Benjamin Sesko | Salzburg | Leipzig

Dan_F

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I think the best scenario also for United, if he'd moved now it would likely not be to us, so we can get our house in order in the mean time and if he continues his development we can always go for him next year if we have the need
We’ll not be affording him next season. I can see the release clause being upwards of £80 million now, and Ineos have made it pretty clear they will be looking to sign players before they reach that level.

It’s the right move for him personally to stay another year.
 

dedek_mraz

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We’ll not be affording him next season. I can see the release clause being upwards of £80 million now
all the outlets reporting he made a gentlemans agreement with Leizpig for a future transfer which is logical as he and Leipzig both know that playing there is a stepping stone.
 

Dan_F

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all the outlets reporting he made a gentlemans agreement with Leizpig for a future transfer which is logical as he and Leipzig both know that playing there is a stepping stone.
Yeah but it’ll clearly be higher than this summers, which was reported to be £60 million.
 

Cassidy

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Yeah but it’ll clearly be higher than this summers, which was reported to be £60 million.
And rightly so. I suspect just like this summers it will have a performance component too
 

saik

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We need a new striker this summer as Martial has left and we only have one recognized striker in Hojlund. Unless we continue our tradition of bringing in short term, over the hill strikers for this year, I don't see Sesko being an option again.
 

WeePat

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Good for him really. I think this is what Hojlund should have done in all honesty.
 

romufc

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Good for him really. I think this is what Hojlund should have done in all honesty.
How would that help? Hojlund came into United and was first choice, playing at a higher level, better league, faster league.
 

WeePat

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How would that help? Hojlund came into United and was first choice, playing at a higher level, better league, faster league.
Less pressurised environment. He's actually handled the pressure much better than I expected, but he still struggled a lot, and what feels like half the fanbase think he's utter dogshit. My preference for him was always to stay and develop at a club that fosters that better than in a cutthroat environment at a mega super club. If you go back to his transfer thread, I've pretty much said this since back then.
 

romufc

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Less pressurised environment. He's actually handled the pressure much better than I expected, but he still struggled a lot, and what feels like half the fanbase think he's utter dogshit. My preference for him was always to stay and develop at a club that fosters that better than in a cutthroat environment at a mega super club. If you go back to his transfer thread, I've pretty much said this since back then.
Fair enough. I think it was a good move for him, he has shown he has the personality to play for Manutd. He has also shown in a troubled season he can score goals.

He is 21 and he needs to learn on alot of things, its this fan groups naiveity to think that a 21 year old with 2 seasons behind him will be the finished article.

His numbers were still good enough by the end of the season considering he came in without pre season and was carrying an injury. Its not his fault that we relied on him all season with no backup.
 

ThierryHenry14

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Good for him really. I think this is what Hojlund should have done in all honesty.
At his age it makes sense for him to stay and continue his development. There is no guarantee he can replace Havertz as the #9 in Arsenal. He is young and no rush to move.
 

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He probably made the sensible decision. If he has a big year at RBL that builds on his strong spring, he'll be in much better position to walk into his next club as the presumptive starting #9 and will probably get a significantly higher wage packet as well.
 

criticalanalysis

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Less pressurised environment. He's actually handled the pressure much better than I expected, but he still struggled a lot, and what feels like half the fanbase think he's utter dogshit. My preference for him was always to stay and develop at a club that fosters that better than in a cutthroat environment at a mega super club. If you go back to his transfer thread, I've pretty much said this since back then.
Fair enough. I think it was a good move for him, he has shown he has the personality to play for Manutd. He has also shown in a troubled season he can score goals.

He is 21 and he needs to learn on alot of things, its this fan groups naiveity to think that a 21 year old with 2 seasons behind him will be the finished article.

His numbers were still good enough by the end of the season considering he came in without pre season and was carrying an injury. Its not his fault that we relied on him all season with no backup.
Yeah agree. It was a big gamble for Hojlund and Utd but it's mostly paid off imo, for him in terms of a big contract and the club for his potential after showcasing his qualities in a very tumultuous season.

The fact he comes out of this looking 'good' can only bolster his chances of improving next season because of the experience under his belt. We'll still need another striker but competition/rotation can only be a good thing for Hojlund. Perhaps he may suffer an inconsistent second syndrome but if we actually start to play any semblance of a midfield and more structured football, with the technical qualities and work rate he has shown, it's hard to think how he can't play better or more consistently. That is a big if though, I understand. Especially with our managerial situation and the Euros probably throwing a spanner in the works.
 

TheReligion

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Less pressurised environment. He's actually handled the pressure much better than I expected, but he still struggled a lot, and what feels like half the fanbase think he's utter dogshit. My preference for him was always to stay and develop at a club that fosters that better than in a cutthroat environment at a mega super club. If you go back to his transfer thread, I've pretty much said this since back then.
I’m not sure I understand that. Especially at a club like United who regularly bring through and develop young players.

The pressure is something that takes personality to adapt to but it’s playing under those circumstances that separates the top players.
 

WeePat

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I’m not sure I understand that. Especially at a club like United who regularly bring through and develop young players.

The pressure is something that takes personality to adapt to but it’s playing under those circumstances that separates the top players.
I think a better path for his development would have been to stay at Atalanta for another year or two and then make a big move to a big club. Hojlund has handled it just about okay so far, so I think he’ll be fine in the long run but I also think it would have been easier for him to continue developing away from the spotlight, as Sesko appears to have chosen here.
 

LA BOMBA

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Such decisions always make me question whether the player really has what it takes to become elite, in terms of mentality.

Surely if a big club like Arsenal or Chelsea comes knocking, you have to take the opportunity. Preferring to stay at a club like Leipzig is just baffling and makes you question the self-confidence of the player.

For an elite player, it's always easier to develop in a more competitive environment. Players who fail at big clubs at such circumstances probably never had it in them to begin with. If the pressure for Šeško would be too big now, it will only get bigger in few years if he comes in with an even higher price tag.

Imagine Cristiano Ronaldo staying at Sporting when he was like 21 to "develop". Would never happen. He'd always go to the first big club that comes around. Because that's the mentality that the real top-tier players have, they want to immediately prove themselves and have the confidence to consider themselves as being able to take on the best early in their careers.

I'm also noticing a pattern of Slovenian players being very ambitionless, especially compared to neighboring Croats. Samir Handanović wasted much of his goalkeeping prime at mid-table Udinese despite being considered one of the top 3 Serie A goalkeepers of his generation and the likes of Arsenal being interested. Only won his first title at Inter when he was 37 years old. Josip Iličić was an elite-level talent but wasted his career playing for mid-table Italian clubs. Jan Oblak didn't want to move out of Atletico Madrid where he only won one La Liga and one Copa del Rey, despite being considered the best goalkeeper in the world at some point and could have moved anywhere. Now it's Šeško showing the same lack of ambition, wasting precious years of his career playing for a plastic club with no real competitive goals.

Some countries simply seem to have this type of footballing culture where they're always advised to stay where they are and be settled. I think the reason why Croatia is so good is because they have the opposite of this mentality, their players seem to always go for biggest chalenges as early as possible.

As for Hojlund, I think he definitely developed more as a player in this year at United than he would have if he had stayed at Atalanta. Yes he had struggles but that's the point, you have to go through such experiences as a player to grow. If he stayed at Atalanta for another year he'd have the same problems if he came to United this year, but would just waste another year.
 

Redstain

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Might lack an elite mentality but there's also an element of him knowing himself and being honest, might not have the confidence to play in a more competitive environment at this present point so could be good for him to gather more experience.

I also remember hearing during periods of last season that he wasn't that good, was basically being written off and you look at his goals contributions and you can see why, there was a clear dearth until late January he started the season in bad form then really picked up momentum on the second half / back-end of the season.

I think another season in the Bundesliga is good to comprehend where his median is.
 

LA BOMBA

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If you look at the previous generation of elite strikers like Ibrahimović, Van Persie, Aguero, Benzema, Suarez... When they were 21 they all already played for the biggest clubs they could, historic giants where there was lot of pressure. Even if they were struggling or not always getting opportunities, they were still growing as players.

Van Persie is the best example here. He was a talented striker at Feyenoord but only scored 6 goals in his last season there. He was actually less proven than Šeško and Hojlund are right now. Despite this he made the ambitious move of going to Arsenal when he was exactly the same age these two are now (21), and it paid off. He described how being in an elite club and in a tough enviroment like Arsenal made him grow as a player much quicker. If he had stayed at Feyenoord, he would not have developed as well.

Benzema also moved to Real Madrid when he was 21. Struggled in his first year but still grew as a player because he was at the most ambitious environment where he could be, where failure was not tolerated, and he was training daily with the best players in the world.

This whole idea that a top talent young striker needs to reject elite clubs and stay at a mid club to develop seems to be a recent one, and I can't even think of one actual example where this has worked in player's favour, in the sense that this player would develop into an elite striker down the road. It just doesn't happen, more likely these players just stay mid and continue to play for mid table clubs or flop at big clubs later on.

There are obviously cases of late bloomer strikers, but these guys were not rejecting big clubs to be where they are, they just didn't get the opportunity until later in their careers. Being a striker in your early 20s and not taking an opportunity to move to an elite club where you're guaranteed playing time just never works out well.

Hojlund definitely made the right move to United, and he developed more in this season of struggling than he would have if he stayed at Atalanta and banged 20 goals in Serie A. There's levels to this game, and you need to be at the top level as early as possible if you want to be elite.
 
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stefan92

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Now it's Šeško showing the same lack of ambition, wasting precious years of his career playing for a plastic club with no real competitive goals.
Nonetheless Leipzig won a trophy in each of the last three seasons. Yes, the Supercup last season was a very small one and will only be remembered for being the first match were Kane was denied an expected title with Bayern, but it's still a trophy.

In the same time Arsenal did win nothing. Of course they are a much bigger club than Leipzig, but I am not sure if a player who cares for silverware should make that move, as it looks like at the moment Leipzig has a better track record of winning stuff than Arsenal.
 

Red_toad

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Good for him really. I think this is what Hojlund should have done in all honesty.
I’d say he’d massively disagree. Playing for his dream club, as first choice striker and actually winning an FA cup, as opposed to playing as first choice in Italy and probably winning nothing (Yes I know Atalanta won the EL, but certainly used his fee to strengthen their entire team).
 

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Good for him really. I think this is what Hojlund should have done in all honesty.
Hojlund's first season here has been a positive one, both for him and for us. The context of such a poor season for the club overall (and the hysteria of caftards) masks that.
  • He's settled in, clearly demonstrated a really strong and developing skillset, and is the right kind of striker for the position he needs to fill in our XI.
  • Despite the concerning back issue at the start of the season, he's played 43 games, averaged 71 minutes per game (i.e. mostly a starter).
  • Scored 16 and assisted 2 (10, 2 in the EPL). Moderate return, but acceptable for a 20/21 year old in his first EPL season (and second in a top league).
Now he gets to head into his second season under the same manager who bought him (at United! What a world!), in a side who will hopefully benefit from their first summer window under competent management for a long time, and hopefully will be less disrupted by injury next season too.
 

Dan_F

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Less pressurised environment. He's actually handled the pressure much better than I expected, but he still struggled a lot, and what feels like half the fanbase think he's utter dogshit. My preference for him was always to stay and develop at a club that fosters that better than in a cutthroat environment at a mega super club. If you go back to his transfer thread, I've pretty much said this since back then.
He’s a United fan. I get your reasoning but you don’t turn down that opportunity in the hope that you develop better somewhere else and get another chance to move there.
 

Bubz27

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Imagine being Arsenal. Two best seasons in 20 years, everything looking rosy, absolute need for a new striker and one of Europe's hottest young properties turns you down to wait for a club that finished 8th and already just spent 70m on a promising young striker.
 

stefan92

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Imagine being Arsenal. Two best seasons in 20 years, everything looking rosy, absolute need for a new striker and one of Europe's hottest young properties turns you down to wait for a club that finished 8th and already just spent 70m on a promising young striker.
What makes you think that Sesko's contract extension is in any way related to United?
 

Dan_F

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Imagine being Arsenal. Two best seasons in 20 years, everything looking rosy, absolute need for a new striker and one of Europe's hottest young properties turns you down to wait for a club that finished 8th and already just spent 70m on a promising young striker.
Mad that you think we spent £70 million on a promising young striker to do exactly the same thing two years later. Neither will accept being second choice. He's not ending up here.
 

WeePat

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I’d say he’d massively disagree. Playing for his dream club, as first choice striker and actually winning an FA cup, as opposed to playing as first choice in Italy and probably winning nothing (Yes I know Atalanta won the EL, but certainly used his fee to strengthen their entire team).
Hojlund's first season here has been a positive one, both for him and for us. The context of such a poor season for the club overall (and the hysteria of caftards) masks that.
  • He's settled in, clearly demonstrated a really strong and developing skillset, and is the right kind of striker for the position he needs to fill in our XI.
  • Despite the concerning back issue at the start of the season, he's played 43 games, averaged 71 minutes per game (i.e. mostly a starter).
  • Scored 16 and assisted 2 (10, 2 in the EPL). Moderate return, but acceptable for a 20/21 year old in his first EPL season (and second in a top league).
Now he gets to head into his second season under the same manager who bought him (at United! What a world!), in a side who will hopefully benefit from their first summer window under competent management for a long time, and hopefully will be less disrupted by injury next season too.
He’s a United fan. I get your reasoning but you don’t turn down that opportunity in the hope that you develop better somewhere else and get another chance to move there.
Fair enough chaps. All your responses are valid points. It was just my feeling that staying would put him in better stead than walking into a sink or swim pressure cooker environment. He was incredibly raw at the time, less than 100 pro games to his name. I still feel that he should have stayed, but I obviously acknowledge that he's handled the pressure and responsibility of playing for United much better than I initially thought and he's now well placed to build on that first season.

I'm not going to lie though, there was several times during last season where I thought 'they're gonna ruin him, aren't they?', and as a Denmark fan, it was a bit hard to watch him struggle and then see the fans get on his back.


Apologies for derailing the thread. I did not mean to do that. Happy to take this to the Hojlund thread, if anyone wants to continue this discussion.
 

GoonerBear

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He's obviously trodden a similar path to Erling Haaland, who he is often compared to, both playing for Salzburg, both getting a transfer to the Bundesliga. Haaland probably had clubs at him to leave in the summer of 2021, but between him and the club the decision was to stay that extra season until his release clause kicked in.

He left to go to City after 2.5 years in the Bundesliga, and was further on in his development than Sesko. As much as I'd have liked him, I can fully understand why staying another season when Leipzig are offering to make him star player would be appealing to him.

I don't think Leipzig will make the gentleman's agreement to excessive next year either, that will have come into his consideration as well.

Fair play to the lad.
 

LA BOMBA

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Nonetheless Leipzig won a trophy in each of the last three seasons. Yes, the Supercup last season was a very small one and will only be remembered for being the first match were Kane was denied an expected title with Bayern, but it's still a trophy.

In the same time Arsenal did win nothing. Of course they are a much bigger club than Leipzig, but I am not sure if a player who cares for silverware should make that move, as it looks like at the moment Leipzig has a better track record of winning stuff than Arsenal.
So the German Supercup is a trophy but the FA Community Shield is not?

You have to be completely clueless about football history to make such argument. The German Supercup has only been played since 2010 while the Community Shield has a tradition that goes all the way back to 19th century when it started as the Sheriff of London Charity Shield. Yes it's not really celebrated much in England, but neither is the German Supercup in Germany, and by any other metric Community Shield is not just equal but a bigger trophy.

I'm not saying that the Community Shield is some massive trophy or that it has any relevance regarding where Šeško should move, but to count the German Supercup as a trophy but not the Community Shield is ridiculous. Either both count and both Red Bull Leipzig and Arsenal have a won a trophy last year, or neither counts.

It doesn't even matter anyway, as winning trophies at Red Bull Leipzig, especially the minor ones like cups, is practically worthless. The club has literally no fans, they tried organizing a bus trophy parade for those two German cups they won and only few hundred people showed up, I'm not exaggerating. Leipzig is not a real football club, no one cares about it, it's a business that any ambitious player leaves as soon as a big opportunity comes up. Literally no one will care nor remember about what you win at Leipzig, as there are no fans to keep the memory of it alive.

Winning a pre-season friendly at Arsenal is worth more than winning a cup at RB Leipzig.

If Šeško was at Dortmund like Haaland and winning trophies there I'd understand the point, but Leipzig is a joke.
 

stefan92

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So the German Supercup is a trophy but the FA Community Shield is not?

You have to be completely clueless about football history to make such argument. The German Supercup has only been played since 2010 while the Community Shield has a tradition that goes all the way back to 19th century when it started as the Sheriff of London Charity Shield. Yes it's not really celebrated much in England, but neither is the German Supercup in Germany, and by any other metric Community Shield is not just equal but a bigger trophy.

I'm not saying that the Community Shield is some massive trophy or that it has any relevance regarding where Šeško should move, but to count the German Supercup as a trophy but not the Community Shield is ridiculous. Either both count and both Red Bull Leipzig and Arsenal have a won a trophy last year, or neither counts.

It doesn't even matter anyway, as winning trophies at Red Bull Leipzig, especially the minor ones like cups, is practically worthless. The club has literally no fans, they tried organizing a bus trophy parade for those two German cups they won and only few hundred people showed up, I'm not exaggerating. Leipzig is not a real football club, no one cares about it, it's a business that any ambitious player leaves as soon as a big opportunity comes up. Literally no one will care nor remember about what you win at Leipzig, as there are no fans to keep the memory of it alive.

Winning a pre-season friendly at Arsenal is worth more than winning a cup at RB Leipzig.

If Šeško was at Dortmund like Haaland and winning trophies there I'd understand the point, but Leipzig is a joke.
Did Arsenal win the Community Shield? I was honestly completely unaware of that :lol:
But anyway I mentioned those are a minor point, the cup is much more important both in England and Germany.

And yes you are right, not a lot of people care about Leipzig, but I also said that I assume a player just cares for silverware, so not about the amount of fans. If he does of course all that changes and Arsenal becomes much more interesting.
 

bringbackbebe

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Such decisions always make me question whether the player really has what it takes to become elite, in terms of mentality.

Surely if a big club like Arsenal or Chelsea comes knocking, you have to take the opportunity. Preferring to stay at a club like Leipzig is just baffling and makes you question the self-confidence of the player.

For an elite player, it's always easier to develop in a more competitive environment. Players who fail at big clubs at such circumstances probably never had it in them to begin with. If the pressure for Šeško would be too big now, it will only get bigger in few years if he comes in with an even higher price tag.

Imagine Cristiano Ronaldo staying at Sporting when he was like 21 to "develop". Would never happen. He'd always go to the first big club that comes around. Because that's the mentality that the real top-tier players have, they want to immediately prove themselves and have the confidence to consider themselves as being able to take on the best early in their careers.

I'm also noticing a pattern of Slovenian players being very ambitionless, especially compared to neighboring Croats. Samir Handanović wasted much of his goalkeeping prime at mid-table Udinese despite being considered one of the top 3 Serie A goalkeepers of his generation and the likes of Arsenal being interested. Only won his first title at Inter when he was 37 years old. Josip Iličić was an elite-level talent but wasted his career playing for mid-table Italian clubs. Jan Oblak didn't want to move out of Atletico Madrid where he only won one La Liga and one Copa del Rey, despite being considered the best goalkeeper in the world at some point and could have moved anywhere. Now it's Šeško showing the same lack of ambition, wasting precious years of his career playing for a plastic club with no real competitive goals.

Some countries simply seem to have this type of footballing culture where they're always advised to stay where they are and be settled. I think the reason why Croatia is so good is because they have the opposite of this mentality, their players seem to always go for biggest chalenges as early as possible.

As for Hojlund, I think he definitely developed more as a player in this year at United than he would have if he had stayed at Atalanta. Yes he had struggles but that's the point, you have to go through such experiences as a player to grow. If he stayed at Atalanta for another year he'd have the same problems if he came to United this year, but would just waste another year.
It's fair to say Sesko is not a Ronaldo level talent but more of a Sancho/Nkunku level potential. He still has 13 years of top level football to scale. Moving up too fast, not delivering at that level and then being branded as a failure is a terrible thing that can happen to a footballer. If he wants to take a year to be more confident, then it's fair play to him understanding his own level and path to move forward.
 

MassVolto

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The club has literally no fans, they tried organizing a bus trophy parade for those two German cups they won and only few hundred people showed up,
I had to look this up, you are wrong about this and also alot of other things that I'm not even gonna bother to bring it up.
 

LA BOMBA

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I had to look this up, you are wrong about this and also alot of other things that I'm not even gonna bother to bring it up.
I don't know what you were looking at.

This is the parade.
youtube.com/watch?v=KHqLZ_DxDmc

They couldn't even fill a tiny little square. And most of these people are paid shills, relatives and friends of players.

Imagine winning the first title of your club in history and so few people show up.

There are village teams that gather more people for celebrations.

Red Bull Leipzig is a JOKE. It doesn't exist.