It’s not acceptable but there are enough reasonable mitigating factors to understand why it happened and those factors won’t last for long.I'm just calling a spade a spade.
The thing is, it's really difficult to compare managers in this way because most clubs generally change their managers on an annual or biannual basis. Hodgson is one of the longest serving current managers in the Premier League. Out off the current managers only Dyche, Klopp and Guardiola have spent more time in the Premier League at their current respective clubs. (I'm not counting Nuno and Wilder here because they've spent some time in the lower divisions).If Hodgson has the best record against the top 6 away from home in the PL up to when that article was written, how can a poor record be the standard? It defies common sense. The points seem low because most sides come away with few points from those fixtures given they’re the hardest in the league by definition.
Difficult to see what else they could have done to be honest, in terms of planning. A lack of planning is the right complaint though.I'm just stunned that the club negotiated a generous arrangement where they could start the season a week later, and then didn't bother to actually utilise that period to properly prepare. The arrogance to just rock up at Old Trafford yesterday in that condition is staggering, Again, contrast with Bayern. They win the treble and their staff and players prepare for them to be ready to win 8-0 with no delays less than a month later.
I usually agree with much of what you say, and agree with the general principle of not knee-jerking, but this is genuinely one of the lowest moments supporting United for me. We were embarrassing yesterday and have been all summer. I was ashamed to be supporting that.
If beating Palace at home is false expectations what's the expectations we're supposed to have? Come on man.It is just easier to accept we are a top 6 team and so it is ok to have off games now and then. False expectations of kicking off from last season's position is what is making us to moan our defeats.
That isn't my point. We (fans) are expecting to win every game, because we think we are building over last season's position/form. But we are only targeting top 4-6 (as evident by lack of support from our owners/CEO).If beating Palace at home is false expectations what's the expectations we're supposed to have? Come on man.
Palace at home still should be an easy win even if we are only targeting top 4 or even 6th.That isn't my point. We (fans) are expecting to win every game, because we think we are building over last season's position/form. But we are only targeting top 4-6 (as evident by lack of support from our owners/CEO).
Maybe we should revise our expectations.
The thing is though, we're not as good as City to be able to swath sides away who are much fitter than us. Equal level of fitness and we have superior quality to the majority of teams in the league. As we were yesterday though? Would need to get the early goal to be able to do it.Lack of fitness is not an excuse for Man United to be slapped by Crystal Palace, having precisely 1 good chance (Greenwood) aside from the goal in the process.
Give this Palace team to an unfit Man City and they’d still hammer them. In fact, I think City will beat Wolves tomorrow, a far better team than Palace.
No excuses. We were shit and players like Lindelof, TFM and James all have to go.
My view on it. If we're still playing this way a few matches in then that's troublesome.You’ve just come off a 14 game unbeaten run in the prem, on paper the team you have now is stronger than the one that started last season. You looked like a rusty team with no preseason, they looked like a team playing their 3rd competitive match of the season.
I can understand the frustration of losing to Palace at home and dropping the points might prove to be crucial later in the season. But I would not be worried by last nights game, if you’re playing like that by your third match if the season then I’d begin to worry a bit, but right now it’s an annoying loss but no predictor for how the rest of the season will play out.
Once again you are arguing a completely different point to the one I was making in the OP. I do expect us to beat Crystal Palace home and away - in ordinary circumstance. No matter what mental gymnastics you may wish to perform, Covid-19 has made these circumstances unusual - to say the least. In a sport where players play at the physical limit conditioning is of massive importance. Covid-19 has disrupted world football in unprecedented ways and as such we’ve not been able to prepare physically for the start of the season whereas Crystal Palace have, this gave them a significant advantage.The thing is, it's really difficult to compare managers in this way because most clubs generally change their managers on an annual or biannual basis. Hodgson is one of the longest serving current managers in the Premier League. Out off the current managers only Dyche, Klopp and Guardiola have spent more time in the Premier League at their current respective clubs. (I'm not counting Nuno and Wilder here because they've spent some time in the lower divisions).
That article you posted doesn't say that "Hodgson has the best record against the top 6 away from home in the PL". The article references the 2016-17 season, where Roy Hodgson wasn't even managing Crystal Palace, Pardew and Allardyce managed them that season. We have to look at the facts as they are NOW, not as they were a couple of years ago. If you wanna look at managers records against the big sides, you have to count the most recent season too. You can't say "Oh last season doesn't suit my point so let's just write that off as irrelevant".
The fact is since Hodgson took over Crystal Palace he has gathered 12 points in three years. Dyche at Burnley has 11 points in the same period (12 points in four years if we include the season your article references). Nuno has 14 points in two years since Wolves got promoted from the Championship. Again, Palace's record is nothing spectacular. And like I said, managers get sacked so often that it's difficult to get a proper comparison here.
And don't get me wrong, I don't think Hodgson is a bad coach, he's done all right at Palace and they have a couple of solid midtable players in their squad. But I would still expect us to beat them and the likes of Burnley at Old Trafford despite them gathering 11-12 points away from home against the top 6 in the past three seasons because we have better players and should have a better coach too. Your standards are clearly lower.
We can't have our cake and eat it. It's much better to prioritize lasting the season than going out fast and then doing a Leicester of last season. We were clearly banking on incoming signings and superior quality to see us through this first month until the players are up to speed.Just so it’s clear. Our problem is a lack of match fitness because we didn’t have a pre season and play enough games YET it was us who decided to start pre season late over some pedantic ‘30 day rule’ so that our players wouldn’t get tired from playing and training too much during pre season.
Okay.
Exactly. The Arsenalification of United is complete.In what world are we challenging for the title? Our owners don't strengthen past being top 4 challengers. The issue is that you need to keep strengthening every summer just to at least maintain, which they don't understand. If we do nothing in these last 2 weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if we finished purely mid table, like 8th. There's 9 quality squads in the league who all have reasons to be optimistic and feel like they can fight for top 4 (city, liverpool, chelsea, United, arsenal, spurs, everton, leicester, wolves). We'll do well to even finish 4th as it is.
Which games should we "expect" to win then?That isn't my point. We (fans) are expecting to win every game, because we think we are building over last season's position/form. But we are only targeting top 4-6 (as evident by lack of support from our owners/CEO).
Maybe we should revise our expectations.
This is just ridiculous. Our players were professional enough to keep in shape during the suspension and we blitzed our fixtures due to that. All the teams were on an equal footing with regards to match fitness. However, we had better quality, fitness and professionalism so did better than all the other teams. Now we're saying the players don't keep themselves in shape over a holiday? Wrong. They're in good enough physical shape but that counts for nothing as all the teams will have players in good physical shape.Nail on the head. Absolutely farcical. We’re not Man City, we don’t have players who are in top condition and who are professional enough to maintain a basic level of fitness.
We’re the complete opposite and I wouldn’t have trusted our players to keep themselves in good condition with such a short pre season.
If there was a like button, I would have exercised my opinion about this post of yours.The thing is, it's really difficult to compare managers in this way because most clubs generally change their managers on an annual or biannual basis. Hodgson is one of the longest serving current managers in the Premier League. Out off the current managers only Dyche, Klopp and Guardiola have spent more time in the Premier League at their current respective clubs. (I'm not counting Nuno and Wilder here because they've spent some time in the lower divisions).
That article you posted doesn't say that "Hodgson has the best record against the top 6 away from home in the PL". The article references the 2016-17 season, where Roy Hodgson wasn't even managing Crystal Palace, Pardew and Allardyce managed them that season. We have to look at the facts as they are NOW, not as they were a couple of years ago. If you wanna look at managers records against the big sides, you have to count the most recent season too. You can't say "Oh last season doesn't suit my point so let's just write that off as irrelevant".
The fact is since Hodgson took over Crystal Palace he has gathered 12 points in three years. Dyche at Burnley has 11 points in the same period (12 points in four years if we include the season your article references). Nuno has 14 points in two years since Wolves got promoted from the Championship. Again, Palace's record is nothing spectacular. And like I said, managers get sacked so often that it's difficult to get a proper comparison here.
And don't get me wrong, I don't think Hodgson is a bad coach, he's done all right at Palace and they have a couple of solid midtable players in their squad. But I would still expect us to beat them and the likes of Burnley at Old Trafford despite them gathering 11-12 points away from home against the top 6 in the past three seasons because we have better players and should have a better coach too. Your standards are clearly lower.
Also, Bayern is miles better than every other team in their league. Same situation for them as us and they'd win 4-0 instead.Bayern’s a different case again because their season finished earlier. They had a long rest period before the resumption of the CL. This is the disruption of Covid and how it is affecting teams differently.
And there will be the Euros next summer so let's write off next season, too, just to be safe. Then there will be the Qatar World Cup to disrupt our season so... maybe 2023/24 will be our year?Best to write off this whole season as irrelevant as well.
You mean during a global lockdown when literally all they could do was workout?This is just ridiculous. Our players were professional enough to keep in shape during the suspension and we blitzed our fixtures due to that. All the teams were on an equal footing with regards to match fitness. However, we had better quality, fitness and professionalism so did better than all the other teams. Now we're saying the players don't keep themselves in shape over a holiday? Wrong. They're in good enough physical shape but that counts for nothing as all the teams will have players in good physical shape.
Good teams regularly lose to bad teams in preseason who are further along with match fitness. When the season starts those bad teams then lose 9/10 times.
I'm trying to show you that Crystal Palace's away record or overall record against the big sides isn't as impressive as you claim. Like I mentioned in my original reply to you, Palace have only won two matches against the top 8 sides in the last 13 months. Both of them coming against us at Old Trafford. And Hodgson doesn't have the best away record against the top 6 either, like you claimed. Nuno for example has bettered him in only two years for example, like I mentioned in my previous reply. Get your facts straight.Once again you are arguing a completely different point to the one I was making in the OP. I do expect us to beat Crystal Palace home and away - in ordinary circumstance. No matter what mental gymnastics you may wish to perform, Covid-19 has made these circumstances unusual - to say the least. In a sport where players play at the physical limit conditioning is of massive importance. Covid-19 has disrupted world football in unprecedented ways and as such we’ve not been able to prepare physically for the start of the season whereas Crystal Palace have, this gave them a significant advantage.
I contested the assertion that Palace should be considered a home banker. They’ve done well against the top 6 away. They took 4 points off City at the Etihad in the past two seasons, for example.
Im arguing that there is not much to be learnt from the game yesterday because of our disrupted preparation.
I’m sorry but how is delaying our pre season by two weeks now going to benefit us next year? It has hindered us now.We can't have our cake and eat it. It's much better to prioritize lasting the season than going out fast and then doing a Leicester of last season. We were clearly banking on incoming signings and superior quality to see us through this first month until the players are up to speed.
I'm writing off all our seasons until the Glazers or Woodward are gone.And there will be the Euros next summer so let's write off next season, too, just to be safe. Then there will be the Qatar World Cup to disrupt our season so... maybe 2023/24 will be our year?
Yeah, that's probably the realistic take unfortunately. The Glazers are still taking out dividend ls every year, the value of the club is increasing so I can't see them leaving any time soon. We're probably looking at 15-20 years without a league title, a la Arsenal.I'm writing off all our seasons until the Glazers or Woodward are gone.
There really isn't any hope left. The club is dead, living off past glories.
Even though they have one of the best records against top 6 away from home?No. Just no. Palace at home should not be a loss.
