Biggest managerial downgrades

[Samid]

Norway when it comes to national teams. Twice. First Drillo to Semb. We went from being 2nd on the FIFA ranking for a brief period and regularly beating big teams under Drillo to hiring a loser without any managerial credentials. We nosedived spectacularly from that point onwards. For some reason Semb still has large influence in the FA and he's a big reason why we haven't qualified for a single tournament 20 years.

And then Drillo to Høgmo. Drillo came back a decade later to steady the ship. He did a decent job and set a nice foundation only for Høgmo (yet another nostradamus who thought his brain was the best thing since sliced bread) to head straight towards the iceberg.

We actually have an excellent manager (Lagerbäck) now. Our player pool is better than ever. Watch us crash and burn when he retires next year and we somehow hire yet another nobody.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I have no problems with Lemerre, I used him as the standard in the comparison, the starting point to measure the downgrade which started with Santini, although I agree that while Lemerre did well, this was a team that didn't need much coaching prowess to win at that point.

And yeah, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek myself, there's countless more valid reasons why Domenech was a train wreck. I think he's the only coach I've ever felt actual animosity towards in my entire life, felt like he hijacked the national team and no matter how bad it got, he was still in charge.

It was so strange, as the years went by, it's like he was disconnecting from reality more and more. And he was pretty unhinged to begin with...

The proposal to Estelle Denis on live TV after being knocked out was pure comedy gold.

 

[Skills]

David Brent to Neil Godwin's another shocker.

Michael Scott to Andy Bernard ruined the TV show

 

[Dancfc]

He did alright that season and actually at Portsmouth when they got to FA cup final and might've won if Boateng had scored the penalty at 0-0 (IIRC they pretty matched Chelsea in that game). West Ham got a little carried away though and he was awful, relegating a reasonably decent squad especially as mid season they signed likes of Demba Ba and Robbie Keane.

Anyway though it's not always just letting the team do what they want as Scolari reign was pretty bad and Chelsea were looking good to finish 6th or 7th when he was sacked.

I disagree that final was even, we hit the woodwork about five times in the first half.

At Pompey he got the benefit of the doubt because of the problems there but at West Ham with no (serious) internal issues to hide behind or (many) top players and coaches to aid him his lack of managerial quality was there for all to see, the fact Scott Parker was a strong contender for every player of the year award (winning the football writers) and they still finished bottom says it all, not to mention as you say Demba Ba for half of it.

Scolari all things considered was the worst manager I've seen at the club by far and that includes pre mid 90's, the fact we didn't fall out of top four under his control shows just how good the squad we had back then was, we would have for sure had a Brazil/Germany esque humiliation handed out to us if he took over a mentally weaker squad, probably more than once. He had literally one tactic which was to send the fullbacks forward to create wide overloads, as soon as Rafa set the blueprint to stop us other managers followed his lead and he not only had no plan B, he didn't even attempt to find one.

 

[.mica]

Hitzfeld to Nevio Scala at Dortmund.
From CL winners and champions in the league to 10. place. Was sacked immideately after that season.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Didn't Grant do better than Mourinho was doing when he was sacked? He also made a CL final and came close in the league. It wasn't that big a drop off really.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It is pretty much widely accepted (and I think even Kenyon/Gourley said it) that the core Chelsea players (Cech, Terry, Lampard, Ballack and Drogba) took it on themselves with Grant as a passenger/first team coach in name only.

Regardless it worked pretty well and he was their manager.

 

[ReddBalls]

Norway when it comes to national teams. Twice. First Drillo to Semb. We went from being 2nd on the FIFA ranking for a brief period and regularly beating big teams under Drillo to hiring a loser without any managerial credentials. We nosedived spectacularly from that point onwards. For some reason Semb still has large influence in the FA and he's a big reason why we haven't qualified for a single tournament 20 years.

And then Drillo to Høgmo. Drillo came back a decade later to steady the ship. He did a decent job and set a nice foundation only for Høgmo (yet another nostradamus who thought his brain was the best thing since sliced bread) to head straight towards the iceberg.

We actually have an excellent manager (Lagerbäck) now. Our player pool is better than ever. Watch us crash and burn when he retires next year and we somehow hire yet another nobody.

fecking Semb.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Hitzfeld to Nevio Scala at Dortmund.
From CL winners and champions in the league to 10. place. Was sacked immideately after that season.

Now that's a downgrade

 

[tenpoless]

Rodgers to Klopp.

 

[Karlos PFC]

From Jose to Ole.

I know Mourinho's last season was shit, but still massive downgrade.

At least Mourinho as Van Gaal before him had a plan and a tactic for playing, Ole is just counting on individual quality.

 

[padzilla]

Fergie to Moyes and Dalglish to Souness are two that stand out for me. Also from George Graham who won league titles and multiple trophies with Arsenal to Bruce Rioch deserves a mention.

 

[Dancfc]

Fergie to Moyes and Dalglish to Souness are two that stand out for me. Also from George Graham who won league titles and multiple trophies with Arsenal to Bruce Rioch deserves a mention.

Speaking of which Sir Bobby to Souness must be up there too.

 

[padzilla]

Speaking of which Sir Bobby to Souness must be up there too.

Kevin Keegan to Joe Kinnear is another one.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

From Jose to Ole.

I know Mourinho's last season was shit, but still massive downgrade.

At least Mourinho as Van Gaal before him had a plan and a tactic for playing, Ole is just counting on individual quality.

This is totally untrue. If anything, Mourinho of these past few years has shown more tactical limitations.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Andries Jonker was headcoach for a few games after they fired Van Gaal. Andries Jonker is the worst trainer in history probably.

 

[Dancfc]

Kevin Keegan to Joe Kinnear is another one.

Looking at his record Kinnear didn't do too badly. W4 D8 L6, obviously nothing spectacular but scaled for a full season that would be mid 40's points and comfortable safety.

Looking purely at it in results, it was Hughton's two interim spells (W1 D2 L7) and Shearer's 8 games (W1 D2 L5) that fecked them.

I checked it because I swear back at the time I thought Kinnear wasn't doing too badly so I had a proper look at things to check I wasn't going mad.

 

[FootballHQ]

Now that's a downgrade

Wasn't Scala really good at Parma?

I remember Dortmund a few years back signing up that coach who'd been sacked by Koln with them rock bottom although can't remember if he replaced Tuchel or Bosz

 

[ReddBalls]

Andries Jonker was headcoach for a few games after they fired Van Gaal. Andries Jonker is the worst trainer in history probably.

You haven´t heard of John Carver I presume?

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

From Gary Rowett to Gianfranco Zola at Birmingham City. At the time of Rowett's sacking Birmingham were 7th and outside the playoffs by goal difference. Under Zola, in the space of four months, Birmingham won 2 out of 24 games and 3 points above the relegation zone.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

Wasn't Scala really good at Parma?

I remember Dortmund a few years back signing up that coach who'd been sacked by Koln with them rock bottom although can't remember if he replaced Tuchel or Bosz

Peter Stöger replaced Bosz

 

[FootballHQ]

Big Sam to Steve Kean. Pretty sure they were comfortable under Big Sam. Relegated with Steve Kean who went to manage in Malaysia afterwards

Same very nearly happened at Bolton. Sacked Big Sam and gave Sammy Lee the job who was totally out of his depth as manager, signed awful players like Gerard Cid (one of worst CBs I've ever seen in premier league) and won two games in 6 months I think.

 

[Lay]

Same very nearly happened at Bolton. Sacked Big Sam and gave Sammy Lee the job who was totally out of his depth as manager, signed awful players like Gerard Cid (one of worst CBs I've ever seen in premier league) and won two games in 6 months I think.

Didn't know who the feck he was but a quick google search suggests he retired at 27 blaming lack of passion for football.

 

[Bazi]

Andries Jonker was headcoach for a few games after they fired Van Gaal. Andries Jonker is the worst trainer in history probably.

Funnily he ended the season relatively strong for us and there was even some talk that he could get an extension although I believe he was thankfully never in serious contention.

At Bayern nothings trumps going from Ottmar Hitzfeld (two time UCL winner) to Jürgen Klinsmann. That was the absolute worst horror show I have ever witnessed in 25 years of following this club. Worse than Rehhagel.

 

[FootballHQ]

Didn't know who the feck he was but a quick google search suggests he retired at 27 blaming lack of passion for football.

Sticks in my mind as he was hopeless in the games Bolton played early on in 2007-08 (also chuckled at his surname). Got done by Oba Martins in first game of 07-08 season and never recovered. Was actually a big Sam signing. One of the worst CBs I've seen in premier league anyway so would make an all time worst premier league 11.

Bolton always had tough CBs in that era (Ben Haim, Jaidi, Meite etc) and were hard to score against so he really stuck out as a mediocre option when played the next season.

https://bolton.vitalfootball.co.uk/gerald-cid-injury-was-genuine/

 

[Mettaur]

Ferguson to Moyes (Man Utd)
Benitez to Hodgson (Liverpool)
Jardim to Henry (Monaco)
??? to Neville (Valencia)

 

[Speedy30]

Harry Redknapp to AVB was pretty disastrous.

 

[Grinner]

Fergie to Moyes and Dalglish to Souness are two that stand out for me. Also from George Graham who won league titles and multiple trophies with Arsenal to Bruce Rioch deserves a mention.

Rioch gave us Bergkamp so will always be revered for that but his record wasn't actually that bad.

 

[padzilla]

Looking at his record Kinnear didn't do too badly. W4 D8 L6, obviously nothing spectacular but scaled for a full season that would be mid 40's points and comfortable safety.

Looking purely at it in results, it was Hughton's two interim spells (W1 D2 L7) and Shearer's 8 games (W1 D2 L5) that fecked them.

I checked it because I swear back at the time I thought Kinnear wasn't doing too badly so I had a proper look at things to check I wasn't going mad.

Yeah totally agree with his performances not being so bad but in terms of a coach whose stature would please the fans, Newcastle would surely take Keegan over Kinnear any day.

 

[do.ob]

Wasn't Scala really good at Parma?

I remember Dortmund a few years back signing up that coach who'd been sacked by Koln with them rock bottom although can't remember if he replaced Tuchel or Bosz

I think that's a bit harsh on Stöger. He took over Cologne in the second division and immediately got them promoted. Then he gradually got them into the EL over three seasons. Had his last season not gone that badly he would probably be a hero there. He also won the title in Austria (over Salzburg) before he moved to Germany. And he was only hired as a placeholder, either for Nagelsmann in the winter break or Favre in the summer.

I don't think that compares to e.g. going from SAF to giving Moyes a six year contract or from sacking Hitzfeld and turning down Klopp in favour of Klinsmann.

 

[B20]

Ferguson to moyes, Benitez to Hodgson and Dalglish to souness are the ones that stick out to me.

 

[Eendracht maakt macht]

Andries Jonker was headcoach for a few games after they fired Van Gaal. Andries Jonker is the worst trainer in history probably.

Andries Jonker. How on earth people take him seriously, let alone appoint him to several good jobs is beyond me. The epitome of smugness and arrogance while doing absolutely nothing to deserve to look only the slightest bit of arrogant.

 

[romufc]

Ole is just counting on individual quality.

So i guess playing against Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Spurs and getting results was all based on individual quality rather than tactics?

Ole hasn't had the individual quality this season to challenge for anything with injuries.

 

[Lynty]

Eriksson to McClaren was a far bigger downgrade especially considering England couldn't even qualify for a major tournament in the era when last 4 of CL regularly had three English teams in and there was a decent core of English players in those teams.

Agreed

McClaren built a career from being an assistant coach during the 1999 treble, despite joining halfway through the campaign. He was the worst England manager I've ever seen, I've tried not to follow his career since then.

 

[Karlos PFC]

So i guess playing against Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Spurs and getting results was all based on individual quality rather than tactics?

Ole hasn't had the individual quality this season to challenge for anything with injuries.

Look you can support Ole as much as you want. Ole was one of my favourite players ever, but Ole the coach is miles behind any other premier league manager, including Mourinho who the caf thinks he's passed it.

Ole's tactics are fair simple full defensive and hit them on the break, ironically what Mourinho did and everyone in here hated, but now this is the United way.
Sit deep, send a long ball to the wings and a cross in the box. Basically 80's-90's football.

Ole can't challenge for anything because he isn't that good of a manager. The best football this year was after we got Bruno.

I get behind him because I love my team but let's say thing as they stand.

 

[Lynty]

Ole's tactics are fair simple...
Sit deep, send a long ball to the wings and a cross in the box. Basically 80's-90's football.

What?

Manchester United:

Type	Passes	Effect
Short Passes pg	458	87%
Long Balls pg	49	9%
Cross pg	18	3%

Man City:

Type	Passes	Effect
Short Passes pg	629	89%
Long Balls pg	51	7%
Cross pg	26	4%

Liverpool:

Type	Passes	Effect
Short Passes pg	562	86%
Long Balls pg	65	10%
Cross pg	24	4%

I think that's established your talking shit.

 

[Stadjer]

The winner of this topic has to be Fergie to Moyes. Every manager after (arguably?) the best manager of all time would be a downgrade. If the person following Ferguson is also a out of his depth David Moyes it seems like there is a very clear winner.

 

[Karlos PFC]

What?

Manchester United:

Type	Passes	Effect
Short Passes pg	458	87%
Long Balls pg	49	9%
Cross pg	18	3%

Man City:

Type	Passes	Effect
Short Passes pg	629	89%
Long Balls pg	51	7%
Cross pg	26	4%

Liverpool:

Type	Passes	Effect
Short Passes pg	562	86%
Long Balls pg	65	10%
Cross pg	24	4%

I think that's established your talking shit.

There's a 1% missing from the United board.

Cheers mate, no hard feelings just a friendly talk

 

[RedRob]

There's a 1% missing from the United board.

Cheers mate, no hard feelings just a friendly talk

Rounding errors, mate. Say it was 87.3% short passes, 9.3% long passes and 3.4% crosses. That adds to 100%, but if you round each figure to an integer, they sum to 99%.

Fun with maths.

 

[Lynty]

There's a 1% missing from the United board.

Cheers mate, no hard feelings just a friendly talk

I cut off the 'Through Balls' numbers as they didn't have much bearing on the argument. Stats are available on Who Scored.

I just don't agree with your assessment, sorry if my reply came across aggressive. But suppose this is a discussion for another thread.