Best to write yesterday’s game off as irrelevant

Losing two seasons in a row at home to Palace is 100% an indicator of where this team is.

A lot of us said we needed to improve by 10-15 points on what we did last season. This was a chance to do it and hit the ground running. Another opportunity wasted by this team.

But beating Chelsea home and away and City home and away isn't an indicator?
 
Its not irrelavent. The same thing happened start of 18/19 season after we came second. Club refused to invest to kick on and go for the title and that fecked the squad. I think we got turned over by Brighton first game

I'm trying to show you that Crystal Palace's away record or overall record against the big sides isn't as impressive as you claim. Like I mentioned in my original reply to you, Palace have only won two matches against the top 8 sides in the last 13 months. Both of them coming against us at Old Trafford. And Hodgson doesn't have the best away record against the top 6 either, like you claimed. Nuno for example has bettered him in only two years for example, like I mentioned in my previous reply. Get your facts straight.

I agree that Covid has clearly disrupted football and it has disrupted some clubs more than others. Our last season was longer because of the Europa League but our coaching staff has known for a long time when the season would start and what the fixture schedule looked like. In my opinion we've had more than enough time to plan and prepare against Palace despite the Covid disruption. Not only did we lose, but we played badly. What we can learn from yesterday is that our coaching staff and players simply haven't prepared themselves well enough for this season. After yesterday's performance I'm afraid we're playing catch up already.

Last season Wolves went out in the quarter finals of the Europa League, effectively ending their season only about 5 days before ours. But despite that they beat Sheffield United fairly comfortably last weekend. And Sheffield had the benefit of a longer pre-season, just like Crystal Palace. Now how did Wolves manage that win despite similar circumstances to United I wonder? My guess is that they were simply better prepared.

Wolves didn’t have a pre-season you are correct but they played a side that were on their first competitive game of the season and not their third. They did well to beat them but would have been a lot harder for them if Sheff United were on their third competitive game and were at full fitness. SU were well in that game though, they missed their chances at key moments. Palace took theirs unfortunately and had the rub of the green with VAR.

My point is that we simply don’t know if we’ve bodged the fitness because it’s the opposite of a short term dynamic. The planning has to be for 38 games, not 1. The collective shitting of the bed on here after one game has been bizarre and pathetic.

Im not advocating for Ole here, or saying that we’ve got the fitness right or that we don’t need reinforcements (we do). Only that this one game tells us next to nothing and that the Hysteria is absurd.

I will concede that you are right on Palace‘s record. Sky highlighted that it was comparatively good one during the match last night so that’s why it was in my head.

I'm writing off all our seasons until the Glazers or Woodward are gone.

There really isn't any hope left. The club is dead, living off past glories.

:lol:
 
Best to write our season off as irrelevant if we dont improve our starting XI. We have made the lease number of signing out of all clubs in the Premier league. Unforgivable
 
Ah yes must be that dastardly fitness issue again. Every time we lose a game it's just fitness lads nothing to see here, might as well make it 3 seasons in a row people trawl that one out.

We've lost match fitness very fecking quickly haven't we considering the turn around in between our last and first game.
 
It’s the same for everyone. No excuses. If you start a game with Championship level players like TFM, McTominay & James, what do you expect to happen?
 
No. Just no. Palace at home should not be a loss.

You seem to be living in a world where the end result of a game depends highly on the names of the teams involved. Believe it or not our level is closer to Palace rather than to Liverpool and City. All teams around us are reinforcing their ranks and we're not, thus results such as the one yesterday will occur more often than not.
 
Our back 5 was/is pathetic. That concerns me.

The lack of confidence slowly crept to the forward line and it looks like it's here to stay.

The only positive is we technically scored a goal from open play.
 
I think Palace having played 7 games vs us playing 1 friendly is a difference even if we don't like the result. First touch, up to speed with the game and match fitness is a legitimate difference-maker.

That being said our concentration and effort generally seemed lacking rather than a physical issue.
 
You seem to be living in a world where the end result of a game depends highly on the names of the teams involved. Believe it or not our level is closer to Palace rather than to Liverpool and City. All teams around us are reinforcing their ranks and we're not, thus results such as the one yesterday will occur more often than not.

Absolutely. Yesterday didn't even surprise or anger me. I came to accept where we're at a long time ago. The team and Ole, unfortunately, are nowhere near good enough collectively. The best thing I could say about us is we have players that can produce enough sporadic moments between them, across the season, to keep us in and around top 6. That's nothing to write home about.
 
Even though they have one of the best records against top 6 away from home?

CP is never easy.

Ok. Let's consider every game against them at OT every season as an automatic loss then.

The amount of denial and excuses people are bringing for such loss to make it look better than what it is, is on RAWK level.

Losing to CP is bad enough. Losing to them at Old Trafford is crap. Losing to them at Old Trafford by 3 goals is a disgrace.
 
6 points behind Liverpool. I wonder if that'll be lower at any point this season, even with that game in hand.
 
Explain how the fitness levels of a team that had a pre-season and two competitive games is the same as a team that had no pre-season and no competitive games?

We saw that exact performance many times last season. Even in the QF and SF of the Europa League, after having a good break during lockdown followed by a number of games to get back up to speed.
 
You seem to be living in a world where the end result of a game depends highly on the names of the teams involved. Believe it or not our level is closer to Palace rather than to Liverpool and City. All teams around us are reinforcing their ranks and we're not, thus results such as the one yesterday will occur more often than not.

Yes, the fear has to be that that will just be the first of a lot of defeats this season.
If you can lose at home to Palace, you're certainly capable of losing a lot more.
 
I hope you're right @Classical Mechanic but basic things were going wrong the other day, awful defending is commonplace for us and there were a few occasions where certain players just whacked the ball out of play for simple passes which is so unusual to see as a Man Utd fan. Shaw's "pass" down the left wing was completely unforgivable and all we ever seen to do is STOP and pass back when on the wing. Nobody seems to want to take anyone on anymore and it has to be a coaching issue.

Palace were dire. They could have scored 5 though if they WEREN'T dire. We need to look at getting Rashford more involved, and we basically need better fullbacks or for the ones we've got to actually try to run with the ball.
 
Ok. Let's consider every game against them at OT every season as an automatic loss then.

The amount of denial and excuses people are bringing for such loss to make it look better than what it is, is on RAWK level.

Losing to CP is bad enough. Losing to them at Old Trafford is crap. Losing by 3 goals is a disgrace.
Should have been more aswell. Diabolical performance from Manager, Coaches and players. Let's all take the fitness into account, ok, so what about the attitude and effort. It wasnt there from the players. They looked like they couldnt be arsed and that is on the manager. A blind man could see that Lindelof, TFM, McTom, James are not Manchester United quality. Why didnt Fred start ahead of McTom. Surely that has to be the end of Lindelof. Why didnt Greenwood start ahead of James, because he got caught sh*fting some tart from Iceland. Well bugger me, let's make a point and play fecking championship James
 
The fitness excuse is well-worn and has been trotted out ever since Ole's first sticky run at the wheel when our form tanked at the end of 2018/19.

He gets to play the 'lack of fitness' card way too much.
 
We saw that exact performance many times last season. Even in the QF and SF of the Europa League, after having a good break during lockdown followed by a number of games to get back up to speed.

It’s just not true regarding the Europa. We have 26 shots to Copenhagen’s 9 in the QF and 20 to Sevilla’s 9 in the SF. We were deserved losers yesterday. Insipid.
 
Why is it irrelevant? How often have we seen performances like this? A lack of intensity and guts seems to characterise this team like some sort of cancer we can't get rid of.

Belief, work rate, intensity, fitness, aggression. All of it was missing yesterday. Ironically, all things Ole mentions about not costing anything. But yet, the problem is needing players, lack of pre season etc etc.

Yes, recruitment is clearly an issue. But it's not the only issue here. It's shambolic that we should start the season having all of these questions about recruitment. It's like a constant bad stain on the club, and the blame must lie with Woodward being terrible at his job for that.

But that doesn't absolve Ole of fielding a team that seemed incapable of competing with Crystal Palace.
 
Brighton away and Spurs at home, both had big wins today.

I'm seriously worried we could lose the first three games. Hugely important we put in a big shift against Brighton and get a result.
 
Ok. Let's consider every game against them at OT every season as an automatic loss then.

The amount of denial and excuses people are bringing for such loss to make it look better than what it is, is on RAWK level.

Losing to CP is bad enough. Losing to them at Old Trafford is crap. Losing to them at Old Trafford by 3 goals is a disgrace.

Or put it this way -

Playing the 2nd or 3rd best team in the league based on being away to the top 6.

Playing that team with 5/6 less preperation games.

Playing that team after only one week with the squad, when theyve already played a prem game a week before.

Conceeding a stupid goal early therefore changing the dynamic of the game instantly.

Conceeding early playing arguably one of the best defensive coaches.

It's not really that hard to see why we can't draw too much from this game or why it's not as dramatic as youre making it out to be.

It's disappointing and we should be better. We have to get match sharp ASAP. That's all.
 
We have some issues but yesterday was more on fitness than anything. I think we will play a lot better than that even with the current group. The unbeaten run at the end of the season was no fluke, but the problem with that form was that it needed a lot of factors to happen for that to be consistent.

1. It relied heavily on us using a similar xi every game as all the pieces were required to make it work. For example, without Shaw there at the end of the season, we looked a worse side. Same with Matic, AWB and Greenwood. We need players that can replicate the roles of that xi. Thankfully VDB has brought one in midfield.

2. It relied on the form of our attackers who have not always shown consistency and are young. We do not have creative options from the flank besides Greenwood and Rashford, adding someone else aka Sancho, would help us always have a threat from there.

3. AWB and Maguire have been covering for Lindelof. Our defence being more secure would help us be more consistent.
 
League cup was irrelevant then FA cup was irrelevant then Europa league was irrelevant then winning (minor) trophies were irrelevant and now PL game is irrelevant. We are becoming short of options. I guess next CL will be irrelevant because we are not good to win it.
 
I don't usually say this but fecking delete this thread. If we miss out on top 4 by 1-3 points, the OP should get his very own clown award.

You seem to be living in a world where the end result of a game depends highly on the names of the teams involved. Believe it or not our level is closer to Palace rather than to Liverpool and City. All teams around us are reinforcing their ranks and we're not, thus results such as the one yesterday will occur more often than not.

Prime example of how expectations have been lowered. We're not supporting Leeds over here.
 
Or put it this way -

Playing the 2nd or 3rd best team in the league based on being away to the top 6.

Playing that team with 5/6 less preperation games.

Playing that team after only one week with the squad, when theyve already played a prem game a week before.

Conceeding a stupid goal early therefore changing the dynamic of the game instantly.

Conceeding early playing arguably one of the best defensive coaches.

It's not really that hard to see why we can't draw too much from this game or why it's not as dramatic as youre making it out to be.

It's disappointing and we should be better. We have to get match sharp ASAP. That's all.

Like seriously stop overrating Palace. You're talking as if we were playing prime Barcelona. They finished 14th last season.

They even had an injury crisis before our match, hell :

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/12696643/man-utd-boost-palace-injury-crisis/

So we're now not expected to even manage a draw with Crystal Palace on our own pitch because we weren't very fit. This is really a new low in terms of excuses here.

Instead of lame excuses, we need to admit the loss was an absolute disgrace on every level and have a hard look in the mirror if we're planning any sort of improvement.
 
I don't usually say this but fecking delete this thread. If we miss out on top 4 by 1-3 points, the OP should get his very own clown award.



Prime example of how expectations have been lowered. We're not supporting Leeds over here.

I can't agree with this type of logic.
Every season a team loses or draws a game they should have won, and likewise will get a lucky win or 2 on the way.

One game, standalone, is irrelevant, especially the first game of the season.

If we go 15-2-2 at home and something like 12-5-2 away we are looking at a massive improvement season on season, and I think it's possible with our strongest XI available.
That would be 88pts and in a lot of seasons good enough to win it.
 
League cup was irrelevant then FA cup was irrelevant then Europa league was irrelevant then winning (minor) trophies were irrelevant and now PL game is irrelevant. We are becoming short of options. I guess next CL will be irrelevant because we are not good to win it.
:lol:
 
I still think we are battling with Arsenal, Spur, Leicester and even Everton for 4th place. Never loss faith.
 
We were shit, but given the fact that we had zero preparation it's slightly excusable.

That said, we lucked out finishing third last season.

With zero investment we may aswell write off this season. I'm not sure what the board want to achieve this year, if they're not investing it's certainly not progress.

Sack Ole around March and start again I guess.
 
It’s not irrelevant we were shit. Just more excuses. We constantly come up with all kinds of excuses for Ole, never his fault.

I am not sure Ole is the greatest, but you all have such short memories it's unbelievable. Please remember his performance against the top EPL teams when you all bash him for losing to Palace with no preseason and an extended weird Covid season.
 
I am not sure Ole is the greatest, but you all have such short memories it's unbelievable. Please remember his performance against the top EPL teams when you all bash him for losing to Palace with no preseason and an extended weird Covid season.
I do remember, and never liked, always playing like the ‘smaller team’ counter attacking to win even at home, I havent got a shot memory.
 
Lack of fitness is not an excuse for Man United to be slapped by Crystal Palace, having precisely 1 good chance (Greenwood) aside from the goal in the process.

Give this Palace team to an unfit Man City and they’d still hammer them. In fact, I think City will beat Wolves tomorrow, a far better team than Palace.

No excuses. We were shit and players like Lindelof, TFM and James all have to go.

You obviously have not watched any pre-season games. MU got beaten during Asia tour, simply when you are at 50% and your opponents are in the middle of season. They may not have as much talent, but being able to play a full 90min, and beat you on strength every single time.