Anti-knife chicken and chips campaign

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Sara125, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. Aug 15, 2019
    #41

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    47,477
    Knife crime is more common among young men, more common among young men from low income households, and even more common among young black men from low income households. All three of those groups visit chicken shops more than average and that difference increases as you go through each group.

    Regardless of whether it's appropriate to target crime messaging to the groups that perpetrate it most often, or whether reaching them at this point in this way is an effective deterrent, it's a matter of fact that the targeting is supported by the evidence. And the targeting is to utilise the money for this campaign most efficiently. Just because it fits with a cultural stereotype doesn't change that.
  2. Aug 15, 2019
    #42

    Red Defence Full Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2009
    Messages:
    12,699
    Location:
    “United stands for attacking, attractive football
    Where I come from everybody eats chicken and chips. The takeaway places do seem to be mostly frequented by the younger generation though who loiter at night and might be prone to hanging around in groups (or gangs). The proportion of different ethnicities will differ according to each area and in the area I live the larger proportion hanging around these places are usually white. Don’t see how that’s racial targeting.
  3. Aug 15, 2019
    #43

    P-Nut fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    15,485
    Location:
    Oldham, Greater Manchester
    I'm not so sure about the thought process behind it. And also don't see it playing out in the same way for problems that may be more likely in other ethnic groups.

    For instance, if young white males took the most drugs in the country. Would we see a campaign target solely at them, or would they use the funds to target the wider problem?
  4. Aug 15, 2019
    #44

    Fully Fledged Full Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    11,021
    Location:
    Midlands UK
    Why can't they just target the young on social media? Use targeted messaging like CA used to get people to vote fro Trump and Brexit.
  5. Aug 15, 2019
    #45

    Jippy Sleeps with tramps, bangs jacuzzis, dirty shoes Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    43,895
    Location:
    Jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams
    Yeah but that's your area. If you go to Shepherd's Bush KFC -the nastiest KFC ever, as an aside- the ethnic mix is the complete opposite.
    Aren't you in Devon?
  6. Aug 15, 2019
    #46

    Red Defence Full Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2009
    Messages:
    12,699
    Location:
    “United stands for attacking, attractive football
    So I’m right then, it varies depending on the area. No I’m just outside Greater Manchester.
  7. Aug 15, 2019
    #47

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    47,477
    They would, and have been, doing both for decades. Mass messaging and highly targeted campaigns have very different functions, flaws and impacts and it's a never ending problem so campaigns exactly like this will always take place. And they will unfortunately always come up against PC silliness, because it is a matter of fact that crime differs significantly across key social and economic classifications.

    Whether the attempted solution it is in any way attuned to the root causes of the issue is an unanswerable question with the information we have available. It's incredibly complex and most people decide based on broad principles, which differ significantly - and that's perfectly normal in healthy societies. If this reignites that debate then that's a good thing.

    The actual targeting is largely irrelevant. You either think targeted messaging works or it doesn't. You either think the problem of crime can be solved in this very direct way or you don't. If you believe both of them then the targeting is appropriate and the delivery will be effective, as long as the message resonates. The evidence does support the target audience definition. If you believe neither of the former then this one example doesn't matter. All of these campaigns are a wasted attempt at crime reduction and prevention and damaging to social cohesion regardless. It's just an opportunity for PC outrage.

    I happen to think targeted messaging like this is incredibly ineffective and the theory informing the crime prevention strategy is very sketchy. But it would be silly for me to have so much conviction in that thought that I would ridicule the campaign, when people who have studied and tried to tackle the problem for decades are still very divided on both counts because of its complexity.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  8. Aug 15, 2019
    #48

    RedTiger Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Messages:
    14,245
    Location:
    Beside the sea-side, Beside the sea.
    They should advertise in JD sports instead
  9. Aug 15, 2019
    #49

    Jippy Sleeps with tramps, bangs jacuzzis, dirty shoes Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    43,895
    Location:
    Jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams
    Ah, I'm thinking of Red Tiger then? Yeah of course re areas and the likes of Chicken Cottage tend to be in crappier areas, which in London at least generally have higher populations of ethnic minorities.

    On C4 news it was odd cos you had a black youth berating the stereotyping, while a black chicken shop owner was all for it. Saying that , the youth's arguments about tackling systemic racism trumped the whole idea.
  10. Aug 15, 2019
    #50

    RedTiger Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Messages:
    14,245
    Location:
    Beside the sea-side, Beside the sea.
    No jippy, I'm from Darsat
  11. Aug 15, 2019
    #51

    Jippy Sleeps with tramps, bangs jacuzzis, dirty shoes Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    43,895
    Location:
    Jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams
    Ah crap, I'm having a mare here...
  12. Aug 15, 2019
    #52

    Lennon7 nipple flasher and door destroyer

    Joined:
    May 8, 2013
    Messages:
    8,948
    Location:
    M5
    It’s such a fecking Tory thing to do to put them on fecking chicken boxes. Most likely exclusively in rough areas. What does it achieve? It’s embarrassingly out of touch and I can just hear the accents around a boardroom table trying to understand estranged youth and what they enjoy.

    I want to say at least it’s something but this is just ridiculous.
  13. Aug 15, 2019
    #53

    BobbyManc Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Messages:
    6,559
    Location:
    The Wall
    Supports:
    Man City
    The Tory Government would rather pay to put some stupid lines inside a box of chicken in a half-arsed attempt to be seen to be doing something to tackle knife crime rather than actually invest into deprived areas and poor neighbourhoods. You're giving them far too much credit. I do not believe anyone who has researched problems like this for decades could seriously come to the conclusion that this is a wise approach. The backlash to it alone already should tell you what a poorly thought out idea it is. And 'poorly thought out' is probably the most generous take I could give. Forget the "PC" aspect to it, which in itself is a symptom of the utter lack of serious thought behind this, it's just a total waste of money. A government message on a chicken box is not going to resonate with a disaffected youth living in an area rife with poverty.
  14. Aug 15, 2019
    #54

    Nanook Full Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,577
    Location:
    The Horsehead Nebula
    Does the fried chicken stereotype about black people even exist in the UK? It doesn’t seem like it does.
  15. Aug 15, 2019
    #55

    P-Nut fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    15,485
    Location:
    Oldham, Greater Manchester
    Most definitely.
  16. Aug 15, 2019
    #56

    Red Defence Full Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2009
    Messages:
    12,699
    Location:
    “United stands for attacking, attractive football
    We have to remember that youths of today do hang around certain places at night and one of those types of places is the takeaway, and chicken and chip places along are the favourite. No point targeting Michelin starred pubs/restaurants because those customers get others to do their knife crime.
  17. Aug 15, 2019
    #57

    Red Defence Full Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2009
    Messages:
    12,699
    Location:
    “United stands for attacking, attractive football
    I would disagree with that.

    Fish and chips, pie and chips, sausage and chip and chicken and chips (when you could afford it) have long been British favourites. My gran loved chicken and chips and if she was alive she would be 118 yrs old today.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  18. Aug 15, 2019
    #58

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    47,477
    No one thinks putting a message on a box is more effective than eliminating poverty, social deprivation and a lack of purpose, along with all of the other things we think lead to crime. Those things cost more money than we know and certainly more money than we have, when balanced up against all of the other nations' priorities. It's just one incredibly small tool used in a massive toolkit to tackle a problem that the entire human race still don't understand anywhere near well enough to solve.

    The motivations behind doing it are different for a wide range of stakeholders. The tories were not the people who created and developed the idea. Nor were they the people who designed or executed the campaign. So yes you can believe it is a terrible idea but you can't believe the reason this happened is because this one group had this one motivation and this was the result. It is factually untrue. And the likelihood that all of them had that shared motivation is so small that it isn't even worth considering.

    They are the ones who gave the green light and their motivations for doing so are undoubtedly largely driven by all of the terrible incentives in politics we know about, and fuelled by many of the in my view terrible attitudes towards society we agree they have. But you and others focusing solely on that one element - that one decision maker of many, that political enemy you're so accustomed to vilifying - is also driven by many of the terrible incentives in political thinking.

    It might be a terrible idea but to believe you know it is because you understand the complex nature of how political messaging works on such a specific level is ludicrous, in my view. We don't even know how people form a thought. And there's all sorts of evidence that attitude changes can be influenced by seemingly ridiculous things, when lots of seemingly random events work together. Tieing this back to a political slogan and then saying this is why it happened and this is why it will fail...baffles me. But that is what happens in politics so it's just one obvious example of my own ignorance.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  19. Aug 15, 2019
    #59

    Jippy Sleeps with tramps, bangs jacuzzis, dirty shoes Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    43,895
    Location:
    Jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams
    Not even sure what we're debating anymore as we seem to be agreeing.
  20. Aug 15, 2019
    #60

    Red Defence Full Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2009
    Messages:
    12,699
    Location:
    “United stands for attacking, attractive football
    Oh that’s good then.
  21. Aug 15, 2019
    #61

    Kentonio Full Member Scout

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Messages:
    10,123
    Location:
    Stamford Bridge
    The thought the stereotype of blacks and fried chicken is an American racial stereotype not a British one.
  22. Aug 15, 2019
    #62

    Dumbstar Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Messages:
    14,477
    Location:
    Viva Karius!
    Supports:
    Liverpool
    I don't get it. So you only get a fork? :confused:
  23. Aug 15, 2019
    #63

    RedTiger Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Messages:
    14,245
    Location:
    Beside the sea-side, Beside the sea.
    I think it's more associated with poor people. Go to predominantly Asian areas or working class white areas and its chicken shops as far as the eye can see.
  24. Aug 15, 2019
    #64

    Kentonio Full Member Scout

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Messages:
    10,123
    Location:
    Stamford Bridge
    I can’t stand the stuff. :p
  25. Aug 15, 2019
    #65

    Jippy Sleeps with tramps, bangs jacuzzis, dirty shoes Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    43,895
    Location:
    Jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams
    :lol:I guess. It's been a long day.
  26. Aug 15, 2019
    #66

    SalfordRed18 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    6,326
    Location:
    Salford
    Black people loving chicken is a stereotype known all around the world not just America.
  27. Aug 15, 2019
    #67

    711 Full Member Scout

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2007
    Messages:
    19,270
    Location:
    Don't Sign Old Players
    How do you know this? What sort of comments or jokes or whatever have you seen or heard? I seem to have missed it completely.
  28. Aug 15, 2019
    #68

    Red Defence Full Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2009
    Messages:
    12,699
    Location:
    “United stands for attacking, attractive football
    Well I’d never heard about that until I read it on this forum in the last year or two.
  29. Aug 15, 2019
    #69

    Jippy Sleeps with tramps, bangs jacuzzis, dirty shoes Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    43,895
    Location:
    Jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams
    Really? Don't you remember the shitshow when Sergio Garcia said Tiger Woods was welcome round his for dinner and he'd cook him fried chicken a few years ago?
  30. Aug 15, 2019
    #70

    P-Nut fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    15,485
    Location:
    Oldham, Greater Manchester
    I work on the railway, which is about 20 years behind normal society so racism, sexism etc is quite common.

    I constantly get comments when I say I'm going to get some food, but it's usually joking from mates.

    Also if you asked any of our childhood friends they'd all tell you chicken is any black guys favourite food.

    I suppose it depends where you grew up, I'm from Oldham so it's a poor rundown area and so people's views haven't quite caught up with modern times.

    I'm guessing the same views would be found in the more rundown areas of the country.
  31. Aug 15, 2019
    #71

    diarm Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    9,600
    Location:
    Dublin
    This is a good shout. Instead of bankrupting Cambridge Analytica, governments should have enlisted them to start brainwashing people into not carrying knives, not shooting up schools, not taking drugs etc.

    Actually I've just read that back and it sounds like the first scene of a weird episode of Black Mirror.
  32. Aug 15, 2019
    #72

    711 Full Member Scout

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2007
    Messages:
    19,270
    Location:
    Don't Sign Old Players
    Thanks for the background. I understand the railway, I worked there forty years, and the north, I'm from Preston, and living in rundown areas, and I have a very diverse collection of mates, to say the least. I've never heard any of this chicken stuff though, but obviously you have, so fair enough.
  33. Aug 15, 2019
    #73

    haram Full Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    12,624
    The kids who are a part of this gang culture eat at these shops, regardless of race. Young kids in general who live in these areas affected by knife crime eat at these shops. The idea itself though, I’m not sure it will achieve much.
  34. Aug 16, 2019
    #74

    SalfordRed18 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    6,326
    Location:
    Salford
    Well then you actively bury your head under the sand or simply live under a rock. Take your pick.
  35. Aug 16, 2019
    #75

    SalfordRed18 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    6,326
    Location:
    Salford
    I refuse to believe that people genuinely thought black people loving chicken is a stereotype only in the US.

    If you said something like grape juice or kool aid, I'd understand you not knowing since those are things that are lot more popular and common in the states. Fair game. But surely you know chicken?
  36. Aug 16, 2019
    #76

    Nanook Full Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,577
    Location:
    The Horsehead Nebula
    If you asked the average guy on the street to name as many stereotypes about black people as he could think of I’m fairly certain he wouldn’t mention chicken.
  37. Aug 16, 2019
    #77

    Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær Lutefisk is it!

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    75,322
    Location:
    il pentimento
    Supports:
    Moanchester United
    Well, I've never actually met you @Kentoinio so my point stands.
  38. Aug 16, 2019
    #78

    Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær Lutefisk is it!

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    75,322
    Location:
    il pentimento
    Supports:
    Moanchester United
    Fried chicken, watermelon and menthol cigarettes would be my first three answers.
  39. Aug 16, 2019
    #79

    SalfordRed18 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    6,326
    Location:
    Salford
    I'm 100% certain he would.
  40. Aug 16, 2019
    #80

    Nanook Full Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,577
    Location:
    The Horsehead Nebula
    I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t. Are you black? If so you’re going to be more aware about the stereotypes of your own race than the average person would be. I’m sure there are many stereotypes about Polish and Romanian people that the majority of Brit don’t have a clue about.

    Growing up I never heard any jokes or comments about black people liking chicken. I only first heard about it when this Australian KFC advert went viral in America for being supposedly racist. It wasn’t seen as the slightest bit racist or insensitive in Australia.




    “The fried-chicken/black-people stereotype is virtually unknown outside the U.S. ”

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kfcs-racist-ad-reveals-american-consumers-ignorance/