So which players from the current Arsenal squad would qualify then?
Berbatov or Henry?
- Thread starter GlastonSpur
- Start date
Berb is class, though. To say otherwise is just plain Arsene Wenger.
nope thats what your statements implied
what makes you think berbatov will be able to match his performances over the next few seasons and not go the mido way
however his current season was nothin sensational really
23 goals is not something extraordinary
ruud and henry used to get close to 40 a season
henry at 26 was far more productive than what berbatov is
but thats your way of thinking not mine
the only reason henry didnt outshine berbatov this season was due to his injuries
and due to the fact that he was babysitting all the arse youngsters most of the time he was fit
at the age of 26 ruud and henry had been winning titles at two big big clubs
while at the age of 26 berbatov is at a club like spuds, scoring just 12 or so league goals and a few others in other mickey mouse competitons
hardly anything to be proud of
Actually that's a brilliant return for a player's first season in the Prem.
Not so.
You might just as well ask that about any good striker. What reason is there to suppose he won't be able to match the same performance, or be even better?
He was the 2nd highest goal-scorer in the Bundlesliga in the season before he joined us ... that suggests consistency of good performance doesn't it? He hasn't just popped into existence from nowhere. And his international strike record over several years is phenomenal.
Good for them, but so what? This thread is not about who 'was far more productive' several years ago, it's about here and now and which player would make the better signing for a manager from this point onwards.
That's your explanation. True he was injured for a lot of time, but I think there were also other factors involved. But in any case we'll never know will we, because the fact is that Berby did outshine him, for whatever reasons.
Besides, his injuries are one relevant factor, amongst others, in deciding who would be the better signing for a manager now.
Again, you talking about past glories, not the reality of who'd be the better signing now.
In any case, it easier to win titles at clubs that are big at the time they win them, because the surrounding players are generally better - it doesn't mean there aren't individual players just as good at other clubs. Torres was at not at a big club, now he is - hey presto! Doesn't mean he's suddenly a better player than he was two week ago.
And I don't know why you dragged RVN into this thread - it's about Henry and Berbatov.
Well obviously if he(SAF) thinks Spurs arent a top four team with BerbaGOD, how good is a player if HE can't get his team into Europe, if anything his comments are shitting on Spurs.
thats all u scousers good at then
wanking off pigs
Aww bless. You're not the fizziest drink in the fridge are you?
His quotes didn't mention Spurs in the slightest, so where you get this from is anybody's guess.
We already are in Europe. But if you mean the CL, then how do you know that Berbatov won't help us finish top 4 this coming season? It remains to be seen.
In any case, it's muddled thinking to pin all the responsibility on a single player and then, presumably, to say he's not so good if he fails to carry the whole team all by himself.
What a weird conclusion to draw. He was talking about Arsenal, not Spurs. I can't even begin to imagine how you arrive at this
where's this poll then ffs?
Gallas was but on last season's form wouldn't be there. Cesc will be but is not quite there yet. We're coping with the loss of Vieira, Pires, Henry and Cole. You haven't had a world class player since Jimmy Greaves (OK I'll give you Klinnsmann)
According to you all 'top 4 clubs' have such 'world 22' players, but now comes the lame reply:
"Gallas was but on last season's form wouldn't be there."
"Cesc will be but is not quite there yet. "
"We're coping with the loss of Vieira, Pires, Henry and Cole. "
So in short, the answer is none. Yet Arsenal are still a 'top 4 club' ... strange that.
It's just like your da Silva argument: an obscure player who has apparently suddenly become 'top 4 quality' just because he's signed for Arsenal
"Gallas was but on last season's form wouldn't be there."
"Cesc will be but is not quite there yet. "
"We're coping with the loss of Vieira, Pires, Henry and Cole. "
So in short, the answer is none. Yet Arsenal are still a 'top 4 club' ... strange that.
It's just like your da Silva argument: an obscure player who has apparently suddenly become 'top 4 quality' just because he's signed for Arsenal
Spurs fans who set up Berbatov vs. Henry threads on the caf can expect to be slaughtered. Berby's an excellent player - just enjoy it and forget about Henry. Henry no longer plays in England anyway.
It's an honest answer unlike most of yours: we have one WC player who hasn't done it last season; another who will be world class pretty quick. Others we'll have to wait and see.
You've just thrown your own definition of a top 4 club out of the window by admitting that Arsenal don't currently have any 'world 22 players', so how 'honest' was the original definition? All the more valid a question since your definition was meant by you to show how far short Berbatov falls.
Gallas 'was' before last season?? A world 22 means two players for each position. So Gallas was, season before last, one of best 4 centre backs in the entire world?? That's honesty??
And fabregas (I presume) 'will be .. pretty quick' one of the best 4 central midfielders in the entire world?? And you use such claims as a yardstick by which to measure Berbatov and say it's 'honest'?
'Others we'll have to wait and see.' .... That made me laugh out loud.
If Arsene Wenger thinks he is top four quality, then it is quite likely he is. He is a genius in the transfer market.
£10m.
Verdict: Genius.
Verdict: Genius.
He is human. To be fair, Jeffers was a very good player for his age. Veron was world class before Fergie signed him.£10m.
Verdict: Genius.
Don't get me started on Benitez...
Ok, I guess he's wasted £30m on one player before, oh no wait, he hasn't. Maybe he's wasted £10m on one player, no, not that either.
You're very biased against Liverpool, so your view is usually warped, for that reason and the fact that it's late and I can't be arsed, I won't get you started on Rafa.
You're very biased against Liverpool, so your view is usually warped, for that reason and the fact that it's late and I can't be arsed, I won't get you started on Rafa.
So da Silva is suddenly top 4 quality, even though he's never yet kicked a ball in the Prem, far less scored any Prem goals, whilst Darren Bent - so the original argument would have it - is not top 4 quality, despite having scored more league goals than almost any other striker in the Prem over the last 2 years whilst playing for a weak team, simply because he's signed for Spurs and no top 4 club bid for him?
Jesus, if that's the level of thinking I'm supposed to agree with you can forget it.
Save your energy for better things, you'll go mad arguing on t'internet.
By your narrow definition neither do Arsenal currently have any 'world class' players, as you've already admitted, ergo - according to your logic - Arsenal will finish outside the top 4 also.
Luckily football is played on the pitch, not according to silly 'principles' and 'definitions'.
We shall see who finishes higher this season - Arsenal or Spurs - but your complacency might just be in for a rude awakening.
Is it really that obvious?Ok, I guess he's wasted £30m on one player before, oh no wait, he hasn't. Maybe he's wasted £10m on one player, no, not that either.
You're very biased against Liverpool, so your view is usually warped, for that reason and the fact that it's late and I can't be arsed, I won't get you started on Rafa.
Comparing Wenger and Fergie's record with Benitez's is just plain silly. Benitez's record is so inferior it's untrue.
No offence like....it just is.
That's just incredibly short sighted.
I hate Arsenal passionately, but it is clear they have some world class players in their team.
Arsenal will finish higher than Spurs this season unfortunately whether you like it or not.
Yes but some of those silly principles (like having better players) tend to impact on overall performance. The last bloke to take me on in a Spurs v Arsenal finish lost (as you might guess) do you feel lucky punk?
In case you missed the earlier posts, I was referring to Mr. Storey's own definition of a 'world class' player, namely one of the top two players in the entire world in any given position.
Do Arsenal have any such players? No, clearly not.
Having better players or not has nothing to do with principles. All that's happened is that you've trapped yourself in increasingly bizarre claims about the place of Arsenal players in a 'world 22' squad ..... and then made some strange jump from there to top 4 quality.
Well, as they say in small print on share-related financial documents, "past performance is no guarantee of future profits". And yes, I feel very lucky.
I can't believe what I'm reading, this guy has had a half decent season and this Spurs fan reckons he is one of the best strikers in the world, unbelievable......
RvN
Henry
Eto'o
Ronaldinho
Rooney
Totti
Crespo
That is a few strikers off the top of my head who are better than Berbatov, there might be more but I can't be bothered to think about it more....
Have a close look at that picture, you will see Thierry Henry doesn't look out of place there. Could you say the same for Berbatov.......oh hang on you will probably say he deserves the award
There was another player who left your lot recently and won a title in his first season at his new club. Infact he has won as many league titles as Spurs have in their whole history in his 4-5 year stay at this club. Do you remember who I'm talking about? If a player wants to finish 5th or 6th, have a few good cup runs Spurs is an ideal club for them. Big players want to win major trophies, that is something you probably won't achieve anytime soon so I wonder about Berbatov's ambition.
Under Wenger we have scraped 4th place once and last season despite our players all but throwing the towel in from March onwards still comfortably got 4th place.
Though you are right about our European record, it is something to be ashamed of. Now I know how you lot have felt all these years about your lack of trophies in general and I feel your pain
If we keep our players fit you won't even be close, that is something deep down all you Spurs fans realise. Last season injury problems caused chaos again in our team but eventually that will stop. The season before when you were ever so close we were down to our 6th or 7th choice LB and Flamini playing there FFS! Without those injury problems your club wouldn't of even come close to stopping us and when we turned the pressure on
See we can get into posts where we pick the faults out of each other but it will achieve nothing so I think we will have to agree to disagree here....
I'm sure you could find more flops from Wenger and I'd post pics of transfer flops at Liverpool but I'd be here all night posting pictures. Now let us look at a few of the players he has signed below and wonder if he is any good in the transfer market when these 5 players is have cost us around £30mill (£6mill each) and 4 of them have been sold for almost £55mill after we had got the best out of them and we have just had another £20mill+ offer for the 5th player.
- Gotta love that mullet
Been a long time since you have had a team full of players like that, back when disco pants were the thing.....
Messi
RvN
Henry
Eto'o
Ronaldinho
Rooney
Totti
Crespo
That is a few strikers off the top of my head who are better than Berbatov, there might be more but I can't be bothered to think about it more....
Have a close look at that picture, you will see Thierry Henry doesn't look out of place there. Could you say the same for Berbatov.......oh hang on you will probably say he deserves the award
Oh if that is the case then Henry would still make the better player to purchase. Only a Spurs fan or some bitter mancs would say otherwise.
Of course a manager wouldn't take into consideration a player who has scored 20+ goals for 7 seasons straight and take Berbatov ahead of him right? When we think of records Darren Bent scored more goals than him last season, playing for a much worse team
When you take his age into consideration and the fact we were quite willing to let him go then no we weren't gonna get £25mill. I'll tell you what though, 3-4 years ago we would of got close to a world record fee for him. We won't be saying that about Berbatov any time soon
Hilarious, just like Michael Carrick wasn't for sale? Spurs will sell their best players if a good offer comes in because just like Carrick they realise you lot are just stepping stones for bigger and better things. Carrick has won a PL in his first season, something he would of never achieved at Spurs. Manchester united wanted Carrick so they got him, they don't want Berbatov so they aren't gonna get him, is that really hard to understand for you? Instead they are going for a player who would cost the same and has potential to be much better which is what most big clubs do.
There was another player who left your lot recently and won a title in his first season at his new club. Infact he has won as many league titles as Spurs have in their whole history in his 4-5 year stay at this club. Do you remember who I'm talking about? If a player wants to finish 5th or 6th, have a few good cup runs Spurs is an ideal club for them. Big players want to win major trophies, that is something you probably won't achieve anytime soon so I wonder about Berbatov's ambition.
The same Arsenal team who played in a CL final with probably Wenger's worst team? We all know about Barca's huge history in the CL hence him going there right? If he wanted CLs he would of gone to someone like Milan or R.Madrid as over the course of history they have been the best in that competition
Under Wenger we have scraped 4th place once and last season despite our players all but throwing the towel in from March onwards still comfortably got 4th place.
Though you are right about our European record, it is something to be ashamed of. Now I know how you lot have felt all these years about your lack of trophies in general and I feel your pain
Playing in the CL is one thing but surely the whole point of playing in it is to win it? Surely he should join Celtic/Rangers if he wants to play in the CL every season but not win anything. Oh but at least he would win a trophy or two there
Pushing hard like last season when despite however hard we tried to throw it away towards the end you came nowhere near in the end. We were rubbish and you still didn't have a chance, what makes you think you will do any better? Your midfield is full of average players and just because you have 20 of them it doesn't make them any good. Your best CMs are probably that fat cnut Huddlestone and Jenas, players who wouldn't get in our second string midfield. Instead we have players like Fabregas, who clubs like Real Madrid want to build their team around and players like Gilberto who captain teams like Brazil. If not go get a DVD of your last season games and watch the Carling cup match at White Hart Lane where a team of mainly second string players played your first team off the park in the 2nd half and look at the difference in quality. Or even the 3-0 hammering you took at our ground or even the game at your ground when it took a pot shot from distance to salvage an undeserved point. Spot any difference in quality yet?
If we keep our players fit you won't even be close, that is something deep down all you Spurs fans realise. Last season injury problems caused chaos again in our team but eventually that will stop. The season before when you were ever so close we were down to our 6th or 7th choice LB and Flamini playing there FFS! Without those injury problems your club wouldn't of even come close to stopping us and when we turned the pressure on
See we can get into posts where we pick the faults out of each other but it will achieve nothing so I think we will have to agree to disagree here....
Actually cost us around ~£4mill rising to £8mill£10m.
Verdict: Genius.
I'm sure you could find more flops from Wenger and I'd post pics of transfer flops at Liverpool but I'd be here all night posting pictures. Now let us look at a few of the players he has signed below and wonder if he is any good in the transfer market when these 5 players is have cost us around £30mill (£6mill each) and 4 of them have been sold for almost £55mill after we had got the best out of them and we have just had another £20mill+ offer for the 5th player.
Been a long time since you have had a team full of players like that, back when disco pants were the thing.....
Well Gallas was one and uninjured can be again and Fabregas will be, van Persie might be. As I said before Spurs don't have any and haven't had any since Klinnsmann.
OK put your money where your mouth is (proceeds to the caf) £50 sez you'll finish out of the top 4.
I am talking about the here and now only
Henry > berbatov any day any time.
He aint injured now
and given our current situation
if united were to choose between a 29 year old henry or a 26 year old berbatov keeping my arse hatred and bias aside
Henry would be the logical answer
feck henry
If i had to choose a striker from spurs and if we had top pay over the top I would choose Bent over berbatov
bent is quicker, younger and sharper
he has proved that with clubs like charlton ffs
You talk about torres
he wasnt at a big club
and now hes at a relatively big club
Liverpool are still not close to us no matter what the scouse twats think or say.
Babel, torres, yossi gimme a break
torres is good very good
but at liverpool i doubt he will fulfill his potential
point being Barca couldnt give a shit about berbatov, but they wanted henry badly
and they got him
Rijkard > GlastonSpur
Actually cost us around ~£4mill rising to £8mill
I'm sure you could find more flops from Wenger and I'd post pics of transfer flops at Liverpool but I'd be here all night posting pictures. Now let us look at a few of the players he has signed below and wonder if he is any good in the transfer market when these 5 players is have cost us around £30mill (£6mill each) and 4 of them have been sold for almost £55mill after we had got the best out of them and we have just had another £20mill+ offer for the 5th player.
- Gotta love that mullet
Been a long time since you have had a team full of players like that, back when disco pants were the thing.....
£8m, shoot me I was out by 2. Either way it was and still is a laughable signing. The thing with Rafa's dealings is that his players that haven't made it are still actually good players (Nando and Gonzalez).
Wenger has, on the whole, bought well, there'll be no denial from me, just a little chuckle at cries of 'genius'.
In 10 years it'll be nice to sit down and tell you about how well Rafa's purchases have worked out, hopefully by then the myth that he is useless in the transfer market will be dead and buried.
You'll have to do better than that.
Henry scored just 10 goals last season, has become injury prone, sulks, is knocking on a bit, has lost at least some of his pace, puts down his team-mates and has a reputation for bottling it in big games, so no sensible manager would now sign him in preference to Berbatov. SAF has just said that Arsenal are 'better off without him"
No he didn't. Berbatov scored 23 goals.
'3 -4 years ago' ... says it all really in terms of the question I posed at the start of this thread.
Carrick wanted to leave and was nearing the end of his contract. Berbatov doesn't want to leave and has years left on his contract. Spot the difference yet?
PS. Spurs have already turned down an offer of more than 25m for Berbatov.
You've no more knowledge than me as to whether United want - or wanted -Berbatov, so don't pretend you do .. it just makes you look silly. Does Tevez have more potential than Berbatov? Anything is possible I suppose, but most fair-minded people know it's unlikely. Besides, Berbatov is more about actual deliverance rather than potential - hence his 23 goals and 15 assists. How many goals and assists did Tevez get last season?
I guess any excuse for losing will do eh?
At last a decent question. How about the fact that:
* we now have the best quartet of strikers in the Prem
* King missed a lot of last season due to injury - probably won't happen that way this next time around
* we've signed a quality CB (Kaboul) to provide cover for King and Dawson
* we've signed a LB (Bale) with huge potential
* After our poor start last season we got better and better as the season unfolded, finishing the last 12 games very strongly - that same now-gelled team has stayed together and will enter this coming season
* Arsenal are weaker - club in disarray (Dein sacked, Gallas and other players complaining), Wenger's future uncertain
* Henry gone - your captain and talisman
That'll do for starters.
OK, let's do that.
OK, if you'll do the same if Arsenal finish out of the top 4 then you have a bet. Agreed?
RvN, Roon and Totti, all better than the Berb. But that's hardly an insult towards him, these are the best players of their generation. Berb is fecking class.
Henry is more of a risk because of his injuries, but he is also a much better player, despite his age. Berbatov scored a lot of his goals against shit teams like Bruges and Arsenal's Youth Team in the Cups. Only goal he scored against a Top team was vs Chelsea in the 3-3 draw in the Cup. Dimitar is so highly rated because a lot of the goals he scores are spectacular.
I'd take Henry based on talent.
I'd take Henry based on talent.
Isn't that what you are doing with Henry? But honestly Arsenal are worlds better than Spurs. They have an actual GK (robbo = shitto), a world class CM in Fabregas and Gilberto vs your Jenas and Zokora pairing (thats been know to set the world afire, NOT), oh and your lovely strikeforce vs theirs minus Henry, but tbh I figure their top 3 strikers (Van Persie, Adebayor and Da Silva) will score more than Bent, Berbatov and Keane. Oh and I cant wait to look at this post at the end of next season after spurs shit on themselves and dont even make the uefa cup, then again I'll probably give a shit less about spurs by then as United vie for the Treble.
Exactly. Henry isn't that best as a lone striker. Isn't dominant in the air. Plus he loves to drift to the left a bit too much. And his work rate is declining. Not forgetting at 30 he is a short term solution to a long term problem. Not what United would need.
On the other hand Berbatov is great on his own. Sticks to the box like most predators if its needed. Though he lacks Henry speed he matches him i n everything else and beats him in the air. Plus he is 26 so would be a long term solution to a long term problem. Exactly what United need.
Claiming Henry would be a better signing is silly. It's only based on Henry being a better player not on the bigger picture. As in what's best for the club that would sign him and what is best long term.
Thus states the chief
Hear Hear
& That's the fecking truth
Berbatov is better than RVN, Rooney, Henry and Totti? 