Arsenal 2018/19

VorZakone

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It was just to say i really don't care about the position. All want to see is a team who look eager, united and that play clever football. Let's say a bit like Spurs.
Emery need at least 3 seasons, imo. The state of our squad is turd.
At least 3 seasons? You kidding mate?
 

JSArsenal

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That's harsh. Don't you need to give a least a couple of more transfer windows to shape the squad as he wants? Did he even have time to have much input during this summer's window?

It's going to be very tough for Arsenal to make top 4 this season, because it will likely mean having to do better than two out of Spurs, United and Chelsea.

Aa for winning the EL. Well, that's possible of course, but depends to some extent on the luck of the draw. Moreover, the more focus on the EL, the less focus on the Prem.
I'm not giving him anything. I want our board to be as ruthless as need be. If Emery fails this season AND there is no discernible improvement in the way we play, thank him for his efforts and move on to someone else. He was appointed fairly early but your second question is a fair one.

IMO, if he did have final say over transfers and he was the one who sanctioned Xhaka's new contract then he's made a rod for his own back if we fail. The goal has to be top 4 and if he thinks this squad is good enough to do so (it most likely isn't) and then fails to achieve it that is on him.

I'm not asking him to go out and buy that Savic guy from Napoli or Jerome Boateng but surely as a top class manager he's able to see that certain players in the squad just aren't up to it.

I agree on the EL

:lol: Wtf


He got like 70 mill to bring in like 5 players, how exactly is that expected to bridge the massive gap that has existed between you and the top four the last couple of seasons? Your expectations are wildly out of proportion with reality, you have a new manager trying to implement a new system on an extremely tight budget, having taken over a mess of a squad which has been comfortably behind the best teams in the country for a couple of years now. He's not Jesus, he needs at least a season before you start giving him extremely difficult to achieve objectives. Top four is so competitive and Chelsea, Spurs, United, City and Liverpool all have more settled/stronger teams than Arsenal, all under great managers too, and many of those had more money to spend than Emery, despite already having better players to work with!

I think you need to see a progression in your playstyle over the course of the season and see an improvement in the bigger fixtures where recently you've been completely uncompetitive, and that should be the expectation. He hasn't been handed the budget to expect miracles or a complete turnaround, and like has already been stated it took Guardiola a season to get City firing and he had hundreds of millions at his disposal and a world class team, albeit one with several key deficiencies but still clearly a better side than Emery has at his disposal. A decent challenge in the Europa League may be expected, but it's a cup competition and since it now gives you a CL spot is far more competitive than it used to be, what if a team like Atletico drop down again and Arsenal face them? I don't think it's reasonable to expect anything in cup competitions where the draw is so key to how a team may do. If Arsenal get a draw like United had the year they won the competition, then yes Emery should be expected to beat all of those teams, but it's not likely you'll get that.

Do you honestly think Emery has a team available that should be 'expected' to make the top four?
The reality is, I don't think we can afford to be out of the top 4 much longer. Kroenke won't put his hands in his pocket so we can buy our way back in and the longer we're out of it the less attractive we are. This isn't about how difficult it is or how far away we have been, achieving top 4 is something the club has to do right now or we risk a long time in the wilderness.

Progression in style and improvement in the way we play are secondary to the top 4 IMO. I'm not asking Emery to win the league which was Guardiola's requirement, just finish in the top 4.

For every Guardiola and Klopp who were given time, there exists the likes of Di Matteo, Scolari, Moyes, Rodgers and Dalglish who were all sacked the minute it was obvious to all involved that things weren't going right. Moyes wasn't even given an entire season. No I am not comparing Emery to Moyes in any way, shape or form, I think he is a good manager.

It is very early days but I am very much against giving Emery time just for the sake of doing so if there is no improvement in our league finish and cup performances.

As for your last question, again it depends. We will never know but if this team was forced on Emery and he wanted to replace the likes of Mustafi and Xhaka I might have pause. However if he decided that this team is good enough in his view to make the top 4 (If the board members told him when he was hired that it's okay if he finishes fifth or sixth I would be very surprised) and the usual suspects perform badly, let us down as usual and we finish far below the top 4. That is on him.


Do I think this team is good enough to make top 4? It depends on who plays and our injury situation but yes.
 

Lash

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It was just to say i really don't care about the position. All want to see is a team who look eager, united and that play clever football. Let's say a bit like Spurs.
Emery need at least 3 seasons, imo. The state of our squad is turd.
Yeah, I think most people can see a direction with his play and will allow a bit of sway in league position this season - unless you don’t improve from now, which is highly unlikely. The only thing I think he couldn’t survive, is if he kept playing the legacy players that people get the hump with.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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If you can't afford to be out of the top four much longer, Kroenke should have invested far more money in to your squad. You can't expect your new manager to work miracles and it's not going to help if you fire a manager every season because he won't live up to the unrealistic expectations of finishing top four in a league with teams spending more than you, who are more settled, and already have better players. Guardiola had a far better team at his disposal than Emery, and much more money.

I agree you don't give the manager time for the sake of it. With a manager like Moyes or Di Matteo you could see there was no improvement in the performances, no real progression, so they were rightfully sacked. If your performances improve and you can see his methods and ideas being implemented then he deserves to stay, you can't base whether or not to sack him on extremely high expectations of finishing top four. You say 'just finish in the top four' when objectively speaking you have at least four teams in Spurs, City, United and Liverpool who have far more settled teams, and then you have Chelsea. You should see improvements, but in his first season it's not helpful to demand a finish which is unlikely given the strength of your team.

If the board demanded top four and then only gave him 70m to spend across like 5 players, then they're idiots. If you make a demand like that then you fully back your manager in the transfer market, and Emery needed another few players to make that happen. We obviously totally disagree on the strength of your team, I don't think it's at all good enough to make top four right now given the fact that others are further in to their own projects. You need a complete squad turnaround and that will take 2-3 seasons.

Say Emery finishes 5th, reaches the semi-final of the Europa League and you see a genuine improvement in the performances of the team. Would you sack him for failing to make top four?
 

JSArsenal

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If you can't afford to be out of the top four much longer, Kroenke should have invested far more money in to your squad. You can't expect your new manager to work miracles and it's not going to help if you fire a manager every season because he won't live up to the unrealistic expectations of finishing top four in a league with teams spending more than you, who are more settled, and already have better players. Guardiola had a far better team at his disposal than Emery, and much more money.

I agree you don't give the manager time for the sake of it. With a manager like Moyes or Di Matteo you could see there was no improvement in the performances, no real progression, so they were rightfully sacked. If your performances improve and you can see his methods and ideas being implemented then he deserves to stay, you can't base whether or not to sack him on extremely high expectations of finishing top four. You say 'just finish in the top four' when objectively speaking you have at least four teams in Spurs, City, United and Liverpool who have far more settled teams, and then you have Chelsea. You should see improvements, but in his first season it's not helpful to demand a finish which is unlikely given the strength of your team.

If the board demanded top four and then only gave him 70m to spend across like 5 players, then they're idiots. If you make a demand like that then you fully back your manager in the transfer market, and Emery needed another few players to make that happen. We obviously totally disagree on the strength of your team, I don't think it's at all good enough to make top four right now given the fact that others are further in to their own projects. You need a complete squad turnaround and that will take 2-3 seasons.

Say Emery finishes 5th, reaches the semi-final of the Europa League and you see a genuine improvement in the performances of the team. Would you sack him for failing to make top four?
What our board should do and what they actually do are two very different things. For years fans blamed Wenger for our lack of spending, I hope now more people begin to see that it was the board who kept the purse strings closed. Wenger was given far less than 70m to spend and expected to make top 4 at the very least, every season.

Kroenke's lack of investment in the squad is the very reason we can't be out of the top 4 much longer. If he was an owner like Roman, I would be more willing to give Emery time, but I fear if we don't make it, then Emery will have even less money to spend next summer. If I remember correctly, the club's finances have already taken a hit due to being in the Europa League. We're not making a loss, its just that the profit margin has decreased.

If Emery can somehow get us into the top 4, then we will have more money to spend on improving the squad.

We finished 6th last season, I'm all for improved performances but at the same time I need something tangible to hold on to and a Europa League finish isn't it. Also to my mind, improved performances should lead to better results, in other words more wins which should, hopefully translate to a top 4 finish.

For me, there cannot have been a genuine improvement in performances if we finish 5th with 65 points, 12 points behind the top 4. To add to your final scenario. If we got 73 points, 4 points out of the top 4 and made the Europa League semi-finals. Part of me will remember that Wenger was sacked for almost the exact same position and performance in Europe but at the same time, an improved points total combined with a shortened gap to the top 4 might be acceptable. I use the word might because it would seriously depend on what he plans to do in next summer's transfer market.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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What our board should do and what they actually do are two very different things. For years fans blamed Wenger for our lack of spending, I hope now more people begin to see that it was the board who kept the purse strings closed. Wenger was given far less than 70m to spend and expected to make top 4 at the very least, every season.

Kroenke's lack of investment in the squad is the very reason we can't be out of the top 4 much longer. If he was an owner like Roman, I would be more willing to give Emery time, but I fear if we don't make it, then Emery will have even less money to spend next summer. If I remember correctly, the club's finances have already taken a hit due to being in the Europa League. We're not making a loss, its just that the profit margin has decreased.

If Emery can somehow get us into the top 4, then we will have more money to spend on improving the squad.

We finished 6th last season, I'm all for improved performances but at the same time I need something tangible to hold on to and a Europa League finish isn't it. Also to my mind, improved performances should lead to better results, in other words more wins which should, hopefully translate to a top 4 finish.

For me, there cannot have been a genuine improvement in performances if we finish 5th with 65 points, 12 points behind the top 4. To add to your final scenario. If we got 73 points, 4 points out of the top 4 and made the Europa League semi-finals. Part of me will remember that Wenger was sacked for almost the exact same position and performance in Europe but at the same time, an improved points total combined with a shortened gap to the top 4 might be acceptable. I use the word might because it would seriously depend on what he plans to do in next summer's transfer market.
It sounds like your problem is with the board, tbh. I don't think sacking the manager because of their incompetence would be very helpful, even Guardiola performed averagely with City and was under fire from every angle until he was able to fix all their problems with bags of cash. No manager can be expected to do well without any backing, if Kroenke thinks sacking the manager and giving the next one even less money is the way to fix things then he is the problem at your club.

See, you say 'somehow' like you recognise it's a big ask, especially for a manager in his first season. It really is, I'd genuinely be astounded if he managed to get you there this season, it would be seriously impressive work given the state you were in when he took over, and the fact that it's a lot of change very quickly. You can have better results and close the gap on the top four, whilst still not finishing inside of it, it's a big ask for Emery to bridge the significant points gap between you and fourth last season, with the money he's had to spend. 70 mill is nothing in this market. If he finished 5th and with a tightened gap, surely Kroenke should be looking at that progress (within a single season) and backing his new manager? If not that's unacceptable.

I don't quite agree with @Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 that it doesn't matter where you finish. Tenth for example would be sackable, that would mean you have very clearly gone backwards an unacceptable amount and Emery would be finishing in a position far below expectations. You do need to see clear signs of progress and you're right that giving managers time simply due to the principle is wrong, if it clearly is a wrong fit then time won't change that, like with Van Gaal or Moyes. However, Wenger was sacked for 'almost the same position' because he had been at the club for years and that was his team, with Emery you have a new manager, new ideas, new players .. that takes time to bed in, so you sacrifice the short term for the long term to a certain excent. With Wenger you were in limbo, with no tangible hope of long term improvement at all.
 

Ayush_reddevil

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I can't believe that Emery picked Cech over Leno to start the season, whenever he decides to bring Leno in now it would seem like dropping Cech and if Leno has issues you would struggle to go back to a keeper you already dropped . Would have made more sense to start the season with Leno
 

tentan

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I can't believe that Emery picked Cech over Leno to start the season, whenever he decides to bring Leno in now it would seem like dropping Cech and if Leno has issues you would struggle to go back to a keeper you already dropped . Would have made more sense to start the season with Leno
Agreed, Leno needs to be starting from now on, Cech is past it.
 

criticalanalysis

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Saw the game and thought this was a much different Arsenal with the same personnel.

Wouldn't put it past them to beat Chelsea imo.

The pressing, the shape and general style will good against 80% of the league. Emery just needs to pick the right combination of steel/power/pace now.

Ozil and Mhiki tried but look off out wide. Wilshire might have been a good fit in this team as well.
 

Ooh2B

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Wowser! Seems like we’re getting the nails ready for Emery already..

Let’s keep some perspective for a while before we write him off. His and some of the new players’ first premiership experience against the most expensive set of players assembled in the PL, not to mention the runaway champions from last season.

Certainly there’s a couple of concerns (Cech, Xhaka) but let’s give him and them at least a dozen games to get a feel for it.

Plus, I’m thinking/hoping come the January window that we’ll have identified any areas Emery himself wants to address and hopefully have targeted some players to come in.


No offence to Squish, Glaston et al, but I’m more comfortable looking forward from our current position than with an almost Billion pound stadium debt and a chairman who isn’t inclined to spend.

The grass, coz at least we’ve got some, is a tad on the greener side over at our place. ;)
 

Scroto Baggins

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Wowser! Seems like we’re getting the nails ready for Emery already..

Let’s keep some perspective for a while before we write him off. His and some of the new players’ first premiership experience against the most expensive set of players assembled in the PL, not to mention the runaway champions from last season.

Certainly there’s a couple of concerns (Cech, Xhaka) but let’s give him and them at least a dozen games to get a feel for it.

Plus, I’m thinking/hoping come the January window that we’ll have identified any areas Emery himself wants to address and hopefully have targeted some players to come in.


No offence to Squish, Glaston et al, but I’m more comfortable looking forward from our current position than with an almost Billion pound stadium debt and a chairman who isn’t inclined to spend.

The grass, coz at least we’ve got some, is a tad on the greener side over at our place. ;)
if Arsenal got off to a really poor start with a loss away at Chelsea then a shock loss to someone lower in the league on top of a City schlacking I thought some fans might get the knives out. Then the pressure heats up on Emery and the squad, another bad loss somewhere and it sort of snowballs. Boos around the stadium, fans on players backs, fans with Kroenke out banners because of a perceived lack of investment, etc. But new system, new players, it will take time, 3 years I think maybe is stretching it, but Arsenal have to give him some time to implement his system and tactics and get all the players familiar with each others game.

Never rated Xhaka, Cech is past it and the defence is shonky, as for Arsenal v Spurs, tough call I think I'd still put Spurs ahead of Arsenal and think they will finish higher on the table. I just feel it will take a while for the tactics, system and players to settle in and it could get rocky with a couple more early defeats. If they go away and do Chelsea I think it could really be a boost for the whole clubs, fans, coach, players from the ground up.
 

Ooh2B

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if Arsenal got off to a really poor start with a loss away at Chelsea then a shock loss to someone lower in the league on top of a City schlacking I thought some fans might get the knives out. Then the pressure heats up on Emery and the squad, another bad loss somewhere and it sort of snowballs. Boos around the stadium, fans on players backs, fans with Kroenke out banners because of a perceived lack of investment, etc. But new system, new players, it will take time, 3 years I think maybe is stretching it, but Arsenal have to give him some time to implement his system and tactics and get all the players familiar with each others game.

Never rated Xhaka, Cech is past it and the defence is shonky, as for Arsenal v Spurs, tough call I think I'd still put Spurs ahead of Arsenal and think they will finish higher on the table. I just feel it will take a while for the tactics, system and players to settle in and it could get rocky with a couple more early defeats. If they go away and do Chelsea I think it could really be a boost for the whole clubs, fans, coach, players from the ground up.
It’s certainly the worst case scenario as regards the fixtures for Emery’s first few games, and with that in mind I’m prepared to give him a little extra wiggle room.

However, considering the first couple of games and who they’re against, I would have hoped to have seen a bit more presence and composure to the defence, it’s totally where our our opponents will focus and exploit. It’s where I want to see the biggest change.

I love the whole idea of this high line, pressing, attacking ollixology, but all those forwards and midfielders would feel so much more confident in their game knowing they have an almost impenetrable wall behind them (remember the season Arsenal only shipped 17 goals?) leaving them free to maraud at the opponents rather than prepare to try and get back to save the day at the wrong end or have to chase a game.

These things (defence) considered are my biggest worry regarding us not having a complete meltdown like the one you suggest could potentially happen if we do go down to Chelsea, so without even caring about us scoring/winning against Chelsea, I just want to see a clean sheet! I want to see us build from the back and have oppo’s coming round thinking there’s no chance of scoring against this lot!

I had hoped after his bit of preseason renaissance that Chech had found his old magic, but despite some decent saves, he still doesn’t exude that commanding presence you want in a keeper, ie. DDG.. but we’re a long way from at £60/70 mil keeper signing, so I’m really hoping that of all this summers signings that Leno can be the real deal.
 
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Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87

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Saw the game and thought this was a much different Arsenal with the same personnel.

Wouldn't put it past them to beat Chelsea imo.

The pressing, the shape and general style will good against 80% of the league. Emery just needs to pick the right combination of steel/power/pace now.

Ozil and Mhiki tried but look off out wide. Wilshire might have been a good fit in this team as well.
There were moments at the end of the first half and at the start of the second where we forced City to make mistakes by pressing them to death. Surely, that's gonna be our strongest point.
 

Doctor Tornasol

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Hahaha, told ya. Quoting myself:

To be honest, I expect him to be near the sacking at some point not only this season but any season while he's coaching Arsenal, it has happened in both Valencia and Sevilla, every season looked like he was going to be sacked in the middle of it, I'm sure some people will say pretty soon "oh come on, stfu, you hair restorer seller", but then his teams make a spectacular end of the season and one just says... "SO YOU HAD IT PLANNED YOU SON OF A *****" :lol: And next season, the same. He made Valencia the 3rd team in Spain again, and won Europa League after Europa League with Sevilla. While he was in charge in both clubs, a lot of fans wanted him to leave, and the next season the new coachs hired did worse than him, showing he actually was doing something.
Just as planned :lol:

It's always the same with Emery.
 

JSArsenal

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It sounds like your problem is with the board, tbh. I don't think sacking the manager because of their incompetence would be very helpful, even Guardiola performed averagely with City and was under fire from every angle until he was able to fix all their problems with bags of cash. No manager can be expected to do well without any backing, if Kroenke thinks sacking the manager and giving the next one even less money is the way to fix things then he is the problem at your club.

See, you say 'somehow' like you recognise it's a big ask, especially for a manager in his first season. It really is, I'd genuinely be astounded if he managed to get you there this season, it would be seriously impressive work given the state you were in when he took over, and the fact that it's a lot of change very quickly. You can have better results and close the gap on the top four, whilst still not finishing inside of it, it's a big ask for Emery to bridge the significant points gap between you and fourth last season, with the money he's had to spend. 70 mill is nothing in this market. If he finished 5th and with a tightened gap, surely Kroenke should be looking at that progress (within a single season) and backing his new manager? If not that's unacceptable.

I don't quite agree with @Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 that it doesn't matter where you finish. Tenth for example would be sackable, that would mean you have very clearly gone backwards an unacceptable amount and Emery would be finishing in a position far below expectations. You do need to see clear signs of progress and you're right that giving managers time simply due to the principle is wrong, if it clearly is a wrong fit then time won't change that, like with Van Gaal or Moyes. However, Wenger was sacked for 'almost the same position' because he had been at the club for years and that was his team, with Emery you have a new manager, new ideas, new players .. that takes time to bed in, so you sacrifice the short term for the long term to a certain excent. With Wenger you were in limbo, with no tangible hope of long term improvement at all.

Emery needs to work miracles. Wenger was derided to hell and back during the past decade when he didn't receive any backing.

Here's a scenario, we finish fifth, Spurs are in the top 4 again, Chelsea win the Europa League. Three straight years of Europa League football. Do you really think Emery will have more than 70M to invest in the squad in the summer? He will have that or have to make do with less and the longer we're out of the CL, the harder it will be to get back in it.

I'm not sure if Kroenke would sack him if we finished out of the top 4, as long as the club's revenues don't decrease dramatically I don't think he cares. The club's motto should be penny wise, pound foolish. We refuse to spend big and are content with just going along to get along. However if the board pushed the boat out and made some big signings and we won a major trophy, then our finances would increase dramatically. Spend 100M and make 150M instead of spending 10M to make 20M.

Sacrificing the short term... the problem with that, is the type of squad that we've assembled Aumabeyang, Ozil, Mkhi, Lacazette, Sokratis are all in their later years. Xhaka, Ramsey and Mustafi aren't too far behind in terms of age. This squad needs to deliver soon or we could find ourselves 4 years removed from the top 4 with the likes of Ozil and Auba both gone.

I can't square our recruitment strategy in bringing in older players, who are expected to deliver right now, with building for the long term. Although on that front we'll have to wait and see what Emery's plans are for the likes of Nelson, Geundouzi, AMN and the other youngsters. Wenger in his latter years almost never played youth players and went with the tried and proven mediocre senior players. Xhaka played 38 straight games last season in the league and no one else got a look in.

Ultimately if I see improvement and we're closer to the top 4, with possibly a trophy in hand then I might begrudgingly be willing to give Emery more time.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Emery needs to work miracles. Wenger was derided to hell and back during the past decade when he didn't receive any backing.

Here's a scenario, we finish fifth, Spurs are in the top 4 again, Chelsea win the Europa League. Three straight years of Europa League football. Do you really think Emery will have more than 70M to invest in the squad in the summer? He will have that or have to make do with less and the longer we're out of the CL, the harder it will be to get back in it.

I'm not sure if Kroenke would sack him if we finished out of the top 4, as long as the club's revenues don't decrease dramatically I don't think he cares. The club's motto should be penny wise, pound foolish. We refuse to spend big and are content with just going along to get along. However if the board pushed the boat out and made some big signings and we won a major trophy, then our finances would increase dramatically. Spend 100M and make 150M instead of spending 10M to make 20M.

Sacrificing the short term... the problem with that, is the type of squad that we've assembled Aumabeyang, Ozil, Mkhi, Lacazette, Sokratis are all in their later years. Xhaka, Ramsey and Mustafi aren't too far behind in terms of age. This squad needs to deliver soon or we could find ourselves 4 years removed from the top 4 with the likes of Ozil and Auba both gone.

I can't square our recruitment strategy in bringing in older players, who are expected to deliver right now, with building for the long term. Although on that front we'll have to wait and see what Emery's plans are for the likes of Nelson, Geundouzi, AMN and the other youngsters. Wenger in his latter years almost never played youth players and went with the tried and proven mediocre senior players. Xhaka played 38 straight games last season in the league and no one else got a look in.

Ultimately if I see improvement and we're closer to the top 4, with possibly a trophy in hand then I might begrudgingly be willing to give Emery more time.

I don't get that, so because you feel Wenger was unfairly criticized you also think Emery should experience the same treatment? Seems an odd stance.

Probably not, but again I feel that's a problem with your board. If they're not going to invest when it's what you clearly need to be getting back in to the top four, then that isn't Emery's fault, it takes a manager more than a season to turn a team around, usually. 4 of the top managers in the league right now (Pochettino, Mourinho, Guardiola and Klopp) all experienced difficult first seasons in the league before pushing on. I agree the longer you're out the harder it is to get back in, but does sacking Emery make it any easier? Who else comes in to a club where he knows the board won't invest heavily yet he'll still be expected to get top four or he's out? It's not exactly enticing.

Again, your problem seems to be with the board, and I don't disagree. They should clearly be making more funds available for much needed transfers in order to get you back among the best in the league. The fact you have mentioned that you have a number of players in their later years just emphasizes how significant a job Emery has on his hands, and how he's going to need time for a rebuild. If your board weren't ready to provide time, they should have given Emery more than the pretty insignificant sum (by 2018 standards) that was made available.

That seems fair, you need to see signs of development otherwise I agree you can't just keep a manager for the sake of it. I think it's very harsh to say 'top four or bust' though, and not very helpful given the resources your manager has at his disposal, and the fact he's only just come in to the club. I totally agree with you about the dangers of being outside of the top four for a significant period of time, but again this should be a case of the board deciding to take a risk and investing heavily in order to get the reward of returning to CL football. They didn't do that, and thus can't expect Emery to turn water in to wine in such a competitive environment, where nearly everybody has more money or a better team (or both) to work with.
 

ThierryHenry14

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I think it is fair to give him 2 or 3 seasons to turn over the squad and implement his idea. He should be given time as long as he keeps the top 6 status. You can't expect big improvement right away and the other top 5 teams are very strong as well.
 

Adisa

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Emery has been told to cut the wage bill. Their owner is really something.
 

Ooh2B

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Idk if you follow the NBA at all but Kroenke made the GM of the Nuggets trade a 1st round pick (coveted cost controlled asset) to dump $20m in salary. At least the guy is consistent.
We’re a shoe in for the FFP prize.:smirk:
 

Oga on top.

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Wenger was more than willing to spend £13 million on dross like Jeffers over 12 years ago so it's always been a case of the board cutting his funds.
 

Javi

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Not sure they'd even find a better coach than Emery who would put up with the financial situation. I don't see how Gunners can stay relevant unless they somehow manage to feck off Kroenke.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Not sure they'd even find a better coach than Emery who would put up with the financial situation.
Yeah, exactly. It's all well and good saying 'If Emery can't succeed on a budget, he needs to be replaced' but with who? You aren't attracting the best managers to the club without being able to promise decent budget, and most will run a mile if they see Emery getting sacked because he wasn't able to make top four with that team. Why would they take that job? Little money to make changes combined with huge expectations which mean if you don't succeed instantly you'll be gone .. hardly an enticing prospect is it?

The best they would be able to do is go for an up and coming manager like we did with Pochettino, but even then there's huge risk involved and it's just as likely (or even more so) that you end up with an AVB. Even if you do strike lucky, even Poch took a season to get us going and if we're being entirely honest was probably fortunate the next season that a few teams just didn't perform, I don't think it was till 16/17 that we properly saw a Pochettino team. It's a massive ask for anybody to come in and instantly make that Arsenal team top four ahead of two of Chelsea, City, Spurs, Liverpool and United, and in fairness most Arsenal fans I know accept that and are willing to give Emery the time he obviously needs.
 

RedDevilCanuck

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I thought they looked ok. Let down by terrible quality from the forwards. City was clinical but didn't dominate possession and territory like last year. Ozil and mkhitaryan were wasteful at best. Otherwise I thought they were decent.
 

Ooh2B

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Yeah, exactly. It's all well and good saying 'If Emery can't succeed on a budget, he needs to be replaced' but with who? You aren't attracting the best managers to the club without being able to promise decent budget, and most will run a mile if they see Emery getting sacked because he wasn't able to make top four with that team. Why would they take that job? Little money to make changes combined with huge expectations which mean if you don't succeed instantly you'll be gone .. hardly an enticing prospect is it?

The best they would be able to do is go for an up and coming manager like we did with Pochettino, but even then there's huge risk involved and it's just as likely (or even more so) that you end up with an AVB. Even if you do strike lucky, even Poch took a season to get us going and if we're being entirely honest was probably fortunate the next season that a few teams just didn't perform, I don't think it was till 16/17 that we properly saw a Pochettino team. It's a massive ask for anybody to come in and instantly make that Arsenal team top four ahead of two of Chelsea, City, Spurs, Liverpool and United, and in fairness most Arsenal fans I know accept that and are willing to give Emery the time he obviously needs.
On that note, I would have been happy to give Arteta a go at the job. It was the right time to blood a new manager, and I think he would have even had more leeway with the fans. Anyway, that’s another argument for another day, we got what we got and in fairness he’s (Emery) proven himself with regards making things happen with a club on a budget. Probably what swung it in the selection process.

We’ll have a clearer picture of how he copes in a few months.

Fun times in North London!
 

Ooh2B

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Arteta? Jesus.


Ye wouldn’t have taken a punt then? Is that what I’m taking from that?

Fair enough, but in the context of Squishy’s post, I would have. It wasn’t like we had the likes of Pep banging down the door, and when you think back to Bruce Rioch’s successor, he was rocking up the J League when we hired him, and Georgie Graham was managing Millwall of all places before we rolled the dice on him.

Anyway, it’s a moot point, never happened, but managers gotta start somewhere, and being an understudy to Pep seems like a decent starting point.
 

Grinner

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Ye wouldn’t have taken a punt then? Is that what I’m taking from that?

Fair enough, but in the context of Squishy’s post, I would have. It wasn’t like we had the likes of Pep banging down the door, and when you think back to Bruce Rioch’s successor, he was rocking up the J League when we hired him, and Georgie Graham was managing Millwall of all places before we rolled the dice on him.

Anyway, it’s a moot point, never happened, but managers gotta start somewhere, and being an understudy to Pep seems like a decent starting point.
You're not seriously comparing Arteta's experience to Wenger's before he joined us? Arteta needs to start by managing a club with slight resources and showing that he can coach them into winning.
 

Ooh2B

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You're not seriously comparing Arteta's experience to Wenger's before he joined us? Arteta needs to start by managing a club with slight resources and showing that he can coach them into winning.
Not at all, my point as it were is that at you’ve got to start somewhere.

I wasn’t actually calling for Arteta to be given the job, what I was alluding to is that had he gotten it I would have given him a chance. I’m fully behind Emery, even though he’s never set foot in the PL and has had a few sketchy seasons behind him.

Again, we didn’t exactly have the worlds greatest pool of managers to choose from, so with that in mind he may just have been the right man at the right time, us needing to reinvent ourselves so to speak.

I understand you don’t want to entertain the thought of Arteta managing us, and that’s fine, you can rest easy, it didn’t happen. Let’s hope the guy we did hire can ultimately get us back into contention, he has every bit as much support from me as pretty much anyone, Arteta included would have had going into the job.

But let me ask you a question/s, if the club had hired him (Arteta) would you have given him your support or would you be out with the cleavers straight off the bat?
Or for example and without the benefit of hindsight, would you have been happy with the likes of Luis Van Gaal being appointed?

Besides that though, the real issue we have is at board level, doesn’t matter who’s in charge if they’re not get any support there!
 

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I think we're in for a long period of wilderness years and that Wenger will be sorely missed. Arteta would have been a joke of an appointment, whether I supported him or not is ultimately meaningless.
 

Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87

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Not sure they'd even find a better coach than Emery who would put up with the financial situation. I don't see how Gunners can stay relevant unless they somehow manage to feck off Kroenke.
This. We finally got rid of an outdated manager and got one who sounds to work well on his tactis, but we still have a greedy owner. We can only slightly improve atm.
 

The Purley King

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With the way that TV revenues are going and the almost certain increased income from ROW contracts in the next few years (even if the domestic rights stay largely flat) Kroenke may be happy with just maintaining a comfortable upper mid table club. If I was in charge and I didn't give a shit about football and it was only about the money, that is exactly what I would do.
From a pure business perspective it is far riskier to invest the substantial amount necessary to win the PL or CL (and keep Arsenal in that bracket of clubs for a few years in order to benefit from the increased sponsorship deals and worldwide appeal*) than it is to continue as he's doing, especially when the underlying value of the club keeps on increasing.

* Leicester won the league a couple of years back and they didn't receive a massive influx of sponsorship money just because sponsors knew they were unlikely to remain in contention for the coming seasons.

I would be very worried if I was an Arsenal fan. Not because Emery is shit, but because they will probably continue to underinvest in comparison to other top 6 clubs. Unless they get lucky with a Kane or an Alli (I know its not all luck that Spurs got both of these players for £5m in total - but its unusual this happens and you certainly can't rely on it happening year after year) then they won't be truly competitive again. You could argue that that they haven't been truly competitive for years now, but I don't see it changing and probably only getting worse, especially in the light of clubs like Everton and maybe even West Ham showing increased ambition.
 

Camilo

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Arsenal have nothing to lose right now. They've got a tough start to the season and are expected to lose their first two games, which is fine. Then they'll get a few games to find their feet and start tuning into the new manager. You'd be mad to expect anything other than a slow start.. And on top of that, it's not a great team. It's not bad certainly, and has some very talented players in it, but there are glaring holes in the middle.. But Emery's a good coach.

The fans and board will want to give him time. I expect the media to be on his back from next weekend however. It's best just not to read the news I find - it's all just bullshit opinion.