Yes, and you'd be completely wrong, hence the reply.
Are English players overrated or is it Southgate ?
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A combination of both.
The spine of the team lacks any real depth and quality apart from an unfit Maguire and a knackered Kane. Then you have Southgate, who seems to excel more as a keynote speaker than he does a football coach.
That said, we do have some genuinely brilliant attacking options up top and at full back. It’s a shame we haven’t seen the best of them yet.
The spine of the team lacks any real depth and quality apart from an unfit Maguire and a knackered Kane. Then you have Southgate, who seems to excel more as a keynote speaker than he does a football coach.
That said, we do have some genuinely brilliant attacking options up top and at full back. It’s a shame we haven’t seen the best of them yet.
Would take Shaw, Maguire, any of your right back, posssibly Rice and Sancho in Belgium first 11
Courtois
Walker Stones Maguire Shaw
Rice
De Bruyne Tielemans
Sancho Lukaku Grealish
in my opinion. Kane over Lukaku and Hazard over Grealish usually, but on current form...Walker Stones Maguire Shaw
Rice
De Bruyne Tielemans
Sancho Lukaku Grealish
To be fair i think our depth in front (in cf) is quite decent compared with other nations. Personally i would have preferred watkins over calvert lewin becaise i think his all round game is better
There are some issues with the quality of the centre mids and centre backs but i think southgate should take most of the blame. He chopped and changed so much in terms of personel and formation since the world cup that the team doesnt seem to have an identity or a decent degree of understanding between the players
The bigger picture is that england dont produce good coaches/managers which means the international team has very little to pick from (assuming we go for an english manager)
I’m open to reading your examples.
Shaw and Maguire, maybe they eek in. Sancho is mint IMO.
Watching Shaw on Friday compared to all season for United, the difference was night and day. He never ran forward, almost like he'd been instructed to stay back? James on the other side was similar, despite being known for his attacking capabilities. Foden and Kane are starved of the ball, the only time they really got it was trying to control a ball that had been fizzed into them with 2 or 3 Scottish players on their back. There's more than enough quality in that squad to go far in this tournament, but they never will under Southgate.
You can have all the individual talent in the world, but you have to fashion a balanced team otherwise its pointless. England are suffering from not knowing what our best team is, and going into a major tournament with question marks over almost every position is not ideal.
Victims of circumstance in a way. We had two warm up games where we had to play fringe players and others that hadn't even made the final squad. In an ideal world we may have been able to use those games to figure out that this front four/six doesn't work and not have to use actual tournament games as test cases.
Victims of circumstance in a way. We had two warm up games where we had to play fringe players and others that hadn't even made the final squad. In an ideal world we may have been able to use those games to figure out that this front four/six doesn't work and not have to use actual tournament games as test cases.
Two defensive midfielders and full backs who aren't allowed to attack.
Basically trying to establish a defensive setup for when they meet better teams, and try to win with 4 players, it's not designed to play well against poor teams.
We won't know if it's the right system until they face a big team, which is the next round I believe.
Also shows that bringing TAA would indeed have been a waste of time.
Basically trying to establish a defensive setup for when they meet better teams, and try to win with 4 players, it's not designed to play well against poor teams.
We won't know if it's the right system until they face a big team, which is the next round I believe.
Also shows that bringing TAA would indeed have been a waste of time.
That Verratti from the farmers league was woeful again today. 
Southgates stubborn and predictable team selection is at fault here. Kane gets picked by default regardless. I think Gareth probably bases his tactics on the 90’s Newcastle side, where the squad was built around Shearer. He clearly hasn’t any use for the kids on bench and prefers a cautious style with everyone playing deep.
Southgate for me.
There's balance and then there's 2 DM's and defensive full-backs. It emphasises England's weakest areas while depriving their best, very strange approach.
There's balance and then there's 2 DM's and defensive full-backs. It emphasises England's weakest areas while depriving their best, very strange approach.
Its group stages. People need to come down. The aim is to qualify for knock outs. Not to be free flowing too early
Bellingham comes on against Croatia instead of Henderson but he is concerned about the experience of Sancho 
Both.
It's Southgate
As an outsider.
The problem with england is the same with united. Good result. Weak manager.
NEVER played as a team. Whenever i watched england they never string 5 passes or more when it matters. The players are there but they never play for the team. Put around half of lower table championship player who's hungry and 1 or 2 star players would make england better.
These primadonna dont have the right attitude, it's the england curse since 1968.
Dont get me started on the england media. They lambasted anyone and everyone. Pick a non star and the knives are out. Toxic media.
And as an outsider, the hooligans also made it hard to like england. Used to support them because my parents supported them. I know not every englandners are like that, some real guy i met is a real gentlemen. But when everything else is equal there's alot more NT that appeals more to support (maybe not support but rooted to do well).
With england it's more like the opposite. It's like liverpool finally winning the league, the bragging would be intolerable. Football coming home la!
The problem with england is the same with united. Good result. Weak manager.
NEVER played as a team. Whenever i watched england they never string 5 passes or more when it matters. The players are there but they never play for the team. Put around half of lower table championship player who's hungry and 1 or 2 star players would make england better.
These primadonna dont have the right attitude, it's the england curse since 1968.
Dont get me started on the england media. They lambasted anyone and everyone. Pick a non star and the knives are out. Toxic media.
And as an outsider, the hooligans also made it hard to like england. Used to support them because my parents supported them. I know not every englandners are like that, some real guy i met is a real gentlemen. But when everything else is equal there's alot more NT that appeals more to support (maybe not support but rooted to do well).
With england it's more like the opposite. It's like liverpool finally winning the league, the bragging would be intolerable. Football coming home la!
Uh. Just thought about it, but combining england and germany you get Bayern, international
Neuer-James-Hummels-Rudiger-Gosens-Kimmich-Goretzka-Muller-Gnabry-Sane-Kane
Bizarre reasoning imo.
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Southgate hasn't done that badly, has he? I mean world cup semi-final, qualified with ease, on course to get out of the group. It is not like England are favourites and all teams have off performances sometimes. It seems to me he isn't half as bad as you lot make out. Mind you the England manager is always vilified.
He would have had Owen on the bench in 98 and Rooney on the bench in 04.
This sums up my thoughts too. I can not understand why you would play two defensive midfielders but then go and hold your full backs back as well. Surely the advantage of Rice and Philips playing is that they can drop back into defence as one or other full back bombs forward to overload a wing. Holding the fullbacks back as well, which we've done in those first two games kills off any decent balls into for forwards and isolates them, you basically have 6 players primarily focused on defence with only four pushing forward, no wonder Kane is getting no ball at all. and this is against the perceived weaker teams in the tournament.
Which incredible teams did we beat to get to the semi final?
Southgate has done well up until the game on Friday for me, people need to calm down a bit. The way I look at it these managers have the magic four points total in their heads and he knew getting the four points secured our passage through regardless of what happens on Tuesday night.
I'm hoping he shows so common sense on Tuesday and he rotates the team a little, give Rashford and Sancho a start up top with Kane. Also give Grealish a run out in the midfield.
I'm hoping he shows so common sense on Tuesday and he rotates the team a little, give Rashford and Sancho a start up top with Kane. Also give Grealish a run out in the midfield.
English players are always over rated. As long as I’ve been alive, every tournament it’s the same story. The media days and weeks in the build up going on and on and on about how amazing ”this“ team is. Followed by singling out one player as some kind of Jesus figure. Just listen to them on about Grealish during the Scotland game. Like he was going to come on and just smash. He came on, got on the ball won a corner and then did nothing else of note. He got more attention laughing with team mates on the bench than he did actually playing.
But none of this helps when you have a manager like Ole…oops, I mean, Southgate. Sorry, they’re both just so shit it’s hard to distinguish between a manger who can’t make an effective change in game with another. It’s really the same story. Scotland are shit, I’m sorry fellow Scots, but we are. And Southgate with the cream of the premier league crop couldn’t come up with anything to break us down? Rashford on for Kane in a straight swap? Rashford who plays on the left wing these days pushed up top when you have DCL in great form just sitting there with his finger up his bum? Bizarre choice of personal, and even more bizarre choice when the manger should be looking to switch up the tactics as the ones employed currently aren’t working.
Once again England have another manger picking players based on media attention rather than form. How can England have had all the talent theyve had over the years and won nothing? Media attention putting too much weight on the shoulders of players? Managers making team selections that won’t get them slaughtered in the media the following day?
But none of this helps when you have a manager like Ole…oops, I mean, Southgate. Sorry, they’re both just so shit it’s hard to distinguish between a manger who can’t make an effective change in game with another. It’s really the same story. Scotland are shit, I’m sorry fellow Scots, but we are. And Southgate with the cream of the premier league crop couldn’t come up with anything to break us down? Rashford on for Kane in a straight swap? Rashford who plays on the left wing these days pushed up top when you have DCL in great form just sitting there with his finger up his bum? Bizarre choice of personal, and even more bizarre choice when the manger should be looking to switch up the tactics as the ones employed currently aren’t working.
Once again England have another manger picking players based on media attention rather than form. How can England have had all the talent theyve had over the years and won nothing? Media attention putting too much weight on the shoulders of players? Managers making team selections that won’t get them slaughtered in the media the following day?
Southgate is too loyal to his favourites. Very predictable and not responsive enough. Against Croatia in the world cup the writing was on the wall for39 minutes but Southgate was like a rabbit in the head lights. England wont get to the semis and they will have a decision to make.
he's done well?
How has he done well? England are still playing shite football. I see France, Italy, Germany, that's a well coached team. England is not.
It's crazy man. Such a waste of talent.
Its poor management, the first half showed none of the front 5 were at the races, Foden, Sterling, Mount, Kane all looked off the pace.
Unsurprisingly really, given that 3 of them didn't play any of the friendlies because of the CL final and the ones who played in the friendlies were either not in the squad or not given a chance.
The wealth of talent on the bench and yet he failed to recognise that Sterling, Foden, Mount, Kane were all having a shocker.
Unsurprisingly really, given that 3 of them didn't play any of the friendlies because of the CL final and the ones who played in the friendlies were either not in the squad or not given a chance.
The wealth of talent on the bench and yet he failed to recognise that Sterling, Foden, Mount, Kane were all having a shocker.
and... all the previous managers for the last... what... 30 years?
Granted, England does not have the best squad... but even countries who do not have a great squad... are able to overperform....not England!
You look at Turkey, South Korea, Bulgaria who got a semi-final appearance at the WC (in the last 30 years), while England have not gotten further than Costa Rica at a WC in that time!
As for the EC, even Greece did win it!
The only explanation for Englands very mediocre record in WC/EC is and has the been the incompetency of the managers.
The weaker teams will all park the bus these days and in order to break into their defenses, you need to bring a lot of your players into their half to be able to create opportunities. This opens your team up for counter attacks, which is the only chance that a weak team can beat a big team. If you run into a match like this with 2 DMs and stay deep to avoid counterattacks, even Messi would have problems in the front. Instead of 5m space you only have 2, instead of 8-10 legs you have 16. Even if you are able to dribble past someone, there will be 2-3 players to erase that mistake.
No, England is not overrated, they have amazing players, but I honestly never understood the "careful approach". You want your team to be hungry, having fun, great atmosphere, so let them lose. Yeah, there is a risk, but this is where a good coach comes in to minimize it. Not by drawing 6 people into their own half and let 4 players to the job against 8, but while having a great matchplan which minimizes the danger in counterattacks (fast CBs e.g.).
Of course I am biased, but you have one player who is in that situation nearly every game: Sancho. He plays excellently vs parked busses in front of the goal and he is so good in dribbling, that he will always create chances, you cannot stop him for a whole game.
England was my hope to stop Italy or France, which I both really don't like. Don't ruin it
No, England is not overrated, they have amazing players, but I honestly never understood the "careful approach". You want your team to be hungry, having fun, great atmosphere, so let them lose. Yeah, there is a risk, but this is where a good coach comes in to minimize it. Not by drawing 6 people into their own half and let 4 players to the job against 8, but while having a great matchplan which minimizes the danger in counterattacks (fast CBs e.g.).
Of course I am biased, but you have one player who is in that situation nearly every game: Sancho. He plays excellently vs parked busses in front of the goal and he is so good in dribbling, that he will always create chances, you cannot stop him for a whole game.
England was my hope to stop Italy or France, which I both really don't like. Don't ruin it
Yes that's the problem. He did well and they said he got easier teams on the way to semi final of world cup. But England achieved before that for past three decades?. No is the answer.
This tournament started now only. He needed kane to fire. He gave as much minutes to him as he could and also on the course to be qualified from the group as winner.
They wanted grealish grealish but he did nothing other than roaming around for 30 minutes. Now want Sancho Sancho who also did nothing in previous friendlies for England to warrant starting place either. Realistically Southgate in lose lose situation even if he win whole thing.
We didn't, but then we didn't draw any of them so it wasn't really a possibility. I get the point that we only played to our ranking, perhaps, but the team played well at times in that tournament. He deserves a little credit, surely. Lots of time left in this tournie too.
It's garbage. Unrealistic expectations? If you don't want to put "unrealistic expectations" on the shoulders of these youngsters then don't be bringing Grealish on at what 27 minutes to go in a 0-0 game. Or Rashford on for Kane with 16 minutes left? Expecting them to change a game in that time?
And if he wasn't expecting that, then he was rotating/shuffling players to keep a 0-0 draw. I swear he's drab as feck, it was clear as day to everyone watching that certain players weren't having an effect within the first 45 minutes, and the formation we had was just playing into the hands of Scotland. But Southgate is such a wet lettuce and "doesn't want to lose" so we have to watch some of the best young players in the world sit on the bench, and the others play in a formation without any bite.
I'm 100% confident he only threw Grealish on the pitch to get people off his back about playing him. But he threw him into a setup that hadn't been working 63 minutes prior so what difference are you expecting him to make?
Southgate.
3 shots on target across 2 games is shocking considering the talent we have up top.
He's doing what he's always done, make us hard to beat and banking on Kane to score. Nothing else up his sleeve - just an uncharismatic Mourinho
3 shots on target across 2 games is shocking considering the talent we have up top.
He's doing what he's always done, make us hard to beat and banking on Kane to score. Nothing else up his sleeve - just an uncharismatic Mourinho
I think the players, particularly further up the pitch are top class. Kane, Sterling, Foden, Mount, Grealish, Rashford, Sancho, etc, these are not average players, yet we’ve only managed 3 shots on target in 2 games. That tells me it’s the manager. I think he’s a very safety first coach. He seems to lack bravery & courage. I think it will be our undoing & may cost him his job.
Agree.
England are light in some areas ... Maguire injury big loss, Mings isn't a top Intl CH and no idea why White brought into the squad when TAA dropped out. Watkins should have been picked over DcL originally (far more mobile) never mind when TAA dropped out.
Effectively playing with seven back which means the four attacking players need to be top top c!ass... they're not and not in great form.
Drop Rice, play Bellingham or even Foden more central with Mount and Rashford/Grealish left, Sancho right. Also pick up the tempo, slow sideways passing while defences get back and set is like watching United.
Loads of FBs, DCL selection, White call up, dinosaur tactics, names over form, no trust in young (talented in form players), has favourites.... they're all Southgate decisions. It's him.
Mancini or Tuchel might win the Euros with this squad.
Southgate talked about the lack of ball players in midfield after the Scotland draw, so it will be interesting to see if he does anything to change the Rice + Philipps combo. I reckon he could play Grealish and Mount in midfield ahead of Rice if he wasn't so risk averse. Both Sterling and Tesco Gazza have had enough opportunities without results so it might be time to step aside and let Rashford/Sancho have a game.
Kane
Rashford Grealish Mount Sancho
Rice
Shaw Mings Stones Trippier
Pickford
There's enough attacking talent to at least not make it so drab and unimaginative.Rashford Grealish Mount Sancho
Rice
Shaw Mings Stones Trippier
Pickford
I hope Southgate wins this tournament of course, though I strongly doubt he will. But I was thinking what English managers there have been in my lifetime who have actually won anything important and I can only think of Bobby Robson and El Tel, who both won titles abroad and got the national team to semi finals.
English managers are generally not very good. The only English manager around at the moment who has won anything worthwhile is Gerrard which says it all. Maybe Southgate will change that.
I should also say that the above only applies to the men, maybe there are women English managers who are more successful?
English managers are generally not very good. The only English manager around at the moment who has won anything worthwhile is Gerrard which says it all. Maybe Southgate will change that.
I should also say that the above only applies to the men, maybe there are women English managers who are more successful?
Completely forgot that they were playing the mighty, eh, Wales?That Verratti from the farmers league was woeful again today.
It's especially bizarre because the same doesn't apply to others, like Foden, Mount, Rice, James.
It's a tad bizarre that Southgate has a winger on the bench that's averaged 20 assists per season for Dortmund in the past 3 years, and still he has an reluctance to play him even when the alternatives aren't performing.
Foden, in his role for England on the right, looks like a complete waste of space. Kane has been atrocious so far, barely involved in anything.