I wonder if the OP takes issue with rememberance day and the wearing of the poppy too?
As Rugby refuses to take the knee, is it time the Premier League stopped too?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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As long as it keeps annoying racists all over the world they should keep doing it.
Enjoying your late flurry
Gold. I'm catching up late with this thread.
You have links to Breitbart in your text.
Guess what, they really are super political.
Louis Zaha would also be fuming.
If this taking the knee starts discourse and next season we move forward with aims and actions to remove racism from sport then it will have achieved its goal.
This should only be a starting point. Creating discussion, highlighting prejudice/ignorance and then moving to take effective actions as a collective to prevent it.
Ha ha! I may be reported for spam, but I've enjoyed it.Enjoying your late flurry
After being such a vehement anti-racist in the thread, seeing you fall at the last hurdle by confusing two black football players with each other is heartbreaking.Louis Zaha would also be fuming.
I mean I understand that it's nothing more than a PR move and doesn't do much to actually impact the racism problems currently in football.
That being said, it's literally only 5 seconds used for kneeling. Don't know why people would have an issue with it.
That being said, it's literally only 5 seconds used for kneeling. Don't know why people would have an issue with it.
I totally disagree. This is the only reason to stop the knee. More racists have surfaced and racism has got worse since the knee thing began, not better. The fight shouldn’t stop, but maybe the approach should.
So you suggest to kneel to racists instead..
After being such a vehement anti-racist in the thread, seeing you fall at the last hurdle by confusing two black football players with each other is heartbreaking.
I wondered why I was so confused by that post. Now I see it.
I think he's trying to say that it's easier than it's ever been during human history. Which is of course mostly irrelevant, even if true.
It's like Bingo this.
Millionaires... check!
Rugby does it better... check!
Cringe show... check!
Problems are in the United States, not relevant here... check!
Kneeling doesn't help... check!
Political movement... check!
All lives matter... check!
Wokeness... check!
Millionaires... check!
Rugby does it better... check!
Cringe show... check!
Problems are in the United States, not relevant here... check!
Kneeling doesn't help... check!
Political movement... check!
All lives matter... check!
Wokeness... check!
Half the bloody Premier League is BAME, you really think they don't understand the symbolism of taking the knee just because they <checks notes> get paid a lot? Patronising bollocks of the highest order. They're rich, they're not morons- and almost all of them are from working-class backgrounds, so you'd better believe they heard their fair share of racist abuse both as kids and adults.
I've still only got three posts a day so I'm going to try to cover as much of this as I can in one.
You say that racism isn't really a problem in the UK- of course it is. It's better than it was in the 80's, I don't doubt, but that's no reason to stop and be happy with what we've got.
You also seem to believe that using the phrase "Black lives matter" means you're supporting the small section of people in America who violently protested last year. It doesn't. It just means "Black lives matter". When footballers take the knee they're not advocating for an extremist group, they're just trying to remind everyone that their lives matter. Because otherwise, unfortunately, a lot of people are going to forget. That's what makes this time different, because it wasn't just anti-racism for a few weeks as a social media trend that everyone forgot about after George Floyd's funeral. The point is to keep it going.
Another point you make is that players aren't being afforded the right to refuse. Of course they are- look at James McClean, who refuses to wear a poppy even though he knows he'll get death threats for it every year. If any footballers didn't want to kneel before matches then they just wouldn't do it.
I just don't get it. Why you feel it's up to you whether this is worth doing is beyond me.
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These footballers weren’t born into wealth, so being a millionaire has nothing to do with it really. As a British Asian I can almost guarantee the vast majority of minority players in any level of sport have experienced racism as some point in their life. Taking the knee is a 5 second gesture just to remind people that some things need to change and won’t be tolerated anymore.
How much can a footballer earn before we have to not listen to them?
This is something I've thought about but I'm not sure it'll do anything... like, say if all the top footballers went off Instagram/Twitter... would they care? Twitter will still have its constant news cycle, and Instagram will still have Kim Kardashian or whoever it is that makes them millions these days... So at that point nothing changes and you're basically just getting footballers (and possibly specifically black footballers) off Social Media, and should that be the outcome of racism they receive on those platforms? That black players have to deprive themselves of social media and the positives that come with it?
Makes me think about that Star Wars actress that got hounded off social media because she dared to be a female in a Star Wars film that people didn't like.
My my... 14 pages already. I've skimmed through the thread and many of the same arguments from the previous thread on taking the knee have resurfaced. Since then, we have seen many more instances of players being racially abused on social media. Presumably, this was always a thing but is now much more widely reported. For me, it feel though racism is being targetted a lot more in football than it was before; even getting to the point where matches are being abandoned on the grounds of racism. However, it's also much harder to punish given all the abuse now happens online.
To address some of the discussion about taking the knee, yes, there should be a sensible discussion about when it's time to stop, but is that time now? Given we are seeing some high profile cases of abuse? Surely not. But will we ever see a reduction in this abuse? The realist in me thinks no. It's a hard conversation to have, and it should certainly not be driven by voices on the internet. The decision should rest on the players and staff. I strongly believe that as long as those who have to face these comments feel this movement gives them the power to oppose racism, we should back them.
Does more need to be done systemically to drive equality? Yes, of course. Football doesn't happen in a vacuum and to a great extent it represents a wider culture. The need for equality based on race, gender, age, sexual orientation, gender identity, social class etc cuts deeper than a few dozen sportspeople making a gesture for a few seconds. This gesture may seem meaningless and pointless in the face of such huge changes that need to be made, but look; it has driven this discussion and many more like it. Maybe it has resulted in a few people taking up a cause close to them they wouldn't otherwise have done. Maybe more people are becoming more political when before they would otherwise have passively sat by watching on the sidelines.
The taking the knee gesture makes a lot of people angry. I think this is a good thing. We should be angry. We should be angry that these people we look up to feel unsafe online - despite their riches and talent. We should feel angry that thousands of kids go hungry in the UK and the government does the bare minimum to support them. We should be angry that a small percentage of people control the vast majority of wealth and resources. We should feel angry that because of a person's background - something they cannot change - they are treated differently (and by 'differently' I mean worse) by the system. Maybe we are angry because we feel we can't change these things. Maybe we feel angry because we see how any of these things affect us, but may you feel as if you get no recognition - 'Who's taking the knee for me!?'
What we can't do is allow this gesture to divide us and set us apart from each other. We all have our problems and football is what has brought us together. I have my own struggles with how society treats me and people like me (not racism, but won't go into that here as it's not the place). It doesn't matter that I've not had to deal with racism towards myself, I will stand in solidarity with those who have to face it - like any who need people to stand with them. Ultimately, whatever issues you have to deal with, there's a clear benefit to some if we are divided and fighting between ourselves. How often do we see the seeds of distrust sown towards those who have the temerity who ask for equal rights?
To address some of the discussion about taking the knee, yes, there should be a sensible discussion about when it's time to stop, but is that time now? Given we are seeing some high profile cases of abuse? Surely not. But will we ever see a reduction in this abuse? The realist in me thinks no. It's a hard conversation to have, and it should certainly not be driven by voices on the internet. The decision should rest on the players and staff. I strongly believe that as long as those who have to face these comments feel this movement gives them the power to oppose racism, we should back them.
Does more need to be done systemically to drive equality? Yes, of course. Football doesn't happen in a vacuum and to a great extent it represents a wider culture. The need for equality based on race, gender, age, sexual orientation, gender identity, social class etc cuts deeper than a few dozen sportspeople making a gesture for a few seconds. This gesture may seem meaningless and pointless in the face of such huge changes that need to be made, but look; it has driven this discussion and many more like it. Maybe it has resulted in a few people taking up a cause close to them they wouldn't otherwise have done. Maybe more people are becoming more political when before they would otherwise have passively sat by watching on the sidelines.
The taking the knee gesture makes a lot of people angry. I think this is a good thing. We should be angry. We should be angry that these people we look up to feel unsafe online - despite their riches and talent. We should feel angry that thousands of kids go hungry in the UK and the government does the bare minimum to support them. We should be angry that a small percentage of people control the vast majority of wealth and resources. We should feel angry that because of a person's background - something they cannot change - they are treated differently (and by 'differently' I mean worse) by the system. Maybe we are angry because we feel we can't change these things. Maybe we feel angry because we see how any of these things affect us, but may you feel as if you get no recognition - 'Who's taking the knee for me!?'
What we can't do is allow this gesture to divide us and set us apart from each other. We all have our problems and football is what has brought us together. I have my own struggles with how society treats me and people like me (not racism, but won't go into that here as it's not the place). It doesn't matter that I've not had to deal with racism towards myself, I will stand in solidarity with those who have to face it - like any who need people to stand with them. Ultimately, whatever issues you have to deal with, there's a clear benefit to some if we are divided and fighting between ourselves. How often do we see the seeds of distrust sown towards those who have the temerity who ask for equal rights?
Did you quote the wrong post, completely misconstrue what I said, or try and twist my words?
My post was basically saying that the knee has had a negative impact so something else, something better, needs to be done. So I’m guessing that you quoted the wrong post, I’ll let you off.
So the racists, apologists and deniers don't like that for a few moments at the start of a football match something happens that irritates them or makes them uncomfortable. But footballers should have to silently put up with constant, egregious racist abuse online.
If it irritates you, good. Ask yourself why.
If it irritates you, good. Ask yourself why.
How about we just do away with social media.
Metaphorically speaking.
My only issue is "obligating" footballers to do this. It'd give a stronger message if they collectively said they don't have a problem with it and want to continue taking a knee.
Don't really see any good reason why you'd take a stand against taking the knee. Even if a player feels it's pointless or unnecessary, why make a point of it? It takes 20 seconds, and it's for a good cause.
That would be great. How do you suggest going about it?
If you don't want to take a knee, don't take a knee. But don't actively try to stop others from doing so. The OP is basically doing what you said in the opposite direction (attacking footballers for taking the knee) and I don't even understand the reasoning anymore. There seems to be none.
Unfortunately mate, any anti-racism conversation/act will inflame tensions. People have different thresholds on what they deem is racist, what is helping and what is not. And the very nature of racism is on such a personal level that the likelihood of offending someone is very high. Insinuating that someone is a racist, easy for that person to become super offended and defensive (very few people in the world would wear that label proudly). And then of course someone's views being racist, perhaps without them realizing, and offending someone of that race.
What matters is that we talk about it, take a deep breath, converse and try to understand each other with intellect and good reasoning. Not willful ignorance.
Because so many people feel the benefits of it, especially with travel banned and being unable to visit family. Why let the idiots ruin it for the majority?
Should always be a personal choice and people shouldnt feel pressured either way.
Of course they’re political.
I don't know if this is a controversial opinion or not but I'm gonna say it anyway: whilst I wholeheartedly support Black Lives Matter as a movement and all the gestures that come along with it, I don't think it's wise for other societies to import some of the social science theories developed in the United States in a full-blown manner. And this goes both ways -- the right the world over has over the years imported some of the more fringe ideas from the American right and this, too, is a great (if not greater) concern.
Ultimately, context needs to be accounted for.
Ultimately, context needs to be accounted for.
Maybe we could all stand on one foot.
As a self-proclaimed "anti-anti-racist", you're basically proclaiming that you're against people who dislike racists. Not sure the point you're trying to make except tell the world you're in favour of racism or something...At the weekend the Irish and Scottish Rugby teams refused to take the Knee for BLM.
Surely this cringe show should now end and the silliness of millionaire footballers taking the knee before an empty stadium every week should stop.
Whilst I have sympathies with the problems in the United States I fail to see how millionaire footballers bending the knee each week does anything to help those in the States and certainly is something we have to worry about in the UK.
No matter what your view, BLM is a political Movement, I much prefer we aim to make all lives better no matter, and one thing that Rashford has highlighted in the UK is the divide between the haves and have nots regardless of colour.
I honestly believe this Premier League Wokeness needs to stop, and I fully support the Rugby Teams in taking a stand on this.
https://www.irishpost.com/news/enti...e-before-six-nations-tie-against-wales-203307
Ah okay, yeah I see that now. I thought he meant it's easier to be a minority than be a majority.
He's right if he did mean it's easier than it's ever been. It is kind of irrelevant but it also shows that things that raise awareness of racism, such as let's say taking the knee, play their part in making life better for the minorities. Even if it's only a small percent, it's a step in the right direction.
Amount of stuff? What? One instance of taking the knee before each game is "intense" and is overbearing to you?
Correcting racial abuse and institutional racism is nothing more than a PR move?
Reducing the act of showing solidarity to nothing more than standing on one foot, which coincidentally is taking the p*ss out of kneeling, highlights how important it is to continue to kneel before games.
I believe the threshold is £40k a week.
Lee Grant can tell me what to do but Dan James can feck off.
For the PL, it's just PR without a doubt. It's not correcting anything in the grand scheme of things. The gesture takes a couple of seconds though so the reasoning behind the OP is very stupid in all honesty.
I don't think they are obligated but it's interesting that if some chose not to they would get a shitstorm of abuse.
Not that there is much of a good reason to not take a knee.
Personally I don't care if they kneel or not. Don't feel it makes a difference. But I'd like for all of them in the same team to do it or none of them do it (by choice of course not policy).
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