As a fanbase - what are we all unhappy about?

[Wumminator]

Don't come in here having a go based on thread title. I'm being serious. What unites us in our frustrations?

Ok - we all seem to dislike the Glazers and Woodward. But what specifically about them are we pissed off about?

For example is it:

a) They are not spending enough money
b) They have spent money badly

I see those two claims a lot on Twitter and they contradict each other. Fact is we've spent an absolute fortune under past managers and have a ridiculously high wage bill.

What are your concerns about Manchester United? Is there a common consensus on what we need to do to improve.

Another example is this Bruno Fernandes transfer. According to rumours we are haggling over five/ten million. This seems to upset people as it suggests we might be tightening the purse strings. But simultaneously I've read people talking about us spending too much on every player and playing a United tax.

 

[sullydnl]

Speaking for myself, it's primarily that they have spent the money badly, which is an extension of them having run the club badly generally. I mean Liverpool have become the best team in Europe without smashing everyone in the transfer market money-wise. We've spend enough to be competitive, we just haven't spent it well enough.

However within that you could point to individual cases where the money should have been spent but wasn't (perhaps as a result of us having wasted money previously). Not signing Maguire for less money a year earlier, for example. Or trying to sign Fernandes now and not last summer. Or not signing a Lukaku replacement in the summer. Or if you like going as far back as not spending what was required to get Hazard back in the day.

Essentially we've spent enough to be competitive but we haven't spent it on the right players, nor have we recognised the increased urgency/incentive/opportunity to spend at certain key moments.

 

[Wumminator]

Speaking for myself, it's primarily that they have spent the money badly, which is an extension of them having run the club badly generally. I mean Liverpool have become the best team in Europe without smashing everyone in the transfer market money-wise. We've spend enough to be competitive, we just haven't spent it well enough.

However within that you could point to individual cases where the money should have been spent but wasn't (perhaps as a result of us having wasted money previously). Not signing for less money a year earlier, for example. Or trying to sign Fernandes now and not last summer. Or not signing a Lukaku replacement in the summer.

Essentially we've spent enough to be competitive but we haven't spent it on the right players, nor have we recognised the increased urgency/incentive to spend at certain key moments.

Now I am very similar in how I feel about that. However my question now is, who do we blame for that? The Glazer's can't have picked the transfer target? Woodward would have decided to back the manager, but do we blame him or the managers who requested the money?

 

[Ekeke]

Spending poorly, managers, Woodward

We've spent plenty of money, but we've done it poorly. We've agreed to pay huge fees and the majority of them werent worth it. I'd much prefer we signed players in the £30-40 million price range and then sign more of them, rather than £50 million+ because with our track record we're going to need multiple attempts to sign players before we get a few right. We arent doing well enough to sign just a few players at expensive prices because 2/3 of them wont be worth it.

I think they've given managers too much time when they were performing poorly

I think Woodward has had enough chances with the above for us to try someone new

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Essentially, we've suffered from negligent and incompetent corporate management of the club. I don't have any issue with the level of investment in the playing squad, either through transfer fees or wages. We've consistently been at or near the top of the list of highest spending clubs since Fergie retired. The complete absence of a coherent vision and sporting strategy for the club has been terminal though, with unbelievable amounts of money wasted. In a modern football club, the manager can only ever be a component of a much larger structure - and that person should be able to be replaced relatively frequently without the need to overhaul the squad or reinvent our tactical approach.

It's not even that the money has necessarily been spent exclusively on poor players as such - though there have been plenty of poor buys (Maguire, Fellaini, Sanchez) - but that the lack of structure and long-term planning at the club has not allowed good players (Di Maria, Pogba, Depay, Lukaku, Mata, Zaha etc) to fulfil their potential and contribute to the team.

It was inevitable that we would see a significant decline losing the greatest manager in the history of the game, along with our long-term CEO, entire coaching staff and senior players more or less overnight. But the speed of decline has been precipitous, and with no end in sight.

It now needs a visionary leader to come in to the club and take consistently good approach to structural reform and player recruitment. Even with the right decisions being made each year, it will take us a minimum of 3-5 years to get back to where we should be.

 

[sullydnl]

Now I am very similar in how I feel about that. However my question now is, who do we blame for that? The Glazer's can't have picked the transfer target? Woodward would have decided to back the manager, but do we blame him or the managers who requested the money?

Hard to know from the outside who exactly picked individual targets. Even if we accept that they were the managers' choice though, Woodward is the one who appointed those managers and opted to continue with a structure whereby they were the senior-most figures with football experience in functional roles at the club.

Or if you prefer not blaming people for past mistakes, ask instead who now has the authority & responsibility to fix the problem. As is that would have to be Woodward as he determines the structure of what occurs beneath him, the managerial appointments made and the approach the club want to take to transfers (even if that approach amounts to leaving it to the manager).

Basically I think the key problems are fixable at Woodward's level, even if he isn't to blame for all of them. Whereas even if individual managers are to blame for individual decisions, I don't think they're in a position to fix all the key problems themselves.

 

[eldoherz]

We are a club so poorly run that we squandered what should have been an insurmountable position at the top of English football in under 6 years.

Our club is literally being used a giant money siphon by the Glazer's who've gotten rich off of the club with no work, no outside investment and the sheer brilliance of Alex Ferguson. We should be the richest club in the world with effectively no debt, yet here we stand massively in debt, slipping down the list of richest clubs and looking nowhere near the top of the footballing pyramid.

We've gone from top of the world to a mid table side with a really poor looking future as it stands.

 

[Neil_Buchanan]

Putting aside the obvious issues with the first team, we have become a laughing stock. We have lost a lot of the respect we had as a club under Fergie and that's not just down to performances on the pitch. We have been badly run, everyone knows that our owners have no interest in taking this club to the top , that those in positions of power at the club are mostly inept and that effects our ability to attract the talent we need to improve both on and off the pitch.

 

[clarkydaz]

the club is becoming like a political party soap opera now. Woodward forever saving his own arse, its all a façade now

 

[Red_toad]

Club is drifting.

1. Poor investment in the team, like Sanchez why did we buy him, it was obvious he’d declined and to top it give him a huge long term contract. Giving Jones a new contract, why? Feels like whoever is in charge of transfer dealings is a feckin imbecile.
2. Hiring Ole, lovely guy, United legend, but never ever going to take us back to the top. Our coaching is none existent, we’ve no style of play, other than we kinda play on the break, but can’t really defend that well and struggle to break down any kind of block.
3. Stadium is crumbling. We’re falling behind our rivals, who are investing in the bricks and mortar the club is built around.

Someone who’s making constant poor decisions, needs to be held to account and removed from the club. It’s pointless sacking yet another manager, as it won’t change a darn thing.

 

[BluesJr]

They have no idea on how to run a club. We’ve spent more than enough money so I don’t think that can be a complaint. Terrible manager choices and a lack of implementation of a footballing structure.

 

[SecondFig]

It's neither of those. Don't get me wrong, they're definitely spending money badly (at least until Ole started, since then no real complaints with the signings) - but my issue is that the owners are draining hundreds of millions from the club, they're not investing in the stadium, they're not investing in the wider facilities, and they haven't got a clue about the football side of things.

But my main issue is that the Glazers are parasites - I don't want an owner to pump in a ton of cash a la Citeh or Chelski. I want owners who reinvest the money that the club generates, and who reinvest those funds intelligently.

 

[VP89]

Glazers are to blame for failing to embed a proper footballing structure. It's really that simple and honestly isn't rocket science.

 

[OleTheGreat]

Let's get some things on the table, there are a few things that has really got me pissed off at United. We were fine until SAF was with us because he was always the focal point and he's always get what he wanted or he would bring the hair dryer treatment to everyone. But since he's left we've desperately needed a DoF and never got one. Ed is not a proper negotiator and i'm sure the Glazers have spent a lot of money but it was on useless players like Fellaini, Schneiderlin, Sanchez, Blind, Darmian and such lot. Do you understand my point? There is a difference between signing players and signing good ones. That's my problem with them!

 

[redshaw]

There's two camps, one of a long dislike to Glazers and the board and the other is recent anger at how Ole has been hung out to dry. A lot of fans support Ole while others are pissed at the continual poor managerial appointments (Ole included) from the board who the Glazers are responsible for and the general decay of the club.

In the ground I think many are really upset at the lack of squad and are behind Ole. They want more funds for Ole but every manager the board have chosen has spent it poorly.

 

[JPRouve]

Now I am very similar in how I feel about that. However my question now is, who do we blame for that? The Glazer's can't have picked the transfer target? Woodward would have decided to back the manager, but do we blame him or the managers who requested the money?

I blame both and Woodward a little bit more. I blame both because the managers have been in charge of team building and failed to do their job properly. I blame Woodward for enabling these managers, he gave them that extended role, role that they clearly weren't qualified for and he still hasn't fixed that organizational issue. I also blame Woodward for seemingly not expecting that the managers improve the players at their disposal, this culture of deadwoodery is ridiculous and our managers probably can't believe how lucky they are to only be expected to be glorified personal shoppers.

 

[FrankDrebin]

The amount of money the club has squandered since SAF left has been nothing short of embarrassing and,frankly,rather depressing.

All that money spent and we've managed to go backwards.

 

[VP89]

Now I am very similar in how I feel about that. However my question now is, who do we blame for that? The Glazer's can't have picked the transfer target? Woodward would have decided to back the manager, but do we blame him or the managers who requested the money?

Glazers have failed to employ a specialist in the department of transfers, and you're asking who do we blame for it?

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Persistence in being incompetence specifically on managing a football club.

The structure/system/corporate governance/decisions-making, etc is so bad.

 

[DCP]

I don't dislike them. They run a good business.

There was serious mismanagement in the club on the football side of things up until the last summer of Mourinho's.

It started with the initial Herrera deal with the Spanish lawyers. We then wasted so much money when a club with better structure could have genuinely turned United in to the best footballing club in the world with the same investment. Just take the Falcao, di Maria and Sanchez investments for example.

The biggest issue is that the club's structure was torn apart when we lost Gill and Fergie together, at this point we should have appointed a new footballing director.

We've now spent a f ton of money and are having to be more frugal and lacking investment in what we need to take the club forward under the new 'footballing identity.

 

[Ødegaard]

Everything. Well, everything apart from the actual net spend.
Owners, CEO, negotiator, scouts, manager, coaches, players, value of transfers, the way transfers are done, the plans of how to progress, the way the club is portrayed even from inside. Hell, we even have hate between our incredibly divided fan-base.

The whole club is a mess and it doesn't look like it will improve in any department as things are now. It feels at the moment like the whole club is putting up a pointless charade where it's all about the owners reducing the wage-bill so they can continue to take money out of the club and keeping that up for as long as possible. The club that got most of its fan-base by being ultra-competitive has absolutely no hopes of being competitive in the foreseeable future.

Even the chance of potential new owners is a negative: Those who want anyone in will have to see the Saudis buy Newcastle, and those who don't want the Saudis or others like them owning the club can't realistically see anyone buying the club as the valuation of the club far surpasses the value it has as a business for making money and therefor any realistic buyer will be someone with a PR-incentive like the Saudis.

The club has spent a great amount of money, and talents like Rashford and McTominay are getting game-time and are doing well. Other than that nothing about or around the club signifies any sort of positives in my eyes.

 

[Spoony]

Glazers have made their money, time they move on and let someone else have a go. Club is in dire need of a restructure. - obviously.

 

[Broad Street Bullies]

Don't come in here having a go based on thread title. I'm being serious. What unites us in our frustrations?

Ok - we all seem to dislike the Glazers and Woodward. But what specifically about them are we pissed off about?

For example is it:

a) They are not spending enough money
b) They have spent money badly

I see those two claims a lot on Twitter and they contradict each other. Fact is we've spent an absolute fortune under past managers and have a ridiculously high wage bill.

What are your concerns about Manchester United? Is there a common consensus on what we need to do to improve.

Both can be true! In the years post Fergie we've spent 14 % of our turnover on players! And we also have the fourth lowest wage to turnover percentage in the league. (These are not my findings but from tweets from people with huge following I see on my TL.)

 

[ROFLUTION]

Bad decisions, lack of strategy and transparency, lack of football knowledge at board-level. Only money-men at board level. They dont even realize current strategy is bad for their wallet long-term

 

[Sirob26]

I suspect that under normal circumstances the frustration would be focused on the manager. However, in this case the manager is too popular to take the flak.

Overall though it's just a simple lack of planning. Theres no real idea what it is that we want to be so we see players being signed by one manager then being dumped by the next (eg Blind, Rom, Martial- who Jose didnt fancy, Fellaini-to an extent). This feeds into the 'money wasted' school of thought.

I'm not sure a DOF is the solution in itself. I think a more football centric board would also do this. DOF would work my point is it's not the only way to solve the problem.

Also got to be said that the football side of the structure is drifting. Medical set up doesn't seem to be good enough (see the comments from inter about Rom having diet issues) and the lack of planning has left us with a paper thin squad.

 

[Wumminator]

Just out of interest, those saying we need to invest in the ground. How many of those go to games? I think the ground is absolutely fine and I’m regularly there. Is there anyone here who goes to games who hates the ground?

 

[Ødegaard]

Just out of interest, those saying we need to invest in the ground. How many of those go to games? I think the ground is absolutely fine and I’m regularly there. Is there anyone here who goes to games who hates the ground?

The ground itself is probably fine, but these sort of things shouldn't happen:

My negative about Old Trafford is how poor space there is for your feet. My knees hurt a damn lot.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

This is what I was thinking. As a club, we've been given money to spend. We've spent £993.45million in transfer fees since 2010, which is the 5th highest behind PSG, Barcelona, Man City and Chelsea.

Now, all of those aforementioned clubs, apart from possibly Chelsea over the last coulple of years, are competing at the highest level. Winning trophies, buying superstars, etc.

Us, on the other hand, for some reason, despite spending a ridiculous amount of money on players, have got nothing to show for it. Yes, we've won a few trophies since the departure of Sir Alex, but all in all, it's quite clear recruitment hasn't been good enough. So I guess for me, the reason I'm unhappy would be the fact that we've spent money badly.

Having said that, I never thought any of the players we bought in were bad. Actually, I was optimistic about most of them. Unfortunately, very few of them were unable to replicate the type of form shown at their previous clubs.

Now to me, that's all to do with coaching and game plans. Whilst the players we bring in should improve the team, without good quality coaching and a solid game plan, players often get lost in a system, and I feel this happened with Moyes, Mourinho and now Ole.

The only manager I felt had a plan was Van Gaal. Most, included myself, moaned about the football being boring and slow, but in hindsight, I believe with better players, he'd have mastered his system.

All in all, I think the way we've spent our money has been poor, though.

I'm lead to believe most teams now have a Director of football (DOF), who have the responsibilities of hiring and firing of managers, scouting, recruitment of players, long-term strategy, etc. A lot of fans have been calling for that. Maybe that is the way to go, because at the moment, our transfers seem to be very hit and miss.

I think if a DOF wants us to play a certain style, then regardless of what manager is in charge, then we continue to go for that type of player. All we'd be doing is bringing in a manager who fits the same philosophy. That way, that player would not have to 'adapt' to the style of play, because it is similar to that of the last one.

I think where we've gone wrong is going from possession based Van Gaal, to counter attacking Mourinho, which unfortunately leaves a very unbalanced squad which we see today under Ole.

I truly believe that things aren't as bad as people are saying. Whilst it isn't a quick fix, I feel some minor adjustments would see us challenging at all fronts again.

 

[Crustanoid]

The owners. Everything stems from there-literally every problem.

Get better owners who want to excel at football and we can fix everything else

 

[Lynty]

What are fans protesting? I haven't got a grasp of all the details so I'm struggling to understand what the Glazers and Ed have done?

Our net spend in the last 5 years has been staggering. 2nd only to city I believe. It hasn't reflected in our performance so obviously that spending is going to be reigned in.

Our recruitment has been poor. Which is easy to say in hindsight.

Ed makes poor footballing decision and needs to appoint a DoF. Which is right. But a protest to demand a DoF is strange.

The debt placed on the club? Has it really restricted our spending.

I'm not defending the Glazers or Ed, I had a conversation with a Liverpool and a Chelsea fan last night and struggled to explain why the board is the problem. They couldn't see it - and I couldn't deny the facts they presented.

I'll move my post here as nobody responded to me in the other thread.

Personally I feel like I've been blaming the board for years, when Im really not sure why. It was just fashionable.

Do I expect the Glazers and Ed to make good footballing decisions? No, that's not their area of expertise.

So we need a DoF, which is completely different to 'glazers out'.

Our recruitment has been poor in hindsight. Many fans were buzzing for Sanchez for example, but it's easy to ask the question to why he was bought now we've seen his performances.

I can't rationally reason why we are a worse run club than Chelsea for example.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Speaking for myself only, I'll use Klopp as an example. It's often said that Klopp in his first half season finished outside the top four, however, even in the midsts of that finish the average fan could easily watch the team play and identify a pattern of play. High pressing, more running, more direct balls wide to forwards, higher line, etc. Even if the results weren't there, you could see what they were working on. With Ole, I've been waiting on the same. I'd always expected a drop in performance during a transition, however, what I didn't expect was that from December 2019 to January 2020, that I couldn't tactically identify what had changed for the better, with exception to perhaps individual running stats.

 

[bosnian_red]

They dont know how to run sports teams. Look at how the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have declined under their ownership. They treat them as big commercial businesses but dont do what's necessary to rebuild clubs and improve them. They won't implement the proper structure. They dont invest on time with what's needed, they dont invest the extent of what's needed, etc. Every purchase is delayed. We needed a CB in 2018, got one in 2019. Needed a midfielder in 2019, probably will get one in 2020. Always playing catch up.

We need a massive summer. And if it fails, you try again. You dont delay things constantly, because new problems always turn up. You need to do what is needed in that off season to get yourself to a good level, and then in later windows keep investing to improve. The current ownership seems to see it as a invest the bare minimum to get us competitive again, and then tighten the purse. You're never going to improve like that and we'll always be a step behind.

 

[FootyGirl88]

This is what im unhappy about:

A) Lack of long term planning
B) No structure at the club
C) Poor recruitment
D) Lack of identity/Philosophy

 

[Buster15]

Club is drifting.

1. Poor investment in the team, like Sanchez why did we buy him, it was obvious he’d declined and to top it give him a huge long term contract. Giving Jones a new contract, why? Feels like whoever is in charge of transfer dealings is a feckin imbecile.
2. Hiring Ole, lovely guy, United legend, but never ever going to take us back to the top. Our coaching is none existent, we’ve no style of play, other than we kinda play on the break, but can’t really defend that well and struggle to break down any kind of block.
3. Stadium is crumbling. We’re falling behind our rivals, who are investing in the bricks and mortar the club is built around.

Someone who’s making constant poor decisions, needs to be held to account and removed from the club. It’s pointless sacking yet another manager, as it won’t change a darn thing.

Pretty much how I see it.
Essentially nothing is moving forward. Nothing is improving.
Nothing is changing to make that improvent.
We are still going backward at every level.

It is not all about money.
It is more about attitude and wanting to be the best. Wanting to be the real Manchester United; or is this the real Manchester United.
Gawd. I hope not.
We have to be better than this abysmal state.

 

[tenpoless]

The resources We have spent in the last 6 years+ weren't even effective let alone efficient. We're a huge club but clueless. That's why. If this keeps going, ManUnited will get destroyed. Lingering around the mid or even bottom of PL table. Surely We don't want that. The amount of work that has been put into this club (mainly by Sir Alex) and We're just going let it ruin just because some clueless bastards refusing to pull their head out of their arses and realize They aren't good enough for the club.

Good owners and CEO don't have to know about the details of managing players or getting them to perform. But surely They must have a big picture and prepare the direction for the club? that includes knowing what They're going to get when They hire a manager based on their past history. They should have known Van Gaal would have been a massive risk due to his possession football, They should have known Mourinho need a full backing for short term gains and most likely thats all We're gonna get from him, They should have not appointed Ole only because of winning streak, the reality was We hired a failed Cardiff manager and of course there's big chance We would even struggle for top 4, which is what's happening. No direction. Wrong money management. The board don't know when to sack Ed Woodward.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

The fundamental problem is that the goal of this club is not to win, play good football or serve the needs of the fans. The goal of the club is to make money.

Studies regarding well-performing businesses over time(think it was among fortune 500 companies over 10-15 years ) have shown that if the goal or overall aim of the company is short term profit, cutting cost etc then after some years most businesses start to fail. Those that were able to perform financially over a number of years mainly focused on selling or delivering quality services and products. And profits, increased revenue and stability were an effect of delivering quality to the customers...7

Everything the club does is based on monetary aspects, hence they have accountants and financially educated and experienced peoples in important positions. The direct opposite is Liverpool. They focus on football as the core element of their business and that revenue and increased profits will be an effect of performing on the pitch...

 

[Chairman Steve]

Woodward for me.

Hires the wrong managers
Waits forever to sack them
Hired our current one on a whim
Gives mediocre players huge contracts
Takes forever to get new players in
Media spin with lies and false hopes (Where’s that DoF? Where’s those signings?)
Bizarre bipolar behaviour with managers (gives Jose new contract then doesn’t back him in transfer market)
Doesn’t hire people to run football operations and thinks he can do it himself seemingly

In an ideal world for myself, we have a DoF supported with other technical directors who maintain an autonomy within the team such buying players, selling players and setting basic philosophies, and the manager is essentially head coach who goes when the results go down... therefore we don’t have to reinvent the wheel every time we sack a manager. This is something we should have addressed the moment Sir Alex left. Right now it feels like the owners and the board are determined to fit anyone into the Sir Alex shaped hole that nobody can fill. Ole Gunnar Solskjær is not going to be Sir Alex Ferguson just because you give him time with no plausible reasons as to why they should stay, aside from philosophical emotional trite like “United way” and “Plays youngsters”

 

[Hawks2008]

The lack of ambition

The poor quality of personnel

I am drunk so will not elaborate at this time.

 

[fps]

The squad and the lack of success achieved by the squad. If the team starts winning, every problem will be ignored, but this squad will not start winning on the scale expected.

 

[Wumminator]

I’m honestly baffled at how many people believe the “they want to make money not win trophies” argument. It is completely nonsensical.

If we are going to make money we need to be winning trophies. Everyone is aware of this. It is literally imperative to making money.