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Are Russia doping?

Vidyoyo

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They aren't great, but they've got a couple of very good players (like Akinfeev) and they've not really needed to be good so far. Both SA and Egypt were crap, which allowed them to get through, and a 1-1 draw between Russia and Spain on Russia's patch in a qualifying campaign wouldn't have been a particularly shocking or strange result. Especially when considering that Spain weren't playing well at all.
Firstly, no he isn't. He's okay but not that good. Secondly, I agree that they haven't needed to be great so far. Egypt and Saudi Arabia are even worse and in fairness they looked pretty crap against Uruguay. However, their fitness levels seem absolutely mental, which is what PEDs will do - they won't alter technique and basic footballing ability.

Feel free to give them the benefit of the doubt. They don't deserve it but whatever.
 

Cheesy

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Firstly, no he isn't. Secondly, I agree that they haven't needed to be great so far. Egypt and Saudi Arabia are even worse and in fairness they looked pretty crap against Uruguay. However, their fitness levels seem absolutely mental, which is what PEDs will do - they won't alter technique and basic footballing ability.

Feel free to give them the benefit of the doubt. They don't deserve it but whatever.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you here. Russia as a nation do have a shocking history when it comes to doping, and if you asked me for my own personal stance on it I'd probably be 50/50 as to whether they are or not. But I don't think their performance is that shocking if they're not doping - they got an easy route to the last 16, and then sneaked through on penalties after an okayish performance against a Spain side that wasn't playing well. Hosts always gain a massive advantage and that's helping them to an extent. Although, yeah, fitness levels do look quite extreme.
 

Kostur

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Firstly, no he isn't and that's been well established on this forum over the years. Secondly, I agree that they haven't needed to be great so far. Egypt and Saudi Arabia are even worse and in fairness they looked pretty crap against Uruguay. However, their fitness levels seem absolutely mental, which is what PEDs will do - they won't alter technique and basic footballing ability.

Feel free to give them the benefit of the doubt. They don't deserve it but whatever.
Care to elaborate?
 

antihenry

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Firstly, no he isn't and that's been well established on this forum over the years. Secondly, I agree that they haven't needed to be great so far. Egypt and Saudi Arabia are even worse and in fairness they looked pretty crap against Uruguay. However, their fitness levels seem absolutely mental, which is what PEDs will do - they won't alter technique and basic footballing ability.

Feel free to give them the benefit of the doubt. They don't deserve it but whatever.
Why don't they deserve it?
 

Mrs Smoker

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Top distances in 120 minute matches at World Cups.

USA 154,948 (2014)
Germany 150,487 (2014)
Belgium 147,259 (2014)
Switzerland 147,206 (2014)
Russia 146,000 (est.)

Not running as fast as Russia though.

They're not really that fast.

Top speeds of Russians in group stage (new data still not available)
Cheryshev 32.18 (v Uruguay)
Maro Fernandes 31.50 (v Saudi Arabia)
Cheryshev 31.03 (v Saudi Arabia)
Golovin 30.60 (v Saudi Arabia)
Kudriashov 30.17 (v Egypt)
 

LoneStar

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If anyone was doping, I'd bet it was that Pep's Barcelona team at its peak.

People simply saying Russia are biased. If it is happening, then it would most probably be happening across all the teams and players.

Besides, Russia did look knackered at the end. Silva on the other hand, definitely looks like he is doping. Ridiculous how he seems to just endlessly run on the pitch, when he's supposed to be past his peak physically.
 

Cloud7

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FFS are people really going to talk about Russia doling after they just knocked out Spain? Does the name Fuentes ring a bell :lol:
 

Mrs Smoker

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Still have to do couple of matches, but it seems that Cristiano Ronaldo, of Portugal is the fastest player of World Cup 2018 with the top speed of 33.98 km/h!
 

Vidyoyo

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Care to elaborate?
I feel like every time Afinfeev's name comes up it's to talk about how he never lived up to his potential as a worldie. We've played CSKA a few times over the past few years (as recently as 2017) and he's never really been immense in any game I can remember.

If I'm wrong, feel free to suggest how. I don't remember him being anything other than decent enough.
 

Gambit

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Well we can safely say Spain aren't any more. Also what was the Russian half time sub sniffing as he was coming on?
 

Classical Mechanic

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Top distances in 120 minute matches at World Cups.

USA 154,948 (2014)
Germany 150,487 (2014)
Belgium 147,259 (2014)
Switzerland 147,206 (2014)
Russia 146,000 (est.)



They're not really that fast.

Top speeds of Russians in group stage (new data still not available)
Cheryshev 32.18 (v Uruguay)
Maro Fernandes 31.50 (v Saudi Arabia)
Cheryshev 31.03 (v Saudi Arabia)
Golovin 30.60 (v Saudi Arabia)
Kudriashov 30.17 (v Egypt)
I was making a joke!
 

Classical Mechanic

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Yeah. Part of me would think that's something FIFA can task people with checking on.
Part of you is naive. Testing very rarely catches dopers and FIFA have slack regimen. Did you ever read the mechanics of Russia’s state sponsored doping programme? It was a serious operation only uncovered by a whistleblower.

Not saying Russia are doping because their is no serious evidence but I fully believe a corrupt organisation like FIFA would cover up any positive tests. How could they boot Russia out after the criticism they took for giving them the World Cup in the first place?

The brand is too important as well but also very weak in terms of credibility at the moment. I just can’t see how they could survive such a scandal.
 

Paxi

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:lol:That bald guy they had was that was that fecking slow I highly doubt he was doping.
Ignashevich? He's as old as Saint Basil's cathedral. He's bloody hair has fallen out and everything.
 

MoskvaRed

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I certainly believe Russia are capable of doping but I haven’t seen anything in their play to invite suspicion. Today they just defended very well, inspired by 70,000 very loud fans, and performed better (including the keeper) at penalties. As long as they keep meeting teams without great goal scorers (and Croatia also fall into that category), they can repeat the same trick.
 

Nucks

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Meaningless generalizations always help the most corrupted. Same as "all politicians are liars", "no country has true democracy", and so on.

No. Everyone is not the same. Corruption is not the same everywhere.

The OP provides evidence that the Russians do many more fast runs than anyone else. If "everyone is doping", why are the Russians beating everyone else?
Because this isn't how "doping" works.

There are all kinds of different PEDs.

PEDs are not magic. What they TYPICALLY do in the case of steroids, is allow faster recovery from brutally difficult workout regimes, they might promote muscle growth and size. They might promote inexplicable fat loss. They might promote recovery. They typically give significant (10-15%) increases in cardio/strength when you're cycled on, but you lose these false gains as soon as the stuff clears your system. HOWEVER, the incredible gains you can make while doing your brutal workout regimes, do actually stay with you. You might lose the power up from the juice, but the work you did on the juice DOES stay.

Anyone who doubts that the majority of top tier footballers are on something, are adorably naive. PED infests all nations and all levels of competitive sport, from high level amateur to high level professional. The doping controls are easily beaten in virtually ALL sports. The money is insane. The risk versus reward for doping in professional football is a NO BRAINER. Some of the easiest to beat, laxist doping control protocols in sport, with some of the most lucrative rewards in all of sport.

Here is GSP (one of the best ever MMA fighters, a sport riddled with PED use) talking about how easy it is to game the system, and this is under one of the most stringent testing protocols in the world.

“Let’s say I want to have an injection of a product that will last in my body for two days or one day. So I know that particular day I cannot be tested, because if I am, I’m screwed. So I put on my [USADA] whereabouts [app] that I’m traveling to freakin’ Antarctica or anywhere, somewhere that is believable, and then I come back two days after. That substance will stay in my body for a certain period of time, but the effect of it will last maybe a month. And now we’re talking about performance enhancing drugs — people, they misunderstand this.

“They go, ‘Well yeah, but it still doesn’t make a difference.’ Yes, it does make the different in an athlete,” St-Pierre continued. “And the reason, in the eighties and before, [PEDs gave] you more power, more stamina, more endurance. Now, man, with the technology, they have stuff that will change your reaction time, your confidence, your reset time. And this is a huge, huge application, man. If you play baseball or you’re fighting, you see the things coming, you have your reaction time, you’re sharper in the brain. What makes a guy athletic, it’s not his muscle. The reason why Usain Bolt ran faster — there’s many reasons why, but one of the main reasons is because his brain, his nervous system is faster.

“And if you make your nervous system better and more competent, you’re a better athlete. You’re a better fighter, you’re a better baseball player. You’re a better person, in a way. Of course that effect is limited, but there’s still the muscle memory thing that will last and it could last forever.”
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Because this isn't how "doping" works.

There are all kinds of different PEDs.

Anyone who doubts that the majority of top tier footballers are on something, are adorably naive.

Here is GSP (one of the best ever MMA fighters, a sport riddled with PED use) talking about how easy it is to game the system, and this is under one of the most stringent testing protocols in the world.
Great post.

Anyone that doubts that the majority of athletes walk on a semi-illegal line of enhancement at all times is just daft.

My friend worked for years in an F1 Team. It's an absolute open secret that drivers are juiced to the gills. Drugs to train in the gym, mega doses of drugs designed to improve reaction times, drugs to strip fat. They were doing so much gear of so many different varieties. The doping protocols they use are a suggestive nod towards compliance. A urine test that's tested for very few things.

Too many people look at the fact that not many people get caught, as evidence. When really it's confirmation of how far behind testing is, and how organised doping efforts are.
 

WR10

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Why do people continue to use top speeds and total distance covered as data evidence against doping? It has nothing to do with those two stats.
 

breakout67

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Yeah. Part of me would think that's something FIFA can task people with checking on.
Someone definitely 'checked on' the blood bags taken from that Madrid based doctor. I believe WADA have the blood bags now and they are probably stuck in a cooler in a warehouse in the woods.

Last I read, doping was proved but because of the laws at the time they found those involved as innocent. WADA also refuse to release the details of their investigation because they fear being sued by the athletes.
 

Hansa

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My friend worked for years in an F1 Team. It's an absolute open secret that drivers are juiced to the gills. Drugs to train in the gym, mega doses of drugs designed to improve reaction times, drugs to strip fat. They were doing so much gear of so many different varieties. The doping protocols they use are a suggestive nod towards compliance. A urine test that's tested for very few things.
I checked the signatories of WADAs anti-doping code, and I couldn't find any motorsport organizations there (apart from the International Motorcycling Federation). So of course there isn't any good testing going on. To use this as a proof that "everybody" in every sport does it is a lazy assumption.
 

breakout67

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I checked the signatories of WADAs anti-doping code, and I couldn't find any motorsport organizations there (apart from the International Motorcycling Federation). So of course there isn't any good testing going on. To use this as a proof that "everybody" in every sport does it is a lazy assumption.
You must also think Ronnie Coleman was natural because he was tested as a policeman :angel:
 

Amar__

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They probably have Ivan Drago on the bench for quarter finals.
 

Hansa

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You must also think Ronnie Coleman was natural because he was tested as a policeman :angel:
What are you telling me here? Ronnie wasn't natural? Feck. Time to tear down the posters on my wall and put up Jay and Arnold instead :wenger:
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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To be fair @Nucks , MMA is the one sport where they all seem to get caught.
In MMA there's very little impetus to not dope though. When top fighters fight once a year, twice at a maximum, a year ban for testing positive is irrelevant (Two year bans are rare I believe). Fighters just spend that year throwing as much gear into their system as possible.

As an example of how awful the testing regime is, below is the number of tests that Jon Jones, paragon of virtue, has been subjected to, by year.

2018 - 0 (Clearly they trust that he has repented and will be drug free while on his Ban for steroid abuse)
2017 - 9
2016 - 7
2015 - 2
2014 - 0 (Think he served a year long ban around this time)

18 tests in 54 months. 4 of those tests would have been after his fights. So 14 tests in 54 months. Good luck with that. I'm obviously aware that he failed two tests so my example is kind of backwards as an illustration but it's still not enough testing.

They pay lip service to doping. They're not trying to stop it, they're trying to give the organisation credibility. They sample their top athletes about once a month. That's simply not enough. Yes, people are still getting caught but the USADA/UFC testing regime is heralded as the most stringent in the entire world.