, so it was always gonna be fine margins.

 

[AneRu]

Or don't sign mount and sign a better striker

True but who was available given that Kane was a no go? We also needed an Eriksen replacement/upgrade as it could be seen that he wasn't physically able to keep up.

 

[Cassidy]

True but who was available given that Kane was a no go? We also needed an Eriksen replacement/upgrade as it could be seen that he wasn't physically able to keep up.

Osimhen

 

[Bale Bale Bale]

But Spurs is a better team than us currently

Do you just accept this without asking yourself why though? Utd just finished 3rd and won a cup, Spurs finished 8th and sold their best player. How can they be better just six months later?

 

[Cassidy]

Do you just accept this without asking yourself why though? Utd just finished 3rd and won a cup, Spurs finished 8th and sold their best player. How can they be better just six months later?

And brought in some really good signings, also previously they had also been making some good signings in Bissouma, Bentancur, Kulusevski etc. The squad is indeed better
That does not mean we should not be performing better mind you

You know what happened before they started making improved signings, they changed their DOF

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Do you just accept this without asking yourself why though?

No, I don't. Why would I?

 

[Liver_bird]

Extremely fun to watch

 

[SirScholes]

He's certainly made them a much better team than they were and the fans must be over the moon watching the football they play compared to Conte, Nuno and Mourinho. The problem I have with these type managers though, is that they are dogmatic to a philosophy that they believe given if they just stick to it, it will eventually get them a trophy. Or maybe they just hope they'll win enough and it's a bi-product, I don't know.

I do lament football these days that the objective appears to be philosophy focused and not actually focused on how to win trophies. Pep at least does specific tactical things in specific games to try and gain the advantage. The new managers just come out and say "we stick to our philosophy and it will get results". I still rate Mourinho higher than a lot of these newfangled managers for that very reason, his main focus at least is always about winning.

The fact we got outplayed most of the game and McTominay really should have won it for us in the last minute of the match, says a lot about the frailties of this philosophy.

This is very well put, end of the day a good manager will have a base but will not be afraid to change tactics in certain games. Coming to Old Trafford and playing with a high line is playing straight into our only method of attack.
Same goes for Villa, we are the easiest team to suss out.

 

[Lash]

This is very well put, end of the day a good manager will have a base but will not be afraid to change tactics in certain games. Coming to Old Trafford and playing with a high line is playing straight into our only method of attack.
Same goes for Villa, we are the easiest team to suss out.

Exactly, I was genuinely astounded with Villa's approach. Being completely non-plussed about your opponents strengths (especially when it's their only strength) seems ignorant or arrogant.

 

[Amar__]

Still think they are way too open during games, but it's quite clear that he's implemented his style pretty quickly.

Also Spurs without Son have very mediocre team, it's amazing that people think he is working with some excellent players. I bet most of their players would be squad players here at best.

 

[Stack]

He's certainly made them a much better team than they were and the fans must be over the moon watching the football they play compared to Conte, Nuno and Mourinho. The problem I have with these type managers though, is that they are dogmatic to a philosophy that they believe given if they just stick to it, it will eventually get them a trophy. Or maybe they just hope they'll win enough and it's a bi-product, I don't know.

I do lament football these days that the objective appears to be philosophy focused and not actually focused on how to win trophies. Pep at least does specific tactical things in specific games to try and gain the advantage. The new managers just come out and say "we stick to our philosophy and it will get results". I still rate Mourinho higher than a lot of these newfangled managers for that very reason, his main focus at least is always about winning.

The fact we got outplayed most of the game and McTominay really should have won it for us in the last minute of the match, says a lot about the frailties of this philosophy.

When you say he is dogmatic to a philosophy are you just repeating what everyone is saying or have you followed him as a manager for a long time to know this?

 

[Ludens the Red]

Still think they are way too open during games, but it's quite clear that he's implemented his style pretty quickly.

Also Spurs without Son have very mediocre team, it's amazing that people think he is working with some excellent players. I bet most of their players would be squad players here at best.

Yeah the goalposts change. I laughed at Neville yesterday saying so comprehensively that “Maddison, Bissouma, kulusevski, Sarr and Son would walk into Uniteds team”. He’d never have uttered such words last season under Conte.

 

[TheReligion]

Reading this thread you’d think Spurs won

 

[Lash]

When you say he is dogmatic to a philosophy are you just repeating what everyone is saying or have you followed him as a manager for a long time to know this?

It's anecdotal rather than a long list of examples. At Celtic he didn't change in the CL and suffered for it, the Chelsea game even down to 9 didn't change and his infamous "it's who we are, mate" quote.

 

[erikcred]

Reading this thread you’d think Spurs won

They got a good away point with a B team and we squandered our lead at home. Again. So that obviously feels like a loss. Not hard to understand.

 

[Stack]

It's anecdotal rather than a long list of examples. At Celtic he didn't change in the CL and suffered for it, the Chelsea game even down to 9 didn't change and his infamous "it's who we are, mate" quote.

I first knew of Ange in 1999, I knew 4 Australian pro football players who all spoke of him very highly, 2 had played for him, one in the Aussie u20 set up. They spoke of him in a conversation as being a coach who would go places and that he was the best coach they had worked with. This was when NZ's first pro team started playing in Australia and I di photography work and work for the teams website. Because of that conversation and the fact I was new to coaching myself it struck a cord so I kept track of where he was and what he was doing. I attended a coaching clinic he put on in the early 2000s. he was superb. He has over the years very clearly used different tactics and approaches, his philosophy hasnt changed, he wants to score goals but he does when he has to adjust whats going on in games. I think its a huge myth that he doesnt adapt or change, its one thats become "fact" because so many people repeat the theme.

 

[Lash]

I first knew of Ange in 1999, I knew 4 Australian pro football players who all spoke of him very highly, 2 had played for him, one in the Aussie u20 set up. They spoke of him in a conversation as being a coach who would go places and that he was the best coach they had worked with. This was when NZ's first pro team started playing in Australia and I di photography work and work for the teams website. Because of that conversation and the fact I was new to coaching myself it struck a cord so I kept track of where he was and what he was doing. I attended a coaching clinic he put on in the early 2000s. he was superb. He has over the years very clearly used different tactics and approaches, his philosophy hasnt changed, he wants to score goals but he does when he has to adjust whats going on in games. I think its a huge myth that he doesnt adapt or change, its one thats become "fact" because so many people repeat the theme.

That's fair enough, they will know the nuance far better than me having listen to his messages, I'm solely basing it on the teams performances I've seen. They definitely do not change in game to be more pragmatic when the situation arises, but maybe that's because it's his first season and it's easier to just instil that as gospel first and the next step is adapting to in game situations. I guess that's because most coaches don't get longer than 2-3 seasons, so we never see the final product.

 

[Stack]

That's fair enough, they will know the nuance far better than me having listen to his messages, I'm solely basing it on the teams performances I've seen. They definitely do not change in game to be more pragmatic when the situation arises, but maybe that's because it's his first season and it's easier to just instil that as gospel first and the next step is adapting to in game situations. I guess that's because most coaches don't get longer than 2-3 seasons, so we never see the final product.

BTW I dont think he is what we need at Utd but I do like what he does as a coach.

 

[crossy1686]

Reading this thread you’d think Spurs won

Morally, spiritually, and philosophically, I think they did.

 

[Lash]

BTW I dont think he is what we need at Utd but I do like what he does as a coach.

I like what he does too, but I do think there's a question mark there when it comes to the elite game on how he adapts his buccaneering style to opponents, occasions and game situations.

It's similar to my problem with Howe - albeit I think Ange's style is much better. On a game by game basis, it's fantastic to watch and you'll get some top results, but over a 50-60 game season, your squad is obliterated and smarter coaches exploit your obvious weaknesses.

 

[Stack]

I like what he does too, but I do think there's a question mark there when it comes to the elite game on how he adapts his buccaneering style to opponents, occasions and game situations.

It's similar to my problem with Howe - albeit I think Ange's style is much better. On a game by game basis, it's fantastic to watch and you'll get some top results, but over a 50-60 game season, your squad is obliterated and smarter coaches exploit your obvious weaknesses.

I think if for example we had the next up and coming Haarland or Bellingham, who would they choose, Pep or Ange? I dont think he has the reputation that would enable us to attract the very best new talent.

 

[Bale Bale Bale]

I think if for example we had the next up and coming Haarland or Bellingham, who would they choose, Pep or Ange? I dont think he has the reputation that would enable us to attract the very best new talent.

Good luck finding a manager with the reputation to beat Pep to a player.

 

[Stack]

Good luck finding a manager with the reputation to beat Pep to a player.

Well you get the point I was making

 

[TheReligion]

They got a good away point with a B team and we squandered our lead at home. Again. So that obviously feels like a loss. Not hard to understand.

That makes no sense in a Spurs thread

 

[BuddaBuddy]

That's fair enough, they will know the nuance far better than me having listen to his messages, I'm solely basing it on the teams performances I've seen. They definitely do not change in game to be more pragmatic when the situation arises, but maybe that's because it's his first season and it's easier to just instil that as gospel first and the next step is adapting to in game situations. I guess that's because most coaches don't get longer than 2-3 seasons, so we never see the final product.

I'd definately put Postecoglou on the dogmatic end of the spectrum, but I believe the above is an exaggeration.
You could see it yesterday, we chose to play more solid in the last 5-10 mins, settling for a decent draw.

 

[Lash]

I'd definately put Postecoglou on the dogmatic end of the spectrum, but I believe the above is an exaggeration.
You could see it yesterday, we chose to play more solid in the last 5-10 mins, settling for a decent draw.

I'm not sure I saw it that way, but you'd probably notice a difference more than me. You may have sat a bit deeper, but it wasn't very compact.

 

[Liberatore]

He's certainly made them a much better team than they were and the fans must be over the moon watching the football they play compared to Conte, Nuno and Mourinho. The problem I have with these type managers though, is that they are dogmatic to a philosophy that they believe given if they just stick to it, it will eventually get them a trophy. Or maybe they just hope they'll win enough and it's a bi-product, I don't know.

I do lament football these days that the objective appears to be philosophy focused and not actually focused on how to win trophies. Pep at least does specific tactical things in specific games to try and gain the advantage. The new managers just come out and say "we stick to our philosophy and it will get results". I still rate Mourinho higher than a lot of these newfangled managers for that very reason, his main focus at least is always about winning.

The fact we got outplayed most of the game and McTominay really should have won it for us in the last minute of the match, says a lot about the frailties of this philosophy.

It's anecdotal rather than a long list of examples. At Celtic he didn't change in the CL and suffered for it, the Chelsea game even down to 9 didn't change and his infamous "it's who we are, mate" quote.

Had to register here just to say I agree with you completely. 100% right. I am saying this as a Tottenham fan from Australia who watched his Brisbane Roar teams.

You cannot have success playing just one way. All the great managers over the years knew how and when to change things up. Continuing to play high-line against Chelsea when you're down to 9 men and having lost your starting CBs and LB is questionable to say the least.

 

[Lash]

Had to register here just to say I agree with you completely. 100% right. I am saying this as a Tottenham fan from Australia who watched his Brisbane Roar teams.

You cannot have success playing just one way. All the great managers over the years knew how and when to change things up. Continuing to play high-line against Chelsea when you're down to 9 men and having lost your starting CBs and LB is questionable to say the least.

Welcome .

It will definitely get you to around the top, because it's an exciting way to play - that will attract top players. He also seems to be able to get more out of the sum of the parts than other teams. It's that next step I worry about with him, as I say, maybe he will do it more next season and this is just the building an extremely high floor.

 

[Ekeke]

He's certainly made them a much better team than they were and the fans must be over the moon watching the football they play compared to Conte, Nuno and Mourinho. The problem I have with these type managers though, is that they are dogmatic to a philosophy that they believe given if they just stick to it, it will eventually get them a trophy. Or maybe they just hope they'll win enough and it's a bi-product, I don't know.

I do lament football these days that the objective appears to be philosophy focused and not actually focused on how to win trophies. Pep at least does specific tactical things in specific games to try and gain the advantage. The new managers just come out and say "we stick to our philosophy and it will get results". I still rate Mourinho higher than a lot of these newfangled managers for that very reason, his main focus at least is always about winning.

The fact we got outplayed most of the game and McTominay really should have won it for us in the last minute of the match, says a lot about the frailties of this philosophy.

Well yeah they werent perfect either but they had twice as many shots and if they had done better with those McTom wouldnt have had the gamewinning chance would he?

Dont you think Werner missing 5 shots was more of a factor? He had 5 attempts with 0 on target. As a whole Spurs had 6 on target to United's 2, so twice as many shots and thrice as many shots on target despite Werner missing all 5 of his.

 

[LilienFan]

Well yeah they werent perfect either but they had twice as many shots and if they had done better with those McTom wouldnt have had the gamewinning chance would he?

Dont you think Werner missing 5 shots was more of a factor? He had 5 attempts with 0 on target. As a whole Spurs had 6 on target to United's 2, so twice as many shots and thrice as many shots on target despite Werner missing all 5 of his.

Which of Werner´s shots were considered top class chances? Those were all basically punts from outside the box. But I get where the perception after the game is coming from. The bias and agenda driven commentary of the PEL (Premier Entertainment League) is second to none. The commentary went on and on about his poor shots, how you want more goals and all that crap. He was directly involved in the winning of the corner that led to the 1-1 and he provided an direct assist to the 2-2.

In total he had two training sessions with the team, hasn´t started a game for 2-3 months, and yet this was not a good performance? United are practicing together for 18 months under ETH now and most of the players still have no connection with each other, sense of where their next outlet is or where they should move next aka as patterns of play.

I thought this was a very good debut for Werner. If you move him to the right side, you have a guy that will provide plenty of service for Richarlison and Son.

Timo Werner has played 57 PL games with 10 goals and 14 assists.
Luis Diaz has played 49 PL games with 11 goals and 6 assists.

Yet the commentators will wank themselves silly over what a stud signing Diaz has been for Liverpool, while they will label Werner a bust at every opportunity.

Just as the commentary (and by extension some United fans) will complain about United needing a veteran striker, cause Hojlund is not ready with his EPL goal scoring drought. When it´s so obvious that Hojlund is a huge talent, but you actually have to provide him with some service. You need players that can spot his runs and are un-selfish enough to set him up, like that donkey Werner.

If there was a United squad draft, I´d have two debates/questions:

1. Who goes #1 and #2 between Mainoo and Hojlund.
2. Do I real have to make a 3rd pick.

 

[Ekeke]

Which of Werner´s shots were considered top class chances? Those were all basically punts from outside the box. But I get where the perception after the game is coming from. The bias and agenda driven commentary of the PEL (Premier Entertainment League) is second to none. The commentary went on and on about his poor shots, how you want more goals and all that crap. He was directly involved in the winning of the corner that led to the 1-1 and he provided an direct assist to the 2-2.

In total he had two training sessions with the team, hasn´t started a game for 2-3 months, and yet this was not a good performance? United are practicing together for 18 months under ETH now and most of the players still have no connection with each other, sense of where their next outlet is or where they should move next aka as patterns of play.

I thought this was a very good debut for Werner. If you move him to the right side, you have a guy that will provide plenty of service for Richarlison and Son.

Timo Werner has played 57 PL games with 10 goals and 14 assists.
Luis Diaz has played 49 PL games with 11 goals and 6 assists.

Yet the commentators will wank themselves silly over what a stud signing Diaz has been for Liverpool, while they will label Werner a bust at every opportunity.

Just as the commentary (and by extension some United fans) will complain about United needing a veteran striker, cause Hojlund is not ready with his EPL goal scoring drought. When it´s so obvious that Hojlund is a huge talent, but you actually have to provide him with some service. You need players that can spot his runs and are un-selfish enough to set him up, like that donkey Werner.

If there was a United squad draft, I´d have two debates/questions:

1. Who goes #1 and #2 between Mainoo and Hojlund.
2. Do I real have to make a 3rd pick.

Off the top of my head, a headed chance from inside the box wide, a shot he dragged wide with his left foot very much like McTom's shot before missing his header

Both of those should have been on target at least

 

[USREDEVIL]

Morally, spiritually, and philosophically, I think they did.

They came to OT, played better than us, and came from behind twice. They fecking won in a sense.

 

[Lash]

Well yeah they werent perfect either but they had twice as many shots and if they had done better with those McTom wouldnt have had the gamewinning chance would he?

Dont you think Werner missing 5 shots was more of a factor? He had 5 attempts with 0 on target. As a whole Spurs had 6 on target to United's 2, so twice as many shots and thrice as many shots on target despite Werner missing all 5 of his.

Not really the point I'm making though. The game at 93rd minute was looking mostly likely a draw for both teams, in that situation, giving up a free header in the center of the box doesn't scream keeping it tight.

It's more the quality of chance they give up. A little bit like us, except we're shit going forward too.

 

[Ekeke]

Not really the point I'm making though. The game at 93rd minute was looking mostly likely a draw for both teams, in that situation, giving up a free header in the center of the box doesn't scream keeping it tight.

It's more the quality of chance they give up. A little bit like us, except we're shit going forward too.

I dont think many people would have a problem with a team trying to outscore their opponent. Most fans want that. That was Spurs philosophy against us and why they had 3 times as many shots on target and it was very clear at the weekend that its a better one that we have. So its very weird to be concerned about theirs. Its much better than ours

 

[Lash]

I dont think many people would have a problem with a team trying to outscore their opponent. Most fans want that. That was Spurs philosophy against us and why they had 3 times as many shots on target and it was very clear at the weekend that its a better one that we have. So its very weird to be concerned about theirs. Its much better than ours

Again, this has nothing to do with our philosophy and style - I know we're not very good and I also said it's a much more attractive way to play for fans.

I am talking about Ange as a manager challenging for the top honours and using that as an example of where he needs to improve if he is going to be an elite manager.

 

[poleglass red]

Again, this has nothing to do with our philosophy and style - I know we're not very good and I also said it's a much more attractive way to play for fans.

I am talking about Ange as a manager challenging for the top honours and using that as an example of where he needs to improve if he is going to be an elite manager.

This season was always a free hit for him. Next season we can probably judge him more. In saying that, coming to the PL and losing your top striker before the season starts, then completely changing the way the team plays, the injuries to key players, he has done remarkably well this season. He came to Old Trafford with injuries, as we had as well, but they didn't have Son, and they still dominated us. He's their main goal threat, we weren't missing any player that has as much influence over his teams attacking play as that. His signings have been excellent so far . He did show a great eye for scouting players at Celtic, the concern was, could he carry that onto a bigger stage, so far he has.

 

[Lash]

This season was always a free hit for him. Next season we can probably judge him more. In saying that, coming to the PL and losing your top striker before the season starts, then completely changing the way the team plays, the injuries to key players, he has done remarkably well this season. He came to Old Trafford with injuries, as we had as well, but they didn't have Son, and they still dominated us. He's their main goal threat, we weren't missing any player that has as much influence over his teams attacking play as that. His signings have been excellent so far . He did show a great eye for scouting players at Celtic, the concern was, could he carry that onto a bigger stage, so far he has.

Yeah, I did allude to that in another post. I mean we were playing with Jonny Evans and no recognized LB lets not forget that. My concern coming from Celtic was if he played suicide football he'll get taken apart by teams, which he has mitigated to a large extent to having a great attacking unit and the partnership of Van De Ven and Romero. I'd argue it's the best in the league considering how much space they have to defend. It's how he adapts that to win competitions will be his next challenge.

 

[Melbourne Red]

Timo Werner has played 57 PL games with 10 goals and 14 assists.
Luis Diaz has played 49 PL games with 11 goals and 6 assists.

Yet the commentators will wank themselves silly over what a stud signing Diaz has been for Liverpool, while they will label Werner a bust at every opportunity.

For what it's worth, Liverpool fans generally think he's been poor other than his first half a season when he was excellent.

A bit of leniency is of course due given he had a long-term injury and probably some ongoing trauma from his father's kidnapping.

 

[mathrait]

Season over in Jan already