I can't help but wonder if the fans shouldn't be more vocal in their protests about what's happening at the club. We were one of the elite clubs in world football with a genuine claim to be the biggest club in the world up until about six years ago when Fergie left. Since then, we have never challenged for the league title and only finished twice in the top four. Would the fans of clubs like Bayern, Barcelona and Real Madrid, our so-called peers, be so relaxed about that happening to them? I doubt it. There would be howls from the stands calling for the board to be sacked at every home game.
Are we, the fans, to blame for what's happening?
- Thread starter padzilla
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The loyal and docile nature of our match going fans does help the Glazers and Ed Woodward a bit but other than a complete boycott or constant booing they can't do much to affect decisions at the club.
In saying that at Real Madrid Moyes wouldn't have survived Fulham, Jose Sevilla and Ole Everton. That is down mainly to Perez and their fans unshakably high standards.
In saying that at Real Madrid Moyes wouldn't have survived Fulham, Jose Sevilla and Ole Everton. That is down mainly to Perez and their fans unshakably high standards.
I think it has to be seen in context. Appointing Moyes in 2013 was a disaster, but then the next two appointments were supposed to be bomb-proof. Both LvG in 2014 and Mourinho in 2016 - especially Mourinho - were supposed to bring the good times back. Even though they were relative failures, the fans always believed that the team was on the cusp.
Then Ole came in and there was a superb uptick in form and again the fans were hopeful. But it is only since April that I would say that a lot of fans including me have become disillusioned of where this club is and where it is going. For the first time it feels that United can no longer compete and that it is rotting from within. Going forward, I am hoping that the fans are going to be much more vocal in expressing their frustration at OT (directed at upper management particularly).
Yes & No, in one aspect as fan's, we had been spoiled with one of if not the best even, manager the game has had, he could turn a turd into gold, and nearer the end of his career that's exactly what SAF has done.
You will never see full-on rage like you do from Spanish team's because how many "fans" that go to away games are "hardcore supporters" or love the club to that extent, and how many go for a day out with the kids or whatnot, United in general, is it's own worse enemy, we are rotting from the inside out.
As long as the club keep's making money, the Glazers have zero reasons to sell, does not matter where we finish in the table, the name alone Manchester United carries a lot of weight irrespective how far we fall, as the saying goes, the bigger you are the harder you fall, and United became a giant.
Sooner or later something was going to give, and now we are seeing that no matter the manager, the structure of the club is a complete and utter shambles, the philosophy has been lost, the soul of United has been ripped out and been replaced with commercialism.
I think it will take a long time before we see anything that remotely resembles the United of old, it's going to be a long and bumpy road.
You will never see full-on rage like you do from Spanish team's because how many "fans" that go to away games are "hardcore supporters" or love the club to that extent, and how many go for a day out with the kids or whatnot, United in general, is it's own worse enemy, we are rotting from the inside out.
As long as the club keep's making money, the Glazers have zero reasons to sell, does not matter where we finish in the table, the name alone Manchester United carries a lot of weight irrespective how far we fall, as the saying goes, the bigger you are the harder you fall, and United became a giant.
Sooner or later something was going to give, and now we are seeing that no matter the manager, the structure of the club is a complete and utter shambles, the philosophy has been lost, the soul of United has been ripped out and been replaced with commercialism.
I think it will take a long time before we see anything that remotely resembles the United of old, it's going to be a long and bumpy road.
Yes.
A giant portion of United fans being spoilt children is at the moment the biggest issue facing United supporters.
No, were not that significant.
Our fans are hypocrites. Cry Woodward out in July/August only to start blaming the manager when the season starts. Some fools think changing the manager will bring success. Better luck with this board in charge.
I think there is more that we could do if I’m honest.
Two things I would like to see happen (but won’t and would be very controversial);
1. Buy tickets but boycott games. Empty seats more worrying for sponsors than it being about Match Day revenue which has no impact
2. Vocal criticism of individuals - I am sorry it’s horrible to hear but I do feel that fans of Real Madrid and Barcelona wouldn’t tolerate players like we do. Lingard, for example, would have been hounded out years ago. Not nice, but I do believe the fans have to make their feelings on the same old failures known. Otherwise they keep getting new contracts and keep getting picked.
Two things I would like to see happen (but won’t and would be very controversial);
1. Buy tickets but boycott games. Empty seats more worrying for sponsors than it being about Match Day revenue which has no impact
2. Vocal criticism of individuals - I am sorry it’s horrible to hear but I do feel that fans of Real Madrid and Barcelona wouldn’t tolerate players like we do. Lingard, for example, would have been hounded out years ago. Not nice, but I do believe the fans have to make their feelings on the same old failures known. Otherwise they keep getting new contracts and keep getting picked.
We haven't suffered a truly disastrous season (for example, genuinely flirting with relegation). If that occurred, then we'd see real uproar.
What goes up must come down. How do you think AC Milan fans feel these days? In the 90s and 00s they were a constant feature at the top, now they haven’t seen CL football in ages.
United fans are their own biggest problem, not the club’s. Our fanbase seem to feel entitled to be constantly challenging for the biggest trophies (thanks for that, Fergie!), when fact of the matter is that no club can sustain that, decade in and decade out.
We want change, but we won’t allow for any long term development without losing our shit every time we drop points.
United fans are their own biggest problem, not the club’s. Our fanbase seem to feel entitled to be constantly challenging for the biggest trophies (thanks for that, Fergie!), when fact of the matter is that no club can sustain that, decade in and decade out.
We want change, but we won’t allow for any long term development without losing our shit every time we drop points.
Considering our resources and wage bill, finishing 6th or 7th without winning anything should be seen as a truly disastrous season. No need to wait until we do a Chelsea 15/16.
It should be but such mediocrity has sadly been accepted as the norm. At the end of the day any club ran so poorly off the field can't expect to be a success on the field.
I think RAWK once referred to them as 'bed wetters'. Keep believing people - this was never going to be a one transfer window fix.
Reckon it's totally doable but it will take time.
I'm not even sure that's true anymore. Something about frogs and boiling water...
Yes, we are to blame too of course.
This.
The vast majority aren't supporters because, well, they don't support. One on here even to me said the other day "I'm not a supporter, I'm a fan." Basically, "I'm not here to get behind the team, I'm just here to demand that we win and will complain when we don't."
A consequence of the club and the game becoming a truly worldwide commodity.
There's definitely a desire among lots of fans to appear loyal and not 'spoilt'. Guess a lot of them were labelled gloryhunters during the years of success and see this as a chance to prove themselves. It's definitely not helpful.
That said, I'm not a fan of booing either. Look at clubs such as Newcastle - they start booing after two bad results, and where has it got them?
Do you actually have experience of the fans you're talking about? Or are you just trying to show off to a bunch of strangers on the internet?
This year we’ve played good football, improved on last year and started blooding in young players.
The season is three games in, we’ve missed penalties, had awful refereeing decisions and welcomed three promising signings.
What on Earth would we boycott games for? What would be the ultimate hope?
Is it too... spend more money? Sack the manager? Sell more deadwood? What is the thinking here?
The season is three games in, we’ve missed penalties, had awful refereeing decisions and welcomed three promising signings.
What on Earth would we boycott games for? What would be the ultimate hope?
Is it too... spend more money? Sack the manager? Sell more deadwood? What is the thinking here?
Yes, apparently we need to be more patient, every manager deserves at least 5 years to implement his ideas. If we only gave Moyes more time, we wouldn't have any problems right now.
Try this thread for a start:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/are-we-the-fans-to-blame-for-whats-happening.450135/#post-24621157
I wouldn't say hypocrites, I'd say there's many on Redcafé who are whingeing fools. You're spot on about blaming the manager time after time though when the constant is not the coach.
Isn't that just football fans in general though? Also, don't really see how RedCafe has any influence on what the Glazers and Woodward do...
I don't want to speak for others, but the club really need to get their act together with regards to planning. Look at the transfer window, how did we not manage to sign midfielders? How did we sell Lukaku without lining up a replacement? Why are there reports of Sanchez possibly staying on because Martial has picked up an injury? Injuries happen in a season anyway - what is the plan to cope? Seems like there is none and that is a legitimate source of concern and frustration for some fans.
I have always stated that the fans need to do more. With millions of United fans and now the ease of social media in everyones hand. This should be a start to showing our disappointment on a regular basis. So many fans though don't bother or believe it will not make a difference. In reality though it can make a huge difference.
Having a Director running the club that doesnt have any previous football experience and is learning from mistakes on the spot is not acceptable at all. Thats just the start if whats wrong in the club.
We may win the next 10 matches. Even if we win the league this season (just as an example). It doesnt delete the fact that you need the right people in the right place to be successful in the long run.
Fix what is obviously wrong instead of circling around other issues and the fans will stop complaining.
Having a Director running the club that doesnt have any previous football experience and is learning from mistakes on the spot is not acceptable at all. Thats just the start if whats wrong in the club.
We may win the next 10 matches. Even if we win the league this season (just as an example). It doesnt delete the fact that you need the right people in the right place to be successful in the long run.
Fix what is obviously wrong instead of circling around other issues and the fans will stop complaining.
It's a slow process that will happen in stages, this is stage 1. I like our direction.
I think the fans need to understand we don't attract the players and managers like we used to, it will take time.
I think the fans need to understand we don't attract the players and managers like we used to, it will take time.
If anything the fans have been too patient.
Football goes in cycles and we had 2 decades at the top in recent history and before that in the 60's as well. Liverpool are now in their 26th year of not winning the big prize - the PL. They did everything right with their management progression but still the wait goes on. Their fans are brilliant and the noise they make is incredible. Before that Spurs were winning doubles and creating history and whilst they have not reached that level for some decades their team is always full of attacking intent and purpose. A joy to watch.
I personally think some of our fans come across as a little entitled - and I don't necessarily mean on these boards - and they give all of us a bad name because whenever something goes wrong the oppo are there with their knives/negativity eagerly putting the boot in. Yes it is sad but sometimes I think we should try and be grateful for all the good times we have had which is currently more than any other English club.
Could we improve? Absolutely. I don't think changing everything at this stage is helpful. Maybe a DOF would help but perhaps the person they want is contracted elsewhere and they need to wait.
Bayern & Real Madrid failed to get all of the players they wanted this season which is telling.
How about we try more than 3 games in a new season. The manager hasnt even had time to build his squad. Try to be a bit serious?
Pretty much. It was only because of Fergie we held off these ''fans'' for so long.
I think the opposite - we give too much leeway to mediocre performance from the club in terms of transfers / results. Pull this shit off at RM / Barca and heads will roll. Partly why the clowns running the circus are still in charge. With our financial might and two decades of success, we should've done a LOT better the past six years than we did and people need to lose their jobs over it (not just the managers, the managers are victims of the structure and it's becoming clear that even if we give Pep / Klopp this team tomorrow, we'll still continue to be shit).
Fire the execs and decision makers starting with Woodward first and get a competent CEO in. Re-evaluate the club's structure and how we're run and don't just default to the ex-Utd pundits like Rio / Scholes / Neville for input.
Fire the execs and decision makers starting with Woodward first and get a competent CEO in. Re-evaluate the club's structure and how we're run and don't just default to the ex-Utd pundits like Rio / Scholes / Neville for input.
Crazy thread. As if we could influence anything.
Personally I think you’ve got it all mixed up and the club has acted to what the fans have been saying/doing. In terms of managers anyway.
How so ? We have been watching complete and utter dribble for 6 seasons and not once have we had a proper go at the board and Woodward at OT . Yeah fans moan on here but that's what any other clubs fans do on social media . United fans as match going fans are the most patient .
Exactly. It's not just football either. We are living in peak outrage culture brought about by the internet and social media. Look at fans of Marvel Films, Star Wars, Video Games, TV Shows... Football fans are no different, and in comparison, United Fans are extremely tame, especially in the online space, in comparison to fans of other types of entertainment.
100% the attitude of the Old Trafford fans is an issue. You can get behind the team and protest about the ownership at the same time.
I think we are too nice. Neither Real, Barca, Bayern or Juventus would accept this kind of crap.
Yes, absolutely. However, I don't see United fans waiving the proverbial white handkerchiefs for cultural reasons - in England, you're supposed to support the team through thick & thin and hence be taken for a ride by the owners.
Because they play in farmers leagues where they are guaranteed CL football every year.