Our final contract offer to Pogba was more than what Juve game him. He wanted to play cause he thought he was ready. In hindsight, he was right.
Anyone else feeling disconnected from this current Man United?
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
I didnt exactly get a daily call from fergie...
United has been a heartless corporate machine in a money centric sport for decades.
United has been a heartless corporate machine in a money centric sport for decades.
I am an outsider and not a fan but here is my two cents:
On the one hand, United needed to change quite a bit and make compromises with the current era of football. There is no use bemoaning the fact that the Fergie years couldn't be repeated because that was just never in the cards for all sorts of reasons.
On the other hand, United has now not just gotten up to speed in the current era of football but, in many ways, embraced to the max some of its most despicable figures. Aside from oligarch owners and kiddie rapists like Adam Johnson, are there three worse people in football than Mourinho, Raiola, and Mendes?
I think there was a middle ground that was attainable at the beginning and would have been preferable. Unfortunately, United got boxed into a corner through a series of mistakes and missteps, so that the logic of hiring Mourinho and drawing ever closer to Raiola and Mendes became hard to deny over time.
On the one hand, United needed to change quite a bit and make compromises with the current era of football. There is no use bemoaning the fact that the Fergie years couldn't be repeated because that was just never in the cards for all sorts of reasons.
On the other hand, United has now not just gotten up to speed in the current era of football but, in many ways, embraced to the max some of its most despicable figures. Aside from oligarch owners and kiddie rapists like Adam Johnson, are there three worse people in football than Mourinho, Raiola, and Mendes?
I think there was a middle ground that was attainable at the beginning and would have been preferable. Unfortunately, United got boxed into a corner through a series of mistakes and missteps, so that the logic of hiring Mourinho and drawing ever closer to Raiola and Mendes became hard to deny over time.
The squad barely changed under Moyes.
To be fair, I don't understand what "identity" you are referring to means.
Teams feeling like they were under siege when playing against us, the fear factor and most of all the winning is a normal thing mentality we had.
British talent can't even win against Iceland at the Euro's or get out the group stages at the WC.
I understand being idealistic but one of the main things about Man United is that we are giants in British footballing history, global footballing history really.
In the past we could have all these idealistic values & virtues because times were different then, the percentage of foreign players wasn't as high and we could still compete in the European cups while integrating the kids, the prices of players wasn't as crazy either.
While it would be nice to do that today, honestly in the short term it's just not possible.
We can't be Man United, be competitive across all competitions, be a dominant figure in world football, produce local home-grown talent and not spend ridiculous sums of money at the same time. It's just not possible.
You need a mixture to be successful in modern football.
Unless of course everyone is happy to continue to go through a period where we're not successful while our rivals pull away from us? But we can get back to the fundamentals and restructure the club from youth levels up until the first team?
Of course that will mean loss of sponsorships, decrease in revenue, lack of competitiveness & inability to attract star players in the transfer market.
I understand being idealistic but one of the main things about Man United is that we are giants in British footballing history, global footballing history really.
In the past we could have all these idealistic values & virtues because times were different then, the percentage of foreign players wasn't as high and we could still compete in the European cups while integrating the kids, the prices of players wasn't as crazy either.
While it would be nice to do that today, honestly in the short term it's just not possible.
We can't be Man United, be competitive across all competitions, be a dominant figure in world football, produce local home-grown talent and not spend ridiculous sums of money at the same time. It's just not possible.
You need a mixture to be successful in modern football.
Unless of course everyone is happy to continue to go through a period where we're not successful while our rivals pull away from us? But we can get back to the fundamentals and restructure the club from youth levels up until the first team?
Of course that will mean loss of sponsorships, decrease in revenue, lack of competitiveness & inability to attract star players in the transfer market.
I agree with the OP to some extent.
LvG did not leave us much of a choice but to fire him, but that we brought in Jose Mourinho really angers me. He really is quite the oposite of what Man Utd used to be. His high standing in the UK reflect how naive England as a footballnation is (sorry).
The appointment also prove that our club do not have a clear vision. We run from one style of football to another. In the long run it will hurt us:
- It takes time building a team playing as a unit.
- Its not healthy for the development of young players.
- Its expensive because we have to make significant changes to the squad. (Take Blind as an example, he is well suited for a defence with a high block, but might be useless for a low block defence.)
Furthermore we hired a manager who do not develop young players or a fluid attack. His biggest strength is his ability to find the best players and rubbing their agents back. When he has the best players he make them play a simple and destructive (but efficient) football that could remind you of an old italian team.
Does anyone really believe that Mourinho (or anyone in his team for that matter) will be able to offer as much to Pogba as Koeman (one of the best midfielders of his generation) will be able to offer Barkley? Pep Guardiola to Gundogan? Pochettino to Dier?
Mourinho dont care about player development. If he did he would hire someone who are good at it. He did not. Instead he will lend our talents out. We will not see young players making sudden impacts in his spell; no new Rashfords, CBJs or Mensahs under Mourinho. Neither will we see players developing like Ronaldo, Scholes or Giggs.
LvG did not leave us much of a choice but to fire him, but that we brought in Jose Mourinho really angers me. He really is quite the oposite of what Man Utd used to be. His high standing in the UK reflect how naive England as a footballnation is (sorry).
The appointment also prove that our club do not have a clear vision. We run from one style of football to another. In the long run it will hurt us:
- It takes time building a team playing as a unit.
- Its not healthy for the development of young players.
- Its expensive because we have to make significant changes to the squad. (Take Blind as an example, he is well suited for a defence with a high block, but might be useless for a low block defence.)
Furthermore we hired a manager who do not develop young players or a fluid attack. His biggest strength is his ability to find the best players and rubbing their agents back. When he has the best players he make them play a simple and destructive (but efficient) football that could remind you of an old italian team.
Does anyone really believe that Mourinho (or anyone in his team for that matter) will be able to offer as much to Pogba as Koeman (one of the best midfielders of his generation) will be able to offer Barkley? Pep Guardiola to Gundogan? Pochettino to Dier?
Mourinho dont care about player development. If he did he would hire someone who are good at it. He did not. Instead he will lend our talents out. We will not see young players making sudden impacts in his spell; no new Rashfords, CBJs or Mensahs under Mourinho. Neither will we see players developing like Ronaldo, Scholes or Giggs.
LvG had a terrible tenure, one in which we arguably played our worst football in 20+ years. Many still lament the club not acting sooner, which when all things considered, could've prevented us from being out of CL this upcoming season. Getting rid as swiftly as we did was the best course of action for all parties involved, LvG got to "retire" on a high and go enjoy his time-off without weeks of speculation, and fans got to look forward with renewed optimism.
Eh. give it time, our squad needed overhauling, and with 3 managerial changes the revolving door was inevitable. Mourinho will most likely be given time to succeed and if such happens we will have stability and likely "long standing players", we have some passionate players in the squad like Herrera for example, if his form picks up and he becomes a core member of the team, I can see him inspiring and instilling that fiery "we play for united" attitude in other players. We also have a bunch of young players so it takes time.
This is one of them "observation; clouds. conclusion; dinosaurs" moments. You're allowing yourself to feel bad about something mostly and largely because of assumptions. At least, give our manager the benefit of the doubt and give him a year or two. Then we can access how we are doing in regards to youth.
Why is it cheap to invest money obtained from success in order to guarantee future success? We are being competitive. We are one of the biggest clubs in the world. It could be argued that United is/was in free fall, and serious money would have to be spent to stop us haemorrhaging, and that is exactly what we have done/are doing. At some point, we will stop the big transfers as I don't really believe this model is sustainable, and I think our leadership knows that hence the young squad.
There is no lack of "United", the club is the same as its been, only, as expected, it has struggled with the departure of Sir Alex. I mean look at that paragraph, you mention lingard and other home grown players being slated as a downer as if that home grown qualification grants an exemption from criticism. I find mellow romanticism and lack of objectivity like that utterly dangerous and could do way more damage to the club than being led by Mourinho, who happens to be one of football's most successful managers.
"the youth is disappearing (only rumours)" says it all about this post really. get yourself together mate.
It's called nostalgia.
It's not just the club, some of our fans aren't any better either. The way Giggs gets abused sometimes you would think these are comments from rival clubs fans, not some United fans (not just on here but other places too)! Yes he'd his faults but who hasn't? How many of us are are leading a saintly life?
Forget about Giggs, the way SAF takes abuses and gets ridiculed on here (not even criticism) at every slightest opportunity by some of our so-called fans, had he seen some of these comments he would probably have regretted why he'd wasted so many hours, days, years of his life resurrecting the fortunes of this club - from on its knees to being the most successful in England and making it a finical monster in the process.
The handling of Moyes and LVG sackings especially the way they're leaked to press was extremely poor. No matter how miserably they failed, they didn't deserve the treatment.
I still don't feel the same as the likes of Rashford, TFM, Pereira, Wilson are still there. But if they get discarded without getting proper chances for a new shinny toy, it'd not be the same.
I never expected it to be any different if I'm being honest and this was of one of the main reasons why I's not a big fan of having Jose as our manager.
Academy youngsters excite fans, they also strengthen the bonds between the fans and the players. Unfortunately, Jose just doesn't get it!
I still don't get it why Lingard gets so much abuse on here. We're truly and utterly spoiled by SAF (and yet the man gets abused by the same fans)! Lingard is more than an able squad player. We can't have 24 WC players, no club has. I'd rather see 5/6 academy players in the squad than some average players singed from other clubs for top money.
I'd disagree on the outspending point though. For years we're outspend by our rivals and then we had to see SAF coming out with utter nonsense like there is no value in the market! The result being, we're left behind. Now we're playing catch-up. The landscape of football has changed since Ronaldo's transfer. It's a pity that it took us alomst 10 years to finally come to our senses!
I'd rather see the money being spent on players (and agents if needed be since they play a big role these days) than lining Glazers pockets! The club makes so much money by using our brand that it's a crime we didn't spend all these years. The likes of Ronaldindo, Sneijder, Hazard, Moura etc. weren't signed just for a few millions.
transition was always going to be rough after fergie. The way i see it is we have to spend here to get back in the fight city etc are pulling away squad wise and about jose he's one of us just give him time he'll prove it!
The op hates Jose, doesn't he? So this isn't surprising.
I don't know any Utd fan, myself included, who has been this excited about a season since Fergie left. It's an odd time to post that.
I don't know any Utd fan, myself included, who has been this excited about a season since Fergie left. It's an odd time to post that.
Its just a hangover from Fergie leaving. 3 years of hangover.
Also I didnt know Mourinho was one of our biggest enemies how you put it. Or you just dont like him.
United must go with a flow. And its a bit silly to talk about rumors about youth especially when Daily Mail runs the story.
Also I didnt know Mourinho was one of our biggest enemies how you put it. Or you just dont like him.
United must go with a flow. And its a bit silly to talk about rumors about youth especially when Daily Mail runs the story.
Yes. I enjoyed the last three years, especially the year under Moyes, but now I feel completely disconnected with United.
I don't feel disconnected from United, however I do feel disconnected from the new signings and especially Mourinho. I didn't want him, so obviously just by hiring him I am not all of a sudden going to feel attached to him.
When it comes to United I couldn't care less what Mourinho has done previously or what Pogba has achieved by playing alongside the likes of Pirlo, Vidal and a great and experienced defence.
The attachment will come only once they start delivering for United.
However it's not just the new signings, as I am also completely disconnected from Rooney or Fellaini.
But then Martial and Rashford have won me over in no time.
I need the season to start soon!
When it comes to United I couldn't care less what Mourinho has done previously or what Pogba has achieved by playing alongside the likes of Pirlo, Vidal and a great and experienced defence.
The attachment will come only once they start delivering for United.
However it's not just the new signings, as I am also completely disconnected from Rooney or Fellaini.
But then Martial and Rashford have won me over in no time.
I need the season to start soon!
Things change.
We needed to move with the times in order to stay in the conversation with the European heavyweights.
Buy the best and strengthen when you can.
We needed to move with the times in order to stay in the conversation with the European heavyweights.
Buy the best and strengthen when you can.
The only reason you're feeling disenfranchised is because we've been shit for 3 years. If Mourinho wins the league and develops a few kids into quality players we'll all be loving it.
Not every young player can be a top player. You'd think we'd've learnt after Pogba to put clauses in if we do let any kids go too...
Not every young player can be a top player. You'd think we'd've learnt after Pogba to put clauses in if we do let any kids go too...
Yes, I just dont like the majority of our players, horrendously overrated and overpaid even in the current market.
I think nowadays footballers are now boring in front of the camera. They don't show any emotion yet they are living the dream and will never have to have any financial problems. Just engage with the fans a bit more, when signing autographs, actually look like you give a shit.
Talk to the fans, make jokes e.t.c.
Talk to the fans, make jokes e.t.c.
Thanks for that, Gandalf. I don't usually quote whole posts but the above is worth repeating. The story mode helps put it all in perspective.
And there is hope, because I mean, for any Game of Thrones fans, if we cast Fergie as the King in the North and you can make the further link here, even Ramsay Bolton's temporary residence of Winterfell provided some drama and came to a fitting conclusion before normal order was resumed.
Now casting for Jon Snow...
As soon as SAF announced his retirement it's been like following a different club.
I felt disconnected too when we were getting outplayed by Stoke, getting knocked out of CL by PSV and Wolfsburg, bullied by West Ham away & consecutive 0:0 HT scorelines at home game after game. That's not the United I grew up watching.
Same. I felt disconnected watching us under Moyes and Van Gaal.
I know it sounds weird, but there were a few losses that just didn't bother me at all the past few years. Maybe it's me getting older, but I was just like "oh we lost, okay big whoop."
When we lost under Fergie, it actually hurt and the day felt worse every time. I want to get that feeling back.
I'm guessing you began supporting United when Fergie was already at the helm? It's true for the most of us, including me. But you have to understand that if you're supporting the club, and not the man (as unbelievably great as he was), you should learn to deal with different managers, different philosophies etc.
You can feel that we're abandoning our identity to stay at the top, but we have enough youth players to carry the banner atm. There isn't some ideal United manager just waiting for us to appoint him; Fergie's compatriot proved himself to be absolutely clueless; one of the most stubborn (and successful) managers of modern times failed too. We're we supposed to appoint Giggs, whose managerial credentials are non-existent?
It's likely that we'll never be as unique as we were in 195*, 1968 and 1999. But it doesn't mean that it's the different club - we were United even in between Basby and Ferguson.
The only thing that makes me literally sick is that we still have Fellaini in our squad. But every club, and we're not special, makes such mistakes
You can feel that we're abandoning our identity to stay at the top, but we have enough youth players to carry the banner atm. There isn't some ideal United manager just waiting for us to appoint him; Fergie's compatriot proved himself to be absolutely clueless; one of the most stubborn (and successful) managers of modern times failed too. We're we supposed to appoint Giggs, whose managerial credentials are non-existent?
It's likely that we'll never be as unique as we were in 195*, 1968 and 1999. But it doesn't mean that it's the different club - we were United even in between Basby and Ferguson.
The only thing that makes me literally sick is that we still have Fellaini in our squad. But every club, and we're not special, makes such mistakes
Exactly. More specifically, should we lose out on championships to Chelsea or City, the reaction will be that we've 'failed', and their unearned means of success will merit barely a mention...as per.
This. I have had the same feelings in the last couple of years, with Scholes, Giggs and Fergie retired it means that the last boyhood heroes that I grew up with are now gone.
I felt this way two years ago when we signed falcao and di maria. I just wasnt excited about them, as i got the impression they didnt really care if they came here or not.
This year Im admitedly gutted that Januzaj and Pereira appear to be out the door as theyre my two favourite players by a long shot. Nevertheless, I knew this might be happen and I trust Mourinho to get it right. Perhaps Im guilty of favouring certain players ahead of the team itself.
Nevertheless, Ive been a big fan of Zlatan for ages so he's a eelcome addition and Im sure this will feel like "my" team in time. In the meantime, Im embarassed to be as attached to two players as I am and will eventually get over it. Im far too old for this!
This year Im admitedly gutted that Januzaj and Pereira appear to be out the door as theyre my two favourite players by a long shot. Nevertheless, I knew this might be happen and I trust Mourinho to get it right. Perhaps Im guilty of favouring certain players ahead of the team itself.
Nevertheless, Ive been a big fan of Zlatan for ages so he's a eelcome addition and Im sure this will feel like "my" team in time. In the meantime, Im embarassed to be as attached to two players as I am and will eventually get over it. Im far too old for this!
The idea that Ferguson's model and modern football are incompatible is nonsense. What we are seeing now is nothing other than the price of Ferguson's retirement and failing to bring in a like-for-like successor. This has led to a lack of continuity and the rapid turnover of managers, staff and players. In turn this altered United's play style, success and very identity. Thus altogether the disconnect that many supporters feel with United. No it is not the United we knew, in particular it seems for supporters who grew up under Ferguson's earlier years. For that loss you have my sympathy, because I feel the same way.
Ideally in our current situation we will now see an attractive style of football, stability and success under Mourinho - I think that would eventually go a considerable way to restoring our old connection with United. Should we fail in that, I see no reason not to return to the old United way. The only problem being that with each passing season on this new path it becomes more difficult to re-install.
Not really. I felt out of it when I was worrying about how we'd do against West Brom and Swansea when Moyes was in charge, and I felt out of it when I was falling asleep during games and finding myself not caring when I completely missed them when van Gaal was in charge, but I'm back to being excited because it's all new again.
But this was always going to happen though, wasn't it? It's rare enough for a club to get a group of young players all make the first team at the same time, never mind have 3 of them spend their entire careers at the club and 5 of them hold positions in the back room team at one time or another. Whilst I still love the idea of having Giggs as manager, the only part of his CV that really qualifies him to be manager of Manchester United is that he's been at the club for a long time, which, to be fair, doesn't really cut it.
Then you're a clown. You can't judge a manager based on an extra-time cup win against a shit Crystal Palace side. He was judged over two league seasons and a CL campaign, and judged to have not done enough to keep his job. Given the football he had us playing was terrible and boring, results were generally poor, and his transfers were lacklustre at best, it's hardly a surprise that a cup win didn't save him.
This is just you being annoyed that your favourite players have gone. Our squad is full of players that "get" us. Just off the top of my head I can present you with De Gea, Smalling, Jones, Shaw, Young, Valencia, Herrera, Mata, Carrick, Blind, Rooney and even Fellaini that "get" us based off what they've done on the pitch and from what I've seen elsewhere.
Eh? You think Fergie was heading off to watch the Reserves when his first competitive game in charge is a couple of weeks away. This "Mourinho doesn't trust youth" thing is a load of nonsense. Particularly when we're literally in the midst of a transfer saga to sign a player that Fergie let leave for nothing, for a world record fee. I have full faith in Mourinho to give the best of our youth a chance, and I think him happily giving Fosu-Mensah, Lingard and Rashford proper squad numbers is a very good sign.
I hated him because he was a dickhead. Now I feel like I'm going to love him because he'll be our dickhead. One of the main reasons we loved Fergie so much was because everyone else hated him. Mourinho is going to be one of us whether he's here for 1 year or 10, because that's what he does wherever he goes.
For over two decades now we've tried to sign the best players available. We once made a habit of breaking transfer records, it's just that £40 million is the new £12 million so people are going nuts when we spent more than £30 million on a player. We've had over a decade of the Glazers sucking money out of the club, so if they want to splash £100 million that the club generated itself on a player, then I'm more than happy for them to go for it.
Before Lingard it was Cleverley. Before Cleverley it was Gibson. Before Gibson it was Fletcher. We always have a scapegoat, and we usually have a homegrown scapegoat to accompany them. We also spent quite a long time outspending our rivals before the sugardaddy era and Fergie deciding there was no value in the market post-Ronaldo.
You whinging? Possibly.
Yes.
I honestly felt more disconnected when Moyes and LVG were here. Mainly because of the vacuum that SAF's retirement had on my football supporting psyche. Van Gaal almost broke me with his pursuit of some of the most hideous football this club has ever played and I think that galvanizes my connection to this current era even more. Jose knows, he will provide and I think we'll see the real United and not Jose's United.
You sound like a typical glory fan in Spain supporting a once great English team to be honest.
You support your club through thick and thin. Through good football and bad football. Through academy players or £100m players.
The fact that the longest posts this summer has had are replies to Twig. Just great. Happy christmas y'all, can't wait until November. 
Pogba clearly does. Ibrahimovic and Mkhitaryan too. Mourinho is one of the most respected coaches in world football and was clearly pivotal in United making those signings and keeping De Gea at the club.
The point about Koeman/Barkley above is bizarre. Firstly, you don't have to be a great player to be a great coach and secondly Koeman was a centre back (not "one of the greatest midfielders of his generation") and Barkley an attacking midfielder.
Going back to the OP, it is a very different United now. The main thing United has lost since the Fergie era is the winning mentality. Mourinho is the perfect manager to get that back.
I have thought about this scenario and actually i wouldn't be against it. Really loved seeing Rashford, CBJ, Mensah, Lingard etc getting playing time last year and i was actually quite happy with LvG in that regard.
Tottenham in the last 2 years is a good model. Hiring a young manager with a modern view on football and who likes working with youngsters, at the same time buying cheap but smart. They have done well i think.
If the pressure wasn't big enough on Utd, it certainly is sky high now with the signings we are making and it all feels a bit rushed.
I'm still very excited about next season though, but i think the club have to be careful with not losing identity too much.
I don't feel any less or more connected. There were times I couldn't care less when we were winning, and times I was enthralled. There are times I couldn't care less when we're losing, and times it ruins my whole day. I fall in and out of interest with the team all the time, but honestly, it's just football and this is just one club like any other. It's not something I get overly emotional about.
Agree with a lot of sentiments here. Probably its because we haven't gotten over the SAF era but judging by most people's first XI selection we will have at most 3 English/British players as starters and 2/3 youth players in the squad. Slowly losing identity and it will be worse in the next 2 years
We are hardly going to produce any Club Legends anytime soon or players who will stay at the club for 8-10 yrs
Last edited:
If only it were that simple. Thing is, as soon as the pressure got to Tottenham they crumbled. They should've won the league and ended up 3rd. Plus they did it in a season in which Leicester won, and Chelsea & Everton barely finished in the top half of the table. It's hardly representative of a 'normal' league campaign.
We've got major sponsors & stakeholders to answer to, we're not one of the biggest clubs across all sports globally based on name alone, merit has to come into it. We've currently got the biggest kit deal, and dozens of other sponsorships that help generate our revenue. These are things which give us an advantage over a lot of other rivals and allow us to bid for star players.
If we're floundering in 5-8th while we experiment with youth players, not winning much if anything at all, not only will we start to lose sponsorships but we'll start being over taken by the likes of West Ham & Stoke. The gap is only going to widen and with the money that's in the PL now we can't afford to rest on our laurels.
In an ideal world, the likes of TFM, Rashford, CBJ etc would be integrated in our first team and we see what they do.
In a realistic world, we need to win a lot more than we recently have been doing, and youth players alone won't do that. We've seen how easy it is for the likes of Liverpool to lose pace with the front pack and how long it takes to get back to that level.
This place could barely cope with us finishing 5th and a FA Cup, plus there were talks of our Adidas deal being dependant on CL qualification in a number of years.
Football has changed. The PL has changed. The only thing we can do is adapt.
Not United specifically but more the game in general. It's simply become impossible for me to suspend my disbelief in such a spectacle.
All we have now is the biggest clubs and players bleeding the fans for every possible penny, trading all integrity for sponsorship cash and throwing that money around like it's nothing. Sure this isn't entirely new but the artifice is more exposed when we reach the current levels of opulence.
All moral judgements aside, it has simply become unenjoyable to follow. It's like when you put in the cheat code to a video game; great fun for a short while, before realising it was the challenges and uncertainties that made the journey interesting.
All we have now is the biggest clubs and players bleeding the fans for every possible penny, trading all integrity for sponsorship cash and throwing that money around like it's nothing. Sure this isn't entirely new but the artifice is more exposed when we reach the current levels of opulence.
All moral judgements aside, it has simply become unenjoyable to follow. It's like when you put in the cheat code to a video game; great fun for a short while, before realising it was the challenges and uncertainties that made the journey interesting.
Oh i get you mate, in the last 20 years we've had way more foreigners i agree. Times have changed and so has football.@stevoc
Lol. If you prefer, it is possible to have 11 foreign players in your starting 11 since the Bosman Judgment
Agreed. I just wished we would have used this current approach under Fergie when we we're actually on the top, it would have saved us a lot in the end and it would have felt more "real".
Even with all these new signings we still have a lot of issues with the squad.