Only Di Maria can really defend there. Europeans can line up a lot of attacking players because everybody can defend. Everytime Argentina or Brazil tried to do that in the last decades it was awful.
Argentina NT
- Thread starter Infordin
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Defensive organisation can be taught, attacking brilliance cannot. Argentina can be a very effective counter attacking team, like they were in 2014 where their defence was so good and they kept on winning by small margins.
Romero, Zabaleta, Garay, Otamendi, Rojo, Mascherano, Biglia, Perez, Lavezzi, Messi, Higuain
That's Argentina's starting XI in the '14 final. They bossed the game against Germany until extra time, where the germans just had more left in the tank
You can't tell me those players were better than Armani, Mercado/Salvio, Otamendi, Rojo, Tagliafico, Banega, Perez/Masche/Biglia, Di Maria, Messi, Dybala/Higuain, Aguero
Don't come telling me about age, the only players still on the team that are clearly worse now due to age are Masche and Biglia. They now have Aguero fit, Higuain is much better than 4 years ago, Dybala is better than Lavezzi, their CBs are better, their fullbacks are no worse, and they have their choice of Banega or Lo Celso in midfield, and Sampaoli left Pizarro, Ascacibar and Paredes at home
Individually, no matter how you look at it, they should be one of the best teams around. Collectively their defence and midfield could drag them down a bit, but there's still no way they should have trouble getting out of a group with Iceland and Nigeria, and they should not lose 3-0 to Croatia(even if the result is somewhat inflated. That wasn't a 3-0 game)
That's Argentina's starting XI in the '14 final. They bossed the game against Germany until extra time, where the germans just had more left in the tank
You can't tell me those players were better than Armani, Mercado/Salvio, Otamendi, Rojo, Tagliafico, Banega, Perez/Masche/Biglia, Di Maria, Messi, Dybala/Higuain, Aguero
Don't come telling me about age, the only players still on the team that are clearly worse now due to age are Masche and Biglia. They now have Aguero fit, Higuain is much better than 4 years ago, Dybala is better than Lavezzi, their CBs are better, their fullbacks are no worse, and they have their choice of Banega or Lo Celso in midfield, and Sampaoli left Pizarro, Ascacibar and Paredes at home
Individually, no matter how you look at it, they should be one of the best teams around. Collectively their defence and midfield could drag them down a bit, but there's still no way they should have trouble getting out of a group with Iceland and Nigeria, and they should not lose 3-0 to Croatia(even if the result is somewhat inflated. That wasn't a 3-0 game)
2014 version of Mascherano would be the best DM in Russia 2018 though. Midfield was more balanced in 2014. Especially when they had Masch/Biglia and Di Maria in the pitch. Full backs were better in 2014 imo. Dont you agree Rojo was one of their best players in the final?
Yes, but Rojo is still Rojo. He played better because the whole team did. Masche was amazing, sure, but overall they should still be a solid, good defensive team. And if you look at their two games si far, it's not like they were dominated and carved up at will. Their problem is still the same as always: they play at a glacial pace and have zero ideas beyond giving the ball to Messi and pray. And that should not be the case, it never should have with the quality they have around him
And this time around they look even more disjointed and devoid of ideas than ever. Worse, Messi and the other WC forwards aren't stepping up to bail them out, in part because a number of them have been sitting on the bench. They're trying to play a bit faster, only they rarely figure out how to do it.
This team will never get the best out Messi. They should stop trying. Getting 50% of Messi but 100% of Dybala and Aguero is still better than whatever they're getting right now
That show is disgusting and filled with clowns who pretend to be journalists
If we get out in the first round, I think he'll quit
Planification
I don't plan anything. Everything pops up un my head when it has to. It comes naturally in the right moment. I hate planification. If I make a plan for something, I turn myself into an office worker. I'm the same from the 1991's Alumni team. Football can't be studied; it just can be felt and lived. I start from there. I'm from tjhe street; it's impossible to deny that.
From Sampaoli's autobiography. That guy is our manager.
Planification
I don't plan anything. Everything pops up un my head when it has to. It comes naturally in the right moment. I hate planification. If I make a plan for something, I turn myself into an office worker. I'm the same from the 1991's Alumni team. Football can't be studied; it just can be felt and lived. I start from there. I'm from tjhe street; it's impossible to deny that.
From Sampaoli's autobiography. That guy is our manager.
Individual
Also this guy.
I must admit I'm suprised at the amount of people who are confident about Argentina's chances of progesssion. That team looks absolutely shot and the Nigerians look more than capable of taking advantage of this.
They need to find a balance in the team. Far to open so far and lopsided going forward. They don’t have the midfield players to hold the ball and play like Barcelona do for Messi. They have mountains of great strikers and a very average defence and goalkeeper.
For me they need to setup on the counter attack and they have a lot of players who are perfect for this, (Simeone would be the perfect manager for them now I think)
To do this they need to completely change Messi's position. He needs to play in a similar position to Griezmann at Ateltico, or they need to drop him.
They need to put out an effective and balanced 11, not just pick Messi in CM/AM free roll as he’s the superstar in the squad.
If they don’t make massive changes I can see them losing or drawing with Nigeria and on the first flight home.
For me they need to setup on the counter attack and they have a lot of players who are perfect for this, (Simeone would be the perfect manager for them now I think)
To do this they need to completely change Messi's position. He needs to play in a similar position to Griezmann at Ateltico, or they need to drop him.
They need to put out an effective and balanced 11, not just pick Messi in CM/AM free roll as he’s the superstar in the squad.
If they don’t make massive changes I can see them losing or drawing with Nigeria and on the first flight home.
I would think Garay is better than any centre back they have now, Romero albeit not particuarly good is better than Caballero (I haven't seen Armani before), Zabaleta was a really good right back while Salvio is an average winger and, as you say, Mascherano and Biglia have declined due to age and I would suggest that Di Maria has as well.
That being said it is absurd that they can't get a player as talented as Dybala in this team so if he and Banega were to come in then they would still be a very flawed side who shouldn't be able to match France but they would at least have more tempo and quality.
Nigeria looked pretty poor in 3 of the 4 halves of football they've played so far, even Iceland created enough to score 2 or 3. Argentina lost 3-0 to Croatia but that wasn't a 3-0 game, Argentina had the best opportunities until the 1-0 happened.
It's just a matter of if they can get themselves back together now, if they play normally and Sampaoli actually plays their best players they should win.
Apparently Sampaoli is only the Argentina coach by name. Mascherano makes all the decisions.
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Be interesting to see. Hope it's true. He's an experienced egg - and knows the players more than sampaoli probably.
this rulesWhy Mascherano??
Because he probably picks who Messi wants picked, but Messi wont be blamed if they go out
Mascherano is the real leder and captain. And I think he's the one who understands football better in terms of tactics.
I think he'll be a hell of a manager.
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They are a mess. Sampaoli must feel like an idiot
Holy crap. This sounds too weird to be real.
Oh Argentina
This could be an organizational management case study in failure.
They’ve wasted more talent than most teams in the tournament will ever have. Lopsided squad with some real gaps because of a long slow decline quality of players coming through. The brilliant attacking quality only masks so much of that. They have the overall quality to be an elite team still, but more dependent on cohesion and tactics than has been the case for a while.
Coming apart dooms them. This has been a long time coming, though. Players all abroad, poorly run FA, etc have erroded the team along the very seams that are tearing.
They’ve wasted more talent than most teams in the tournament will ever have. Lopsided squad with some real gaps because of a long slow decline quality of players coming through. The brilliant attacking quality only masks so much of that. They have the overall quality to be an elite team still, but more dependent on cohesion and tactics than has been the case for a while.
Coming apart dooms them. This has been a long time coming, though. Players all abroad, poorly run FA, etc have erroded the team along the very seams that are tearing.
That Mascherano thing can't be actually true though, will Sampaoli just go to the match and sit on the bench doing nothing? What the hell?
Its probably some translation error. Sampaoli is the manager but the players dont take him seriously anymore and follow the leaders in the team.
tbf, many great ideas were ridiculed at first.
I'm surprised that people are surprised by their trash performance. They barely qualified for the WC ffs. They are trash. You can't expect something to happen now that didn't happen in all their qualifying games, this isn't FIFA...
Shades of France under Domenech in 2010. When's Evra going to be leading the revolt? 
I was watching in youtube and come to post the same thing. Holy shiet you're the craziest people ever
Its true. Its not an error in the teanslation. Its a coup d'etat.
Argentina, the gift that keeps giving.
Well, the principal news site with the best connections is saying that none of that is true at all.
And I know that channel and show very well (tyc sports) to tell you that is possible all of these news are bollocks.
So are you saying Tyc is not reliable?
Don't understand why he dosen't just wear a tracksuit as he's done for the other 500 games he's had as a manager.
How much space is Nigeria giving Messi then?
I just don't think a team with midfield of Ndidi and Mikel is going to keep the ball aswell as what Croatia did with world class central midfield.
So Argentina will still have plenty of the ball and you'd assume they'll create plenty of chances as they did v Iceland as Nigeria defence is hardly watertight itself. If Messi scores the penalty Argentina beat Iceland.
Sometimes football is about feelings. I felt before Thursday Croatia would beat Argentina due to how strong their midfield was and so it was. I look at Tuesday and see a fast and unpredictable Nigeria but I don't fancy them to be strong in controlling the game with good game management which I think is needed with how the group is poised. It is particularly needed with Argentine team in permanent crisis mode.
Argentina is being Moyes'd by the players!
Why don't they give Bielsa a call for a couple of matches before he takes over at the sheep.
Why are Banega and Lo Celso not playing? Can they not move Mascherano to CB to help with build up?
Doesn’t he need a visa? That would take two working days. Who will do training during that time if all the coaching staff are not there.
Changing managers during a international tournament is just stupid. Argentine players need to grow up and realise they got a second chance against Nigeria.