Can't believe our match going fans can't even organise a protest of some sort. The apathy is worrying.
Are we, the fans, to blame for what's happening?
- Thread starter padzilla
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We can’t really operate like Madrid or Barcelona though. To them managers are interchangeable, it’s the board whose the driving force. I’m not sure I’d want the Glazers or Ed Woodward having that responsibility. It’s not an indictment on them because I wouldn’t want some sheikh doing it for us either. I’m happy with our model of letting the manager build his team. If we had hired Klopp and gave him what we gave our managers I highly doubt we’d be where we are at the moment.
What I do blame the fans for is accepting mediocrity in a lot of ways. It’s infuriating to watch fans destroy Pogba for missing a few passes when we have useless players like Lingard who do nothing but “he plays for the shirt” who gets a pass because he’s a good squad player (he isn’t) and offers good movement and pressing (also debatable). Then there was watching us play hoofball to Fellaini which worked maybe 5 times in his however many seasons he was here. I remember chasing games when Sir Alex would throw on every striker he had on the bench, out wingers to fullback to put on another winger. We didn’t play hoofball. Again he was immune to criticism because he played his heart out.
What I do blame the fans for is accepting mediocrity in a lot of ways. It’s infuriating to watch fans destroy Pogba for missing a few passes when we have useless players like Lingard who do nothing but “he plays for the shirt” who gets a pass because he’s a good squad player (he isn’t) and offers good movement and pressing (also debatable). Then there was watching us play hoofball to Fellaini which worked maybe 5 times in his however many seasons he was here. I remember chasing games when Sir Alex would throw on every striker he had on the bench, out wingers to fullback to put on another winger. We didn’t play hoofball. Again he was immune to criticism because he played his heart out.
I respect your attitude but you have to ask yourself if the team has given a positive response to your backing.
Very good point. A simple answer over the past 6 or 7 seasons it's a huge no . My son goes with me he's under 12 and this is his 4th straight season attending. Honestly no BS he has said to me a few times over them years do we have to go next week ? Woodward and the Parasites are killing our club
Well that's the point. They can focus on winning the league b/c CL football is a given every season. In England you have 6 teams for 4 CL spots. Even Man City for all their billions of pounds spent were only 3 points off 5th in 2016-17. The top levels of English football are simply more competitive than other leagues.
The little shit, i'd have put him up for adoption the first time he said that
Wow, I thought this post was going to go in a completely different direction. My first thought from reading the title was that it isn’t entirely our fault, but we, as fans, haven’t done all we can to support the team. Looking for things to complain about isn’t the kind of support they need.
Well they call themselves supporters for a reason. If they are in the stadium they support the team. I'm sure a lot of them voice their displeasure about the state of our club on here or twitter as well but as soon as the game starts they are supporting and not booing which I think is totally fine. I just wish we could have protests against Woodward and the Glazers before the game starts. This way they could still do their "job" in the stadium but also show they really don't like how our club is run into the ground by incompetent idiots.
Is it time to bring back the green and gold campaign?
The fact is we are now no longer a team that challenges for the league. We've degenerated into the clubs that were perennially outside the challengers like arsenal and before then spurs and Liverpool. Remarkably though we are still one of the most commercially successful clubs so there must be some hope for our future.
Its frustrating to see the decline especially as its been down to poor running of the club but sport has its ups and downs and I'll continue to enjoy supporting the club albeit in our role as a much less dominant player domestically and in Europe.
The only hope we have now is that Ole Guardiola actually says feck this for a laugh, I'm going to gamble on the young ones.
Its frustrating to see the decline especially as its been down to poor running of the club but sport has its ups and downs and I'll continue to enjoy supporting the club albeit in our role as a much less dominant player domestically and in Europe.
The only hope we have now is that Ole Guardiola actually says feck this for a laugh, I'm going to gamble on the young ones.
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Over the last 6 years we've won 3 trophies and have brought Galácticos players for Galácticos prices. Yes United have made plenty mistake(Not sure what supporters were expecting since the club did lose the greatest club manager of all time)but there is no guaranteed winning strategy in football. Even during this shite spell United fans have experienced more highs than the vast majority of football fans will ever seen(As a Irish man I'm still buzzing off Robbie Brady goal against Italy in 2016).
United don't have a right to win trophies. The reason we've won for the past 20 odd years was because we have the greatest manager of all time(United tend to only really win the big titles when manager by all time great Scots), now thats gone and impossible to recreate. The fact is we have now a young team with tons of potential and very inexperienced manager who is a United legend. Now it could be successful or it completely fail but being 3 games into the season mean its impossible to know and no amount twitter hash tags, fan cam meltdowns and well turing this forum into shite will get anyone closer to knowing the outcome.
Plus the alternative these ''fans'' are talking about to the Glazers is being owned by some Saudi royalty - Why isn't football as easy as Fifa career mode.
Your post is fair enough . Even though we don't have a divine rights to trophy, we have the right as the one of the richest clubs in the world not to be completely useless and ambitionless since Fergie retried. This is on the owners since for them the club is nothing but an economic investment. Priorities issues...
The Glazers wont care whilst the money keeps piling in. I keep seeing all these Man Utd fans at the games on TV, & talking on FanCams complaining about how we are doing & the problems at the club, at the same time wearing all the new kits. I salute their loyalty to the club, but the problems is whilst them & millions of others around the world are buying all the fan merchandise the owners will be laughing their heads of as the money keeps flooding in. Only thing they will notice is if they are hit financially.
What could such protests hope to achieve? If you want a protest to gain widespread support, it needs to have achievable aims.
As fan protests go, Green & Gold attracted more media attention than most, but lost momentum because once The Red Knights bid failed, there were no credible alternative new owners who could afford the asking price. Since then, the club's valuation has risen still further, putting it beyond the reach of all but the richest of billionaires.
Whilst participating in a protest might make some fans feel better about themselves, it's difficult to see how it might result in meaningful change as to how the club is run.
As fan protests go, Green & Gold attracted more media attention than most, but lost momentum because once The Red Knights bid failed, there were no credible alternative new owners who could afford the asking price. Since then, the club's valuation has risen still further, putting it beyond the reach of all but the richest of billionaires.
Whilst participating in a protest might make some fans feel better about themselves, it's difficult to see how it might result in meaningful change as to how the club is run.
I nearly did when he was about 9 and he said daddy do you think I could get a man city top as well hahaThe little shit, i'd have put him up for adoption the first time he said that
I don't think we asked the club to not strengthen anything bar our defense this summer.
"Are we, the fans, to blame for what's happening?"
Everyone who attends matches and watches the games on TV are to blame for the owners seeing profit in the club. We're all paying the wages of these players and staff through TV subscriptions and ticketfees.
No amount of fans wearing the colors of old protesting at Old Trafford during a match is going to make any sort of difference. You've already given them the money, they don't care what you do while you're there as long as you don't interrupt what's happening on the pitch.
Everyone who attends matches and watches the games on TV are to blame for the owners seeing profit in the club. We're all paying the wages of these players and staff through TV subscriptions and ticketfees.
No amount of fans wearing the colors of old protesting at Old Trafford during a match is going to make any sort of difference. You've already given them the money, they don't care what you do while you're there as long as you don't interrupt what's happening on the pitch.
100% this, well said
We havn't really bought Galacticos in their prime. Mata was a chelsea reject, Di Maria was a Madrid reject who wanted to play for PSG, Falcao was heavily injured, Sweini was past it, Lukkaku is not a galactico, Sanchez was past it, Ibra was 35. The only galactico we've bought in his prime years is Pogba and I would say that he was worth it.
Bad enough, but at least he didn't ask for a Liverpool shirt
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Not sure a talented but raw youngster is strengthening a side that lost its second best midfielder and top scorer.
I think you cannot say that unless you know for sure it's the same set of fans who had both views and there is no way to know for sure.
This, sadly
You're overstating their importance and impact.
The first hardly played the last few matches so we did without him anyway, and when I did see him play he was outplayed every time.
The second is hardly a loss.
Strengthening the side was the job of Woody and Ole. It isn't bemoaning players who didn't, at the end of the day, want to be here anyway
I could see 4 or 5 threads questioning Ole but I no longer see the Glazersout thread and even the Woodward Out thread has taken a backseat. Funny enough every summer the Glazer out bandwagon and Woodward Out bandwagon are in full flow but the moment season starts it's all the manager. Trust me this is not the first summer I am seeing and this definitely won't be the last summer.
I don't disagree with that but then again there are millions of United fans worldwide and thousands on the caf. Unless you are sure that a large proportions of the same fans hold the same views, I think it's harsh.
You just summed up exactly what I’ve been trying to say much better than I could say it. I’ll shut up now.
Have we ?
We've tried a million difference playing style, brought in million different managers and literally spent hundreds of millions on players. We've tried and it hasn't really worked(Again we've won 3 trophies since Fergie left). I hate the Glazers just as much as anyone else but if the answer to them is getting in a different wealthily billionaire so we can spend more money buying players(Rather than - fan ownership or even cheaper tickets ?)then its position I can't take seriously.
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Here is my view on this and it is slightly controversial: the fans did organise a protest, it was in early 2010 - 30,000 green and gold scarves were sold within like 2 weeks and were brandished at matches along with chants criticising the American ownership and the direction the club was going in. The thing was, at the time Utd. were reigning champions and Sir Alex was still in charge - the protest would therefore have been difficult/confusing for some to back, because if you dig deeper, what had led to the American take-over? In-effect, to protest at the Glazers was to protest against the greatest manager the club has ever known, who continued to bring success even when the under-investment on the pitch had begun, in the last few years of his tenure.
This has continued to the present (although I did read a post in another thread at the weekend, mentioning a certain racehorse & a few years ago that would have probably been redacted). Even after the Moyes debacle, Sir Alex was mainly immune from criticism (even though he was a key factor in that appointment) and whilst he continues to go to the matches and be a key elder statesman at Old Trafford, the fans will not rise up en masse.
Finally - and this is the controversial bit - I wonder how many actual fans who go to Old Trafford on a match day are really aware of the events of over a dozen years ago? Isn't there an issue with a 'prawn sandwich brigade' who are a) not aware of why Utd. are where they are now and b) dare not criticse the 1986-2013 manager and c) are just gutted that the 2 standout teams in the current Premier - are the holders of the Champions league and the current premiership. Furthermore, bizarrely, these teams are rivals across the town and the arch enemy from history (the whole manc/scouse thing) and who will both probably finish 15-20 points ahead of third, let alone Manchester Utd.
Oh YES and I am not talking about a Europa cup where we beat an 'underage' Ajax team in the final or the odd FA Cup under Van Gaal.
We finished 2nd behind City in Jose's 2nd season and needed to push for the title but all we did was add Fred and Dalot. Even this summer, we know all we needed to compete for the title but only added AWB and Maguire alongside a teenager( Danny James). Does that show enough ambitions for a club of our stature who keeps on harping about being the biggest in the world?
The Glazers are not and will never be lovers of the football side of this club. They exist in our space only for the money. Look at Barca for instance, the owners are interested in the football club and that us why you see them buying the very best players and sprinkle a youth player or two alongside them to learn from the stars .Suarez, Griezman, Dembele, Coutinho, Neymar also seems to be in the pipeline as well. Madrid had a poor season by their own standards and are about to finish the transfer window having added Jovic, Hazard, Militao and Ferland Mendy. That is what ambitious clubs do.
I am not by any means suggesting the galactico policy is the best way to go but one thing that is undeniable to every Tom, Dick and Harry is the ambitious nature of those clubs; You can't fault them for not trying. They want to be the best, they are interested in making their club win the major trophies while you have United on the other hand trotting out lines and hiding their willingness to return to the fold of the best teams with comments like 'Eriksen and Dybala's heart are not 100% with us and would rather play abroad, British core, young and hungry, the fans must be patient as we are in transition'. etc. All of those comments are to hoodwink, placate certain sections of the fans from facing the reality that these set of owners will never make us return to the top of the game and you can quote me on that.
Yeah this is sort of my point. To literally 99% of football fans this post is just someone whining that their billionaire yacht didn't win the race against the other billionaires. Its doesn't matter who we beat in the final of the Europa Cup its a trophy most football teams will never win and the same goes for the FA & League Cup. If supporters are going to dismiss actual trophies then I'm not sure football is the sport for them. And this isn't me saying - don't complain and never be unhappy but that a large amount of United have to accept that
1)United time under Fergie was once in a generation. The style of play, the last minute wins, the endless trophies, the class of 92 etc etc. It will most likely never happen again. There seem to have not being a acknowledgement that the Fergie era was brilliant, that weren't we very lucky to have witness it.
2)The recent unsuccessful years really haven't been that bad. We can moan all we want(And boy have we)but lets being honest, there been a decent amount of highlights.
The sad thing is these United fans if they had any sense should be loving United at the moment. We've come off the back of 20 odd years of success to become one of (If not the biggest)footballing team on the planet. And ok the last few years have been more than bumpy but theres was at least a couple of trophies(I know everyone hates him now but lingard, a United youth player scoring a belter to win the FA Cup was fecking brilliant and was up there will the best of the later Fergie years). And now we've got a United legend as manager, a team with something of a play style, just signed England best defender and a ton of promising youth players.
And yet here we are complaining because we didn't sign player x(is again going down the why isn't real life like Fifa career mode.) and lost game in week 3 of the season. At a certain point the people complain just want to be miserable, they actively want to hate football at the moment. That they will dismiss anything that isn't a PL title win or CL in order to continue to be miserable, which ok whatever but they are filling up this website with shite.
As for the rest Barca & Real aren't owned by one single person right ? Sort of goes back to wanting something like fan ownership.
Fans were so incensed another break-off football team was formed! Fans who remained have been vocal. There was the Green and Gold campaign, and there's been periods of anti-Glazer chants. The problem is that these things fade away, partly as a result of what happens when nothing happens? Which it most likely won't, based on protests. The momentum drops out of it. A lot of fans probably aren't bothered, or kid themselves that because we did well those first Glazer years under Sir Alex that it's not down to them (I said at the time, and stick by it that I think we may have won that extra European Cup under Sir Alex if it hadn't been for the Glazers), or even that we achieved what we did DESPITE the Glazers. Also for a lot of United fans it's only an issue when United are struggling.
It's come up before, but what can you do, as a fan? I've sung the chants, put LUHG stickers around the place, talked about it a lot, worn the Green/Gold, unfollowed United on social media, but I'm a season ticket holder so I go to the games. There's the options to boycott, which is something season ticket holders could do. That would be a gesture.
I love the team & support United whatever, that loyalty is separate to the owners of the club. Our decline is down to the owners and the lack of direction they've overseen. End of.
When you see stuff like this, I really hate some of our fans at times...
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No evidence to say it is a Utd fan.
Can't you guys tell it's been photoshopped?
Well I don't know, I'm not his agent, but he's an elite manager and is therefore incredibly picky about jobs he takes, so unless there's a vacancy within a very select pool of elite clubs then he won't be hired. You could have counted Juventus but they appear to be preparing for Guardiola, so within the context of a manager's career span I'd say you need to wait another 2 years before you can use Mourinho's unemployment to make your point.
They may have helped, Maguire for instance certainly seems to have improved you this season. And is 95+ points a fair barometer for any manager? What manager would realistically be able to achieve this assuming you can't directly poach Guardiola or Klopp?
Ultimately 2017-2018 was your best post-Ferguson season, so for fans to start turning on Mourinho and giving Woodward additional license to pull his backing during the summer proceeding was bizarre to see.
Good post.
Some fans have a win-at-all-costs mentality. They love winning more than they love the club. They also love complaining about not winning more than they love the club. What's the point of "supporting" the team if you don't enjoy the actual supporting, unless we're winning? Because that's not support, it's entitlement. Not saying you have to be happy all the time and never critical, but there's an extreme lack of balance with the modern fan.
A dip post-Ferguson was inevitable and we are yet to even have:
I’m not saying I have lowered my expectations, but we as a fanbase were simply spoilt under Ferguson and it was inevitable we would have a rough few years. Yet we still haven’t entered the absolute abyss our rivals have endured in very recent times. It was only 3 years ago Liverpool were finishing below West Ham.
Things change quickly in Football. We have no divine right to win things and for me, people need to stop being so childish and start accepting that and being patient with the management and players. Eventually we will be back, as I said a 6 year drought for United being a crisis tells you a lot. 2nd is unacceptable at this club. Imagine what it's been like for Pool fans still waiting nearly three decades.
- More than 1 season in a row outside the CL (Liverpool had 4 2010-2014, Arsenal are currently on 3)
- More than a 3 year trophy drought (Arsenal went 9, Liverpool went 6, Spurs are currently on 11) – We have won 3 trophies in 6 years
- A major league title drought (Arsenal currently on 15 years, Liverpool currently on 29 years and Spurs currently on 58 years)
I’m not saying I have lowered my expectations, but we as a fanbase were simply spoilt under Ferguson and it was inevitable we would have a rough few years. Yet we still haven’t entered the absolute abyss our rivals have endured in very recent times. It was only 3 years ago Liverpool were finishing below West Ham.
Things change quickly in Football. We have no divine right to win things and for me, people need to stop being so childish and start accepting that and being patient with the management and players. Eventually we will be back, as I said a 6 year drought for United being a crisis tells you a lot. 2nd is unacceptable at this club. Imagine what it's been like for Pool fans still waiting nearly three decades.