As per thread title. I'm actually struggling to think of any other sport where diving, play acting, tactical fouls and the like are "acceptable" ways to win a game. Every time a crack has been opened in other sports (rugby has had the odd incident, cricket too), the door has been closed on the person or persons involved. See: Cameron Bancroft in 2018.
Are there other sports where rampant cheating is accepted the way it is in football?
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Mad that despite all that crap football is still easily the best sport going.
Almost all of them. I mean, the NBA is probably worse, it's close... but yeah. All of them are shady, when you get to that level, any edge and flexing of the rules is going to happen.
Depends on who says they are acceptable because personally I don't, but I know that some people feel differently and winning is all that matters
I don't even know what rules there are to break in Basketball but when I watch games seems to me like they never call travelling and that's always struck me as odd
It's really far behind other sports in this aspect. The integrity of the game is questioned too often, with officials and those running them having no conviction or trust behind them from the public, teams etc. It's almost ran like a mob it seems, and in other sports like Handball you wont find this type of stuff anymore, it's acknowledged how big of an influence the refs can have on a game so they are very up front and honest. They make rule changes or decides on a line of consistency and the refs HAVE to abide them, so they do. It all seems a lot more professional on that front, in comparison to football which is just ridiculous. They've been left behind, because there is no discussion on how the game is influenced by refs. They wont come up with solutions to problems when they don't admit it exists.
That captures my feelings on it a bit. Compared with a rugby match, despite having infinitely less money involved, it feels way more professional and deliberately so even.
It’s also the sport worse for ignoring the rules and judging what they should be in an inconsistent basis
NBA for sure, boxing is probably the king in that regard though.
I read recently that in the NBA, there’s a form of travelling which while not legal, will also very very rarely be called because A. There is little advantage and B. it’s bad entertainment to have a pernickety referee calling technicals every 10 seconds.
The equivalent of foul throws virtually never being called in EPL
Waterpolo, @Wibble? Basically everything that's happening underwater...
Baseball also seems fairly shady to me, or some high-profile attempts at it, anyway.
Baseball also seems fairly shady to me, or some high-profile attempts at it, anyway.
Think I started a similar thread a while back.
I don't know another sport where pain and injury is faked so often.
I don't know another sport where pain and injury is faked so often.
The travelling rule is actually slightly different in the NBA compared to other leagues and even youth basketball. A 'gather step' is allowed before the two steps after picking the ball up in the NBA, in most other instances in basketball the gather step is part of the two steps.
All sports have cheating/rule exploitation and it's rampant in all of them. And the reason is fairly simple, in competitive sport, the best teams/athletes try to gain any advantage one of them will concern rules, their applications or blind spot as much as possible. It's one of many competitive advantages.
In baseball they get punished if caught though so it's not really accepted
Feels like a timely thread since we face Newcastle Sunday
The comparison I’d make is that strategic fouling is even more a part of the game in basketball than it is in football. Towards the end of close games, teams will often deliberately foul in order to stop the clock and get possession back quickly. They’ll even attempt to foul the weakest free-thrower in the hope that they miss.
But for me, this is more acceptable than rugby tackling someone on the halfway line to stop a dangerous counterattack in football, as the fouling team’s punishment is so weak compared to basketball.
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It's embarrassing to see grown men behave the way they do, and then hear commentary like "they are the masters of the dark arts", no it's cheating. I was listening to Talksport suggest that Eddy Howe went to Madrid to find out what methods Atletico employ to get the most out of matches, and they were saying it's "part of the game". How is learning to cheat now considered "part of the game"?. Particularly rich but probably not surprising given it was coming from Martin Keown and Lee Bowyer.
@SER19 literally typed this just as you posted ironically
In what way would you say boxing is the king of cheating? It is one of the more gentlemanly sports to me, with refs being strict with any illegal blows they see and the fighters being respectful of their decisions.
Judges of course can be terrible.
Cycling is surely the worst. Drug taking has been pretty much don't ask don't tell for the past 30 years and is now just condoned with the use of TUEs.
I can’t stand the cheating in football, I just can’t imagine having full satisfaction winning a game because I cheated. You can play the game competitively without it.
You would only say this if you didn't follow any other sports. Others have mentioned basketball with the traveling and flopping/simulation, but non Americans might not be familiar with how much cheating goes on in baseball. Whether it's pitchers doctoring the ball to change its flight pattern to batters doctoring their bats to make them lighter and easier to swing, it basically happens out in the open. There's a whole wikipedia article about cheating in baseball detailing all the ways this goes on, basically as an open secret.
The difference is that the authorities in baseball do something about it when they catch someone cheating, retrospectively when the need arises, and not just players, managers, coaches and teams all get punished, players in football don't get retroactively punished and neither do clubs except in failure to control situations
Boxing is worse I think. Even with judges and refs
At the highest level there is relatively little underwater cheating as you don't have the time to both do your job and foul underwater plus retribution can be brutal if the refs don't protect players.
The rules are also very specific with defenders getting kicked out if they make contact with the attacker when they don't have both hands in the air (and the attacker has released the ball). So a typical kickout would be the ball is passed into centre forward. The centre forward releases and leans back into the defender earning a foul/kickout. If the attacker is still touching the ball he is fair game barring brutality/punches or a head hit. Basically penalising the defender for poor positioning and not having their hands up.
My son now plays pro in the Greek 1st Div and this is an example of a CF earning a kickout. He then scores on the next extra man powerplay.
The other thing is that the contact allowed is far greater at the highest level, so further illegal underwater contact isn't as neccesary. In this clip he scores after being smashed and it probably wouldn't have even been a foul, much less a kickout, if he hadn't scored.
Reffing at lower levels can be terrible and players then tend to try to simulate more and then fights tend to follow when refs lose control of games.
That all said things do get missed and incorrect decisions made due to referees having to make decisions at distance for things that happen underwater.
Simulation (exaggeration) does occur but at the top level doesn't occur very much, even if it does at lesser levels. To address this FINA have introduced specific penalties for simulation this year.
I should mention that strategic fouling is an intended part of the game. Which is fairly unusual in sport. However, water polo wouldn't work as a sport without it. Rules have been introduced to better allow the playing of advantage if fouled when attacking, with referees allowed to award fouls/penalties if they let the play go and a goal doesn't result.
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Big furore in baseball because the Houston Astros were "stealing signs". Essentially the signals that the catcher was sending to the pitcher asking for a specific pitch were recorded and analysed by the club. This was a "heinous" crime. Seems to me that if you do something in public in full view the other team should be able to work with that just as much as the person sitting at home in front of their TV.
Imagine if the teams in the EPL were punished for trying to figure out what Pep and LegoP were trying to get across to their players with all their hand waving!
Imagine if the teams in the EPL were punished for trying to figure out what Pep and LegoP were trying to get across to their players with all their hand waving!
Cycling definitely has it going on. It wasn't all that long ago speculation was rampant that miniature motors had been installed in some Grand Tour level riders' bikes.
The 'sticky bottle' has always been a thing. Then there's 'finishing bottles' or 'pot belgique'.
Then of course there's the performance enhancing stuff, it goes on at all levels to some extent.
It's a variation of the jockey problem, lose weight but not muscle mass.
The 'sticky bottle' has always been a thing. Then there's 'finishing bottles' or 'pot belgique'.
Then of course there's the performance enhancing stuff, it goes on at all levels to some extent.
It's a variation of the jockey problem, lose weight but not muscle mass.
Rugby players are constantly cheating. The scrum and the breakdown are a nightmare to referee, every defensive line is offside. They push everything to the absolute limit. Granted they don't really exaggerate contact or dive but it's professional sport you get away with what you can.
Only sports that are very clean are : Tennis, volleyball, ping pong and other non contact sports (except chess ). There are other forms of cheating in those sports - doesn't happen during actual game. Bball is full of tricks and cheating. Handball too. In water polo there is a lot that is going under water.
What is wrong with that?
Interesting! Thanks for the follow-up.
My brother played water polo at a (very) low level, maybe that's where I'm getting my impression from. Although come to think of it, I think I thought of it as a rough rather than a dirty or unfair sport.Boxing, horse racing, gymnastics, running, cycling... I think most sports have cheating on an epic scale that warps the fairness of the competition.
Boxing. Canelo became more popular and beloved after being caught cheating. Plus a thousand other examples.
That's not quite what they were doing, they were using the live video feed to determine the signs and that is illegal, the Red Sox were found guilty of it to a lesser degree as well
Stealing signs is not actually against the rules but using electronics to do it is
Is poker a sport?
It isn't for the faint hearted.
Disc Golf mate. You get to tell people you're a professional golfer when you're throwing a frisbee about.