That thing some people do where they <checks notes> pretend to check notes is a bit silly to me. Why are you making notes about a thread on the caf. Seems like there are nore fruitful ways to spend your time.
As Rugby refuses to take the knee, is it time the Premier League stopped too?
- Thread starter Zexstream
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There was a guy a few years ago who took a stand. People couldn't believe it but there he was, making public statements calling out the hatred and asking for unity. Refusing to keep quiet any longer and wait for someone else to do something about it. He was probably sick of some people telling him that "now wasn't the time" or "this is getting tedious now". So he took a stand against prejudice and discrimination. A stand against an injustice that had plagued the society he lived in for generations, against past wrongs that had not been made right.
He was himself accused of fanning the flames of hate by pointing out these injustices. People who didn't want anything to change tried using diversionary tactics or attempted to change the narrative because they couldn't argue with the fundamental point of his movement; that the people of Elmore City deserved the right to dance. And that man's name was Die Hard.
Seriously though, imagine trying to argue anything other than "racism is wrong".
He was himself accused of fanning the flames of hate by pointing out these injustices. People who didn't want anything to change tried using diversionary tactics or attempted to change the narrative because they couldn't argue with the fundamental point of his movement; that the people of Elmore City deserved the right to dance. And that man's name was Die Hard.
Seriously though, imagine trying to argue anything other than "racism is wrong".
Why would a fairly harmless gesture with an anti-racist message inflame tensions? Can you answer that honestly.
Too many times I have seen people more interested in policing the reaction to racism than racism itself. The very fact that taking the knee is inflaming tensions in this country is a problem and a great example of why taking the knee should continue.
If someone presented the argument that taking the knee is ineffectual or tokenistic and why, that would, I suppose, be something worth discussing. I still wouldn't agree but there is something substantive there to discuss [and in all honesty, this argument could potentially convince me/win me over], but the OP's position boils down to nothing more than 'meh cringe tired of seeing it now, racism in the UK was solved a long time ago, this is just pandering to an American political movement waah waah'.
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In part, because it was an anti authoritarian political statement to begin with, that has now become something else entirrly. We already had kick-it-out campaigns and John Barnes was already front and centre in the media calling our country out for not doing enough to combat racism in the lower levels of football, so that discussion had already happened. It feels like the CURRENT message is designed to turn groups of people into either the "victim" or "perpetrator" roles, and it's not nice to feel like either of those - if the message ISN'T intended that way then the problem is that it's confusing. I prefer unifying statements to divisive ones, as much as I get the sentiment behind it all and it breaks my heart to read about our players suffering racist abuse - nobody deserves that. Especially our players as they've proven what fantastic human beings they are. But this stuff is deliberately inflammatory. Saying you want it front and centre goes to the Malcolm X line of thinking but Martin Luther King is one of my heroes and his philosophy feels at odds with all this antagonism. Last I'll write in here though as it's upsetting to write about. I hope Axel and Marcus etc are alright.
As a fan of both, I can tell you where you're more likely to encounter racism and it ain't at the rugby ground.
Eh?
Depends on your definition of racism. Institutional racism exists in predominantly white middle class institutions. You won't encounter much of the blatant vitriolic abuse seen at football grounds but privately I know it exists. My ex father in law was very much like that; a middle class professional, cricket, tennis and rugby loving pillar of the community. Yet some of the stuff he came out in private used to shock me
Sending a message is important to all facets of society, even though it may not be having a great deal of impact on a lot of the people as evidenced by the infantile statements by the OP. Racism is prevalent in all areas of our life both institutional and direct. A large number of people who are not from a BAME background excuse Racism, as it was just a joke, drunken behavior, trolling or stupidly think it isn't as prevalent any more but if the first thing that comes out of a lot of individuals mouths when in a confrontation or argument is a reference to someone's race or appearance than that is indicative of it being a common issue not just a minor thing. People think if you aren't EDL or National Front or along those lines then its not large scale racism but it still is. Solidarity is essential so showing support for the message whether they be Millionaires or other is key.
I don't see how it is deliberately inflammatory. They've moved from away from the BLM stuff, to a more general say no to racism message [and it's much more than just verbal racist abuse, which is the easiest form of racism to deal with, personally speaking]. I don't see how that message is designed to alienate anyone or be antagonistic in any kind of way. As a black person in the UK, I've had many more conversations with friends and football fans in general about racism and race relations in UK society in the last 12 months than we'd ever had previously. What would a unifying message sound like to you, if I may ask? Say no to racism sounds pretty unifying to me.
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And also as a fan of both, I can tell you which sport promotes a system of classism and it isn't the football ground.
You are giving people far too much credit. Most people don't have a clue about any of those political undertones, most people simply associate the BLM movement with fighting racial inequality in society. That simply shouldn't be a divisive issue, the fact that it is and people like the OP are arguing against it shows that isn't the case for everyone and that's the real problem.
So here's a white man's story:
Since the BLM campaign/taking the knee started. Reading people's posts regarding their experiences with racism has opened my eyes to issues I didn't realise were there. Obviously I don't mean I didn't know racism existed anymore as the OP suggested but smaller less notable issues. Reading people's experiences such a woman tightens her grip on her bag when she notices a black man has joined the queue behind her, people moving away from the Asian student on the train after spotting his bag in the wake of the Manchester Arena bombings, people asking the british-asian man but where are you really from when he replies England or people asking their black colleague if they they can touch her hair. I've even noticed I've been guilty of similar things in the past, avoiding the hooded black man when out in town but perfectly fine walking past group of drunk white men. I could be wrong but taking the knee is to open peoples eyes to things like this to show that just because you don't come across obvious racism in your world, people using aggressive racial slurs etc. It doesn't mean racism doesn't exist.
Since the BLM campaign/taking the knee started. Reading people's posts regarding their experiences with racism has opened my eyes to issues I didn't realise were there. Obviously I don't mean I didn't know racism existed anymore as the OP suggested but smaller less notable issues. Reading people's experiences such a woman tightens her grip on her bag when she notices a black man has joined the queue behind her, people moving away from the Asian student on the train after spotting his bag in the wake of the Manchester Arena bombings, people asking the british-asian man but where are you really from when he replies England or people asking their black colleague if they they can touch her hair. I've even noticed I've been guilty of similar things in the past, avoiding the hooded black man when out in town but perfectly fine walking past group of drunk white men. I could be wrong but taking the knee is to open peoples eyes to things like this to show that just because you don't come across obvious racism in your world, people using aggressive racial slurs etc. It doesn't mean racism doesn't exist.
Haha! Hey, that was autocorrect. Not by the racist subconscious part of our brains, but by my Android operating system.After being such a vehement anti-racist in the thread, seeing you fall at the last hurdle by confusing two black football players with each other is heartbreaking.
I should edit, but nah, I think it is too late.
"So, over the last 10 years, a white individual who has been arrested was about 25% more likely to die in custody than a black individual who had been arrested"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52890363
...sorry, read the above article. White people are PROPORTIONALLY more likely to die in police custody. I am not for one minute suggesting racism doesn't exist or isn't a problem worth addressing, nor that white people have it harder.
But you're being quite disingenuous here and it doesn't help your cause
Love how you try to disprove that claim by linking an article that states blacks are arrested at a DISPROPORTIONAL rate. Why do you think that is?
Focusing on arrests, yes.
Deaths in custody are broader than deaths in custody following arrests.
From the same article that you cited:
"When you compare these figures to how much of the population these groups make up (as measured by the 2011 census), black people are more than twice as likely to die in police custody.
The 2011 census - the most accurate source - showed that 3% of the English population were black (though this proportion may have grown since then). Black people accounted for 8% of deaths in custody."
Also how individuals have died matters too:
"An independent review of deaths in police custody between 1989/1990 and 2008/2009 found that: "a disproportionate number of people from BAME communities (and those with mental health concerns) have died following the use of force"."
From paragraph 136 of the Angiolini Review: " Use of restraint was found to be more prevalent in cases of Black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) individuals who have died in police custody than in deaths of white people."
https://assets.publishing.service.g...eport_of_Angiolini_Review_ISBN_Accessible.pdf
Theresa May on becoming PM said: " “If you’re Black, you’re treated more harshly by the criminal justice system than if you’re white.”
This societal racism goes deeper than I’d ever imagined.Haha! Hey, that was autocorrect. Not by the racist subconscious part of our brains, but by my Android operating system.
That is a very difficult question with a multifaceted answer. I suspect that some of it has to do with institutional racism but that is far too simplistic to be the complete reason.
I'm not here trying to say racism doesn't exist so don't know why you're responding to me as such?
It seems as if you aren't in complete bootlicking subservience to BLM or don't say racism is the answer to all bad outcomes for people of colour, then you are castigated as a racist.
Like wise, there are idiots who deny any racism exists at all and is a thing of the past, when it clearly isn't the case.
Whilst the thread regarding United releasing a statement in the wake of players being racially attacked stands at 6 pages after 2 weeeks this thread regarding backpedaling an anti-racism gesture is already at 15 pages in a day. . .
Quite revealing how engaged & vocal the pseudo intellectuals of the Caf are when it comes to these things; the same forum where a poster gave first hand testimony of racism in & around OT that was dismissed by multiple posters whilst the vocal members in this thread stayed silent.
This place never fails to show its ass on these issues
Quite revealing how engaged & vocal the pseudo intellectuals of the Caf are when it comes to these things; the same forum where a poster gave first hand testimony of racism in & around OT that was dismissed by multiple posters whilst the vocal members in this thread stayed silent.
This place never fails to show its ass on these issues
What a bizarre thread.
Can't tell if the OP is trolling or being genuine.
Can't tell if the OP is trolling or being genuine.
Ha, had this one a few times. Its one of those things for me personally where there's a way to do it... Like they can say "I mean where does your family originate" or "what's your heritage" and that's cool... But when it's "No, where are you really from" not that it upsets /offends me... it just comes across as a bit ignorant.
Anyway jokes on them when I say South Africa and they just get even more confused.
Androids can not take the knee. iOS may be safe.
I'm a bit disappointed by the Rugby stereotypes. On a personal level, I have seen infintitely more racism and sexism around Football than Rugby.
Yes, it's time. While some will castigate me, it's time because it's not inclusive. Watch a video where is the person helping hearing impaired, if there is documentation, are they created for neurodiverse individuals, sight impaired individuals, is the material decolonised..
There is a danger of populism, I want to see BLM, kickitout and others shout equally about other issues.
I challenge anyone; message kickitout and ask them how inclusive their training is..
There is a danger of populism, I want to see BLM, kickitout and others shout equally about other issues.
I challenge anyone; message kickitout and ask them how inclusive their training is..
Yea mate nothing p*sees me off more than when Breast Cancer UK come round looking for a handout; what about the prostates!!!
Tell you what we should just centralise the whole thing; Every Cause UK - covers the lot.
Now I come to think of it, Rashford can feck off too, only feeding school kids; what about adult hunger - disgusting eh.
Don’t even get me started on KickItOut, what about KickItIn. . .
What does bending the knee actually achieve? It doesn't raise anymore awareness and nothing has been done since.
It's time action is taken rather than some stupid political movement to pretend like people care but if people cared something would have been done by now.
It's time action is taken rather than some stupid political movement to pretend like people care but if people cared something would have been done by now.
Is this trolling ?
There are many people who think that it's a good point. Whenever someone point the finger at an issue there is a minority of "But what do you have to say about X?" kind of people.
If you find it "cringe worthy" to see players take a knee in support of BLM then perhaps that's because you're racist...At the weekend the Irish and Scottish Rugby teams refused to take the Knee for BLM.
Surely this cringe show should now end and the silliness of millionaire footballers taking the knee before an empty stadium every week should stop.
Whilst I have sympathies with the problems in the United States I fail to see how millionaire footballers bending the knee each week does anything to help those in the States and certainly is something we have to worry about in the UK.
No matter what your view, BLM is a political Movement, I much prefer we aim to make all lives better no matter, and one thing that Rashford has highlighted in the UK is the divide between the haves and have nots regardless of colour.
I honestly believe this Premier League Wokeness needs to stop, and I fully support the Rugby Teams in taking a stand on this.
https://www.irishpost.com/news/enti...e-before-six-nations-tie-against-wales-203307
If I was about to write something I knew people would castigate me for, I might first wonder if what I was about to write was really stupid.
But your awareness has been raised, no?
Yeah, idiots they’re called. But I’ve never seen it put the way he put it.
Hence why I said "anymore".
What does bending the knee do now when sports franchise do it? It doesn't change anything or achieve anything.
You are lucky!
I think OP is racist but has never come to terms with it before.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news...e-following-targeting-of-footballers-12214174
Looks like this issue being highlighted so often has got Instagram to act. So maybe it does change something...
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