Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

[carvajal]

Jaume Roures:


https://www.marca.com/radio/2023/02/22/63f66a1446163f28568b456c.html

Is this for real????

Sounds pretty harsh coming from a person who endorses the club.
Some say that they are trying to sink the club for good in order to justify the limited company to the members.
The son dealing with the referees and his father giving them marks.
There is an interview with Florentino in 2017 in which he complains about the secrecy of the committee, about assessments when it comes to promotion and relegation.
Today I also read a statement by Jesús Gil, who certainly didn't mince his words, in 1993 saying that Barcelona won leagues thanks to Negreira.

 

[GatoLoco]

Today I also read a statement by Jesús Gil, who certainly didn't mince his words, in 1993 saying that Barcelona won leagues thanks to Negreira.

I watched a video about that and called my attention too. Is this the video that you watched or was it something different??

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I think the year is actually 1994 or 1995 because Negreira says he's only been in the Committee for one year and refers to a Deportivo player mistake, probably Djukic missing the penalty against Valencia that gave Barcelona the victory in the 93/94 league.

 

[GatoLoco]

Jaume Roures has literally said Negreira was the person rating referee's performances at the Nou Camp.

That contradicts Medina Cantalejo's words who said Negreira did not have any important competence in the Committee.

 

[carvajal]

I watched a video about that and called my attention too. Is this the video that you watched or was it something different??

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I think the year is actually 1994 or 1995 because Negreira says he's only been in the Committee for one year and refers to a Deportivo player mistake, probably Djukic missing the penalty against Valencia that gave Barcelona the victory in the 93/94 league.

Yes, that's the one I saw, but I hardly ever play sound and I hadn't heard about Depor.
The video as you say has to be during 94-95. It would be nice to know when Gil said that exactly, maybe on the radio.

 

[carvajal]

It has nothing to do with it but have you noticed that Fabrizio Romano hasn't said a word about all this? (and he did with the Premier's statement about City).
He is not the only journalist who is ignoring the issue.

 

[Nights]

It has nothing to do with it but have you noticed that Fabrizio Romano hasn't said a word about all this? (and he did with the Premier's statement about City).
He is not the only journalist who is ignoring the issue.

The ones being quiet about it are probably the same ones that are fed information from the clubs. They don’t want to bite the hand that feeds them.

 

[Bastian]

So is that 5 CLs then, '09 and '11 added?

Poor Pep, his whole career is going up in flames. All been a fraud. Never expected the "Fraudiola" moniker to have been fashioned by people in the know.

 

[carvajal]

Negreira demanded money from Barça for "so many years of favours rendered and confidences shared".

He worked "so closely" with Laporta, Rosell and Bartomeu, "transgressing many times from the professional to the personal."

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[giorno]

It has nothing to do with it but have you noticed that Fabrizio Romano hasn't said a word about all this? (and he did with the Premier's statement about City).
He is not the only journalist who is ignoring the issue.

Yep. Radio silence by the international media on this has been weird. This is potentially as big and bad as calciopoli

 

[Mb194dc]

Yep. Radio silence by the international media on this has been weird. This is potentially as big and bad as calciopoli

Bad for football business everywhere... Paying the refs and who knows who else?

 

[The Corinthian]

So is that 5 CLs then, '09 and '11 added?

Poor Pep, his whole career is going up in flames. All been a fraud. Never expected the "Fraudiola" moniker to have been fashioned by people in the know.

We just need to find out that Bayern have been paying off posters on a Man Utd forum to defend the Bundesliga at all costs and the circle is complete.

 

[Messier1994]

Jaume Roures has literally said Negreira was the person rating referee's performances at the Nou Camp.

That contradicts Medina Cantalejo's words who said Negreira did not have any important competence in the Committee.

Yeah, Cantalejo’s version might make sense like 2017-2018, doubt this character ‘aged well’, but was he also a nobody who had zero power right after quitting as a 15 year veteran ref at the highest level and immediately getting a top ranking job within the CTA? Of course not, as seen by so many of these articles, he is fronting the organization in relation to media etc. But sure, for a new young ref that came up in 2018 and knew nobody, this guy probably stood out as some nutcase who had no real job.

 

[Messier1994]

We just need to find out that Bayern have been paying off posters on a Man Utd forum to defend the Bundesliga at all costs and the circle is complete.

Haha, honestly, I thought hmm at Barca when Pep played he took steroids, then when he coached they bought refs, and when he has been at City they have in a ridiculous fashion circumvented the FFP rules — but what happened at Bayern?

If you are keen to divulge in conspiration theories, the doctor at Bayern have given a great interview in which he describes how Pep had completely different views of how long a player would be out with injuries, always like half the time that was standard for Bayern’s doctor. So Pep started sending some players to Spain to ‘recover’ faster. But the doc wasn’t that convinced.

Doping has been — very — widespread in football, at least in Serie A and La Liga. There is this idiotic notion that steroids never would help a football player. But that is just nonsense. Sure, a football player eating steroids for breakfast for 15 years wouldn’t work. But after you had your leg in a cast for 3 months? Or as a young player trying to bulk up?

A Swedish former athletic national team coach was sued for rhetorically asking a panel of experts if Zlatan’s weight gain at Juventus during a really short period during his younger 20s (carefully validated by measurements while at the national team) could be achieved naturally? By their standards, it wasn’t even remotely possible. Allegations like that shouldn’t be made, everyone are different stuff that apply to 999 out of 1,000 doesn’t have to apply to that last 1,000th guy that happen to be a unique athlete. But…

 

[Tarrou]

was saying to my mate the other day it’s amazing how this isn’t a far bigger story

he lives in UK and told me he hadn’t heard about it apart from when I sent him a link

 

[Bastian]

Haha, honestly, I thought hmm at Barca when Pep played he took steroids, then when he coached they bought refs, and when he has been at City they have in a ridiculous fashion circumvented the FFP rules — but what happened at Bayern?

If you are keen to divulge in conspiration theories, the doctor at Bayern have given a great interview in which he describes how Pep had completely different views of how long a player would be out with injuries, always like half the time that was standard for Bayern’s doctor. So Pep started sending some players to Spain to ‘recover’ faster. But the doc wasn’t that convinced.

Doping has been — very — widespread in football, at least in Serie A and La Liga. There is this idiotic notion that steroids never would help a football player. But that is just nonsense. Sure, a football player eating steroids for breakfast for 15 years wouldn’t work. But after you had your leg in a cast for 3 months? Or as a young player trying to bulk up?

A Swedish former athletic national team coach was sued for rhetorically asking a panel of experts if Zlatan’s weight gain at Juventus during a really short period during his younger 20s (carefully validated by measurements while at the national team) could be achieved naturally? By their standards, it wasn’t even remotely possible. Allegations like that shouldn’t be made, everyone are different stuff that apply to 999 out of 1,000 doesn’t have to apply to that last 1,000th guy that happen to be a unique athlete. But…

That's very interesting.

 

[caid]

Haha, honestly, I thought hmm at Barca when Pep played he took steroids, then when he coached they bought refs, and when he has been at City they have in a ridiculous fashion circumvented the FFP rules — but what happened at Bayern?

If you are keen to divulge in conspiration theories, the doctor at Bayern have given a great interview in which he describes how Pep had completely different views of how long a player would be out with injuries, always like half the time that was standard for Bayern’s doctor. So Pep started sending some players to Spain to ‘recover’ faster. But the doc wasn’t that convinced.

Doping has been — very — widespread in football, at least in Serie A and La Liga. There is this idiotic notion that steroids never would help a football player. But that is just nonsense. Sure, a football player eating steroids for breakfast for 15 years wouldn’t work. But after you had your leg in a cast for 3 months? Or as a young player trying to bulk up?

A Swedish former athletic national team coach was sued for rhetorically asking a panel of experts if Zlatan’s weight gain at Juventus during a really short period during his younger 20s (carefully validated by measurements while at the national team) could be achieved naturally? By their standards, it wasn’t even remotely possible. Allegations like that shouldn’t be made, everyone are different stuff that apply to 999 out of 1,000 doesn’t have to apply to that last 1,000th guy that happen to be a unique athlete. But…

If your keen to divulge in conspiracy theories, that Bayern doctor has a bit of a reputation himself.

 

[GatoLoco]

There are so many scandalous news being released that I just cannot absorb them.

 

[FreckBarca]

As a little tension relief I bring you this video of Gerard Pique mockingly shouting:

"We don't use drugs, we don't dive and we don't bribe referees. We just play football"

It really aged well

Negreira demanded money from Barça for "so many years of favours rendered and confidences shared".

He worked "so closely" with Laporta, Rosell and Bartomeu, "transgressing many times from the professional to the personal."

Something interesting in this document is that he explicitly says that he worked exclusively for Barca (as per Barca's request). Looks like they are the only team involved.

Oh it's me who was ignorant not you mate.

Tbh I know feck all about Spain and the zillion local, regional, governmental organisations there. So anything 'Royal' means Madrid to me

There are dozens of teams with the "Real" or "Royal" on the name as you can see on the following link.
None of them are actually related to the kings or Royal family. It is more of a fancy ornament to the name and logo (it gives the right to put a crown on it) of a team that has to be requested to and authorised by the king with no other strings attached. Any team can still ask for it but it is not so common anymore, more an old thing. Real Madrid is just the most famous of them all, but you can find other teams in La Liga with the "Real" if you look closely, like Espanyol, Celta, Mallorca, Betis, Sociedad and Valladolid.

So is that 5 CLs then, '09 and '11 added?

Poor Pep, his whole career is going up in flames. All been a fraud. Never expected the "Fraudiola" moniker to have been fashioned by people in the know.

Both Fraudiola and Fraudelona.

 

[sglowrider]

Yep. Radio silence by the international media on this has been weird. This is potentially as big and bad as calciopoli

They are either too busy consumed by the evil do-gooder (Qatar) taking over United or they have not figured out google translate.

 

[sglowrider]

Bad for football business everywhere... Paying the refs and who knows who else?

If you ask scousers.....

Rooney: The gaffer asked me if you got the gold-plated Bentley yet?
Webb: Yes, along side with the Lambo and the yacht that they gave me the previous year. Cheers!

 

[NinjaZombie]

In Portugal we have the same system as Spain (B teams competing in the normal football pyramid) and we have a rule that a B team cannot play in the same or higher division than the main team.
Some years ago Porto B won the second league but as Porto was in the first league they were unable to go up and another team was promoted in their place.

If a main team is demoted to the same division as the B team then the B team is automatically demoted from that division as well.
If a main team goes several divisions down then the B team is also relegated to the division below the main team's new division.
I guess that if the main team goes to the lowest possible division the B team cannot compete in that year (maybe they'll play friendlies or something but in this case the club is in dire situation so it won't really be able financially to have the B team).

Perhaps Barca B can play in the Super League with Barca, Real and Castilla. Have Juve and the other clubs who are desperate for the ESL make B teams and they can easily double the amount of teams in the league.

Maybe Pique could even have a rule in his King's Cup thing where a selected all star team plays in the ESL.

 

[GatoLoco]

I found the relevant part with Roures words yesterday, you can click play for the translation.

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[The Urban Goose]

As a little tension relief I bring you this video of Gerard Pique mockingly shouting:

"We don't use drugs, we don't dive and we don't bribe referees. We just play football"

It really aged well

As a cycling fan since a boy in the 80s, what I love about all cheating cases, particularly those involving doping or bribing authorities, is that Lance Armstrong has done it all before. He's like the Godwin's Law of this kind of thing.

The above, for instance, is mere child's play compared to Armstrong's "What am I on? I'm on my bike for 7 hours a day busting my ass" Nike advert.

Brilliant.

 

[The Urban Goose]

So is that 5 CLs then, '09 and '11 added?

Poor Pep, his whole career is going up in flames. All been a fraud. Never expected the "Fraudiola" moniker to have been fashioned by people in the know.

I haven't been following the timelines, other than Bayern where even Moyes could win titles, are there any trophies that Guardiola has won that aren't now tainted by bribery/doping/FFP etc?

 

[FreckBarca]

I haven't been following the timelines, other than Bayern where even Moyes could win titles, are there any trophies that Guardiola has won that aren't now tainted by bribery/doping/FFP etc?

I'll have you know he won Catalan Person of the Year 2009 Award

 

[cyberman]

https://www.vozpopuli.com/economia_...echa-fondo-de-reptiles-para-los-arbitros.html

Translated in this Reddit thread

 

[Adisa]

Is it that people reportiing this in Spain are not credible? This is virtually a non story in the rest of Europe.

 

[FreckBarca]

Is it that people reportiing this in Spain are not credible? This is virtually a non story in the rest of Europe.

It is coming from El Mundo, one of the 2 biggest newspapers in Spain, the one that discovered Messi's true contract with Barca.
Official documents from the Spanish Tax Agency have been leaked.

This is absolutely huge in Spain

Little extra


Edit to add: there are testimonies of bribing refs:
Negreira´s son (both worked for Barca, the father being the VP of the refs) was driving the refs to the game at Camp Nou when he told them:

“You know: here, calm down. Barcelona has a lot at stake and you can´t hesitate. You are more than prepared. You know exactly what you have to do."

 

[Ragnar123]

Is it that people reportiing this in Spain are not credible? This is virtually a non story in the rest of Europe.

So far yes, for the most part. There are still no facts, proofs or a direct accusation of bribing the referees. There is that shady payment to Negreira and that's about it. Everything else are just rumours or narratives of some biased, some neutral journalists because that topic brings them clicks and money of course.
We have to wait for more facts and investigations. Laporta said that the club outsourced the investigation to a law firm and they will hold a press conference when it's finished.

 

[cyberman]

So far yes, for the most part. There are still no facts, proofs or a direct accusation of bribing the referees. There is that shady payment to Negreira and that's about it. Everything else are just rumours or narratives of some biased, some neutral journalists because that topic brings them clicks and money of course.
We have to wait for more facts and investigations. Laporta said that the club outsourced the investigation to a law firm and they will hold a press conference when it's finished.

The only proof there is shows we paid off the head of referees in Spain
Other than that..nothing

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Ironically only Italian clubs seemingly get punished for wrongdoings. City and Barcelona partying like they don’t give a feck

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Ironically only Italian clubs seemingly get punished for wrongdoings. City and Barcelona partying like they don’t give a feck

Juve done feck up this time around with their book cooking, but I’ve always thought they were treated incredibly harshly for Calciopoli, if not downright scammed of their titles. The investigation found, quoting from wiki ‘Although popularly known as a match-fixing scandal and focused on Juventus, no match-fixing violations were found within the intercepted calls for Juventus, there were no requests for specific referees, no demands for favours, no conversations between Juventus directors and referees were found, and the season was deemed fair and legitimate’. If there were actual payments like what Barca has done here in that case, they would’ve likely been relegated to Serie C with a 50 pts deduction.

So, yeah, the conspicuous silence around this issue from the press pack outside of Spain is interesting, to say the least.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Juve done feck up this time around with their book cooking, but I’ve always thought they were treated incredibly harshly for Calciopoli, if not downright scammed of their titles. The investigation found, quoting from wiki ‘Although popularly known as a match-fixing scandal and focused on Juventus, no match-fixing violations were found within the intercepted calls for Juventus, there were no requests for specific referees, no demands for favours, no conversations between Juventus directors and referees were found, and the season was deemed fair and legitimate’. If there were actual payments like what Barca has done here in that case, they would’ve likely been relegated to Serie C with a 50 pts deduction.

So, yeah, the conspicuous silence around this issue from the press pack outside of Spain is interesting, to say the least.

So what did Juve do wrong then?

 

[Rooney in Paris]

The only proof there is shows we paid off the head of referees in Spain
Other than that..nothing

BUT THERE ARE NO FACTS

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

So what did Juve do wrong then?

Basically there were taped phone conversations between Moggi and referee coordinator regarding allocation of refs for their matches but a) all of them (Italin clubs) were doing it (a subsequent investigation found Inter, who benefited the most from the initial investigation, among those engaged in similar behaviors, but they weren’t punished due to statue of limitations/time-barred) and b) Juve averaged less points from matches with refs investigated than those without, plus the conclusion above. In addition to that, despite no concrete evidence to prove the crime, the conviction literally said their standing at the end of the season means they benefited from a crime they might or might not have committed (!). Juve subsequently sued the FIGC for damages but courts refused to take the suit on technical instead of judicial ground (read: political landmine they don’t want to get involved in).

I’ve no doubt most Italian clubs are shady as feck, Juve included, but they really do seem like an unfortunate scapegoat or victim of a coordinated attempt to bring them down, in this case.

 

[mav_9me]

So far yes, for the most part. There are still no facts, proofs or a direct accusation of bribing the referees. There is that shady payment to Negreira and that's about it. Everything else are just rumours or narratives of some biased, some neutral journalists because that topic brings them clicks and money of course.
We have to wait for more facts and investigations. Laporta said that the club outsourced the investigation to a law firm and they will hold a press conference when it's finished.

What's a little bit of shady unexplainable payment to a ref on a committee?

Nothing to see here.

Not like you have a video of them discussing which opponent to send off or when to give an undeserved penalty. Till then, they didn't do anything wrong.

As someone in a podcast was saying, the result of the payment is immaterial. The fact these payments exist is the fundamental problem. But of course the world/spain is out to get the poor victims of Barcelona.

 

[Ragnar123]

What's a little bit of shady unexplainable payment to a ref on a committee?

If it's unexplainable, it'll look bad.
If it's explainable and even better with proof, that no bribing was involved and it was as the clubs says a consulting job, nothing will happen.

How about we wait for the club's press conference and other investigations to find out which one it is? Wouldn't be the first time people eagerly jump on the bandwagon to insult barca prematurely.

 

[Beachryan]

Out of interest, has there been any explanation of what the payments were for? It's millions of euros, to a single person.

If not for some influence, have Barca confirmed at all what it IS they were getting for their millions? And why only Barca were making these payments?

 

[Strelok]

even better with proof, that no bribing was involved

I've heard of proof of bribing but what can be proof of no bribing? Just out of curiosity.

 

[carvajal]

If it's unexplainable, it'll look bad.
If it's explainable and even better with proof, that no bribing was involved and it was as the clubs says a consulting job, nothing will happen.

How about we wait for the club's press conference and other investigations to find out which one it is? Wouldn't be the first time people eagerly jump on the bandwagon to insult barca prematurely.

A very expensive consulting job, with the person in charge of deciding promotions and relegations of referees, on an exclusive basis.
Even if they don't find a referee willing to sing, I don't think the explanation of the consultancy will satisfy any club.