But beating Chelsea home and away and City home and away isn't an indicator?
Best to write yesterday’s game off as irrelevant
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Wolves didn’t have a pre-season you are correct but they played a side that were on their first competitive game of the season and not their third. They did well to beat them but would have been a lot harder for them if Sheff United were on their third competitive game and were at full fitness. SU were well in that game though, they missed their chances at key moments. Palace took theirs unfortunately and had the rub of the green with VAR.
My point is that we simply don’t know if we’ve bodged the fitness because it’s the opposite of a short term dynamic. The planning has to be for 38 games, not 1. The collective shitting of the bed on here after one game has been bizarre and pathetic.
Im not advocating for Ole here, or saying that we’ve got the fitness right or that we don’t need reinforcements (we do). Only that this one game tells us next to nothing and that the Hysteria is absurd.
I will concede that you are right on Palace‘s record. Sky highlighted that it was comparatively good one during the match last night so that’s why it was in my head.
Best to write our season off as irrelevant if we dont improve our starting XI. We have made the lease number of signing out of all clubs in the Premier league. Unforgivable
Ah yes must be that dastardly fitness issue again. Every time we lose a game it's just fitness lads nothing to see here, might as well make it 3 seasons in a row people trawl that one out.
We've lost match fitness very fecking quickly haven't we considering the turn around in between our last and first game.
We've lost match fitness very fecking quickly haven't we considering the turn around in between our last and first game.
It’s the same for everyone. No excuses. If you start a game with Championship level players like TFM, McTominay & James, what do you expect to happen?
No it isn’t. Palace had a pre-season and are on their third competitive game. How is that the same as United’s situation?
You seem to be living in a world where the end result of a game depends highly on the names of the teams involved. Believe it or not our level is closer to Palace rather than to Liverpool and City. All teams around us are reinforcing their ranks and we're not, thus results such as the one yesterday will occur more often than not.
You’re just making excuses for a shocking performance from both manager & team.
Last season Ole came out talking about how great our fitness was. I think it may have been around the end of the season. We then proceeded to look shite for the rest of the games.
I don't buy this fitness excuse.
I don't buy this fitness excuse.
Our back 5 was/is pathetic. That concerns me.
The lack of confidence slowly crept to the forward line and it looks like it's here to stay.
The only positive is we technically scored a goal from open play.
The lack of confidence slowly crept to the forward line and it looks like it's here to stay.
The only positive is we technically scored a goal from open play.
Explain how the fitness levels of a team that had a pre-season and two competitive games is the same as a team that had no pre-season and no competitive games?
I think Palace having played 7 games vs us playing 1 friendly is a difference even if we don't like the result. First touch, up to speed with the game and match fitness is a legitimate difference-maker.
That being said our concentration and effort generally seemed lacking rather than a physical issue.
That being said our concentration and effort generally seemed lacking rather than a physical issue.
Absolutely. Yesterday didn't even surprise or anger me. I came to accept where we're at a long time ago. The team and Ole, unfortunately, are nowhere near good enough collectively. The best thing I could say about us is we have players that can produce enough sporadic moments between them, across the season, to keep us in and around top 6. That's nothing to write home about.
Ok. Let's consider every game against them at OT every season as an automatic loss then.
The amount of denial and excuses people are bringing for such loss to make it look better than what it is, is on RAWK level.
Losing to CP is bad enough. Losing to them at Old Trafford is crap. Losing to them at Old Trafford by 3 goals is a disgrace.
6 points behind Liverpool. I wonder if that'll be lower at any point this season, even with that game in hand.
We saw that exact performance many times last season. Even in the QF and SF of the Europa League, after having a good break during lockdown followed by a number of games to get back up to speed.
Yes, the fear has to be that that will just be the first of a lot of defeats this season.
If you can lose at home to Palace, you're certainly capable of losing a lot more.
I hope you're right @Classical Mechanic but basic things were going wrong the other day, awful defending is commonplace for us and there were a few occasions where certain players just whacked the ball out of play for simple passes which is so unusual to see as a Man Utd fan. Shaw's "pass" down the left wing was completely unforgivable and all we ever seen to do is STOP and pass back when on the wing. Nobody seems to want to take anyone on anymore and it has to be a coaching issue.
Palace were dire. They could have scored 5 though if they WEREN'T dire. We need to look at getting Rashford more involved, and we basically need better fullbacks or for the ones we've got to actually try to run with the ball.
Palace were dire. They could have scored 5 though if they WEREN'T dire. We need to look at getting Rashford more involved, and we basically need better fullbacks or for the ones we've got to actually try to run with the ball.
Should have been more aswell. Diabolical performance from Manager, Coaches and players. Let's all take the fitness into account, ok, so what about the attitude and effort. It wasnt there from the players. They looked like they couldnt be arsed and that is on the manager. A blind man could see that Lindelof, TFM, McTom, James are not Manchester United quality. Why didnt Fred start ahead of McTom. Surely that has to be the end of Lindelof. Why didnt Greenwood start ahead of James, because he got caught sh*fting some tart from Iceland. Well bugger me, let's make a point and play fecking championship James
The fitness excuse is well-worn and has been trotted out ever since Ole's first sticky run at the wheel when our form tanked at the end of 2018/19.
He gets to play the 'lack of fitness' card way too much.
He gets to play the 'lack of fitness' card way too much.
It’s just not true regarding the Europa. We have 26 shots to Copenhagen’s 9 in the QF and 20 to Sevilla’s 9 in the SF. We were deserved losers yesterday. Insipid.
Why is it irrelevant? How often have we seen performances like this? A lack of intensity and guts seems to characterise this team like some sort of cancer we can't get rid of.
Belief, work rate, intensity, fitness, aggression. All of it was missing yesterday. Ironically, all things Ole mentions about not costing anything. But yet, the problem is needing players, lack of pre season etc etc.
Yes, recruitment is clearly an issue. But it's not the only issue here. It's shambolic that we should start the season having all of these questions about recruitment. It's like a constant bad stain on the club, and the blame must lie with Woodward being terrible at his job for that.
But that doesn't absolve Ole of fielding a team that seemed incapable of competing with Crystal Palace.
Belief, work rate, intensity, fitness, aggression. All of it was missing yesterday. Ironically, all things Ole mentions about not costing anything. But yet, the problem is needing players, lack of pre season etc etc.
Yes, recruitment is clearly an issue. But it's not the only issue here. It's shambolic that we should start the season having all of these questions about recruitment. It's like a constant bad stain on the club, and the blame must lie with Woodward being terrible at his job for that.
But that doesn't absolve Ole of fielding a team that seemed incapable of competing with Crystal Palace.
Brighton away and Spurs at home, both had big wins today.
I'm seriously worried we could lose the first three games. Hugely important we put in a big shift against Brighton and get a result.
I'm seriously worried we could lose the first three games. Hugely important we put in a big shift against Brighton and get a result.
Or put it this way -
Playing the 2nd or 3rd best team in the league based on being away to the top 6.
Playing that team with 5/6 less preperation games.
Playing that team after only one week with the squad, when theyve already played a prem game a week before.
Conceeding a stupid goal early therefore changing the dynamic of the game instantly.
Conceeding early playing arguably one of the best defensive coaches.
It's not really that hard to see why we can't draw too much from this game or why it's not as dramatic as youre making it out to be.
It's disappointing and we should be better. We have to get match sharp ASAP. That's all.
We have some issues but yesterday was more on fitness than anything. I think we will play a lot better than that even with the current group. The unbeaten run at the end of the season was no fluke, but the problem with that form was that it needed a lot of factors to happen for that to be consistent.
1. It relied heavily on us using a similar xi every game as all the pieces were required to make it work. For example, without Shaw there at the end of the season, we looked a worse side. Same with Matic, AWB and Greenwood. We need players that can replicate the roles of that xi. Thankfully VDB has brought one in midfield.
2. It relied on the form of our attackers who have not always shown consistency and are young. We do not have creative options from the flank besides Greenwood and Rashford, adding someone else aka Sancho, would help us always have a threat from there.
3. AWB and Maguire have been covering for Lindelof. Our defence being more secure would help us be more consistent.
1. It relied heavily on us using a similar xi every game as all the pieces were required to make it work. For example, without Shaw there at the end of the season, we looked a worse side. Same with Matic, AWB and Greenwood. We need players that can replicate the roles of that xi. Thankfully VDB has brought one in midfield.
2. It relied on the form of our attackers who have not always shown consistency and are young. We do not have creative options from the flank besides Greenwood and Rashford, adding someone else aka Sancho, would help us always have a threat from there.
3. AWB and Maguire have been covering for Lindelof. Our defence being more secure would help us be more consistent.
League cup was irrelevant then FA cup was irrelevant then Europa league was irrelevant then winning (minor) trophies were irrelevant and now PL game is irrelevant. We are becoming short of options. I guess next CL will be irrelevant because we are not good to win it.
I don't usually say this but fecking delete this thread. If we miss out on top 4 by 1-3 points, the OP should get his very own clown award.
Prime example of how expectations have been lowered. We're not supporting Leeds over here.
Like seriously stop overrating Palace. You're talking as if we were playing prime Barcelona. They finished 14th last season.
They even had an injury crisis before our match, hell :
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/12696643/man-utd-boost-palace-injury-crisis/
So we're now not expected to even manage a draw with Crystal Palace on our own pitch because we weren't very fit. This is really a new low in terms of excuses here.
Instead of lame excuses, we need to admit the loss was an absolute disgrace on every level and have a hard look in the mirror if we're planning any sort of improvement.
I can't agree with this type of logic.
Every season a team loses or draws a game they should have won, and likewise will get a lucky win or 2 on the way.
One game, standalone, is irrelevant, especially the first game of the season.
If we go 15-2-2 at home and something like 12-5-2 away we are looking at a massive improvement season on season, and I think it's possible with our strongest XI available.
That would be 88pts and in a lot of seasons good enough to win it.
I wonder how long there are going to be excuses spouted about for future dismal displays.
We should know more when we play Brighton.
I still think we are battling with Arsenal, Spur, Leicester and even Everton for 4th place. Never loss faith.
We were shit, but given the fact that we had zero preparation it's slightly excusable.
That said, we lucked out finishing third last season.
With zero investment we may aswell write off this season. I'm not sure what the board want to achieve this year, if they're not investing it's certainly not progress.
Sack Ole around March and start again I guess.
That said, we lucked out finishing third last season.
With zero investment we may aswell write off this season. I'm not sure what the board want to achieve this year, if they're not investing it's certainly not progress.
Sack Ole around March and start again I guess.
It’s not irrelevant we were shit. Just more excuses. We constantly come up with all kinds of excuses for Ole, never his fault.
do you want them to happen?
I am not sure Ole is the greatest, but you all have such short memories it's unbelievable. Please remember his performance against the top EPL teams when you all bash him for losing to Palace with no preseason and an extended weird Covid season.
I do remember, and never liked, always playing like the ‘smaller team’ counter attacking to win even at home, I havent got a shot memory.
You obviously have not watched any pre-season games. MU got beaten during Asia tour, simply when you are at 50% and your opponents are in the middle of season. They may not have as much talent, but being able to play a full 90min, and beat you on strength every single time.