Crespo won 2 prem titles, how many has Berbatov won?
Berbatov or Henry?
- Thread starter GlastonSpur
- Start date
Yeah, if that player scores 23 IN THE PREM
Where where you when we tried to sign him? If we hadn't told him to wait for us to get rid of Ruud to Bayern or REAL, to pick him up, he would be wearing shirt 10 at OT instead of 9 at White Harte Lane.
The question is correct but your answer is plain wrong. Berbatov is the better striker and player. It's clear to the naked eye once you've seen both in action. Your dislike of Berbatov is baffling really..
Please! Berbatov also possesses killer instinct, agility and is superior to Suazo in the air. All he lacks is Suazo's pace but he is no slouch. And he beats Suazo in skill on the ball and vision. That says it all.......
No. There are not that many class foreign players in Serie A nowadays. The last one (Schevchenko) came to England and has done little. While Nedved has been in the second tier of Italian football. With Zlatan blowing hot and cold last season. I won't even mention Crespo for he flopped outside England by his high Serie A standards..
I strongly disagree. First of Tevez is far cheaper than Berbatov. The Bulgarian's price would be silly. Secondly, Berbatov is likely to be the replacement for Saha next summer. I'm pretty certain of this likely outcome. Fergie doesn't almost sign a player, see him go else where and fail to go back for him when he is buyable. And next summer we will be able to blow our entire kitty on Saha and possibly Gary Neville's(if people like Simpson don't cut it) replacements.
Whilst I've no doubt you're right that Fergie is very keen on Berbatov and that he'll try again next summer, whether he'll succeed will depend entirely, in my view, on whether Spurs make top 4 this season.
If we don't, Berby will leave and probably to United. If we do, then Berbatov will not leave regardless of who wants him and Spurs will not sell (just like this summer) regardless of how much is offered. In this latter event, Berby will want to stay with the Spurs CL adventure that he will have helped to create.
Berbatov likes Spurs, feels very loyal to Jol, likes the fans and is not 'yer typical 'follow-the-money' footballer. If Spurs make the CL he'll have that much less reason for leaving and a lot of reasons to stay.
If Fergie wants Berby, he'd better hope Spurs don't make top 4.
Really? I always thought it was the Chelsea team that won the titles and that Crespo pretty much flopped. Silly me.
Dear all,
Can I take this moment to point out, that just as with match statistics, player records don't tell the full story and thus, shouldn't be used solely to judge by, or indeed shouldn't even be used to form the major foundation of any opinion.
This may seem a patronising thing to say, but believe me, some people need to hear it.
Kind regards,
Spammy.
Can I take this moment to point out, that just as with match statistics, player records don't tell the full story and thus, shouldn't be used solely to judge by, or indeed shouldn't even be used to form the major foundation of any opinion.
This may seem a patronising thing to say, but believe me, some people need to hear it.
Kind regards,
Spammy.
Lies, damned lies, and Spurs fans.
Nah! If we win the league and in Europe and we throw 35-40 million pounds cash (IF Berbatov has a blinder)at you guys. You will crumble. A mere champions league adventure would not stop him playing for one of the biggest side in Europe, with the possible chance of winning it outright.
But that is all rumour and conjecture at this point. God alone knows what will happen in a years time. So till the time comes. You hold to your view and I'll hold to mine
exactly statistics are crap
they dont tell the whole story
your 5 european cups can go down the drain then
the no's dont say the true story
Nah, if Spurs finish top 4 (a big IF at the moment) I think maybe you under-estimate the determination of the club to stay top 4 and climb even higher. That ambition would require holding on to Berbatov: Spurs fully realise what a very special player we've found in him and know that selling him, even for huge amounts of money, would be short-sighted. In any case, the significant extra income from CL footie would make us less susceptible to massive bids for Berbatov and Spurs are not short of money even as things stand now.
I know that lots of people now regard Spurs as simply a 'middling' club in terms of status and size, so it's easy to forget that in the far-gone past - back in the 60s and early 70s - we were one of the biggest and most successful clubs in Europe. The club aims to become so again. We have plenty of money, zero debts, we've been on an upward curve since Jol arrived, there are plans afoot for a larger capacity stadium and we retain a very large global fan base.
Some people seem to imagine that the current pecking order of clubs is set in stone. They forget that all empires crumble away eventually. Where are Leeds Utd or Nottingham Forest now? Both were big clubs in their hey-day. Sooner or later one of the current top 4 will start to slide - right now easily the most likely candidate is Arsenal: we've seen plenty of possible signs of this slide from them over the last two seasons.
Again I think you under-estimate the character of Berbatov. He really does appreciate the faith shown in him by Jol, and loyalty and honour are important qualities for him. He gave his word to Spurs last summer and stuck by it, despite a late offer from United that arrived before he had actually signed. He is not your average type of footballer: he's quiet, fairly shy, very modest, paints picture for a hobby and likes exploring obscure parts of London.... A mere champions league adventure would not stop him playing for one of the biggest side in Europe, with the possible chance of winning it outright.
If Spurs do make top I really do believe he'll stay - and want to stay - to carry on in our CL adventure. And if we get there, I wouldn't under-estimate our chances of progressing a long way.
OK Chiefy, will do ... catch you later..But that is all rumour and conjecture at this point. God alone knows what will happen in a years time. So till the time comes. You hold to your view and I'll hold to mine
An exaggeration. The double team was fantastic, no question, but that was 1961 and you have not won the league since. A few more FA cup wins and a cup winners cup did not put Spurs on a par with the best teams in Europe. Did Spurs ever play United in European competition, and who won?
Yeah I will withdraw what I said..............once you withdraw your comments about Berbatov being better than Henry
I don't want to get involved in arguing semantics about whether or not Spurs were 'on a par with the best teams in Europe'. I simply said we were one of the biggest and most successful clubs in Europe - that's not an exaggeration and it doesn't necessarily have to refer just to European competitions.
Here's a few examples from that era, an era in which we became the only team in the top division to ever record 31 wins in one league season:
* 1960-61: The first club in the 20th century to do the league and F.A. Cup double
* Scored 115 league goals in 1960-61
* Created the topflight record - a record that still has not yet been broken - of 11 straight victories from the start of a season (set in 1961).
* Won the FA cup again, for the 2nd successive year, in 1962.
* Reached the final (1962) of the Champions Cup - back in the days when it was for CHAMPIONS ONLY.
* Scored 111 league goals in 1962-63.
* Became the first English club EVER to win a European trophy (the European Cup Winners' Cup in 1963).
* Won the FA cup again, for the 3rd time that decade, in 1967.
* Won the League Cup in 1971.
* 1972: Became the FIRST British club to win two European trophies.
* Won the League Cup again in 1973.
Not quite sure what you are referring to here. If memory serves, Benfica beat Real Madrid 5-3 in the 1962 European Cup Final. Perhaps you are talking about something else.
My mistake, I meant to say the semi-final, not the final.
Spurs lost 3 - 4 on aggregate to the reigning European Champions Benfica, who, as you say, went on to beat R. Madrid in the final.
There are other European semi-finals that we reached, though I didn't mention these in my original list: the SF of the UEFA Cup in 1973 for example. And we also reached the final of the UEFA Cup the following year (1974).
Back when they only had black and white TVs. Depite the fact the following clubs have won more league titles tham them:
Liverpool - 18
Manchester United - 16
Arsenal - 13
Everton - 9
Aston Villa - 7
Sunderland - 6
Newcastle United - 4
Sheffield Wednesday - 4
Wolverhampton Wanderers -3
Leeds United - 3
Huddersfield Town - 3
Chelsea - 3
Blackburn Rovers - 3
Preston North End - 3
They are without a shadow of a doubt one of the biggest and most successful clubs in Europe. You must remember to take the FA cup as being the equal of League titles. Their last major title being something the great R.Madrids and Milan have not had a chance at winning, the Peace cup
Did you also know that Sol Campbell in 5 years at Arsenal won the league title as many times as Spurs have in their whole history and won as many major honours as they have in their last 25 years (excl the Peace cup) and people said he was wrong for leaving? Over the last 25 years Real Sociedad have also won 4 major trophies And finally Berbatov is better than Henry
Never mind Jazz, one day Arsenal will win as many European trophies as Spurs ... one day
Not really. The ambition of Spurs is not in question. I just can't see Berbatov making himself a world star and at 27 when he is at his peak turning down the chance of a guarantee of either winning the league or champions league outright at a bigger club. No disrespect to Spurs but if Berbatov proved a world star and stayed there he would be another Shearer .
Not really. Selling Berbatov for a kings ransom could help you finally add the two classy left wingers that your team lacks, and shore up the depth in every position in your squad. And you will still have Bent. Another star in the making. Besides as good as Berbatov is he is replaceable believe it or not..............
I don't personally. All I know is as you try to break into the top 4. You will lose big stars to the biggest side in Europe. Especially those at Berbatov's age. It's inevitable. The lure of big arena's and guaranteed trophies at places like OT, The Nou Camp and the San Siro would be too hard to turn down for the likes of King and Berbatov.
But in terms of potential, if they keep Wenger around they are still way ahead of you with the likes of Rosicky, Fabregas, Diaby and Denilson. Do not forget that. And you people still lack balance in your squad. That left wing is what keeps you behind them and Pool IMO...
I know him better than you think. First of he turned as down because He gave us a clear ultimatum which we failed to meet. Not because he preferred Spurs. He told us to sign him up before the end of the week you got him. We wanted to sign him but only after Ruud was sold first. But he wanted his future sorted quickly. He told us he had an offer from you and us. And he wasn't willing to wait for us to sell Ruud (which seemed to be dragging on)before we signed him. So when we insisted on waiting till we sold Ruud he agreed to sign for Spurs because they too wanted the deal sorted quickly which to him was a total show of faith. And with him being a loyal fella, he was never going to do what Forlan did to Boro. Even a sweet late bid from us after we had sold Ruud was never going to change his mind. He had given his word to Spurs full stop.
Secondly, he was never going to move this summer. That was a just a tabloid myth and wishful thinking by most fans. His price first off would have been prohibitive, plus he is also too loyal to do that. But next summer is a different story. Especially if he has a blinder (as I expect him to) and leads you into at possible top 4 finish and to a UEFA cup triumph. Interest from the big clubs will finally become concrete. And I can't see him not wanting to replace a player like Saha at OT. After all he did want to join us before he joined you. It has little to do with loyalty. Don't forget would have taken you fellas to the next step in such circumstances..... At 27 he would look at a move to a giant as one last chance to hit the big time. Deep down I doubt you yourself would expect him to turn it down
That's the problem. Berbatov is too good for a mere adventure. He had that at Leverkursen. Have no doubt Spurs is his stepping stone to true greatness at a bigger European Giant if he seizes his opportunity well. At his current age of 26-27. But for your sake I hope he can prove me wrong
Same to you mate
Aww how sweet, the Rubberman has made a friend! Sort those quotes out though, hard to read that last comment
If I may offer a view on Spurs, it is this; they can't hide behind excuses any longer. They've had enough money and have the playing staff to be making the top four now, especially after a pre-season where their biggest rivals and fellow top 4 competitors has lost their greatest ever player (Berbatov a fine striker but let's not be daft now). Time to produce
If I may offer a view on Spurs, it is this; they can't hide behind excuses any longer. They've had enough money and have the playing staff to be making the top four now, especially after a pre-season where their biggest rivals and fellow top 4 competitors has lost their greatest ever player (Berbatov a fine striker but let's not be daft now). Time to produce
Sorry to bump this thread again, but friggin hell!
I thought the scousers were clinging on to history. These aren't exactly massive achievements either. As JazzG has pointed out, you are inferior to over a dozen English clubs.
hmmm. chelsea win two titles and lose crespo and gain shevchenko and united beat them by a fair margin
Abramovich won the titlesill agree with that but crespo def had some important game winners while at chelsea
No one is clinging on to history. I simply pointed out how the cycles of dominance and success can - and do - change, and thus how those who think the current top 4 is forever set in stone are deluding themselves.
I thought you'd embarassed yourself enough in this thread already, without bumping it, but clearly you're a glutton for punishment.
Your latest gaffe is claiming that Spurs are 'inferior to over a dozen English clubs'. We've finished 5th in the league for two seasons running now and are in any case 5th in the all-time, all clubs list of trophy winners. So as usual, and from what I've seen so far, both you and JazzG don't have a clue and are talking your usual bollocks.
It's especially pathetic in JazzG's case, since Arsenal have never won as many European trophies as Spurs and don't look likely to change that any time soon. Indeed, out of all British clubs only Liverpool have won more European trophies than Spurs.
As for 'aren't exactly massive achievements':
* The first club in the 20th century to do the league and F.A. Cup double.
* The first English club EVER to win a European trophy.
* The FIRST British club to win two European trophies.
* The ONLY British team to win European trophies in THREE consecutive decades ....
.. to give just a few examples.
These sound like pretty massive achievements to me. The fact that you wish to run them down says everything we need know about you.
How many European titles have you won and what are they? Just for clarification like ...
Blah blah blah......be that as it may,so fecking what?
Let's concentrate on the here and now
When can you say Spurs were last seen to be genuine title contenders........1962?
They have been unable to fill a top 4 spot.....since when exactly?
Never in the Premiership I'd guess
The only thing Spurs can boast is the biggest bunch of self deluded fans in the Premiership......Big Club?.......My arse!!...............
Yes, let's do that.
The 2007-08 season will shortly be starting. I look forward to it with great optimism, which is probably a lot more than many increasingly nervous Arsenal fans can say.
Good luck, and may the better team finish top 4.
Yeah I wish we win a few more UEFA cups to put you in your place...........oh hang on I'd rather play in the CL and not win it rather than play in the UEFA cup and win thatNever mind Jazz, one day Arsenal will win as many European trophies as Spurs ... one day
The only European trophy that matters to me is
Last time I checked we haven't won any and neither have you, your lot not winning one is understandable but our situation is a disgrace. I am confident that Wenger will win it one day though.
If I'm being honest I was more worried about going into the 03/04 season than I am now......
I'm not sure where all this confidence is coming from you Spurs fans. Your best chance of getting one over us was last season and when we put a decent run of games together early in the season you were left miles behind. The same could happen at any point next season. Your midfield is still average and if you come up against Fabregas and Gilberto in top form they will make your midfield look like a bunch of amateurs. So what good will your magic four of Berbatov, Bent, Defoe and Keane be if they midfield can't provide jack shit to them? Our midfield last season gave most teams a tough time and next season they will only be better, our strikers situation isn't as good but the main thing is they will get plenty of chances to score thus should score a few goals. If you saw us last season our problem was we couldn't put our chances away, next season our players will come into the season more mature with that season under their belt and will only improve so why should I be worried? I feel this team isn't gonna win us a treble but I also know this team is better than 16 in this league and will give the other three a run for their money when we play them. Now if we keep our players fit I think we will do ok, any injury hit seasons like last 2 then we might have problems and that represents your best chance of sneaking in.
I think it comes from the following (quite apart from Henry's departure):
* Our form in the last 12 games of last season, where we picked up 27 points.
* That we've kept the same now-gelled team together (i.e. no loss of Berbatov, for example, as some predicted).
* That we're very unlikely to be without King for as many games this time around.
* That we have a secret weapon - a young attacking French midfielder called Adel Taraabt, who most people will not yet really have heard of, but who genuinely looks destined to cause a real stir this coming season.
* That we've signed Bent, Bale, Kaboul, and look likely to announce at least one more significant midfield signing in the next few days (KP Boateng), and probably one or two other significant midfield signings shortly afterwards.
With respect I think you'll find that view of our midfield to be a little out of date by the time the season get started. It's not just that players like Zokora and Huddlestone are likely to be much better, having digested their first ever Prem season. It's also that players like Taraabt and KP Boateng will start to enter the picture, alongside a couple of other midfielders whose names I won't mention yet.
Don't get me wrong, Arsenal have a very good team and I'm not so foolish as to predict that Spurs will definitely finish top 4. But I do reckon that any Arsenal fans who think that Spurs aren't a fair bit stronger than this time last year, are just locked into state of denial.
I think the best point made in this thread. Why was Henry sold for 16mil? well, Henry said that the only other team he would ever consider playing for other than l'arse was Barcelona. You don't think Barcelona knew this and considering this and his injury they bid so little for him. You don't think Milan or Madrid would have broken the bank for him. I think they would have but he did not want to go there.
As for your original question, considering the injuries and age of both strikers I would take Henry NOW in a heartbeat over berbatov. Berbatov has played one season in the prem, one. He has ont proven himself yet. As for his season in the bundesliga, the prem league is miles ahead of the bundesliga. You can't compare the two leagues.
If Barcelona were to have picked up berbatov over Henry, I guarantee (I know there is no way I can) you that berbatov would not have started as many games as Henry will. You don't think teams in La Liga are shitting themselves right now at the prospect of facing Eto, Ronaldinho, Henry and Messi. Henry will be lifting a la liga title and POSSIBLY a champions league title, while berbatov (I don't think he is guaranteed a starting position) will be battling for starting spot with keane, bent, and maybe defoe and even mido (if not sold before season starts).
This debate is still going on?
Spurs fansFor every Taarabt there's a Denilson at Arsenal, and I know which I'd predict to cause more of a stir.
Is it one 'l' or two in 'deluded' ?
Either way, it's a cracker (LOL)... keep 'em coming.
The better team will finish top 4 and it won't be your lot
It will be Chelsea, Arsenal, United and Liverpool in no order for years. The gap in class between us, the other 3 and then Tottenham is just staggering.
The irony.GlastonSpur said:
Arsenal are a much bigger club than Spurs. It is pointless to say otherwise. It doesn't matter how many trophies you won all those years ago. Arsenal are just bigger than you, as are many other British clubs.GlastonSpur said:
Idiot. I quoted the achievements which i said weren't exactly outstanding. I said nothing about the above achievements. Again, you are living in the past though. At least the scousers have won things fairly recently.GlastonSpur said:
Taarabt is class though, and I would not be surprised if he has a blinder this season. Denilson looks ace also, but wheres he going to get a game? He has Diaby and Cesc in front of him, while Fran Merida is emerging also. On top of that, they're all the same age profile, and need games to develop.
For every Taarabt there's a Denilson at Arsenal, and I know which I'd predict to cause more of a stir.
Bump
Keano 1 - GlastonSpur 0