Grotty comment, ignore their moralising
Antony under investigation by Brazilian authorities for domestic abuse | Back in the squad
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Listen, as many have said, it's wholly possible Antony has done the things he's accused of, will be found guilty and rightly gone from the club.
But I can't be the only one unsurprised and pretty disappointed to see the victim again going through the press. She's done her part, she's filed the report, she's hired lawyers, she's already leaked (what Antony claims to be doctored) photos to the media. Now she's demanding his employer take certain actions, and further implicating said employer publically?
I'm curious what she wants from this. If it's ruining Antony's career as retribution for what he did to her, she's definitely behaving in that way. She's playing this like she's being advised by a PR firm, not legal counsel. And that just feels a bit questionable to me.
But I can't be the only one unsurprised and pretty disappointed to see the victim again going through the press. She's done her part, she's filed the report, she's hired lawyers, she's already leaked (what Antony claims to be doctored) photos to the media. Now she's demanding his employer take certain actions, and further implicating said employer publically?
I'm curious what she wants from this. If it's ruining Antony's career as retribution for what he did to her, she's definitely behaving in that way. She's playing this like she's being advised by a PR firm, not legal counsel. And that just feels a bit questionable to me.
No he didn't
I don't think that comparison really works. Ronaldo wasn't dropped from his NT or club. I don't believe the accuser went so public to have an interview ? Really my overall impression is that the claims were known at one point, you had the odd discussion about it but it was shuffled in and out the media discourse without gaining the same sort of media critical mass as the Greenwood had or Antony one seems to be headed to.
It was not inconsequential as I believe it was surmised Ronaldo was avoiding traveling to the USA because of ongoing claims and legal risk. He had to deal on his side with some legal encumbrance if only to finally settle (and doing so, making much more of an admission than Greenwood or Antony ever did so far). But he never felt that much heat, just like -so far- an unnamed player in North London or Hakimi (rape allegation{s} were made, an investigation is ongoing).
I don't think you can deny there's a massive difference in how public opinion processes and thus reacts and possibly pressures depending on media coverage intensity. And what picks up as a story echoed by media/audience is pretty inconsistent & arbitrary.
However it is too early to definitely pontificate after what the extralegal consequences were for Greenwood or Antony. I don't know what the ideal situation would be in those cases.
I think you are missing the point that we should not assume that someone is guilty and should be suspended from his / her work on the basis of mere accusations.
Unless I am missing something, no one is saying anywhere that Antony is innocent. At this stage there is not enough information to conclude either way.
It is scary to see that there is certain section of people who feel that it is correct to apply any form of sanctions based on such small amount of evidence without any scrutiny. Antony may be earning a lot of money but this does not mean that he should no be afforded basic right to defend himself without being subjected to unreasonable assumptions or sanctions.
While the DV statistics are horrific they were (as I understand) conducted on the basis of general population, not specific for celebrities / famous athletes. The latter category will inherently be more vulnerable to false accusations. Media are more interested in such stories and this gives false accusers a platform which is not the case with general population.
Again, I’m not saying that Antony is innocent or guilty. This is for the law enforcement authorities to conclude.
I’m also not saying that the woman in question is making false accusations but at the same time it is impossible to exclude such possibility.
Lastly and with all due respect, your point about “weaponising trauma” is just a cheap shot as I completely do not understand where do you see something like this.
Wtf is this shit!?
She’s not ‘weaponising her trauma’, she just happens to disagree with you and has mentioned that she’s someone who has actually dealt with DV herself, rather than, you know, someone who’s just spouting numbers and trying to mansplain the issue of DV to someone who’s actually been through it.
There’s been an increasingly uncomfortable trend on here within these topics of men trying to speak for women.
There’s a lot of it with Greenwood’s partner as well - she’s posting on IG, giving her narrative and there’s a real push of ‘I know what’s best for her better than she does’, ‘I’ll decide what’s really going on in her life’.
It’s done under the guise of ‘caring for women’, but in many cases it’s starting to really just come across as belittling and infantilising the woman, mansplaining at best.
Here you’re telling a woman that you’re ‘put off’ by her because she doesn’t agree with you and accusing her of ‘weaponising her trauma’ when she’s briefly mentioned that she’s dealt with DV first hand in order to add context to the conversation.
Maybe instead you should try actually listening to her POV instead of scattergunning numbers and telling her you know best.
feck me, it's not that hard to open up a search engine and find statistics for DA/SA in whatever country you're interested in. It's pretty bad pretty much everywhere.
Now if you look at those stats, namely stats about (sexual) violence and abuse against women, take a minute and think about it. If so many women have been affected, it means that there are a couple of maniacs on the loose who abuse most of the women OR there is a very large number of men who are abusive. Then take into account how much DA/SA goes unreported. Then maybe reconsider which hill you want to die on. The "men should trust other men by default" is one of the stupidest takes I've seen here.
You don't have to assume guilt but try not to sound like an ignorant cnut.
Now if you look at those stats, namely stats about (sexual) violence and abuse against women, take a minute and think about it. If so many women have been affected, it means that there are a couple of maniacs on the loose who abuse most of the women OR there is a very large number of men who are abusive. Then take into account how much DA/SA goes unreported. Then maybe reconsider which hill you want to die on. The "men should trust other men by default" is one of the stupidest takes I've seen here.
You don't have to assume guilt but try not to sound like an ignorant cnut.
I don't know who to believe. One of them is a masive liar and a garbage of people. To falsely accuse someone is equaly bad a to assault/abuse. The first impression is always in favor of the victim. Antony's temper on the pitch does not help too, but I find it suspicious that she came out with it just after he was selected to the Brazilian squad and now wants him to be suspended by United. Everything just after the MG saga. Not saying she is a liar, it just looks suspicious.
Not a fan of her trying to publicly pressure the club into dropping him while investigations are still ongoing. I still believe that multiple women speaking up against a man's behavior is far more likely to indicate the existence of such behavior rather than a conspiracy. But she's undermining the one system that is supposed to deliver justice by trying to play to the court of public opinion. Poorly advised, to say the least.
What is wrong with you man? The bolded part is quite possibly the scummiest paragraph I’ve ever read on these forums. Are you really so desperate to try and prove to an online forum what a moral beacon you are that you resort to that? I mean, of course you’re mates with someone who runs a non profit on this issue, I wouldn’t expect any less.
The cold hard fact is though, your stance on this is absolutely terrifying, lobbying for a society in which due process is just thrown out of the window and an accused person is considered guilty and punishment begins immediately before being proven otherwise.
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This is a bit of a red flag for me as she seems quite fixed on ruining his career and using the media as such.
He should be dropped anyway though right? The fallout from NOT dropping him and him eventually being found guilty will be far worse than dropping him and eventually him being found innocent. From a moral standpoint I think the club have an obligation to drop him. These are serious allegations.
Also his head won't be in the game. He'll be on an even shorter fuse. The last thing we need to see right now is him going mental on the pitch.
I couldn't agree more. Why is she more concerned with him not being allowed to play rather than actual justice being served if the accusations are true? To me, this weakens her reliability and with the whole media circus around her and wanting to absolutely destroy him makes it seem like this is more a case of an emotionally abusive relationship from both parts, rather than actual domestic violence. If it turns out he did it, however, I would hope he doesn't play for the club again.
100% this.
Don't know who to believe. But the framework of the justice system is innocent until proven guilty, he should therefore be able to do his job and go about his life until proven guilty or unless there is enough initial evidence in the public domain to deem it unsuitable for him to be in the workplace.
She is trying to ruin his career which straight away appears vindictive and calculated. Why not just wait for legal justice.
Looks like she's trying to ruin his career because he didn't want to be with her. Hope that turns out to be the case.
Well let’s accept for a second that’s the case, what about the other 2?
Inappropriate Behavior
Forget sunscreen.
If there's one rule to remember in life it's this.
Never. Stick. Your. Dick. In. Crazy.
(*Checks her Instagram* actually forget that, that's one sweet ass, I'd smack that (pun intended))
oh lighten up
If there's one rule to remember in life it's this.
Never. Stick. Your. Dick. In. Crazy.
(*Checks her Instagram* actually forget that, that's one sweet ass, I'd smack that (pun intended))
oh lighten up
Not sure about what the other two have accused him for. Perhaps wanting to take advantage of the situation, or Antony has messed up really badly.
In principle, I don't think the club should drop him till charges are pressed (if they are pressed, I think he should be suspended), the manager feels he's not mentally ready, or he himself requests time off. This is necessary to ensure that mere allegations can't be used to push players put of squads, since there can be malicious motivations to do so from multiple parties.
In practice, I don't think his head will be in the game anyways, and I'm glad we are going through an international break. If the situation continues to get ugly and charges still aren't pressed by the time we regroup, don't think EtH should start him.
Personally, I think it's very messy, and there isn't overwhelmingly obvious evidence (with no defense from the player like in the MG case) for me or most fans to lean either way. I know multiple women speaking up is statistically far more likely to imply his guilt than a conspiracy, but I am mistrustful of Gabriela trying to use public opinion to explicitly ruin his career. I'd rather wait for authorities to investigate first.
If he's charged, we need to do what needs to be done and kick him out. If he's not, we need to take a stand with the player to judge him only on his footballing ability and treat him like we would any other RW option despite any residual media outcry.
Three women have asccused him;
1.His ex from a highly turbulent relationship.
2.A banker who visited his house in connection with a business deal. He allgedly violently attempted to force her into sex.
3.A law student with no connection to Antony. She alleges she was physically attacked in a taxi. She filed a report long before going public.
An ex might have an agenda and could be looking to use the situation to destroy him. A random law student might just want their 15 minutes of fame, but that doesn't explain the police report.
The banker however is much harder to dismiss. She had contact with Antony in a professional capacity, she risks losing her job and there's no financial benefit for her in going public. There's nothing obvious suggesting her accusation could be a fabrication or a clear incentive for it. If those accusations are true, then it goes to a pattern of behaviour and you have to look at the other two allegations through that lens.
With that in mind the law student's allegations aren't unique. The fact that she reported the incident to police months before going public lends credibility to the allegations.
If both those allegations are true, then you have a highly unflattering description of the man's character that lines up with the stories told by the ex. His demeanour in the alleged event at the hotel in Manchester matches the demeanour that the banker alleges to have experienced.
With all of that it seems unlikely that these stories are fabricated for revenge, fame or monetary gain. It seems far more likely that the Greenwood case gave the ex hope that Antony would be held accountable, at least by fans, and the others followed suit for the same reason.
1.His ex from a highly turbulent relationship.
2.A banker who visited his house in connection with a business deal. He allgedly violently attempted to force her into sex.
3.A law student with no connection to Antony. She alleges she was physically attacked in a taxi. She filed a report long before going public.
An ex might have an agenda and could be looking to use the situation to destroy him. A random law student might just want their 15 minutes of fame, but that doesn't explain the police report.
The banker however is much harder to dismiss. She had contact with Antony in a professional capacity, she risks losing her job and there's no financial benefit for her in going public. There's nothing obvious suggesting her accusation could be a fabrication or a clear incentive for it. If those accusations are true, then it goes to a pattern of behaviour and you have to look at the other two allegations through that lens.
With that in mind the law student's allegations aren't unique. The fact that she reported the incident to police months before going public lends credibility to the allegations.
If both those allegations are true, then you have a highly unflattering description of the man's character that lines up with the stories told by the ex. His demeanour in the alleged event at the hotel in Manchester matches the demeanour that the banker alleges to have experienced.
With all of that it seems unlikely that these stories are fabricated for revenge, fame or monetary gain. It seems far more likely that the Greenwood case gave the ex hope that Antony would be held accountable, at least by fans, and the others followed suit for the same reason.
What a load of shit. If anything, comments like these are equally as bad as falsely accusing someone of abuse, both discredit and diminish the real victims.
Probably the best reasoned view I’ve seen on this thread.
Good post.
All he needs to do is proof it.
He should have the other half of the conversation (if he doesn't delete it) and prove her a lying bitch, you don't even need a court, just show their whole chat in the media.
As to what she wants from this? Maybe she really wants him to pay for what he did. I can't see money as a main factor as again.. as I have said many times.. usually threatening to go public is the main weapon of gold-digger, you lose all leverage when you go public and there's nothing else but an all out resistance from here on as the accussed have literally nothing to lose.
And if you think this is only about getting him missing football... accussing someone of rape is a serious thing, you just don't do it over wishing him missing a few international game. It's not worth ruining your image as well. So... contrary to you, I'd seems to trust those that dares to speak up and name up rather than the one hiding behind the anonymity and ended up with hush money
I can't see how he can be dropped until he has at least been arrested? As far as I know the police haven't even questioned him.
I'm curious to know why once a man is found innocent in cases like this, why don't they charge the women for damages!?
I guess finding someone innocent sometimes only means it couldn’t be proven beyond a doubt which itself doesn’t give credence to a defamation suit.
But I suppose they’d need a counter claim and there’d need to be proof of malicious intent, false information and/or falsified/doctored evidence? Otherwise it’ll be quite hard to prove both ways. But yeah, I’m no lawyer so could be very wrong in terms of how suing for damages would work.
In the U.K. what usually happens is you get dissuaded from doing so/not helped at all by the police because then your name can be published by the media. The unusual thing is it’s already all public despite no charges. Not sure about Brasil.
I'm angry that this is happening to us again, we've lost Greenwood and we are about to lose an important team player.
Why us, why can't we just have a quiet season dominated by good football related news,
Tbh I don't understand what you mean by the bold part!
Yeah it’s completely insane how much negativity & issues there is around the club or has been for the last while.
Most of it id argue is a manifestation of being run so incompetently for so long, but not sure we’re able to assign blame of these situations (both MG & Antony) to the club - unless we neglected any sort of due diligence when we panic bought Antony.
Anyway, surely now we’ve hit rock bottom and things can only improve? Hoping the football on the pitch starts improving as well. Onwards and upwards!
I think that's it for Antony. I just can't imagine all these 3 separate cases are false accusations, I mean what are the odds? Like you've said there his ex may have agenda against him, but not likely the other two. He is probably done and its best interest for the club not to play him, at least until his is cleared of everything.
I’ve got friends with no interest in football asking me wtf is happening at this club
Complete shit show on and off the field
Complete shit show on and off the field
All very logical - do you think it means that he should be suspended?
As in usually you would not have had your name plastered all over the media, and then if you pursue the false accuser you then get associated with the crime you didn’t commit by default despite your innocence.
I don't even know where to start with your post, it's a rhetorical mess filled with victim shaming and personal attacks that seemingly are the result of feeling like your "expertise" was invalidated by the revelation that the poster has experienced DV.
This is your post when you take away the personal attacks, attempts to retake authority of expertise by bringing in your friend and DV shaming;
So your retort to the post is to ignore Antony?
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Okay understood, but they Neymar own was obvious why was she set free?
He can't.
Suspensions are governed by PL employment contracts. He can only be suspended if an internal investigation finds him likely to have breached the terms of his employment - the disrepute clause for instance, or if he's in violation of some other terms covered in it - criminal proceedings are covered I believe.
Either way he can't be suspended without an investigation. Doesn't matter what I think.
But United can suspend (or unofficially suspend) him, as we did with Greenwood, no?