Appointing Solskjaer was a mistake

[tony54]

Ed should bite the bullet and sack him now in order to save him the trouble of doing so in November. 6 defeats in 8 is unprecedented in it's awfulness. It's becoming increasingly clear that he hasn't got a clue how to turn the tide. United need a new manager and staff with a clear vision how to play progressive football.

A few months later and it's like Mourinho never left:

Still faffing about with the defense (is he really the man to shore up this defense?)
Still playing the same formation
Still willing to give the deadwood more chances
Still shunting Rashford to the wing
Still putting Matic straight back into the team
Still calling out the players in the press
Still talking about the past
Still negative

At least Mourinho would have had them fired up to come back from a losing position once in a while.

I think its the players mentality not being to work as a team. There is no heart or soul in the team. Too many cast offs from other teams and useless greedy owners and rubbish ceo.
Its not the managers at all.
The only way to stop the rot is to down tools and stop paying to see this malaise and when the glaziers see a negative profit margin they will sell up quick before losing too much.

 

[JohnnyKills]

That’s right because we have total influence over Ed’s decisions

Doubt the board would have been so hasty without all the fan hysteria.

 

[B20]

How do you explain that? The same squad is capable of beating the best but can't beat Everton?

Mourinho explained it by calling the 2nd place finish one of his greatest ever achievements.

 

[Skolden]

Yes we should have clearly appointed Poch who is 3p ahead of us and have won nothing with players like Kane, Eriksen, Alderweireld, Lloris etc.

Give Ole a chance to get the right players in.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Next month would've been the last few fixtures of Moyes' year contract. Scary to think about that.

When you think about, 6th then, 6th, now, would he have been any worse? Pointless CL runs, we're still as shit as we were back then.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Appointing him at that time was a mistake for sure. He can still turn this around by doing what is necessary, which is basically getting rid of most of the squad and starting fresh. I think most fans will accept a bad season next year as long as he does that in the summer. Does he have the balls to do that? I dont think so.

He'll do exactly what the past managers have done, keep these players around, who inevitably will get him sacked.

I don’t think it all comes down to the managers having the balls to do it here, the glazers, Woodward and board don’t have the ability or will to do it.
We’ve been awful in transfer dealings with these in charge.
We needed to sign a proper midfielder or two to replace scholes, Keane for a decade. We’ve needed a proper right winger/7 for 10 years too. And we don’t know how to move dead wood on.
The glazers have turned us into a shell of a club.

 

[golden_blunder]

Doubt the board would have been so hasty without all the fan hysteria.

Perhaps but I doubt ed sits and reads Redcafe!

 

[Un4givableB]

The same squad finished 2nd in the EPL last season.

That's what you call an inconvenient truth, the same players got Ole the job with the 11 game run.

 

[Livvie]

Sack him before he's had the opportunity to create his own team?

He needs to get ruthless and maybe wake up to the fact that there are times when you can't be loyal to players because they just don't respond to it.

 

[Raoul]

When you think about, 6th then, 6th, now, would he have been any worse? Pointless CL runs, we're still as shit as we were back then.

I doubt we would've won anything under Moyes.

 

[0le]

Ed should bite the bullet and sack him now in order to save him the trouble of doing so in November. 6 defeats in 8 is unprecedented in it's awfulness. It's becoming increasingly clear that he hasn't got a clue how to turn the tide. United need a new manager and staff with a clear vision how to play progressive football.

A few months later and it's like Mourinho never left:

Still faffing about with the defense (is he really the man to shore up this defense?)
Still playing the same formation
Still willing to give the deadwood more chances
Still shunting Rashford to the wing
Still putting Matic straight back into the team
Still calling out the players in the press
Still talking about the past
Still negative

At least Mourinho would have had them fired up to come back from a losing position once in a while.

Still faffing about with the defense (is he really the man to shore up this defense?)

We've had injuries so its perfectly reasonable to have to juggle around the defence. The mistake today was to put Lindelof as a RB which led to two players playing positions they have rarely played before at United. However, he only needed to play one player out of position, i.e. he could have played a Dalot at right back and simply played a CB at left back.

Still playing the same formation

So you are moaning he is faffing about with the defence. They you moan that he isn't faffing about with the formation?

Still willing to give the deadwood more chances

I agree Young and Matic have received too many chances. Rojo and Darmian are definitely off, and also probably Bailly. However, he can't get rid of the entire team in one go.

Still shunting Rashford to the wing

We only have Lingard to play there and he has been worse than Rashford. Not many alternatives.

Still calling out the players in the press

He has only done this very recently. Why is it acceptable for you to call out players but the manager can't? Has he even said anything about an individual player in particular? I think he has tried to keep the criticism about the team rather than individuals which is perfectly reasonable.

Still talking about the past

It is probably more likely he is being asked questions which lead to these answers. This was certainly true for the Barcelona fixtures.

Still negative

I think you are mistaking negative play with just simply bad performances. He certainly wasn't negative for his first ten or so games.

At least Mourinho would have had them fired up to come back from a losing position once in a while

You've just rewritten history there. Mourinho was awful and simply had to go. Just because you feel Ole isn't the right choice does not make the decision to remove Mourinho incorrect.

 

[Mcking]

Oh boy here we go blaming the managers again. There’s only 1 common factor among the last few managers we had and it’s the players.

Another common factor is that they are all managers that underperformed and weren't up to the task. Maybe we should have kept Moyes?

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Sack him before he's had the opportunity to create his own team?

He needs to get ruthless and maybe wake up to the fact that there are times when you can't be loyal to players because they just don't respond to it.

Honestly, why should he be given the chance to create his own team?

 

[B20]

The Woodward way would be to not really back solskjaer over the summer due to misgivings about his long-term prospects, then when the season is a wash due to the manager not being properly supported, sack him, promise a DOF and find a new manager with a totally different style and tactical approach.

 

[the hea]

We were doing fine at the start of the year when Ole took over and the players could be arsed. The problem isn't the manager it's the spineless primadonnas out on the field who can't be arsed half of the time. There is something rotten in this squad and until we get rid of the players who are behind it nothing will change.

 

[Livvie]

Honestly, why should he be given the chance to create his own team?

Because it's unfair not to? Because he gave us the best three months we've had since Fergie left?

 

[caid]

Dont see it helping tbh. I'd be more inclined to agree if Phelan and McKenna weren't there but between them two he has the basis for a solid management team imo. I'd change literally everything else before the manager

 

[Dec9003]

Ole will be blamed for not being able to get consistent performances out of inconsistent, uncommited, not good enough players.
Sack Ole and get say Poch for example (like he'd join after we sack a manager for losing a few games) and the results won't change.
We need a big clear out in the summer, and some talented, modern footballers to be brought in.
I don't think we will get that unfortunately.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

The same squad finished 2nd in the EPL last season.

That squad had Blind, Fellaini, Carrick and a Young and Valencia living ng out their last bits of usefulness.

Then Woodward thought it marvelous to not invest significantly in the playing staff whilst every top 7 challenger bar Spurs did

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

The main think is that if the contract wasn’t signed yet, he wouldn’t have been offered it.
4-0 away to Everton is worse than the lowest point under Moyes and is the worst result post SAF.

I reckon the entire team needs to be sold before than manager.
I’m behind Ole but this is horrible.

 

[logan99]

There are not enough players to develop the idea that Ole wants. We do not even have a leader or real captain in the field! You can bring Zidane, Guardiola or even Sir Alex and they can not do much with current players. The first thing we need is a Sports Director and 4 new players this transfer window.

It is still too early to consider Ole's process as a failure.

 

[Freak]

2nd place in the league and F.A Cup Finalist, yes Fecking useless.

Jose did say that was his biggest achievement. Puts things into perspective and can you actually say he’s wrong now?

 

[Cantoboxer]

We've had injuries so its perfectly reasonable to have to juggle around the defence. The mistake today was to put Lindelof as a RB which led to two players playing positions they have rarely played before at United. However, he only needed to play one player out of position, i.e. he could have played a Dalot at right back and simply played a CB at left back.



So you are moaning he is faffing about with the defence. They you moan that he isn't faffing about with the formation?



I agree Young and Matic have received too many chances. Rojo and Darmian are definitely off, and also probably Bailly. However, he can't get rid of the entire team in one go.



We only have Lingard to play there and he has been worse than Rashford. Not many alternatives.




He has only done this very recently. Why is it acceptable for you to call out players but the manager can't? Has he even said anything about an individual player in particular? I think he has tried to keep the criticism about the team rather than individuals which is perfectly reasonable.


It is probably more likely he is being asked questions which lead to these answers. This was certainly true for the Barcelona fixtures.



I think you are mistaking negative play with just simply bad performances. He certainly wasn't negative for his first ten or so games.



You've just rewritten history there. Mourinho was awful and simply had to go. Just because you feel Ole isn't the right choice does not make the decision to remove Mourinho incorrect.

Agree with everything you said.

 

[Moriarty]

Doubt the board would have been so hasty without all the fan hysteria.

Good point, and it illustrates how reactionary they are. It seems like they didn't sound out any other potential candidates for the job. I have no idea if they spoke to Poch's people or anyone else's people for that matter but they had a great opportunity to do so and get things in place for summer. I can't imagine nobody was interested in the job.

 

[anant]

On what basis can anyone say it was a mistake?

Lets assume a hypothetical scenario, where we haven't announced OGS as our permanent manager. End of year meeting to decide who our permanent manager should be. OGS is obviously in the running and his record as our manager is pulled up.

PL:
3rd in the table since he came in. 2 points behind Pool and 1 behind City (who have played a game less), who arguably among top 3 sides in Europe right now in terms of talent and depth

FA Cup:
QF and we beat Arsenal away and Chelsea at the Bridge after 8(?) years, results that we weren't expecting to be honest.

CL:
When the draw came out in December, Jose was our manager and PSG was given a walkover as per most experts. We were the the team everyone wanted to play against, some favoured us over the likes of Schalke, Roma, Porto and Ajax as well. What followed vs PSG is the stuff people will talk for years to come. No one can say we weren't deserving, PSG simply didn't have a lot of shots over the 2 legs- it wasn't that we progressed due to a Dave masterclass, but because of grit and determination- something we haven't seen very often from a Manchester United side in post-SAF era. Add to that we had a considerable number of injuries as well in the 2nd leg.

Then there will be concerns thrown about whether we've been lucky.
But have we? We won a couple of games where we were lucky like the one vs Watford, WHU and Spurs, but then we lost vs Arsenal, Wolves and drew Burnley as well. Hell, if we compare our performances vs xG and xGA, we've scored roughly same number of goals as expected from the shots we've taken (actually we've scored slightly less (0.98 goals less)) and conceded around 2 goals less than we should have.

Then we come to the performances in raw numbers: As per xG stats, we should have scored 34.98 goals in these 17 games which translates to 78 goals in a 38 game season. Our xG last season was 58, 57 in Mou's 1st season, 45 in LVG's philosophy season and 54 in LVG's 1st season. It would have translated to 63 goals had Mou remained our manager.

The 2nd question would be how does this compare with other sides:
Spurs in 34 games this season have xG of 57.79, which translates to a 64 goal season, Pool have 70.26 which translates to 78.5 goal season (same as ours), City is the only team which has xG better than ours!

The decision will be unanimous. To hire OGS as our full time manager. It would be stupid not to because if the manager they hire instead of OGS doesnt work out, the board will come under incredible pressure.

Look, I'm not one of those who'll go on preaching to back the manager. Hell, I wanted Poch as our manager but one needs to acknowledge that we've come a long way since Jose's sacking and in the right direction. We have a positive game plan going into every game and while it will take time and players of different ilk to take it to perfection, it's a big step in helping us reach our goals. Atleast, give him a pre-season and a transfer window before dismissing him as yet another failed manager signing

 

[Mcking]

We were doing fine at the start of the year when Ole took over and the players could be arsed. The problem isn't the manager it's the spineless primadonnas out on the field who can't be arsed half of the time. There is something rotten in this squad and until we get rid of the players who are behind it nothing will change.

We could also do with a manager that isn't out of his depth.

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

No it wasn't a mistake; our problems go way beyond the manager. Unless we get leadership and enthusiasm from the owners and boardroom, we will never be successful. Ole needs supporting by everyone - board and fans - and we need to address the structural problems at the heart of the club.

 

[Livvie]

We were doing fine at the start of the year when Ole took over and the players could be arsed. The problem isn't the manager it's the spineless primadonnas out on the field who can't be arsed half of the time. There is something rotten in this squad and until we get rid of the players who are behind it nothing will change.

Pogba plays for the team...team Pogba that is. He's selfish, lazy and arrogant. I don't care how brilliant he can be - he appears incapable of inspiring the players around him and ambles round the pitch with zero urgency.

Matic is totally ineffective. He and Herrera were great for a while but there have been more games when they weren't either individually or together.

People are quick to say Mata should go, but he puts more effort in than either of those. What he lacks in speed he makes up for with some intelligent creativity - deserves a few games in the No10 spot, and if that fails, well so be it. He hasn't always had good games, but has he ever put in a can't be arsed performance like Pogba does nine times out of ten?

 

[ZupZup]

I have no issue with us appointing Ole... it’s not like we are blessed with amazing alternative options. Why would Poch leave Spurs to manage us? He has every chance of taking them to a Champions League final and they have a brand new stadium.

The reality is that our squad is not very good. I look at Everton and at least half of their team would start if I was picking a combined 11 from the two sides that played today... especially every single one of their back four. That’s not a reactionary hindsight call either. I messaged a mate to say exactly that before kick off. We’re trading off our name still but most of the players we have are far from United quality.

 

[Rob]

More than anything you need a DOF who can set a general direction for the club, the way it’s supposed to play and identify and sign players/manager that fit. It is a bit of a scattergun approach to go from Moyes to Van Gaal to Mourinho to a complete novice like Ole.

That guy should’ve been appointed before Ole.

 

[Offside]

Don’t think it’s got anything to do with the manager. It’s the recruitment over the years. Woodward is the common denominator over these past few years. Get rid of him and all the players.

 

[dove]

It probably was, some people won't admit it though as he is a club legend.

 

[bosnian_red]

Nope. Not having that. Give him time to turn the squad over. Sacking Mourinho was the right choice, but that didnt mean that the squad also didnt need a turnover. Just that Mourinho wasnt the guy to do it. Solskjaer will at the very least look to build a side based on quality and pace and the required attitude. Obviously there are question marks, but regardless of anything we need to change the attitude in the club. Get rid of loads of them, cut all the massive wages, start over with the attitude that players wont come here for a paycheck. Its embarassing what we've become and how you just know that people come to United to earn loads and dont give a feck about actually winning.

 

[Ranchero]

Only the timing was.

 

[Blueman]

I think Ole will step down at the end of the season if results don’t improve and a decent replacement can be found. Seems to me like someone who would have the clubs best interests at heart.

thats what I believe too. It has the feeling of Scholes at Oldham. I dont believe its the players though, that is just kneejerk against Ole not succeeding. Someone needs to kick them into action, Ole cant he's too nice, someone like Simeone could whilst bringing in new talent to replace old.

The alternative is season of Ole with his new players he brings in, then new manager who will want his new players, then bedding in all of those players, probs 3 or 4 seasons.

In my blue opinion

 

[NinjaZombie]

It's the players.

 

[Mcking]

That squad had Blind, Fellaini, Carrick and a Young and Valencia living ng out their last bits of usefulness.

Then Woodward thought it marvelous to not invest significantly in the playing staff whilst every top 7 challenger bar Spurs did

That is no excuse for losing 6 in 8 and getting consistently outplayed by every other team. Obviously last season's team was not the best ever runners-up, but the players showed what they can do as they did in our winning run not so long ago.

 

[beer&grill]

Sorry but what does recommend OGS to have the opportunity to rebuid the team. I agree that the players are not great and there aren’t many managers that could get more out of them, but why is OGS the right one for the future? I can’t understand where this blind faith comes from.

Also “he knows the United way” is a nonsense cliche, it was SAF’s way of dealing with things and it can’t be replicated by anyone. I think OGS or the next manager should focus on their own strategy and stop looking for SAF’s blueprint.

 

[Offside]

I don’t think the problems currently come from the manager. But I can’t understand why we didn’t wait until the end of the season to make the decision? Players have eased off since he got the job.

 

[Berba's_Flick]

I said this when Mourinho was at the club. It’s not the manager. Our recruitment is the culprit. Most of our players don’t have the right mentality nor the correct attitude. I was Shat upon for saying this then. For all the talent they have, and they have bundles of it, they will never be at the levels of what a united players should look like. I said it before and I say it again, unless our board grows a pair nothing will change. Sacking the manager will not achieve anything.

 

[redcafe_reader]

Let's say we don't appoint Ole, wait until the end of the season and appoint Pochettino. What happens then?

Our current players (because no way Pochettino can replace that many in 1 summer) will down tool again because that's their level and for all their talk in social media, none of them have the will to work hard. We will have a bad run and player will hide behind the manager again and say (via their friend in media) how they wish they still have Ole. All our legend (Neville and Scholes) will talk about "United way" again and how legendary that "Ole run" was and how only Ole can understand United etc. Do you guy think Pochettino or any other manager can succeed in that situation? Also, Pochettino has a pretty talented but level head team, what can he do with our overpaid high ego player? Klopp and Pep both expects his team to have great technique (especially Pep) and able to follow their instruction, and also working super hard, do you think they can succeed with us or there will be talking about how they don't understand "United way"?

At least with Ole as our manager, our players can't hide, our "legend" will shut up and let him work in peace (or they will turn to attack the owner, which is a good thing). So the best case is Ole prove himself as a good manager and lead us out of this slump, the worst case is we sack him (after he cleared out some) and the next manager will have the freedom to clear out some more, just like how Mourinho was able to clear Rooney out after he failed with LVG without any troubles.

In my opinion, it's quite clear that there are a lot of people inside our club act without United's interest, include all our board and most of the player (even our "local lad") so without a dump to the bottom (like we are at the moment) to expose them, we won't rise again (sorry for the dramatic). Ole is one of the very very very few people (beside SAF, Cantona, Rio, Beckham..) that I think actually loves United, so I will trust him.

Personally, I think we were too quick to sack LVG - his style was boring but it still was an actual style, he used youth (with a proven track record) and Rashford was progressing well under him, again too quick to sack Mourinho - he finished 2nd with this team, should back him more and support him instead of the player, if he want Perisic instead of Martial that's his right, if he wants to replace Pogba that's also his right, there is no way we can succeed with Mourinho without completely backing him. We should not repeat that mistake with Ole and let him build the team as he sees fit.