Ballon D’or 2019: who will win it? (Alleged leak: Messi 1, Van Dijk 2, Salah 3).

Halds

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Messi got 686 votes and van Dijk got 679. The closest ever?
 

amolbhatia50k

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First goal he literally watched Suarez run through and tap it in. You’d get slated for that in a friendly 5 aside game. Can’t post the link to the goal where its obvious to see but Ferdinand and Wenger picked up on it

‘He’s right in front of him – that’s your man – the no9 on the back of his shirt. Static. Virgil van Dijk there was static. It’s criminal.” -Ferdinand

“Especially from a centre-back with that quality… he lets him go. At the start his position is not bad, but he refuses to respond.” -Wenger

Similarly the 2nd goal, he was the nearest man to Messi but stopped following the ball and let Messi in for a tap in. Not sure how you can make a case against that.
Those things apparent don't matter because his team won the competition. VVD was great last season. But Messi clearly had the best individual season. His overall influence on football games and the consistency with which he does it downright staggering. Easily the best I've ever seen. Well deserved award.
 

Prometheus

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First goal he literally watched Suarez run through and tap it in. You’d get slated for that in a friendly 5 aside game. Can’t post the link to the goal where its obvious to see but Ferdinand and Wenger picked up on it

‘He’s right in front of him – that’s your man – the no9 on the back of his shirt. Static. Virgil van Dijk there was static. It’s criminal.” -Ferdinand

“Especially from a centre-back with that quality… he lets him go. At the start his position is not bad, but he refuses to respond.” -Wenger

Similarly the 2nd goal, he was the nearest man to Messi but stopped following the ball and let Messi in for a tap in. Not sure how you can make a case against that.
Don't rely on pundit's words. It's their job to find fault that may or may not be valid. The only time I've seen them to not point out some "fault" at work is when someone hits a long screamer, and even then they go with keeper should have done better or something similar. For the first Matip shouldn't let that ball through, but VVD should follow Suarez as well. It's a class run. No fault at all for the second, the ball came off the post, ffs.
 

DelPotro

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VVD would probably have won if he won the National League as well. It's funny because it's exactly Ronaldo's Portugal that gave Messi his 6th Ballon d'Or.
 

giorno

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I watched it again before I responded to be sure - Suarez makes an excellent run between our two defenders from the edge of the box, while our defenders are defending in a straight line in front of the goal because the ball is on the outside, which they are supposed to do. Good offense beats good defense every single time, and that's just a case where you cannot respond quick enough or you'd have to block him out straight cold. You'll probably say you take Ferdinand's opinion over mine and that's fair enough, but that's just a great goal by Barcelona and nothing more, otherwise you could point to the entire defense at fault in 90% of the goals scored. E.g. Henderson should've made sure that Alba couldn't cross, or Matip should've cleared the cross before it came to Suarez. If you wanna argue that our entire defense was caught there and should do better, I could understand that. But no way that that goal is the direct cause of a Van Dijk error.

The second one is a stupid rebound which the best player on the planet responds quicker to than Van Dijk because he's better positioned and facing the ball better than Van Dijk. It almost literally hits him in the chest off the crossbar. If you honestly want to argue that it's Van Dijk fault that Messi scores that goal, I'm just gonna let you.
No. On the first goal, in that situation he is supposed to track the striker's run. It's a pretty glaring mistake. A somewhat acceptable one given the quality of the attacking play, but a big mistake nonetheless

On the second, he actually pulls wide instead of crashing towards the goal, and hence is in no position to make a play. He most likely gave up on the play. Again, a mistake. Not as big given the somewhat jammy development of the play and he likely would have been late anyways, but still, again, a mistake

To be fair to him, those are pretty much the only two mistakes i remember him making all of last season*(2019). He's made a couple more this season since.

Which is still pretty insane and underlines just how ridiculously good he's been this year

PS good defence always beats good offence in football. As Sacchi says, the perfect game(i.e. no mistakes) ends 0-0
 

RobinLFC

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No. On the first goal, in that situation he is supposed to track the striker's run. It's a pretty glaring mistake. A somewhat acceptable one given the quality of the attacking play, but a big mistake nonetheless

On the second, he actually pulls wide instead of crashing towards the goal, and hence is in no position to make a play. He most likely gave up on the play. Again, a mistake. Not as big given the somewhat jammy development of the play and he likely would have been late anyways, but still, again, a mistake

To be fair to him, those are pretty much the only two mistakes i remember him making all of last season*(2019). He's made a couple more this season since.

Which is still pretty insane and underlines just how ridiculously good he's been this year

PS good defence always beats good offence in football. As Sacchi says, the perfect game(i.e. no mistakes) ends 0-0
Disagree with the entire post obviously, but let’s leave it at that. I don’t wanna get into that discussion once again because it’s going to have the same outcome as after that game.
 
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fps

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Can’t argue with Messi, we are becoming immune to how extraordinary he is. It’s not just the goals he is the best passer in the world, best dribbler, best free kick taker, he wins matches on his own like never before in a struggling (comparatively) Barcelona side.
 

Prometheus

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Can’t argue with Messi, we are becoming immune to how extraordinary he is. It’s not just the goals he is the best passer in the world, best dribbler, best free kick taker, he wins matches on his own like never before in a struggling (comparatively) Barcelona side.
All true, but I dislike how people downplay Barca teams to big up the player that least needs it.
 

Zehner

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All true, but I dislike how people downplay Barca teams to big up the player that least needs it.

Some definitely do that but Barca really has been poor as a collective for quite some time now and that's more important than the quality of the individuals on the pitch. There's no concept or idemtity to their football anymore. Sure, there are remainders of possession football because it's rooted in the DNA of homegrown players and simce they are looking for similar transfer targets (de Jong, Arthur) but it doesn't seem as if Valverde gives any instructions at all how they should play in the final third. No patterns, no plan, nothing.
 

B20

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Best goalkeeper in the PL(in a season in which CL sides made up both European Cups finals), best goalkeeper in Copa America, best goalkeeper in CL

The only one comparable statistically as a shot stopper is Oblak, and Alisson blows him away in possession and played a key role on better teams that won the biggest trophies of the year, including a number of vital saves that helped liverpool and Brazil win those trophies
There is still people around who think he just makes simple saves that are nothing special and does little else besides looking confident and passing the ball. They will probably argue that positioning and aggressive goalkeeping are just as big myths as net spend.
 

Prometheus

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Some definitely do that but Barca really has been poor as a collective for quite some time now and that's more important than the quality of the individuals on the pitch. There's no concept or idemtity to their football anymore. Sure, there are remainders of possession football because it's rooted in the DNA of homegrown players and simce they are looking for similar transfer targets (de Jong, Arthur) but it doesn't seem as if Valverde gives any instructions at all how they should play in the final third. No patterns, no plan, nothing.
I get what you're saying but you see I've been hearing the same criticism/complaints of Barca since 2012, and since then they have won a CL and staggering 5/7 league titles. I think most teams go through the same issues but when it's Barcelona it's perceived as more pronounced. Barcelona and Messi have set ridiculous standards years ago and while Messi still continues to uphold those standards as an an individual they were never sustainable for the team/club as a whole.
 
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Shamana

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All true, but I dislike how people downplay Barca teams to big up the player that least needs it.
Barca's own fans do it. They don't rate valverde and don't feel the rest of the team are pulling their weight. When Messi's out they struggle. They are no where near as shit as though. They are just not peak barcalona despite winning the league and making the CL semi final.
 
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Shamana

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Can’t argue with Messi, we are becoming immune to how extraordinary he is. It’s not just the goals he is the best passer in the world, best dribbler, best free kick taker, he wins matches on his own like never before in a struggling (comparatively) Barcelona side.
If Eden Hazard had a season like that there would be no doubt at all that he would win it no matter how good a defender was. For Messi it's just another one of his better seasons.
 

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I get what you're saying but you see I've been hearing the same criticism/complaints of Barca since 2012, and since then they have won a CL and staggering 5/7 league titles. I think most teams go through the same issues but when it's Barcelona it's perceived as more pronounced. Barcelona and Messi have set ridiculous standards years ago and while Messi still continues to uphold those standards as an an individual they were never sustainable for the team/club as a whole.

I see where you're coming from but I don't think that these complaints occurred during the MSN years. Thing is, Barca is a team that's less than the sum of it's parts and it makes every player in there punch below their weight. Since they got insane individual quality they still win stuff but this team right now should at least put up City numbers in the league and win the CL every 2-3 years, that's how good they are if you just look at the squad sheet. Even that MSN Barca side lacked the dominance of Pep's team.

Of course people who downplay the quality of players like Suarez, Griezmann, etc. are going way too far but all in all, Barca has been coached very poorly since Guardiola left and it definitely affects many players in that team.
 

Daysleeper

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Barca's own fans do it. They don't rate valverde and don't feel the rest of the team are pulling their weight. When Messi's out they struggle. They are no where near as shit as though. They are just not peak barcalona despite winning the league and making the CL final.
when did we make the CL final since 2015?
 

giorno

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Their situation is perfectly exemplified by the fact they signed the best DM in the world, who is 22, to play as an #8. Which he is not nor is particularly good at
 

zkap

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Barca's own fans do it. They don't rate valverde and don't feel the rest of the team are pulling their weight. When Messi's out they struggle. They are no where near as shit as though. They are just not peak barcalona despite winning the league and making the CL final.
The team is excellent on paper, all of that is well and good and nobody in their right mind is claiming we have poor players in general. The problem is how those players are managed, and the rot begins with the head. The management reeks of incompetence and cowardice and this is, through Valverde and his staff, translated onto the pitch.

The training sessions are weak and the team lacks courage and drive. So, we have a problem both physically (look at the difference in positions Barça and Liverpool found themselves in during the semis last season, and Liverpool ran us over) and mentally (the team had two historic humiliations in consecutive CL campaigns).

The players that should usually be world class can look like bystanders because there‘s no one to push them to work harder and punish complacency. I’m not saying Barça players are sh*t, but that they’re playing like sh*t, and they‘re playing that way because they have the luxury to. They don’t have to try very hard because they have the world‘s best player on their team and he’s going to do it for them anyway, so why bother.

People like me, people who slate Barça‘s overall collective level aren’t bringing the team down in order to build up Messi. He doesn’t need that. We’re sadly calling it the way it is, and it’s very easy to see if you watch games regularly and pay attention. It’s actually the other way around, people who have an anti-Messi agenda will build Barça up to be this super-team where Messi chokes, as if names on a roster can influence the outcome on the pitch.

Just look at some examples. Jordi Alba is the type of player who cries when the match isn’t going well. Pique is not interested in football that much anymore. Busquets is a shadow of his former self. Valverde’s incompetence and cowardice is exemplified by the fact Rakitić, the master of the backpass, was an undisputed starter in both of the two previous seasons. Upfront we have an unused Coutinho and a player whose tremendous talent was left untouched for two years since he was too busy playing PlayStation. We also have the unprofessional Suarez who gets into shape in the summer when it’s time to play for his NT, while during the season he has a weight problem. Now we have Griezmann who is wasted on the left wing for some reason. All of these names are huge on paper and all of them could be replaced by any decent player tomorrow and the right coach could make it count.

VVD would probably have won if he won the National League as well. It's funny because it's exactly Ronaldo's Portugal that gave Messi his 6th Ballon d'Or.
Great observation and I think it’s true.
 

De Portago

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Their situation is perfectly exemplified by the fact they signed the best DM in the world, who is 22, to play as an #8. Which he is not nor is particularly good at
Yeah, but then senior citizen Busquets would have to be benched more or less permanently, and we can't have that, can we?
 

InterFan1998

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Anyone else confused by Alisson winning best GK award? I’ll acknowledge quality even if they’re at Liverpool (they’ve the best CB, LB and RB in the world plus the best front 3) but Alisson winning best GK ahead of Ederson and Ter Stegen is bizarre.
It made sense to me. I could see Ter Stegen, but Ederson? He's not that great, not to mention that he's Alisson's backup at Brazil and played 0 games in the Copa America, so it would be very strange if he won it ahead of the guy that he's being benched for.
 

Infordin

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I'm confused by your post actually, Alisson winning best gk award was the one non-controversial result(ok, one of the two. Rapinoe was an obvious winner as well)
I don’t know if you know much about women’s football, but Rapinoe winning the award was the biggest joke by far.

She’s played 6 games at club level this calendar year, while there are women out there who have played like 50 games with 20 goals/assists whatever.

She won it because she’s the most popular player on a World Cup winning team. That was a much bigger joke than the Modric Ballon D’Or, because at least Modric had a great Champions League campaign as well.
 

giorno

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I don’t know if you know much about women’s football, but Rapinoe winning the award was the biggest joke by far.

She’s played 6 games at club level this calendar year, while there are women out there who have played like 50 games with 20 goals/assists whatever.

She won it because she’s the most popular player on a World Cup winning team. That was a much bigger joke than the Modric Ballon D’Or, because at least Modric had a great Champions League campaign as well.
Rapinoe was the best player at the world cup. Just like Modric(who did not in fact have a great champions league btw)

People need to understand that the WC isn't just the biggest and most important competition in the world - it's also the only one every journalist watches in its entirety. Again, doesn't really matter if she only played 6 games or what, point is voters are unlikely to have seen more of the others. It's the same thing that goes for the men but probably even more skewed because i don't think a lot of voters pay as much attention to women's football
 

Schneckerl

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What are they supposed to do, spend 10 hours a day watching football games?
The current voting system clearly isn't optimal if you have people voting who don't watch or don't care about football.

People need to understand that the WC isn't just the biggest and most important competition in the world - it's also the only one every journalist watches in its entirety. Again, doesn't really matter if she only played 6 games or what, point is voters are unlikely to have seen more of the others. It's the same thing that goes for the men but probably even more skewed because i don't think a lot of voters pay as much attention to women's football
Again just because nobody of the voters cares about women football and they just selected who ever appeared the most vocal in the media (Rappinoe - she wasnt even the best player during the WC) makes the result not controversial? That such a bad reasoning. It's expected that the voters are uninformed and incompetent so she deserves it?
 
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Enigma_87

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It's a bit of a joke tbh. Sterling 12th behind Mahrez?

Lewa 8th after the season he has had and the start of this one?

Ronaldo also shouldn't be top 3.
 

giorno

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The current voting system clearly isn't optimal if you have people voting who don't watch or don't care about football.
There's only so many hours a day and waaay too much football to watch to come to a fully informed, impartial decision. They have to select, watch the games they can and rely on others who watched the games they didn't. And stats


Again just because nobody of the voters cares about women football and they just selected who ever appeared the most vocal in the media (Rappinoe - she wasnt even the best player during the WC) makes the result not controversial? That such a bad reasoning. It's expected that the voters are uninformed and incompetent so she deserves it?
Didn't Rapinoe win the world cup's best player?
 

Shamana

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Because he's achieved more in the same period both domestically in a new league and internationally.
Messi scored 51 goals in 50 games, lead the assist charts, lead the dribbles completed charts, lead the key passes charts, scored most freekick goals, won another la pichichi trophy, finished CL top scorer and won the La liga.

There was no other player who even came close to his output last year.

Juventus have walked the league for 7 seasons in a row without Ronaldo and I'm sure they would have walked last season too without him.
 

TheReligion

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Messi scored 51 goals in 50 games, lead the assist charts, lead the dribbles completed charts, lead the key passes charts, scored most freekick goals, won another la pichichi trophy, finished CL top scorer and won the La liga.

There was no other player who even came close to his output last year.

Juventus have walked the league for 7 seasons in a row without Ronaldo and I'm sure they would have walked last season too without him.
Ok. I'll go Messi, Ronaldo, VVD. Good points well made.
 

Daysleeper

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Because he's achieved more in the same period both domestically in a new league and internationally.
haha yes joining a team that won the previous 8 serie A’s and then being an absolute ghost in the a lame tournament like the nations league that didn’t even exist before this year.

He didn’t even deserve best player in serie A award let alone ballon d’or
 

Mettaur

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haha yes joining a team that won the previous 8 serie A’s and then being an absolute ghost in the a lame tournament like the nations league that didn’t even exist before this year.

He didn’t even deserve best player in serie A award let alone ballon d’or
I'm on the "Nations League is a Mickey Mouse Cup" boat but he scored a hattrick in the Semi-Final. While he didn't do anything in the Final, that's still one good game out of two which he played in.
 

Infordin

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Rapinoe was the best player at the world cup. Just like Modric(who did not in fact have a great champions league btw)
These two situations are not even remotely comparable.

Modric won the Champions League and was the best player on the pitch in the final (apart from Bale, who was a sub).

Rapinoe, quite literally, did nothing at club level and had a good but not great world cup.

this thread summarizes my feels much better than I could;
 

adexkola

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There's only so many hours a day and waaay too much football to watch to come to a fully informed, impartial decision. They have to select, watch the games they can and rely on others who watched the games they didn't. And stats



Didn't Rapinoe win the world cup's best player?
In college handegg football you have a committee who sit down and watch significant portions of games to decide who the best college teams in America are. It's not a perfect system and there will always be some measure of subjectivity but that is the least you would expect from those handing out a prestigious award, to do their fecking homework. Shit, hire 10 people full time to just watch games and iron out a consensus on who the best players are
 

Mettaur

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Ronaldo should have placed higher than Messi and VVD imho
He joins Serie A and is outscored by Piatek and a 36-year-old. He won the Serie A with Juventus but that's a given since they're the King in Italy. He only played 2 games in Nations League, which is a Mickey Mouse trophy anyway. Even this season, Ronaldo's performances are awful and he is far from the prolific goal scorer we know.