Archie Battersbee: RIP

[esmufc07]

Just a heartbreaking case.

Archie Battersbee: Family of boy ruled dead seeks appeal https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-61862714

 

[The Corinthian]

I was reading he ended up hanging himself due to some TikTok trend that went badly wrong, which just seems mental. Kids need to be off social media, or it needs to be monitored much more closely.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

I was reading he ended up hanging himself due to some TikTok trend that went badly wrong, which just seems mental. Kids need to be off social media, or it needs to be monitored much more closely.

Reason why the boards of these apps don't allow their kids on them.

 

[The Corinthian]

Reason why the boards of these apps don't allow their kids on them.

What do you mean?

 

[Frosty]

I was reading he ended up hanging himself due to some TikTok trend that went badly wrong, which just seems mental. Kids need to be off social media, or it needs to be monitored much more closely.

Nadine Dorries is on the case and suggesting changes and legislation, which I think means children are fecked.

On the legal point - the family will need to show the trial judge made a mistake in interpreting the medical evidence, which is a very high burden to cross.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Reason why the boards of these apps don't allow their kids on them.

Have you got evidence for this stat?

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Have you got evidence for this stat?

Lot's of comments such as the below

A month later, Parker was joined by another Facebook objector, former vice-president for user growth Chamath Palihapitiya. “The short-term, dopamine-driven feedback loops that we have created are destroying how society works. No civil discourse, no cooperation; misinformation, mistruth,” Palihapitiya said at a conference in Stanford, California. “This is not about Russian ads. This is a global problem. It is eroding the core foundations of how people behave by and between each other. I can control my decision, which is that I don’t use that shit. I can control my kids’ decisions, which is that they’re not allowed to use that shit.”

“Many tech titans are very, very careful about how they privately use tech and how they allow their kids to use it and the extent to which they allow their kids access to screens and various apps and programs,” says Alter. “They will get up on stage, some of them, and say things like: ‘This is the greatest product of all time,’ but then when you delve you see they don’t allow their kids access to that same product.”

This kind of behaviour is becoming increasingly common as many of the tech world's leading lights, whose products have been used by millions of children the world over, are now intent on curbing their own offspring's screen time. Not content with banning their children's devices, they are now legally stipulating that staff do the same. A report last weekend documented the rise in nanny contracts requiring that Silicon Valley sprogs not only be kept away from their own screens, but that those tasked with looking after them don't use their phones in front of the children, either.

 

[Denis79]

 

[esmufc07]

Nadine Dorries is on the case and suggesting changes and legislation, which I think means children are fecked.

On the legal point - the family will need to show the trial judge made a mistake in interpreting the medical evidence, which is a very high burden to cross.

They’ve been granted the right to appeal.

 

[Frosty]

They’ve been granted the right to appeal.

You can be granted a right to appeal on two grounds - first, that there is a real prospect of success, and second where there is a compelling issue in the case. The Court of Appeal sets precedents whereas the High Court does not - the nature of the case may be such that an appellate judgment is needed to lay down guidelines for future cases.

 

[100]

Online trend/tiktoks get mentioned a lot in cases now but there's never anything concrete to point to. This one has been quite vague too.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

It's a horrible situation for any parent, and I can't even begin to think how I'd act. I know I could say I would accept the science but when your child's life in on the line the entire thing becomes muddy. I'm not sure that some of the family's comments about how the hospital are sentencing lots of kids to death is acceptable but, again, feck knows how any of us would deal with it all.

 

[Drainy]

They’ve been granted the right to appeal.

Normally the poster would be correct, but with serious medical treatment cases the courts are a lot more likely to allow an appeal, for good reasons..

 

[Withnail]

It's very sad and I'd never want to be in that position. If it was someone close to me I'd obviously want every effort made to save them but I can't say I'd want them hooked up to a machine indefinitely if they no longer had any brain activity.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Online trend/tiktoks get mentioned a lot in cases now but there's never anything concrete to point to. This one has been quite vague too.

I know nothing of the case but if you want to sensationalise something and get web clicks. Call it a <insert social media name> trend.

 

[esmufc07]

Family of Archie Battersbee given right to appeal life support decision https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-61869995

 

[esmufc07]

Archie Battersbee parents win appeal to reconsider case https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-61980761

 

[Frosty]

Court rules Archie Battersbee life-support can end

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62175556

Life-support treatment for 12-year-old Archie Battersbee can end, a judge has ruled.

Archie was found unconscious at home in Southend, Essex, on 7 April.

Doctors at the Royal London Hospital said he was "brain stem dead" and it was in his best interests to stop treatment, but his parents disagreed.

A different judge previously agreed with doctors and today Mr Justice Hayden also ruled in favour of the hospital.

He heard the case again in the High Court on Monday after the family went to the Court of Appeal, which ruled a new hearing was necessary.
Mr Justice Hayden said continuing treatment was "futile".

"It serves only to protract his death, whilst being unable to prolong his life," he said.

 

[Wibble]

I was reading he ended up hanging himself due to some TikTok trend that went badly wrong, which just seems mental. Kids need to be off social media, or it needs to be monitored much more closely.

I have also read that this was just his mother's take to avoid the more likely conclusion that he killed himself. The suggested trigger is that he was a troubled kid with fairly extreme ADHD who put a pet rabbit in a washbag, got a severe telling off and then hung himself.

Obviously I have no idea of the truth.

 

[Big Andy]

As sad as it is, it's probably for the best. I'm sure if it was one of my kids though, I'd be fighting tooth and nail regardless of the expected outcome.

 

[Wibble]

I'm sure if it was one of my kids though, I'd be fighting tooth and nail regardless of the expected outcome.

I wouldn't. The poor kid died months ago.

 

[SilentWitness]

I can't judge the family as grief is incredibly hard to deal with, especially in the case where it is your own child who is so young but it's the right decision to let him pass.

 

[Carl]

Had no idea he was doing a social media challenge to end up like this. That's so desperately sad.

 

[Damien]

Had no idea he was doing a social media challenge to end up like this. That's so desperately sad.

It is what was said originally but there's never been any concrete evidence that such a trend ever existed.

Sad but the right decision. Knew the Judge's name sounded familiar - he ruled on the Alfie Evans case back in 2018.

 

[matherto]

I always think the parents shouldn't have a say in things like this, they're too close to it so naturally they're going to fight tooth and nail against the evidence.

I don't think that would go down very well though.

I was reading he ended up hanging himself due to some TikTok trend that went badly wrong, which just seems mental. Kids need to be off social media, or it needs to be monitored much more closely.

Just ban social media. Sorted.

 

[adexkola]

I can't judge the family as grief is incredibly hard to deal with, especially in the case where it is your own child who is so young but it's the right decision to let him pass.

Agree with all of this.

 

[Frosty]

Archie Battersbee's family granted more time to appeal against ruling

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62325930

Doctors treating Archie at the Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel, east London, think he is brain-stem dead and say continued life-support treatment is not in his best interests.

On Monday Court of Appeal judges Sir Andrew McFarlane, Lady Justice King and Lord Justice Peter Jackson refused to overturn the last High Court judgement which ruled treatment could end.

Lawyers for the family had asked for the ruling to be postponed after Mr Battersbee became ill outside court prior to the hearing.

He was taken to hospital but has since been released.

Ms Dance also wanted judges to adjourn their ruling on the basis that she had "video evidence" that indicated Archie, who is attached to a ventilator, had twice tried to breathe for himself on Friday and Saturday.

The family had been given until 14:00 BST on Wednesday to make an appeal to the European Court but have now been granted an additional 24 hours by appeal judges.

In a statement Ms Dance said: "All we have asked for from the beginning is for Archie to be given more time and for Archie's wishes and ours to be respected. As long as Archie is alive, I will never give up on him, he is too good to give up on.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Absolutely heart breaking for the wee boy and his family. Still don't know what I'd do in that situation.

Completely off topic but also on topic. It's been bugging me why I've heard the mum and kid's name before. Something in the back of my mind from yesteryear but a quick Google search of the name brought this article about a kid using ear drops in their eyes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...ts-pharmacy-gave-ear-drops-eye-infection.html

 

[Frosty]

UN request for Archie Battersbee life-support to continue

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62346356

The United Nations has requested that Archie Battersbee's life-support continues while it considers a "last ditch" application from his family.

The 12-year-old was found unconscious at home in Southend, Essex, on 7 April.

On Monday, Appeal Court judges ruled that doctors could lawfully disconnect his ventilator.

His parents made an application to the UN Committee on the Rights of Persons With Disabilities (UNRPD) after their UK legal challenge failed.
Archie has never regained consciousness and his mother believes he may have been taking place in an online challenge.

Archie's parents, Hollie Dance and Paul Battersbee, wanted the UNRPD to consider Archie's case, and argued it had a protocol that allowed individuals and families to "make complaints about violations of disabled people's rights".

As the UK had joined the optional protocol to the Convention on the rights of persons with disabilities, the UN was able to ask the government to delay the withdrawal of life support while a complaint is investigated, Christian Concern said.

In a letter, the chief of the UN's Human Rights Treaties Branch, Ibrahim Salama, said it had "requested the state party (the government) to refrain from withdrawing life-preserving medical treatment, including mechanical ventilation and artificial nutrition and hydration, from the alleged victim while the case is under consideration by the committee".

A spokesman for the Christian Legal Centre, which supports the family, said Archie's parents contacted the UNRPD in a "last-ditch" application after the UK's Supreme Court refused to intervene.

The Supreme Court rejected an application to appeal a ruling by the Court of Appeal that it was lawful for treatment to end.

"This request does not imply that any decision has been reached on the substance of the matter under consideration," Mr Salama said.

 

[Jippy]

Absolutely heart breaking for the wee boy and his family. Still don't know what I'd do in that situation.

Completely off topic but also on topic. It's been bugging me why I've heard the mum and kid's name before. Something in the back of my mind from yesteryear but a quick Google search of the name brought this article about a kid using ear drops in their eyes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...ts-pharmacy-gave-ear-drops-eye-infection.html

His mum looked like Daniella Westbrook back in the day.

 

[Frosty]

Archie Battersbee: Last-minute hearing over treatment

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62373605

Lawyers for the family of Archie Battersbee have told a court that not postponing the withdrawal of life support would breach international law.

The Court of Appeal is holding a hearing, hours before doctors had been due to withdraw life support at 14:00 BST.

The government asked judges to consider a request from a United Nations committee to keep treating the 12-year-old while it examines the case.
A decision will be given after 15:00.

Archie's mother, Hollie Dance, said she wanted a "realistic time" for her child to recover.

Her son was found unconscious at home in Southend, Essex, on 7 April. He has never regained consciousness and Ms Dance said she believed he might have been taking part in an online challenge.

Archie, who is at Royal London Hospital in east London, was due to have his life support stopped on Monday afternoon.

Lawyers for the family said failure to postpone withdrawal of treatment would mean the court was "complicit" in a "flagrant breach of international law".
Doctors have said that he is brain-stem dead and that it is in his best interests to stop treatment.

 

[11101]

Absolutely heart breaking for the wee boy and his family. Still don't know what I'd do in that situation.

Completely off topic but also on topic. It's been bugging me why I've heard the mum and kid's name before. Something in the back of my mind from yesteryear but a quick Google search of the name brought this article about a kid using ear drops in their eyes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...ts-pharmacy-gave-ear-drops-eye-infection.html

So she's a bit of an idiot then? I wouldn't give my kids anything without checking the instructions first.

 

[Frosty]

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[Red_toad]

Absolutely heart breaking for the wee boy and his family. Still don't know what I'd do in that situation.

Completely off topic but also on topic. It's been bugging me why I've heard the mum and kid's name before. Something in the back of my mind from yesteryear but a quick Google search of the name brought this article about a kid using ear drops in their eyes.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...ts-pharmacy-gave-ear-drops-eye-infection.html

To be honest if he somehow performed a miracle and returned to some form of consciousness he'd have some pretty horrific issues to endure for the rest of his life.

 

[Frosty]

From my count this case has involved two High Court hearings, two Court of Appeal hearings, a Supreme Court hearing on permission to appeal and now is under consideration with the UN.

As tragic as the circumstances are, English courts generally will defer to the medical judgment of what is in the patient's best interests.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

So she's a bit of an idiot then? I wouldn't give my kids anything without checking the instructions first.

I remember at the time thinking "fair enough, daft but mistakes can happen" but what surprised me was the blame game placed on the pharmacy without a hint of responsibility taken by the parents.

To be honest if he somehow performed a miracle and returned to some form of consciousness he'd have some pretty horrific issues to endure for the rest of his life.

I know, and that's the logical way to think about it. It's what I would accept as the reality as well right now. But in that situation I don't think I'd be able to make a decision like that. Every ounce of you wants to protect your child and that can fog up your mind. It's far from rational, and that's why these decisions shouldn't be left to the parents - even if that parent was a medical professional like the doctors and nurses caring for your kid.

 

[Frosty]

Archie Battersbee: Family appeals to Supreme Court over life-support withdrawal

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62389726

Archie Battersbee's parents have lodged an appeal with the Supreme Court - on the day his life-support was due to be withdrawn.

On Monday, Court of Appeal judges ruled that the 12-year-old's life-sustaining treatment should not continue beyond 12:00 BST on Tuesday.

His parents have lodged an application to appeal the decision with the Supreme Court.

In a statement, a spokeswoman for the Supreme Court said: "They [Archie's parents] are seeking a stay of the Court of Appeal's decision to allow withdrawal of life-support treatment from their child."

She said this was to allow more time for the United Nations Commission for the Rights of People of Disability to consider its complaint that withdrawal of life-sustaining treatment was a "breach of the convention".

"The Supreme Court is aware of the urgency of this matter," she said, adding that a panel of three justices would consider the application.

 

[Frosty]

Archie Battersbee: how third parties can further complicate tragic life support cases

https://www.theguardian.com/society...or-independent-mediation-in-cases-of-children

Archie Battersbee joins a list of tragic cases of children in which the courts have been called to take the grave decision on whether life support treatment should be withdrawn.

Having a child suffer an injury that leaves them attached to a machine and a shadow of the lively child they were previously is every parent’s worst nightmare. As a result, cases such as Charlie Gard, Alfie Evans, Isaiah Haastrup, Tafida Raqeeb and Alta Fixler have struck a chord with the public.

Tafida’s was the only one with a seemingly happy ending. A judge disagreed with doctors at the Royal London hospital and allowed the brain-damaged girl – unlike Archie she was not deemed to be brain-stem dead – to travel to Italy for treatment, where she recovered sufficiently to be removed from intensive care.

In Charlie’s case, the US pastor Rev Patrick Mahoney, a fervent anti-abortion campaigner and former national spokesperson for Operation Rescue, an anti-abortion group with links to violence at clinics and against abortion providers, flew to London to act as self-appointed spokesperson for the parents.

Archie’s parents have been supported by the Christian Legal Centre, who were also involved in Alfie’s case, in which Mr Justice Hayden described Pavel Stroilov, the centre law student representing Alfie’s parents, as a “fanatical and deluded young man” whose submissions to the court were “littered with vituperation and bile” that was “inconsistent with the real interests of the parents’ case”.

Stroilov was behind the attempt by Alfie’s parents to pursue a private prosecution for murder against three Alder Hey doctors. Archie’s mother has referred to the withdrawal of life support as a “choreographed execution”. Bruno Quintavalle, a barrister who has been involved in Alfie’s and Archie’s cases, was a leader of anti-abortion group ProLife Alliance and previously brought a case in his own name challenging cell cloning.

The involvement of such third-party ideologues presents a significant obstacle to the laudable aim of resolving such sensitive cases in a less adversarial manner.

 

[SilentWitness]

Time to let go for the poor lads sake.

 

[11101]

I remember at the time thinking "fair enough, daft but mistakes can happen" but what surprised me was the blame game placed on the pharmacy without a hint of responsibility taken by the parents.

Isn't that everything goes now? Nobody wants to take responsibility.

I do get it, I could never pull the plug on my own child, but medical expertise should prevail over the crackpots they have allowed to advise and influence them. It probably should not have been allowed to get this far in the court system.