Antonio Valencia | 2009/10 Performances

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BaldwinLegend

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His crossing makes chances thats for sure, you just dont often see him put it on a plate for someone or play a near perfect cross like some other players out there with great ability to shape a cross. The player in the middle generally has a decent job on to turn the ball into the net which needn't always be the case, not if you're the best crosser in your team.
Wowsers... How anyone who claims to have watched United play last season can say that straight faced is beyond me.

Say that to Rooney and he'd probably wee on you. How many goals did he score last season from inch perfect balls from Valencia?
 

Xander45

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See I didnt say he hadnt done a great job. I said he had a very good game. But when you're as good as Valencia is at getting space to cross, beating his man, or getting one on one with a defender and bursting past them when you have several men at the back post waiting for a cross... If you're that good a crosser you should be making the most of that situation 2/3 times. His crossing makes chances thats for sure, you just dont often see him put it on a plate for someone or play a near perfect cross like some other players out there with great ability to shape a cross. The player in the middle generally has a decent job on to turn the ball into the net which needn't always be the case, not if you're the best crosser in your team.
The ball to Scholes where he volleyed over, the ball to Park that was blocked, the ball to Hernandez for the goal. There's three from one game, either you're a poor wum or just a bit mental.
 

sincher

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I really like Valencia - an excellent signing I think.
 

kouroux

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I used to think his crossing was shit last season.Either I was completely wrong and delusional or he has really improved it a lot over the course of last season.
A player who creates many goalscoring opportunities with his crossing can be only be very good at it.
 

Alwyn

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I don't think it was ever shit, it just wasn't as good as it should have been when you take into account the positions he gets himself into. He seemed to pull crosses quite a lot at the start of last season, but then he began mixing it up a bit.

He's capable of absolutely fantastic balls though, that volleyed cross to set up a Rooney header last season stands our for me.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I used to think his crossing was shit last season.Either I was completely wrong and delusional or he has really improved it a lot over the course of last season
I do think it's improved. I don't think it was ever "shit" though.

He likes to pick out players, rather than whip the ball into a dangerous area and hope someone gets on the end of it. This means he will make a lot of duff crosses while he's getting used to the movement of our strikers.

Which is why it's great to see him read Hernandez so well already. That's two goals put on on a plate for Cheech in two consecutive games.
 

BaldwinLegend

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If his crossing was 'a bit shit' at the beginning of last season you don't think that might have something to do with him getting accustomed to playing for Manchester United? Since he's settled in he's been our most reliable provider of chances.
 

kouroux

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I do think it's improved. I don't think it was ever "shit" though.

He likes to pick out players, rather than whip the ball into a dangerous area and hope someone gets on the end of it. This means he will make a lot of duff crosses while he's getting used to the movement of our strikers.

Which is why it's great to see him read Hernandez so well already. That's two goals put on on a plate for Cheech in two consecutive games.
Yeah it's exactly.
I had a misconception that a great crosser was someone who could "bend" the ball and guide it towards dangerous areas but I realized it doesn't mean anything (specially when I watched Sagna crossing the ball.He can bend the ball but it rarely creates something)
The beauty of the ball's trajectory doesn't relate to chances created, only a few select could make both (Beckham for instance).Valencia's crossing is not "beautiful" to the eye but it's very efficient.

If his crossing was 'a bit shit' at the beginning of last season you don't think that might have something to do with him getting accustomed to playing for Manchester United? Since he's settled in he's been our most reliable provider of chances.
I was obviously wrong.I admit it
I'm trying to make an effort to not judge players too quickly
 

Pogue Mahone

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Yeah it's exactly.
I had a misconception that a great crosser was someone who could "bend" the ball and guide it towards dangerous areas but I realized it doesn't mean anything (specially when I watched Sagna crossing the ball.He can bend the ball but it rarely creates something)
The beauty of the ball's trajectory doesn't relate to chances created, only a few select could make both (Beckham for instance).Valencia's crossing is not "beautiful" to the eye but it's very efficient.
Nicely put.

Are you sure English is your second language? ;)
 

Chirag

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Let's say that "Google translate " is my best friend sometimes.
Unless your joking.. That would explain the number of times I don't quite understand what your saying after you quoted my post or while having a discussion with me and clearly mis-understanding what I have said..
 

kouroux

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I am not.It's a real effort to understand you (as in caftards) for someone like me and it's another effort to try to participate in debates.If there's been confusions, I'm really sorry.
I didn't mean I translate my entire posts via the google tool, more like a few words here and there.It's a struggle but it's the only way to improve my English.
 

Blair

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I am not.It's a real effort to understand you (as in caftards) for someone like me and it's another effort to try to participate in debates.If there's been confusions, I'm really sorry.
I didn't mean I translate my entire posts via the google tool, more like a few words here and there.It's a struggle but it's the only way to improve my English.
Fair play :)

I wonder how us Brits would get on talking shit on a French forum. What's French for 'muppetry'? :D
 

Chirag

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I am not.It's a real effort to understand you (as in caftards) for someone like me and it's another effort to try to participate in debates.If there's been confusions, I'm really sorry.
I didn't mean I translate my entire posts via the google tool, more like a few words here and there.It's a struggle but it's the only way to improve my English.
No worries mate.. I look forward to our next discussion just to eventually blame you for not understanding me..

Fair play :)

I wonder how us Brits would get on talking shit on a French forum. What's French for 'muppetry'? :D
:lol:
 

Ekeke

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Wowsers... How anyone who claims to have watched United play last season can say that straight faced is beyond me.

Say that to Rooney and he'd probably wee on you. How many goals did he score last season from inch perfect balls from Valencia?
Anybody can watch football. Not everyone can understand certain aspects of it. Clearly thats where you've come up short here.

Why dont you tell me how many inch perfect balls Rooney was played by Valencia last season since you're so keen to find out? And then compare that to how many crosses he sent in last season and find out his ratio.
 

BaldwinLegend

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Anybody can watch football. Not everyone can understand certain aspects of it. Clearly thats where you've come up short here.

Why dont you tell me how many inch perfect balls Rooney was played by Valencia last season since you're so keen to find out? And then compare that to how many crosses he sent in last season and find out his ratio.
How about I don't?

I don't bother with football stats as I don't have the time. I do clearly recall watching a lot of United games last season though where Rooney scored headers from Valencia crosses. If you want to spend all day on the internet trying to prove me wrong, feel free.
 

Rado_N

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Wowsers... How anyone who claims to have watched United play last season can say that straight faced is beyond me.

Say that to Rooney and he'd probably wee on you. How many goals did he score last season from inch perfect balls from Valencia?
:lol:
 

Ekeke

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How about I don't?

I don't bother with football stats as I don't have the time. I do clearly recall watching a lot of United games last season though where Rooney scored headers from Valencia crosses. If you want to spend all day on the internet trying to prove me wrong, feel free.
So every cross Valencia played that Rooney scored from with his head, was inch perfect?

Christ. No wonder you cant be bothered to back up what you say.
 

Ubik

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He crosses as he does, in my view, since that's the most effective method from the positions he usually finds himself in. The whipped cross favoured by Beckham and the like is, more often than not, done from deep and almost on the touchline. It needs pace on it or it'll be easy to defend, and it focuses on a general direction into the box for maximum effect, rather than picking out individuals. Valencia on the other hand is pacy as feck and will regularly beat his man and get to the touchline. Plus, more often than not, he's nearer the edge of the area than he is the rightside touchline. From there, it's far more possible to be hitting players, rather than just relying on putting it into dangerous areas and hoping someone gets on the end of it.

It's the beauty of Valencia really. Whilst Nani can perform all the tricks and beat a player from a running start with his pace, Valencia can go from a standing start from deep in the right wing, to the touchline, regularly. He doesn't rely on fooling a player with stepovers or whatever, he'll just do his "one trick pony" move of shifting it past the defender and using his huge acceleration to get on the end of it. That's pretty much half the work of the whipped type cross already, then he's at the touchline and able to pick someone out, on the floor or in the air. I like it a lot.
 

Pogue Mahone

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So every cross Valencia played that Rooney scored from with his head, was inch perfect?

Christ. No wonder you cant be bothered to back up what you say.
This tangent you've gone off on about how Rooney somehow turned miscued crosses into goals through the sheer genius of his heading ability is absurd, let's be honest.
 

BaldwinLegend

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So every cross Valencia played that Rooney scored from with his head, was inch perfect?
Did I say that? Nope.

Christ. No wonder you cant be bothered to back up what you say.
What is this insane need you have for spending all day up to your ass in football statistics?

It's a lovely day in London and I've a million better things to be doing than buggering around on the internet all day trying to satisfy your needs.

As I say, feel free to tear my arguments apart with your statistical wizadry but I'm happy to stick to my impression that, on the evidence I saw with my eyes last season, Antonia Valencia is a pretty fecking good crosser.
 

Ekeke

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This tangent you've gone off on about how Rooney somehow turned miscued crosses into goals through the sheer genius of his heading ability is absurd, let's be honest.
You're doing that thing you do, again. Where you're creating a new argument for me, just so you can disagree with it and feel clever about it. Who said they were miscued? If you bothered reading this thread, I have said they were good enough crosses to create chances which is Valencia's strong point on his crossing. They gave Rooney the oppertunity to score. But he only did score most of those headers because he was going through a great spell with his headers where he was scoring 9/10 difficult headers, not just easy ones like he may of in a previous point in his career. They tended to be from a fair range from goal (for a header) and he tended to need to be moving away from goal, or to have to hit the target from a difficult angle and thats because these crosses were not laid on a plate on most occasions. Most strikers in the league, at top clubs, would not have scored half as many of them as Rooney did because of the difficulty.
 

Adebesi

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You're doing that thing you do, again. Where you're creating a new argument for me, just so you can disagree with it and feel clever about it. Who said they were miscued? If you bothered reading this thread, I have said they were good enough crosses to create chances which is Valencia's strong point on his crossing. They gave Rooney the oppertunity to score. But he only did score most of those headers because he was going through a great spell with his headers where he was scoring 9/10 difficult headers, not just easy ones like he may of in a previous point in his career. They tended to be from a fair range from goal (for a header) and he tended to need to be moving away from goal, or to have to hit the target from a difficult angle and thats because these crosses were not laid on a plate on most occasions. Most strikers in the league, at top clubs, would not have scored half as many of them as Rooney did because of the difficulty.
Seems like you are doing the same thing here:

So every cross Valencia played that Rooney scored from with his head, was inch perfect?

Christ. No wonder you cant be bothered to back up what you say.
Did he actually say every cross was inch perfect?

Valencia's crossing has been fantastic for us and I think he deserves a share of the credit for Rooney's goal scoring form.
 

Ekeke

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Seems like you are doing the same thing here:



Did he actually say every cross was inch perfect?

Valencia's crossing has been fantastic for us and I think he deserves a share of the credit for Rooney's goal scoring form.
Our conversation was about inch perfect crosses. He then moved the goalposts by talking about something else it now seems. Which is probably because he realised he was wrong.

I wasnt having a conversation with Pogue about Valencia miscuing crosses. He made that up himself.
 

Talking Vulture

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So every cross Valencia played that Rooney scored from with his head, was inch perfect?

Christ. No wonder you cant be bothered to back up what you say.
Apart from AC Milan away, I'm struggling to think of any Rooney header that would be considered as a difficult chance.

Valencia is a fantastic crosser of the ball. I don't know why you can't (or wont) accept this.
 

Commadus

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Smiling means Valencia is happy with his performance - he is not. He is more interested in the next cross. next fullback to maul, next sprint to make.

Valencia has not time to take prisoners or smile as smiling means satisfaction and he is never satisfied even if we are 42-0.
 

Carl

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He's been pretty underwhelming in the first 2 games of the season. Personally I think it's down to the full back he has behind him. I remember thinking the same thing last season in most of the games O'Shea was at right back.

His best performances last year were when we had Neville and Rafael behind him. Both make more overlapping runs and give the opposition full back (and midfielder that has doubled up) something else to think about which creates more space for Tony to exploit.

I'm hoping Rafael or Fabio will be given a game against West Ham and then I wouldnt be surprised to see Valencia tear their left back a new one.
 

Pogue Mahone

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He's been pretty underwhelming in the first 2 games of the season. Personally I think it's down to the full back he has behind him. I remember thinking the same thing last season in most of the games O'Shea was at right back.

His best performances last year were when we had Neville and Rafael behind him. Both make more overlapping runs and give the opposition full back (and midfielder that has doubled up) something else to think about which creates more space for Tony to exploit.

I'm hoping Rafael or Fabio will be given a game against West Ham and then I wouldnt be surprised to see Valencia tear their left back a new one.
I'm gonna put it down to him not having played a game of football between the game against Spurs at the end of last season and the Airtricity game in August. His performance against Chelsea was amazing, all things considered, but it's no great surprise he's been off the boil since. You can't miss out most of pre-season and expect to pick up where you left off last season.

Ronaldo had a similar operation in the summer of 08 and didn't really get fully fit and firing until the tail end of the season. I just hope Valencia can get going a bit sooner.
 
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