That's slightly unfair, any other season we would have a competitive points tally. City are just on a freak run.
Ashton: Jose Mourinho demands ‘afraid’ stars get into their heads how much it means to play for Utd
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
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The above is copied and pasted from the 1st message on the 1st page, in the 2017-2018 transfer tweets thread, on the transfer forum.
If it's banned there for being unreliable, why are we 4 pages into a debate on a report, that this site already knows, to be a bunch of total bullshiters?
And what does that make the rest of us for continuing it on?
Come on admins, haven't we have enough of this topic from Jose himself already? and maybe a yellow card for the OP?
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alaidi
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DiegoMSport
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HenriqueAlvero
Hesham Bilal-Hafiz
Julien_mgrt
Kevin Palmer
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The above is copied and pasted from the 1st message on the 1st page, in the 2017-2018 transfer tweets thread, on the transfer forum.
If it's banned there for being unreliable, why are we 4 pages into a debate on a report, that this site already knows, to be a bunch of total bullshiters?
And what does that make the rest of us for continuing it on?
Come on admins, haven't we have enough of this topic from Jose himself already? and maybe a yellow card for the OP?
I fully agree the squad in general isn’t half as bad as he is making it out to be. His football has been dire, no style, no tactics and no plan B. Jose’s football seems to have sucked the football life/desire out of his players. Up until the Sevilla game he had the fans behind him, tolerating his dire/negative football and even calling it progress because instead of draws like last year we scraped some results this year, Southampton, Tottenham, Chrystal Palace just a few games that come to mind.
Jose was so confident of his support he was shocked at the dismay and booing from the fans. A lot of fans that gave him the benefit of the doubt haved turned against him now(last straw etc). Then his press conferences after that night haven’t helped him either.
The problem is Jose doesn’t have no mystical plan, or vision, he seems to be making it up as he goes along and hoping by some fluke all falls into place.
What gets me the most is, I really respected the pragmatic man and was very happy when the news broke he was our manager. Fast forward 18 months, lost all respect of him as a manager and human being can’t wait for the day he leaves or gets fired. Tired of his terrible football, the blame game and that sour uninterested face sagged out in a chair in the dugout. How can you expect players to be all fired up if that is the demeanour of the manager.
Are you for real?
Wasn't Ashton the one who was dead certain on Matic all summer? Rooney used to be very close to Ashton too certainly when he was with us. I doubt Jose has much to do with this though I'm sure he won't object to more positive PR. Hopefully Jose signs more players with the mentality he needs to success this Summer, no more Mkhitaryan's anyway I hope...
So true
We can't pay everyone half a million a week to play for us though.
If that is the case, can you explain why we are 2nd place in the league.
And please, I want a full detailed explanation, with stats to back up your explanation.
Didn't you know that we are 2nd in the league only because of De Gea...We would be significantly worse off with our three times in a row player of the season, who wouldve thought
I think Ashton is meant to be a bit more reliable than the average Sun journalists, apparently.
I read that thinking you were quoting someone from blue moon, rawk or in here
Its a bit weird. The players showed lots of determination and heart just a few weeks ago when they managed a great comeback against palace. Most of the players did more than ok when we managed to beat both Chelsea and Liverpool.
A week later and the players are suddenly primadonnas that dont listen to the managers instructions?
A week later and the players are suddenly primadonnas that dont listen to the managers instructions?
To be fair United’s expected PL goals is at 34 so in essence De Gea has saved 14 goals in the PL campaign.Didn't you know that we are 2nd in the league only because of De Gea...We would be significantly worse off with our three times in a row player of the season, who wouldve thought
Calm yourself, Sunama. I wasn't being entirely serious.
Bingo. And why did they come back that day? Because at 2-0 down, they had to go for it. Their manager's instructions had put them two down in the first place.
There's a major health warning here, because I have no idea if Ashton's story is true or not. It is The Sun, after all. But in any case: on Friday, Mourinho's highlighting the Man City squad (including a player he himself sold, FFS), with the implication of "how can I compete? It's just not fair" and discussing United's recent history (implication: "Look what I inherited! I'm doing really well!").
Then on Sunday, he singles out individual players, one in particular. Sorry Jose - which is it? Do the players have bad attitudes or are you building something?
All this, incidentally, is completely standard stuff from him. He did it to Pedro Leon at Madrid, then a bunch of much bigger names (who he referred to as "black sheep"). He threw his own physio under the bus at Chelsea, then another bunch of big names, as well as calling them "mentally weak". Now, whether or not Ashton's story is correct, he's at it again - entirely with a view to defending and protecting himself.
It's very lowest common denominator stuff - because it always leaves many fans, not to mention his boards, thinking "that's just what I'd tell these overpaid layabouts. He's a manager after my own heart who really cares about this club. Shape up or ship out, and let's give him hundreds more millions to get people in who'll give everything".
But this is to ignore what he's actually culpable for. In his craven tactics, always obsessed by the opponent, and the ridiculous over-intensity he manages with, he ruins players. What he's done to Sanchez and Pogba is staggering. They play badly, appearing to prove him right, only because he's deploying them wrongly in the first place. There is nothing positive he can possibly achieve by slagging Shaw in public - other than the board signing new players. And in the end, he doesn't get anything like the maximum from his sides... because they end up confused by him, even hating him.
Footballers are paid fortunes - but in terms of wanting to be treated fairly and with respect, they're just the same as any of us. And the manager is far and away the most important position at any club for a reason. Players run through proverbial brick walls for managers who pick them in their best positions, play to their strengths, treat them with warmth and empathy, and don't play constant mind games with them: especially not in public.
No-one else at the elite end of the sport does this. Only Mourinho does - and the reason he does is himself. Not his team.
Im really glad he is taking this approach as someone needs to be ruthless in this club. The atmosphere has been all sunshine and happy and nice even when results are bad. The players need a big wake up call to what it is to wear the united shirt. Although this speech should have been said a long time ago but better late than never.
This. They just recently gave spirited performances coming back in the Chelsea and Palace games, did so against Liverpool and in the Sevilla game we saw their response once the shackles were taken off in the last 10 minutes. I'm guessing the ongoing smear campaign to vilify our players is to protect the manager who funny enough never had a problem with their performances until he started receiving stick about his approach. This is how he constantly loses dressing rooms and divides fans. The real irony here is that his tactics are the real thing that reflect fear
He's distancing himself from a mentality and playstyle he's condoned all season long and pushing the blame on those he's supposed to lead
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Are you for real?
That Sunday supplement, shit-stirring windup merchant! In some magical interview, he had with Jose that cannot be found anywhere just basically lied and some, not mentioning who, are defending him?
Heres what he wrote...
He was furious with his side’s display against Brighton at Old Trafford and even claimed Nemanja Matic was playing on “an island”
But France coach Didier Deschamps has not helped Mourinho’s cause by claiming Paul Pogba is unhappy at the Red Devils.
Deschamps. "But of course it's a situation he won't be enjoying." BBC quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAJFYMUJNEw Jose post-match, all of which you can only agree with. He has not insulted anybody and demanding what they worked on to be put in to practice. Is that not his job? Nobody singled out for criticism. When asked about Luke Shaw, he explained the tactics of it. BTW he is not the first player to come off at halftime because a manager wanted something different and I'm fairly sure none of the others has died from it! Oh, and he said he was unhappy about the performance he did in no way look furious!
Please close this thread admins, its an article designed to inflame an already tense situation, with us, the fans, as its target. We have 4 or more let's kick Jose threads do we honestly need another? Especially one based on lies!
The fearful one, who sets up his team defensively against the mediocre Sevilla, accuses the players of being afraid
Ironic isn't it?
The biggest coward in our dressing room is the manager himself as evidenced by his cowardly tactics everytime faced against any half decent oppositions. Yet here he is accusing others of being afraid. You couldn't make this shit up.
That's pretty much my take on it as well. Doesn't mean the head of all of our players is in the right place. But just looking at the way we approach things in big games shows that they surely are not the only problem we have.Ironic isn't it?
The biggest coward in our dressing room is the manager himself as evidenced by his cowardly tactics everytime faced against any half decent oppositions. Yet here he is accusing others of being afraid. You couldn't make this shit up.
Agree that Mou is mostly to blame for this current stir, but some of the guys in the media, like Ashton, are probably making it a much bigger problem than it really is. All to get the important clicks of course.
Its not just big games
It‘s part of his training regime. If they don’t have a clear system (which we obviously have) and if we don’t train that, then the players just cant perform well. In the past, players said that Jose hardly trains any attacking variations which shows
I don't remember Drogba, Robben, Duff and Lampard needing him to coach attack. Eto'o, Milito, Pandev and Sneijder seemed okay as well. Ronaldo, Higuain, Di Maria and Ozil arguably more so. Hazard, Costa, Willian and Oscar were fine too.
If there was something so desperately wrong about his approach to attacking wouldn't it have shown in the play of these players?
Traditionally all managers set their teams up so the attackers had a platform to perform. Apart from the Dutch style and the stuff Lobanovskyi did in the USSR (Ukraine) most coaches just set up to let their attackers express themselves. That is what Jose does. Can he really be blamed if his players lack the personality to take that opportunity and run with it?
Oh man. This is so true.
His obsession with the opposition might be the reason why we've struggled to maintain a consistent level of performance.
One thing I've noticed since SAF is we rarely seem to have any buzz or energy in our performances, certainly not from minute one. We fall behind before we get going. So often I watch us now and you want to grab some of the players and shake them, but I fear that desire to flow forward has been coached out of them, starting with LVG and continuing with Mourinho.
We used to have lesser teams beaten by the ten minute mark. Fulham on opening day about six or seven years ago comes to mind- I think it finished five-one but right from the whistle we were screaming forward and you knew immediately it was going to be another successful season. For about twenty years that was what we were all about, pace power and above all the desire to score goals no matter what cost, all the time. Maybe that's why it's so hard to watch us over the past few years.
We used to have lesser teams beaten by the ten minute mark. Fulham on opening day about six or seven years ago comes to mind- I think it finished five-one but right from the whistle we were screaming forward and you knew immediately it was going to be another successful season. For about twenty years that was what we were all about, pace power and above all the desire to score goals no matter what cost, all the time. Maybe that's why it's so hard to watch us over the past few years.
Stop talking sense!!
Everyone knows mourinhio has lost it and everywhere he has been has been a disaster.
He just got lucky building those teams,anyone can do it once, oh wait!
I hate to tell you and think about it myself, but that was 12 years ago. Time is a bitch.
In recent years there has been a slow trend to re-write Fergie as more pragmatic than he actually was. Yes, in his last couple of season the football was not as impressive as our best years, but he was always willing to take risks, commit numbers forward and gamble.
I think its a mix of both.
The last few seasons of Ferguson are made out to be utter garbage, which is total nonsense. Whereas the seasons before are made out to be the triumph of football, which is also garbage.
One of the worst games I've ever seen was in 2007/08, which some will tell you was the greatest year of Man Utd's modern history. Over Christmastime when we beat (I think) Birmingham 1-0 when a Ronaldo flick on led to a Tevez goal. It was the one moment of quality in an utterly DIRE game of football. It wasn't the only one either. We started that season very shakily with a 0-0 draw against Reading that matched the kind of borefest we got under Van Gaal. IMHO we played better in 2006/07. 2007/08 was mostly about Ronaldo being utterly amazing.
The truth is at our best under Fergie we were utterly brilliant but Fergie was not above grinding out wins if needed. On the whole we played good, fast, direct football. However, it fluctated. Yet when we went 13 hours without conceeding in the winter of 2008/09, winning a bunch of games 1-0, nobody was complaining.
Oh I think they were.
The most important advantage Ferguson had in those early years was lack of internet, online forums and general media coverage and exposure. He would have been hammered relentlessly. There's no way he would last for so long without a trophy.
There are many reasons why there are differentials in expected goals against. Burnley have a bigger differential than United, so does that mean Pope is a better goalkeeper than De Gea?
Liverpool have conceded 4 goals more than expected in the league, yet there are far more goals they've conceded where I would consider their goalkeeper to be the problem.
There are far too many factors in expected goals to simply boil it down to a goalkeeper. Goalkeeping quality is one of several factors that influences this.
06/07 also my favourite Utd season ever, fantastic chemistry between the players, Rooney and Ronaldo taking massive steps(probably the most fun Ronaldo to watch) and maybe the last season we saw close to prime Giggs and Scholes together. They both had great years afterwards but they rarely seemed to be at the same time.
The difference for me is intent, there were tons of awful Fergie games when the team lacked spark or rhythm, that is football, it is going to happen, so being able to grind out wins in those matches is important. I rarely felt however that he sent a team out with the express desire to kill the game and wait for an opposition mistake. Can not say that about Mourinho.
I know the substance over style argument has been done to death, results the only thing that matters for many but as a club that styles itself as one of the Elite, I believe that with that comes a responsibility to play the game in a certain away. Do not expect everyone to agree with that, you choose what you enjoy, fair enough.
I don’t disagree that it isn’t as simple as goalkeeping; however when there’s a massive deviation from the expected numbers typically it points to exceptional goal keeping play and/or exceptional positioning from the defenders to limit the shot placement.
Re United De Gea has made a lot of huge saves that have granted victories or prevented losses.
Best example was the Arsenal match. Arsenal was relentless and had numerous guild edge chances, but De Gea mades some incredible save and United was clinical in converting its limited chances.
I’m sure if we were to review the film on each of the matches we could point critical saves of a high difficulty nature.
The other key point is to look at the number of shots/saves De Gea in contrast to Pope.
Yes. As a neutral, I'd turn on the telly or radio, United would be on most weeks, the game would kick off and I'd hear that nick nack paddy whack chant immediately. Which I'd instinctively associate with the team getting right at the oppo from the first whistle. That was a legacy of Ferguson's mentality: not just how he coached the side, but in what the opponents and fans would always expect. It's vanished now.
Agree. My ranking of "most fluid Fergie sides ever" would be:
1. 1999/2000
2. 2006/2007
3. From April 1993 to the end of the year
With number 3 starting in a game I'll never be able to forget.
Exactly. Mourinho's way nowadays is to kill all away games against leading clubs stone dead; try and sneak a win on the counter in those games at home and if the opponent does the same, ie. refuses to make the play, he has an instant problem.
Of course sometimes Fergie's teams played badly - sometimes the attacking part of the team completely misfired, and for much of 2001-6, it was unclear where the side was going. But his attitude was totally different to what Mourinho's, since 2010, has become. That's what enabled him to build a brilliant, majestically fluid new side by 06/7; Mourinho's way, by contrast, isn't going to build anything long term.
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Another great post from young Shaun here.
Exactly. Creates culture of fear through reactive football. Complains about timid players. Wat.I dont know about players JM bought but when it comes to player power, he shouldnt be worried when it comes to players he got from Moyes/LvG. If they didnt down tool in middle of LvG`s 2nd season and at the end won FA cup, regardless that OT and fans turned on LvG, then he is safe when it comes to that bunch.
Where is he saying that?
Well that‘s some time ago and 2nd, it‘s a big difference if it‘s clearly not working. Then you have to prove that you can change things. So far, he didn’t manage to do so and it‘s obvious that we have attacking gameplay. How he managed to have that at RM (well, he had amazing players at his disposal) or his old Chelsea team, we don’t know. We do know though that there is no progress whatsoever at United